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Author Topic: Zone Defense  (Read 670 times)

Marillac

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Zone Defense
« on: April 20, 2017, 05:41:13 PM »
Do you think the staff will turn to the zone this season? It seems pretty obvious that this team is built for the zone. Owens is a premier weakside shot blocker that simply can't stay on the floor in man-to-man. The kid averaged only 18.8 MPG last season. The zone could protect him, extend his time on the court, and allow stronger players like Clark to help out with bulkier bigs. Based on Matt's Twitter comments, it seems Yakwe  will be our backup center again. Yakwe, like Ponds, played primarily zone in high school. A backline of 6'7 Yakwe, 6'7 Clark, and 6'6 Ahmed doesn't look too bad for 15 MPG and causes all kinds of matchup problems for the opposition on the other end of the floor.

Simon is kid with a ridiculous reach for a perimeter player and a knack for jumping passing lanes. While I think we should temper expectations of what he will do in the half court offensively (I think Ellison has better guard skills), he is the definition of an open court player. He's as good as we've had in terms of getting the rebound and pushing in secondary transition.  He could be a demon pressing and especially trapping. Ponds also excels in the open court. Write them down for a combined five steals a game next year with any kind of pressure defense.

Let be honest, we aren't going outrebound good teams next year with our frontline and we couldn't stop anyone from getting in the lane this last season. Clog the lane with the zone and make them pay for crashing weakside glass with runouts. Press, trap, and create easy buckets like the 2010-2011 team did so effortlessly.

braintrust

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 06:19:05 PM »
Thanks Marillac,

If Ellison has better guard skills than Simon, Simon must be pretty poor. How many cross court dead ducks did Ellison toss? At least 1 a game. He was good for getting stripped and falling down after losing the ball at least once a game., Didn't he have the worst +/- of anyone on the team, and by a large difference? Hopefully Simon doesn't have the turnovers that Ellison had that lead to easy baskets.

I wonder, who does teach/coach defense. Shot blocking hasn't been a defensive strength for us. Everyone who goes up to try and block a shot leaves themselves out of position for boxing out and defensive rebounding. The lost defensive rebounds, 2nd-3rd chance points for the opposition far out weigh the blocked shot we get and control the basketball from that block shot.

We have a long way to go defensively. We have individuals that have individual skills; fast hands for steals [Ponds, Lovett] and shot blockers [Owens, Yakwe] but we play very poor team defense.

Marillac

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 06:45:41 PM »
Thanks Marillac,

If Ellison has better guard skills than Simon, Simon must be pretty poor. How many cross court dead ducks did Ellison toss? At least 1 a game. He was good for getting stripped and falling down after losing the ball at least once a game., Didn't he have the worst +/- of anyone on the team, and by a large difference? Hopefully Simon doesn't have the turnovers that Ellison had that lead to easy baskets.

I wonder, who does teach/coach defense. Shot blocking hasn't been a defensive strength for us. Everyone who goes up to try and block a shot leaves themselves out of position for boxing out and defensive rebounding. The lost defensive rebounds, 2nd-3rd chance points for the opposition far out weigh the blocked shot we get and control the basketball from that block shot.

We have a long way to go defensively. We have individuals that have individual skills; fast hands for steals [Ponds, Lovett] and shot blockers [Owens, Yakwe] but we play very poor team defense.

I agree completely about the D. Going into last season I wrote "Unfortunately, I don't see this group stopping anyone." The blocked shot is also the most overrated stat in basketball IMO. Our guards could not stop the ball at all and Owens and especially Yakwe sacrificed position for blocks. We must have led the country in goaltending calls dating back to Obekpa's  freshman year.

As for Simon, I feel like I have a very good grasp on his game. He is nowhere near a PG and that is evident immediately. His dribble is too high and he lacks body control. Last I saw his shot was disgusting, but everyone seems to be able to shoot with this staff so it's not out of the question he can shoot 30-33% from deep with good selection. But the kid is a racecar in the open court with really good vision. I think he will be a cross between Horne and Pointer with his ability to make things happen. Simon has better guard skills than Ahmed without question, but I think  Ellison edges him there in spite his lack of awareness. I think Simon will be more of a project than many expect. Clark is the guy I anticipate being a potential all conference player.


goredmen

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 07:32:51 PM »
I'd like to see us press for 40 minutes. We'll have enough depth to rotate guys in and out to keep them fresh and it could hide some of the defensive deficiencies of our guards

Moose

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 09:00:45 PM »
I'd like to see us press for 40 minutes. We'll have enough depth to rotate guys in and out to keep them fresh and it could hide some of the defensive deficiencies of our guards

I don't think we have that kind of depth yet
Remember who broke the Slice news

goredmen

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 11:01:29 PM »
I'd like to see us press for 40 minutes. We'll have enough depth to rotate guys in and out to keep them fresh and it could hide some of the defensive deficiencies of our guards

I don't think we have that kind of depth yet

I think we do but concede it's not a sure thing. Right now we have 8 guys on the roster that will be getting minutes next season with a few of those guys being able to play 2 or 3 different positions to provide more lineup versatility. That doesn't include Amar who could get 8-10 minutes per game if he stays and a guy like Kante who could also get spot minutes if needed

Marco Baldi

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 11:03:47 PM »
I said this during the season, I'd like to see a 1 3 1, with Yakwe up top

Poison

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 11:27:43 PM »
It's bizarre that the only team that Mullin has a defensive strategy for is Syracuse.

Moose

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 07:37:23 AM »
I'd like to see us press for 40 minutes. We'll have enough depth to rotate guys in and out to keep them fresh and it could hide some of the defensive deficiencies of our guards

I don't think we have that kind of depth yet

I think we do but concede it's not a sure thing. Right now we have 8 guys on the roster that will be getting minutes next season with a few of those guys being able to play 2 or 3 different positions to provide more lineup versatility. That doesn't include Amar who could get 8-10 minutes per game if he stays and a guy like Kante who could also get spot minutes if needed

I've said on here for years that 11 is the magic number of scholarships.  The goal should be 11 contributors.  Now how you view a contributor is a whole different ball game.  You want to be able to run out 2 sets of 5 and another wildcard.  11 also can cover up injuries.  With the last two spots its good to play the transfer game.  Because we know 13 players never play.
Remember who broke the Slice news

Poison

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 08:34:53 AM »
I'm not a fan of zone defense. But I'd be happy if they were encouraged to box out. That is a clear flaw in this staff. They don't emphasize because just about every players goes through the game as if they've never even heard of the concept before.

derk

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 10:35:04 AM »
Thanks Marillac,

If Ellison has better guard skills than Simon, Simon must be pretty poor. How many cross court dead ducks did Ellison toss? At least 1 a game. He was good for getting stripped and falling down after losing the ball at least once a game., Didn't he have the worst +/- of anyone on the team, and by a large difference? Hopefully Simon doesn't have the turnovers that Ellison had that lead to easy baskets.

I wonder, who does teach/coach defense. Shot blocking hasn't been a defensive strength for us. Everyone who goes up to try and block a shot leaves themselves out of position for boxing out and defensive rebounding. The lost defensive rebounds, 2nd-3rd chance points for the opposition far out weigh the blocked shot we get and control the basketball from that block shot.

We have a long way to go defensively. We have individuals that have individual skills; fast hands for steals [Ponds, Lovett] and shot blockers [Owens, Yakwe] but we play very poor team defense.

I agree completely about the D. Going into last season I wrote "Unfortunately, I don't see this group stopping anyone." The blocked shot is also the most overrated stat in basketball IMO. Our guards could not stop the ball at all and Owens and especially Yakwe sacrificed position for blocks. We must have led the country in goaltending calls dating back to Obekpa's  freshman year.

As for Simon, I feel like I have a very good grasp on his game. He is nowhere near a PG and that is evident immediately. His dribble is too high and he lacks body control. Last I saw his shot was disgusting, but everyone seems to be able to shoot with this staff so it's not out of the question he can shoot 30-33% from deep with good selection. But the kid is a racecar in the open court with really good vision. I think he will be a cross between Horne and Pointer with his ability to make things happen. Simon has better guard skills than Ahmed without question, but I think  Ellison edges him there in spite his lack of awareness. I think Simon will be more of a project than many expect. Clark is the guy I anticipate being a potential all conference player.


Wow. Some nasty comments about Simon. First time I've seen him talked about in such negative terms. I've never seen him. Can anyone out there verify or denounce what was just said ?

Marillac

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 11:28:14 AM »
Thanks Marillac,

If Ellison has better guard skills than Simon, Simon must be pretty poor. How many cross court dead ducks did Ellison toss? At least 1 a game. He was good for getting stripped and falling down after losing the ball at least once a game., Didn't he have the worst +/- of anyone on the team, and by a large difference? Hopefully Simon doesn't have the turnovers that Ellison had that lead to easy baskets.

I wonder, who does teach/coach defense. Shot blocking hasn't been a defensive strength for us. Everyone who goes up to try and block a shot leaves themselves out of position for boxing out and defensive rebounding. The lost defensive rebounds, 2nd-3rd chance points for the opposition far out weigh the blocked shot we get and control the basketball from that block shot.

We have a long way to go defensively. We have individuals that have individual skills; fast hands for steals [Ponds, Lovett] and shot blockers [Owens, Yakwe] but we play very poor team defense.

I agree completely about the D. Going into last season I wrote "Unfortunately, I don't see this group stopping anyone." The blocked shot is also the most overrated stat in basketball IMO. Our guards could not stop the ball at all and Owens and especially Yakwe sacrificed position for blocks. We must have led the country in goaltending calls dating back to Obekpa's  freshman year.

As for Simon, I feel like I have a very good grasp on his game. He is nowhere near a PG and that is evident immediately. His dribble is too high and he lacks body control. Last I saw his shot was disgusting, but everyone seems to be able to shoot with this staff so it's not out of the question he can shoot 30-33% from deep with good selection. But the kid is a racecar in the open court with really good vision. I think he will be a cross between Horne and Pointer with his ability to make things happen. Simon has better guard skills than Ahmed without question, but I think  Ellison edges him there in spite his lack of awareness. I think Simon will be more of a project than many expect. Clark is the guy I anticipate being a potential all conference player.


Wow. Some nasty comments about Simon. First time I've seen him talked about in such negative terms. I've never seen him. Can anyone out there verify or denounce what was just said ?

I don't think they were nasty. I'm really excited for him and what he can bring as a defensive stopper and as a guy that will create easy shots out of thin air. Remember how we just seemed to get a ton of deflections, unforced errors by the opposition, and steals when Horne was on the court? I think we'll see a lot of that with Simon. I also really like his ability to rebound and push. We didn't have that third guy last season. Ahmed didnt really have the handle and Ellison didn't really have the athletic ability or awareness (or rebounding ability). Simon's handle for the SF position is excellent. For the PG position? Not so much. On a scale of 1-10, Simon is a 9 in the open court.

Marillac

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 11:36:27 AM »
I said this during the season, I'd like to see a 1 3 1, with Yakwe up top

I'd love to see a switching defense of a 2-3 matchup, some man, and a 1-3-1. At the top of the 1-3-1,  I want Simon. 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and great lateral movemt. I want Ponds down low running the baseline and stripping bigs with his elite hands.

I agree with Moose in that I don't see a team deep enough for 40 minute of hell.  I see an eight man roatation of Ponds, Clark, Lovett, Simon, Owens, Ahmed, Yakwe, and Mussini in that order of minutes. AA and Kante on the outside looking in.

It's difficult to draw up a lineup where Ponds and Clark aren't on the floor. I felt the same way about Hardy and Brownlee going into their senior season.

jdhistory

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 12:25:20 PM »
Switching things up and giving teams multiple looks and things to prepare for is never a bad idea.  Take our strengths (quickness) and do some trapping in the back court or front court.  Play some zone and man-to-man, especially when we have certain players on the floor.  It always amazes me when TV commentators talk about switching things up on the defensive end likes it's some new coaching idea or they make the coach out to be some genius because half way through the 2nd half they went to zone for 5 minutes and really disrupted the other team's offense.  That is what they're supposed to do unless what they're doing is consistently working.  It's not rocket science.

Poison

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 03:25:36 PM »
Thanks Marillac,

If Ellison has better guard skills than Simon, Simon must be pretty poor. How many cross court dead ducks did Ellison toss? At least 1 a game. He was good for getting stripped and falling down after losing the ball at least once a game., Didn't he have the worst +/- of anyone on the team, and by a large difference? Hopefully Simon doesn't have the turnovers that Ellison had that lead to easy baskets.

I wonder, who does teach/coach defense. Shot blocking hasn't been a defensive strength for us. Everyone who goes up to try and block a shot leaves themselves out of position for boxing out and defensive rebounding. The lost defensive rebounds, 2nd-3rd chance points for the opposition far out weigh the blocked shot we get and control the basketball from that block shot.

We have a long way to go defensively. We have individuals that have individual skills; fast hands for steals [Ponds, Lovett] and shot blockers [Owens, Yakwe] but we play very poor team defense.

I agree completely about the D. Going into last season I wrote "Unfortunately, I don't see this group stopping anyone." The blocked shot is also the most overrated stat in basketball IMO. Our guards could not stop the ball at all and Owens and especially Yakwe sacrificed position for blocks. We must have led the country in goaltending calls dating back to Obekpa's  freshman year.

As for Simon, I feel like I have a very good grasp on his game. He is nowhere near a PG and that is evident immediately. His dribble is too high and he lacks body control. Last I saw his shot was disgusting, but everyone seems to be able to shoot with this staff so it's not out of the question he can shoot 30-33% from deep with good selection. But the kid is a racecar in the open court with really good vision. I think he will be a cross between Horne and Pointer with his ability to make things happen. Simon has better guard skills than Ahmed without question, but I think  Ellison edges him there in spite his lack of awareness. I think Simon will be more of a project than many expect. Clark is the guy I anticipate being a potential all conference player.


Wow. Some nasty comments about Simon. First time I've seen him talked about in such negative terms. I've never seen him. Can anyone out there verify or denounce what was just said ?

Matt A said that Simon was really good and that he can legitimately play the 1-3 at a high level. However, he did not say very much about Clark.

carmineabbatiello

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 03:43:17 PM »
I said this during the season, I'd like to see a 1 3 1, with Yakwe up top

I'd love to see a switching defense of a 2-3 matchup, some man, and a 1-3-1. At the top of the 1-3-1,  I want Simon. 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and great lateral movemt. I want Ponds down low running the baseline and stripping bigs with his elite hands.

I agree with Moose in that I don't see a team deep enough for 40 minute of hell.  I see an eight man roatation of Ponds, Clark, Lovett, Simon, Owens, Ahmed, Yakwe, and Mussini in that order of minutes. AA and Kante on the outside looking in.

It's difficult to draw up a lineup where Ponds and Clark aren't on the floor. I felt the same way about Hardy and Brownlee going into their senior season.

Are you still coaching?

ras

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Re: Zone Defense
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 10:24:08 PM »
Thanks Marillac,

If Ellison has better guard skills than Simon, Simon must be pretty poor. How many cross court dead ducks did Ellison toss? At least 1 a game. He was good for getting stripped and falling down after losing the ball at least once a game., Didn't he have the worst +/- of anyone on the team, and by a large difference? Hopefully Simon doesn't have the turnovers that Ellison had that lead to easy baskets.

I wonder, who does teach/coach defense. Shot blocking hasn't been a defensive strength for us. Everyone who goes up to try and block a shot leaves themselves out of position for boxing out and defensive rebounding. The lost defensive rebounds, 2nd-3rd chance points for the opposition far out weigh the blocked shot we get and control the basketball from that block shot.

We have a long way to go defensively. We have individuals that have individual skills; fast hands for steals [Ponds, Lovett] and shot blockers [Owens, Yakwe] but we play very poor team defense.

I agree completely about the D. Going into last season I wrote "Unfortunately, I don't see this group stopping anyone." The blocked shot is also the most overrated stat in basketball IMO. Our guards could not stop the ball at all and Owens and especially Yakwe sacrificed position for blocks. We must have led the country in goaltending calls dating back to Obekpa's  freshman year.

As for Simon, I feel like I have a very good grasp on his game. He is nowhere near a PG and that is evident immediately. His dribble is too high and he lacks body control. Last I saw his shot was disgusting, but everyone seems to be able to shoot with this staff so it's not out of the question he can shoot 30-33% from deep with good selection. But the kid is a racecar in the open court with really good vision. I think he will be a cross between Horne and Pointer with his ability to make things happen. Simon has better guard skills than Ahmed without question, but I think  Ellison edges him there in spite his lack of awareness. I think Simon will be more of a project than many expect. Clark is the guy I anticipate being a potential all conference player.


Wow. Some nasty comments about Simon. First time I've seen him talked about in such negative terms. I've never seen him. Can anyone out there verify or denounce what was just said ?

Matt A said that Simon was really good and that he can legitimately play the 1-3 at a high level. However, he did not say very much about Clark.
Yes he did. He said Clark has a good inside game and can also hit the 3 pointer.

 


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