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1
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by mjdinkins on Today at 05:42:03 PM »
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.

I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.

Let's look at the '17 class alone:

Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington

Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff

You can be sick and tired of it all you want. It's the truth. If it wasn't, then where are all of the 5 stars signing with us? Do you think if SJU does not win and does not make the NCAA that they will have any real chance with 5 stars? No way. They should be focusing much of their resources on attainable prospects (as well as the occasional 4/5 star) and under the radar guys until they start winning more. This last part is where good scouting comes into play.

Not to mention Washington had already won under Romar and been to the NCAA tourney in 3 consecutive seasons from '09-'11. That is a track record regardless if 4 out of his last 5 years he was barely above .500. Mullin has no track record of winning or making the NCAA's yet.

What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?

Although, Johnson has a winning record (37-30), he has the same amount of post season wins as Mullin (Johnson has lost two consecutive years in the first round of the NIT). 

As, you stated, he was able to land a clear 5-star and a borderline 5-star player in one class alone.
2
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by Foad on Today at 05:32:54 PM »
this staff has gotta go.

Mike Rice is available, he'd be my choice. #thetruth
3
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by Foad on Today at 05:28:54 PM »
I thinking the lack of success so far is definitely hurting recruiting. I would be hard pressed to see how you anyone could think otherwise.

Call me hard pressed. How many more wins were you expecting considering the roster that they started with. Me, they won more games than I figured they would.
4
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by goredmen on Today at 05:27:18 PM »
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.

I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.

Let's look at the '17 class alone:

Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington

Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff

You can be sick and tired of it all you want. It's the truth. If it wasn't, then where are all of the 5 stars signing with us? Do you think if SJU does not win and does not make the NCAA that they will have any real chance with 5 stars? No way. They should be focusing much of their resources on attainable prospects (as well as the occasional 4/5 star) and under the radar guys until they start winning more. This last part is where good scouting comes into play.

Not to mention Washington had already won under Romar and been to the NCAA tourney in 3 consecutive seasons from '09-'11. That is a track record regardless if 4 out of his last 5 years he was barely above .500. Mullin has no track record of winning or making the NCAA's yet.

What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?
5
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by Johnny23 on Today at 05:24:02 PM »
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.

I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.

Let's look at the '17 class alone:

Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington

Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff

You can be sick and tired of it all you want. It's the truth. If it wasn't, then where are all of the 5 stars signing with us? Do you think if SJU does not win and does not make the NCAA that they will have any real chance with 5 stars? No way. They should be focusing much of their resources on attainable prospects (as well as the occasional 4/5 star) and under the radar guys until they start winning more. This last part is where good scouting comes into play.

Not to mention Washington had already won under Romar and been to the NCAA tourney in 3 consecutive seasons from '09-'11. That is a track record regardless if 4 out of his last 5 years he was barely above .500. Mullin has no track record of winning or making the NCAA's yet.
6
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by mjdinkins on Today at 05:09:19 PM »
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.

I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.

Let's look at the '17 class alone:

Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington

Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff

I believe Ben Simmons' dad best friend was on LSU's staff and Mitchell Robinson's Godfather (Shammond Williams) was on Western Kentucky's staff.

For the most part, I agree with you, in reference to the "no 5 or 4 star players" won't come here 'til we win.  In some cases, that may hold true, but a few, too many are playing that card a bit too often. 

Actually, we've always been able to nab top 75 players.  We only had a difficult time landing those types of kids when Norm Roberts was here, but otherwise, that particular crop of talent has never been too tough for us to land.
7
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by goredmen on Today at 04:56:37 PM »
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.

I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.

Let's look at the '17 class alone:

Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington

Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff
8
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by Johnny23 on Today at 04:35:54 PM »
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
9
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by RedStormNC on Today at 04:28:21 PM »
Is it time to flat out beg Lovett to stay next year (and get degree) and hope Ponds stays put too?
10
2018 Class / Re: Luther Muhammed-6-4 PG Hudson Catholic, NJ
« Last post by mjdinkins on Today at 04:26:08 PM »
3) While starry eyed we haven't been pursuing elite city talent that could add to our core (Isaiah Washington a big time slip, Hasahn French). I'm dumbfounded how we're not more involved with Andre Hyatt and Markquis Nowell)

I believed we missed out on French after receiving a verbal from Zach Brown.  Frankly, I hate that we missed out on French.

Quote
Meanwhile a successful season is teetering right in front of us, which now includes an even greater degree of pressure. Recruiting is a monster that needs constant attention. I understand Mullin's pursuit of Jordan Brown, but why wasn't he on Luther's doorstep like Huggins and Holtmann have been this past week?

The staff went to see Muhammad in his school last week, and has been to his home twice (once with the two or three staff members and the other from Matt A.)  within the past couple of weeks.  What else do you want 'em to do outside of sleeping on his bedroom floor?

Overall, I do believe the staff (outside of Matt) was a bit too lukewarm, per se'.
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