Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring

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TONYD3

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #100 on: April 01, 2017, 10:30:02 AM »
I started this Amar argument. I never said he was good. I said he was a useful In march. He played the role of a back up foward well. He set screens, played ok defense, and rebounded. If he focused on that he could certainly contribute next year at St. John's.  I do not think RF could do any those things next year for us. Last years team needed a player who could contribute right away. Not a 2 year project. As marallic suggested maybe my thoughts are short sided but RF did t show that he could do anything well (including shooting). Contribute does not mean scoring 20 points per game. Contribute means keeping Amar on the bench, where he belonged.

I agree with you to the extent that I hope AA comes back: he's a senior and will likely give us more than any underclass replacement. That said, since the new year he had 24 rebounds (12 of those came in two games) and 32 personal fouls in 19 games. So he neither rebounded nor played defense, to the extent that playing defense does not comprise clubbing the other player and sending the other team to the line. Still, having suffered through three years of his incompetence I would welcome the opportunity to see if he took a step forward as a senior, as many other players have. But since you do not believe players get better through practice and repetition and maturity I don't understand why you would think the same thing.

In gross terms the correct question is not whether Alibeogwitz is better than Freudenberg next year. Because neither will make a difference and if we need them to we're intercoursed. The correct question is whether given the choice between the two of them one or the other would make more of a difference in the long term, in terms of moving the program forward. The obvious answer to that question is Fruedbergh. Because he's leagues better as a freshman than Alibegowitz.
Players get better practing properley. Amar for 3 plus seasons has considered himself a stretch 4 with 3 point range. I imagine he has shot countless jump shots With that in mind. We need a back up foward. If he prepares yhis off season by himself and with a coach I believe he could be productive. If he continues to do what he has done the past 3 years he will not only be  worthless he will be a detriment to the team.
I also assume our team practices defense and tries to prepare our players to rebound and occasionally stop the other team. Whatever they are doing isn't working. I believe if they continue to do the same things even if they increase the intensity we will still have the worst defense in the country . Something needs to change.

Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 10:56:27 AM by TONYD3 »

Poison

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #101 on: April 01, 2017, 02:19:39 PM »
I started this Amar argument. I never said he was good. I said he was a useful In march. He played the role of a back up foward well. He set screens, played ok defense, and rebounded. If he focused on that he could certainly contribute next year at St. John's.  I do not think RF could do any those things next year for us. Last years team needed a player who could contribute right away. Not a 2 year project. As marallic suggested maybe my thoughts are short sided but RF did t show that he could do anything well (including shooting). Contribute does not mean scoring 20 points per game. Contribute means keeping Amar on the bench, where he belonged.

I agree with you to the extent that I hope AA comes back: he's a senior and will likely give us more than any underclass replacement. That said, since the new year he had 24 rebounds (12 of those came in two games) and 32 personal fouls in 19 games. So he neither rebounded nor played defense, to the extent that playing defense does not comprise clubbing the other player and sending the other team to the line. Still, having suffered through three years of his incompetence I would welcome the opportunity to see if he took a step forward as a senior, as many other players have. But since you do not believe players get better through practice and repetition and maturity I don't understand why you would think the same thing.

In gross terms the correct question is not whether Alibeogwitz is better than Freudenberg next year. Because neither will make a difference and if we need them to we're intercoursed. The correct question is whether given the choice between the two of them one or the other would make more of a difference in the long term, in terms of moving the program forward. The obvious answer to that question is Fruedbergh. Because he's leagues better as a freshman than Alibegowitz.
Players get better practing properley. Amar for 3 plus seasons has considered himself a stretch 4 with 3 point range. I imagine he has shot countless jump shots With that in mind. We need a back up foward. If he prepares yhis off season by himself and with a coach I believe he could be productive. If he continues to do what he has done the past 3 years he will not only be  worthless he will be a detriment to the team.
I also assume our team practices defense and tries to prepare our players to rebound and occasionally stop the other team. Whatever they are doing isn't working. I believe if they continue to do the same things even if they increase the intensity we will still have the worst defense in the country . Something needs to change.

Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.


Even in the games where he played well enough, he allowed wide open baskets. His problems are only from the neck up. If he bothered to box out, he could at least be serviceable. He doesn't. Can he still have a productive senior year for both himself and even the team? Maybe, but I've never seen any St.John's 4 year player contribute less so I'm skeptical to say the least. He has been in the program for 3 years, and he still doesn't know where he should be on the court. I think if he can be replaced by a quality grad transfer or a prospect with a motor that might be best now all things considered. Two coaches have taught him very little to date, so I don't think it's unfair to say that he's just not dialed in. He should be playing at a low level D1 school, or maybe even a D3 school.

However, if he does return, we should support him. He's still an amateur, and in a year or two will be a part of the working force like everyone else. However, what he should do is find the best college he can with the shittiest team, transfer, sit out a year, graduate and get a grad degree.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 04:39:03 PM by Poison »

Foad

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #102 on: April 01, 2017, 05:11:59 PM »
Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.

Against GT in two games AA had zero points and 4 rebounds. To the extent you think otherwise you're confused. That said, I agree he might contribute next year and even of he doesn't the continuity would be welcome. According to my math carry the one he'd be the only senior on the roster.

TONYD3

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #103 on: April 02, 2017, 02:15:09 PM »
Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.

Against GT in two games AA had zero points and 4 rebounds. To the extent you think otherwise you're confused. That said, I agree he might contribute next year and even of he doesn't the continuity would be welcome. According to my math carry the one he'd be the only senior on the roster.
Have to stop focusing so much on stats. We may have led the country in blocks. If not we were close. Still we were horribly defensively. Some on this board wanted to give Owens big east defensive player of the year, even though he isn't even a good defensive player. (I don't think he is a bad defensive player).
Joey delerosa may be the least skilled player we ever had. He played some productive minutes. He never accumulated stats.
If you think Amar can't even contribute as a back up foward, why would you want him back? In sports you continue positive things . If something doesn't work 3 years in a row it won't magically work the 4th.

Foad

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #104 on: April 02, 2017, 03:31:19 PM »
Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.

Against GT in two games AA had zero points and 4 rebounds. To the extent you think otherwise you're confused. That said, I agree he might contribute next year and even of he doesn't the continuity would be welcome. According to my math carry the one he'd be the only senior on the roster.
Have to stop focusing so much on stats. We may have led the country in blocks. If not we were close. Still we were horribly defensively. Some on this board wanted to give Owens big east defensive player of the year, even though he isn't even a good defensive player. (I don't think he is a bad defensive player).
Joey delerosa may be the least skilled player we ever had. He played some productive minutes. He never accumulated stats.
If you think Amar can't even contribute as a back up foward, why would you want him back? In sports you continue positive things . If something doesn't work 3 years in a row it won't magically work the 4th.

Given the choice between your recollection of the productive minutes Alibegoqth played versus GT and actual numbers that reflect his production - or more precisely his lack of production - I'll take the numbers. Because eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable.

Joey Delarosa of all people played 85 minutes in 33 games at St John's. He scored 9 points and had 16 rebounds. You might think that was productive, I do not.

I think Amar would be a fine 11th man, mostly because I don't think the 11th man matters. I think Freudenburcgh might be a fine sixth or seventh man in a couple of years, which is why I think your plan to keep AA over him is a sign of mental insanity. Short of a transmogrification like the one Dom Pointer underwent, or David Cain, nothing AA does next year is going to matter and if next year depends on whether AA is better than RF the whole thing is coitused and it doesn't matter anyway.

Poison

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #105 on: April 02, 2017, 05:58:19 PM »
Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.

Against GT in two games AA had zero points and 4 rebounds. To the extent you think otherwise you're confused. That said, I agree he might contribute next year and even of he doesn't the continuity would be welcome. According to my math carry the one he'd be the only senior on the roster.
Have to stop focusing so much on stats. We may have led the country in blocks. If not we were close. Still we were horribly defensively. Some on this board wanted to give Owens big east defensive player of the year, even though he isn't even a good defensive player. (I don't think he is a bad defensive player).
Joey delerosa may be the least skilled player we ever had. He played some productive minutes. He never accumulated stats.
If you think Amar can't even contribute as a back up foward, why would you want him back? In sports you continue positive things . If something doesn't work 3 years in a row it won't magically work the 4th.

Given the choice between your recollection of the productive minutes Alibegoqth played versus GT and actual numbers that reflect his production - or more precisely his lack of production - I'll take the numbers. Because eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable.

Joey Delarosa of all people played 85 minutes in 33 games at St John's. He scored 9 points and had 16 rebounds. You might think that was productive, I do not.

I think Amar would be a fine 11th man, mostly because I don't think the 11th man matters. I think Freudenburcgh might be a fine sixth or seventh man in a couple of years, which is why I think your plan to keep AA over him is a sign of mental insanity. Short of a transmogrification like the one Dom Pointer underwent, or David Cain, nothing AA does next year is going to matter and if next year depends on whether AA is better than RF the whole thing is coitused and it doesn't matter anyway.

I think the ceiling for Amar is probably Donald Emanuel, but even DE had skills that the team could count on. Not many, but some. Amar does nothing that we can count on him doing other fouling.

Poison

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #106 on: April 02, 2017, 06:03:42 PM »
Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.

Against GT in two games AA had zero points and 4 rebounds. To the extent you think otherwise you're confused. That said, I agree he might contribute next year and even of he doesn't the continuity would be welcome. According to my math carry the one he'd be the only senior on the roster.
Have to stop focusing so much on stats. We may have led the country in blocks. If not we were close. Still we were horribly defensively. Some on this board wanted to give Owens big east defensive player of the year, even though he isn't even a good defensive player. (I don't think he is a bad defensive player).
Joey delerosa may be the least skilled player we ever had. He played some productive minutes. He never accumulated stats.
If you think Amar can't even contribute as a back up foward, why would you want him back? In sports you continue positive things . If something doesn't work 3 years in a row it won't magically work the 4th.

I think Joey Delarosa helped in 2 games. So did Amar. Probably closer to 4 for Amar. We need big guys that know how to box out AND actually do it, too.

Foad

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #107 on: April 02, 2017, 07:24:37 PM »
Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.

Against GT in two games AA had zero points and 4 rebounds. To the extent you think otherwise you're confused. That said, I agree he might contribute next year and even of he doesn't the continuity would be welcome. According to my math carry the one he'd be the only senior on the roster.
Have to stop focusing so much on stats. We may have led the country in blocks. If not we were close. Still we were horribly defensively. Some on this board wanted to give Owens big east defensive player of the year, even though he isn't even a good defensive player. (I don't think he is a bad defensive player).
Joey delerosa may be the least skilled player we ever had. He played some productive minutes. He never accumulated stats.
If you think Amar can't even contribute as a back up foward, why would you want him back? In sports you continue positive things . If something doesn't work 3 years in a row it won't magically work the 4th.

Given the choice between your recollection of the productive minutes Alibegoqth played versus GT and actual numbers that reflect his production - or more precisely his lack of production - I'll take the numbers. Because eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable.

Joey Delarosa of all people played 85 minutes in 33 games at St John's. He scored 9 points and had 16 rebounds. You might think that was productive, I do not.

I think Amar would be a fine 11th man, mostly because I don't think the 11th man matters. I think Freudenburcgh might be a fine sixth or seventh man in a couple of years, which is why I think your plan to keep AA over him is a sign of mental insanity. Short of a transmogrification like the one Dom Pointer underwent, or David Cain, nothing AA does next year is going to matter and if next year depends on whether AA is better than RF the whole thing is coitused and it doesn't matter anyway.

I think the ceiling for Amar is probably Donald Emanuel, but even DE had skills that the team could count on. Not many, but some. Amar does nothing that we can count on him doing other fouling.

Emanuel had a surprisingly good senior year, especially considering who was coaching him and if AA turns out as well as DE I'll start going to church. I wouldn't trade either of them as seniors as RF as a freshman.

TONYD3

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #108 on: April 03, 2017, 12:27:45 PM »
Joey delorosa contributed vs st. Mary's and duke. He gave us a few solid minutes. He was useful for 2 games. He helped slow down that kid from st. Mary's and kept our better players out of foul trouble . We won that game. He also played and didn't kill us vs duke.
Amar Mighh be able to go that. RF can't . He has no role. Maybe he becomes a lottery pick. Right now he can't guard anyone right now . He also is not any kind of offenseive threat.

Foad

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #109 on: April 03, 2017, 12:59:12 PM »
Joey delorosa contributed vs st. Mary's and duke. He gave us a few solid minutes. He was useful for 2 games. He helped slow down that kid from st. Mary's and kept our better players out of foul trouble . We won that game. He also played and didn't kill us vs duke.

JDLR who I can't believe I'm even discussing played three minutes versus dook. Those must have been the most remarkable 180 seconds in college BB history for you to remember them. He played 12 minutes versus SM. In those combined 15 minutes that so impressed you he had no points, two rebounds and four personal fouls.

I feel confident that RF could play 15 minutes and score no points and get two rebounds, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Poison

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #110 on: April 03, 2017, 01:13:40 PM »
Foady- just reread your post. Amar's stats weren't good. He is still terrible. However he played physical the last few games. No matter what his numbers I thought he contributed in both Georgetown wins. Next year he won't have good numbers either.  But if used properly he could contribute even if his final numbers are 3 points, 2 rebounds and 3 fouls.

Against GT in two games AA had zero points and 4 rebounds. To the extent you think otherwise you're confused. That said, I agree he might contribute next year and even of he doesn't the continuity would be welcome. According to my math carry the one he'd be the only senior on the roster.
Have to stop focusing so much on stats. We may have led the country in blocks. If not we were close. Still we were horribly defensively. Some on this board wanted to give Owens big east defensive player of the year, even though he isn't even a good defensive player. (I don't think he is a bad defensive player).
Joey delerosa may be the least skilled player we ever had. He played some productive minutes. He never accumulated stats.
If you think Amar can't even contribute as a back up foward, why would you want him back? In sports you continue positive things . If something doesn't work 3 years in a row it won't magically work the 4th.

Given the choice between your recollection of the productive minutes Alibegoqth played versus GT and actual numbers that reflect his production - or more precisely his lack of production - I'll take the numbers. Because eyewitness testimony is inherently unreliable.

Joey Delarosa of all people played 85 minutes in 33 games at St John's. He scored 9 points and had 16 rebounds. You might think that was productive, I do not.

I think Amar would be a fine 11th man, mostly because I don't think the 11th man matters. I think Freudenburcgh might be a fine sixth or seventh man in a couple of years, which is why I think your plan to keep AA over him is a sign of mental insanity. Short of a transmogrification like the one Dom Pointer underwent, or David Cain, nothing AA does next year is going to matter and if next year depends on whether AA is better than RF the whole thing is coitused and it doesn't matter anyway.

I think the ceiling for Amar is probably Donald Emanuel, but even DE had skills that the team could count on. Not many, but some. Amar does nothing that we can count on him doing other fouling.

Emanuel had a surprisingly good senior year, especially considering who was coaching him and if AA turns out as well as DE I'll start going to church. I wouldn't trade either of them as seniors as RF as a freshman.

Freudenberg needs to hit the weight room. He's a stick. And, he needs to learn how to play against guys with Big East basketball speed. The game he came from was played with slower athletes. He just wasn't ready for this.

Mullin gave RF his number. Let's see what plan coach draws up this summer for him.

Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #111 on: April 03, 2017, 01:29:53 PM »
Joey delorosa contributed vs st. Mary's and duke. He gave us a few solid minutes. He was useful for 2 games. He helped slow down that kid from st. Mary's and kept our better players out of foul trouble . We won that game. He also played and didn't kill us vs duke.

JDLR who I can't believe I'm even discussing played three minutes versus dook. Those must have been the most remarkable 180 seconds in college BB history for you to remember them. He played 12 minutes versus SM. In those combined 15 minutes that so impressed you he had no points, two rebounds and four personal fouls.

I feel confident that RF could play 15 minutes and score no points and get two rebounds, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

The De La Rosa's grabbbed more balls in the showers than they did under the hoop

Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #112 on: April 10, 2017, 10:47:14 PM »
Lord knows Pitt has enough schollies open this coming year:

https://twitter.com/carminecsju/status/851625503740112896


MCNPA

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2017, 03:26:25 PM »
Well he's in for a rude awakening if he thinks he's gonna get more minutes at Pitt than he did here.  ellison can play for sure, but I think a level below the ACC might be smarter.

goredmen

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2017, 03:33:17 PM »
Well he's in for a rude awakening if he thinks he's gonna get more minutes at Pitt than he did here.  ellison can play for sure, but I think a level below the ACC might be smarter.

Pittsburgh has no players on their roster right now
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 03:33:41 PM by goredmen »

Marillac

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #115 on: April 11, 2017, 04:00:34 PM »
Well he's in for a rude awakening if he thinks he's gonna get more minutes at Pitt than he did here.  ellison can play for sure, but I think a level below the ACC might be smarter.

Pitt is a mess. The program is spiraling downwards just like BC did when they joined the ACC. Nobody cares about these teams in the ACC, and they lose all rivalries instantly and become irrelevant very quickly.

MCNPA

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #116 on: April 11, 2017, 04:53:10 PM »
Well he's in for a rude awakening if he thinks he's gonna get more minutes at Pitt than he did here.  ellison can play for sure, but I think a level below the ACC might be smarter.

Pittsburgh has no players on their roster right now

That's right now, but what about after 2 seasons when he finally suits up for them?  If he was gonna play this upcoming season, I'd say sure...

goredmen

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Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #117 on: April 11, 2017, 05:24:48 PM »
Well he's in for a rude awakening if he thinks he's gonna get more minutes at Pitt than he did here.  ellison can play for sure, but I think a level below the ACC might be smarter.

Pittsburgh has no players on their roster right now

That's right now, but what about after 2 seasons when he finally suits up for them?  If he was gonna play this upcoming season, I'd say sure...

I agree that he'd be better suited a level lower, but if he wants to get solid minutes in a big conference, Pitt may be the best place for him. By the time he's ready to play he'll be a 4th year junior most likely competing for minutes against 3 star freshmen and sophomores and other average transfers. Plus he'll graduate after that season and can then go play immediately somewhere else for his final year

Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #118 on: April 17, 2017, 08:47:41 AM »
Ellison down to Pitt,  UVA and Harvard.

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/853951515421265921

Re: Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring
« Reply #119 on: April 17, 2017, 09:25:42 AM »
Go play for Amaker, young man.  Solid hoops and a degree that has clout for a lifetime.  Make some great connections too that can help with whatever you want to do after basketball.