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Game 1: New Orleans

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nudginator59

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2017, 11:45:42 AM »
If this year turns out to be a disaster, there will be some changes to the program.
Will there be any changes if the team only makes the NIT and/or if recruitment falls short?

Lavin was in a difficult position because a new President came in, while the President that hired him ended in scandal. Most of Lavin’s problems were caused by him. He might not have had a scandal ridden program, but it was certainly  filled with drama. He set himself up for the school to make a fresh start.

The other interesting aspect to this is Gempeshaw five year contract is on the back end. Will the school renew him for another five years, or hire a new President? How would this affect the program, and the coaching staff going forward?
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QuanMan

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2017, 12:26:59 PM »
Quote from: Marillac on November 11, 2017, 09:01:21 PM
I don't get the hate towards Bash after just one game.  He is vitally important as the third scorer and shooter. We don't win more than 15 games without him. I expect him to improve quite a bit.

Agreed. We're going to rely on him heavily this year, especially in conference play.
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Marillac

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2017, 12:48:02 PM »
Quote from: Lycidas on November 12, 2017, 11:34:23 AM
In 2+ years, CM and company have assembled what will likely turn out to be St. John's best outside shooting team ever. 

I actually think we will end up losing a few games due to lack of outside shooting when Ahmed and Clark are cold. Bash makes for a great fourth option, but we don't have that one shooting specialist almost every great team does. Trimble might be that guy (he's already like 5 for 6), but it's too early to tell.
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sju61982

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2017, 12:59:47 PM »
Quote from: JayJay on November 12, 2017, 09:07:14 AM
Quote from: isham on November 11, 2017, 10:22:07 PM
last night I saw a major coaching mistake that probably went unnoticed. With 2 mins left in the half coach changed to a zone.  If you haven't used it for 18 mins dont use it now because it allows the opponent to adjust at half time and it loses its effectiveness if you need to use it in the 2nd half.  You wont see a H S coach make that mistake.

And it was a bad zone at that.


It couldn't have been that bad.  We went on a 7-0 run to end the half.

The question should be, why didn't we stay in the zone (although, we did show it more in the second half)?
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ras

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2017, 04:58:10 PM »
The biggest problem as I see it so far is that Yakwe and Amar have been very ineffective. We essentially are going to have to rely on Bash, Owens and Clark at the 4 and 5 spots. Can not have Amar taking 3s and not rebounding and Yakwe is going to have to step up if  he can. If not, we are just to thin up front. And yes you can blame the coaching staff for not recruiting 1 big for this year. Simon seems like he’s not the greatest shooter, but he is a slasher and has a descent inside game. Can also pass and defend. We are going to need rebounding and an inside game from Clark. He’s the strongest player on the team and we don’t have much alternatives. We only watched one regular season game, so must take that into consideration. Re; Bash,  has to play in control, we are going to need him to play a lot of minutes. Infinitely better than Amar and Yakwe.
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carmineabbatiello

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2017, 06:24:50 PM »
Anybody see that jock dropping spin move almost carry and finish by Walden?

Clearly the play of the young season thus far?  Will be tough to top.
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RedmenNYC

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2017, 07:47:37 PM »
Quote from: Marillac on November 11, 2017, 09:01:21 PM
I don't get the hate towards Bash after just one game.  He is vitally important as the third scorer and shooter. We don't win more than 15 games without him. I expect him to improve quite a bit.

It's not hate towards him. The team, as presently constructed, does not have very much room for error, as we all know.  So when Bash makes terrible decisions, it just stands out - and they mostly result in 'unforced' errors. 

A game has many facets, that teams are competing on. Crudely:

1. rebounds, defensive
2. rebounds, offensive (second chance points)
3. low post scoring,
4. free-three scoring,
5. three-point scoring
6. transition game, offense and defense
7. turnovers
8. blocked shots
9. assists (i.e. sharing the basket-ball smartly)
10. coaching
11. Foul trouble/bench - i.e. being able withstand foul trouble/injuries.

Against legit competition, we're almost certain to lose #1, 2 and 3.   That means we have to win most of #4 through 11.
So when Bash makes bad decisions, it's adding to losing another bucket (or two)...

Basically, this is a gas-bag, long-winded way of saying we need him to play smart in order for the team to have a chance. The team definitely needs him.  He hustles and he can shoot decently (I hope, his new form hasn't made his shooting worse).  All the other starters played pretty smartly and passed the ball well. If Bash does the same thing, then it's a pretty potent starting-five.  If he plays smartly, he's a lock for double-digit points each game.  We want to him to score a lot.... We just want him to score the right way. His teammates will put him in a position to succeed, if he just trusts them and doesn't force it.
 


« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 09:53:47 AM by RedmenNYC »
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braintrust

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2017, 09:17:09 PM »
Quote from: ras on November 12, 2017, 04:58:10 PM
The biggest problem as I see it so far is that Yakwe and Amar have been very ineffective. We essentially are going to have to rely on Bash, Owens and Clark at the 4 and 5 spots. Can not have Amar taking 3s and not rebounding and Yakwe is going to have to step up if  he can. If not, we are just to thin up front. And yes you can blame the coaching staff for not recruiting 1 big for this year. Simon seems like he’s not the greatest shooter, but he is a slasher and has a descent inside game. Can also pass and defend. We are going to need rebounding and an inside game from Clark. He’s the strongest player on the team and we don’t have much alternatives. We only watched one regular season game, so must take that into consideration. Re; Bash,  has to play in control, we are going to need him to play a lot of minutes. Infinitely better than Amar and Yakwe.
I have tried to defend and figure out Amar, but he must have the worst big man IQ in D1 hoops. Might by all three levels, I don't watch D2 or D3 to make a blanket statement. He's a 6' 8" legit w/ pounds on his frame. Should be a prototype 4 or a backup 5. Why he thinks he can hoist 3s as soon as he gets on the court is...its just headshaking.

Does Yakwe even like basketball? Does he enjoy the game, is he a student of the game? Again, just a mystery.
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Rodman

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2017, 12:55:57 AM »
Quote from: Foad on November 12, 2017, 09:10:15 AM
Quote from: isham on November 11, 2017, 10:22:07 PM
last night I saw a major coaching mistake that probably went unnoticed. With 2 mins left in the half coach changed to a zone.  If you haven't used it for 18 mins dont use it now because it allows the opponent to adjust at half time and it loses its effectiveness if you need to use it in the 2nd half.  You wont see a H S coach make that mistake.

Coach Mullin is playing chess while you're playing checkers. He showed the zone precisely so that New Orleans would spend their entire halftime frantically drawing up plays to thwart the 2-3 and then he didn't use it again, thereby mooting their entire strategy. Classic black ops, I'm surprised you fell for it.

+1  Great reply! 
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newsman13

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2017, 09:11:38 AM »
Quote from: RedmenNYC on November 12, 2017, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: Marillac on November 11, 2017, 09:01:21 PM
I don't get the hate towards Bash after just one game.  He is vitally important as the third scorer and shooter. We don't win more than 15 games without him. I expect him to improve quite a bit.

It's not hate towards him. The team, as presently constructed, does not have very much room for error, as we all know.  So when Bash makes terrible decisions, it just stands - and it mostly results in an unforced error. 

A game has many facets, that teams are competing on. Crudely:

1. rebounds, defensive
2. rebounds, offensive (second chance points)
3. low post scoring,
4. free-three scoring,
5. three-point scoring
6. transition game, offense and defense
7. turnovers
8. blocked shots
9. assists (i.e. sharing the basket-ball smartly)
10. coaching
11. Foul trouble/bench - i.e. being able withstand foul trouble/injuries.

Against legit competition, we're almost certain to lose #1, 2 and 3.   That means we have to win mostly on 4 through 11.
So when Bash makes bad decisions, it's adding to losing another bucket (or two)...

Basically, this is a gas-bag, long-winded way of saying we need him to play smart in order for the team to have a chance. The team definitely needs him.  He hustles and he can shoot decently (I hope, with this new form).  All the other starters played pretty smartly and passed the ball well. If Bash does the same thing, then it's a pretty potent starting-five.  If he plays smartly, he's a lock for double-digit points each game.  We want to him to score a lot.... We just want him to score the right way. His teammates will put him in a position to succeed, if he just trusts them and doesn't force it.
 



Bash is a decent player who has some shortcomings.  What you see is what you'll get for the entire season.  He MIGHT have a game or two where he dominates an opponent.  He'll never be a player who puts the team on his back.  He isn't killing us and there's no one better waiting in the wings.
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Poison

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2017, 09:40:36 AM »
Re AliB & Yakwe:

How is it that you’re a senior and a junior and D3, Rutgers and New Orleans and you haven’t learned how to post up your man? You haven’t learned when and how to box out? You never know where the ball should go next once it’s passed to you. You haven’t learned to move your feet on d, get to the spot, securely establish position, and draw a charge? These two need a basketball education that they haven’t gotten yet.

The question is, why not? It’s not always the coach. It usually is, but remember Zendon didn’t listen to Mahoney or Frascilla and shockingly, ended up on the bench.

In terms of Ahmed, I think he was trying too hard to force offense. He was too amped up. It’s his senior year, and he wants to make an impact so the NBA, or some European team comes calling. Mullin and the staff have to focus him on the team game. We saw how beautifully it worked when Ponds and LoVett and Simon worked the ball around to Ahmed in the corner for an open 3. That’s the potential of this team if they move the ball like that. Once Ahmed checked his head into the game we pulled away. LoVett, Ponds, Simon, Clark and Ahmed should to be too much for any team we play before the BE.
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we are sju

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2017, 02:16:27 PM »
My takes:

Clark-Exactly what this team has needed. Lamont Middleton, Anthony Glover type.  Ideally would be a 4 paired with Owens. Going to struggle defensively and on the boards at the 5. Clark, Ahmed and Simon are the only proof that ST John's has a weight room.

Ahmed-Same guy. 50/50 player. If he does 5 things right in a game will do 5 things poorly. Best fit would be for him to come off the bench as an energy / scorer. My remote controls remain in danger.

Simon- going to be a really good player for us. Basically everything we hoped Ellison and before him Reggie Jessie could be.

Lovett- apologies to Marillac but our best player and shooter. Not that it should be a competition but if we need a basket he would be my #1 choice.

Ponds- Fun to watch. By time he is done will be our all time leading scorer. He is not really a one or a two but who cares. Should be here for 4 years.

Owens-I would love to see him start paired with Clark. Best rebounder and shot blocker plus doesn't have bad touch. I think he lost weight from last year. He should write a diet book for super models on how to keep the weight off.

Yakwe- I am pretty sure he is our first case of an upcoming zombie apocalypse.  Do we know if he randomly tries to bite his teammates? I mean this can't be the same guy from 2 years ago, right? This guy stinks. Has to be a zombie no? If Vegas was laying odds on our annual in season transfer trend continuing, Yakwe would be odds on favorite.

Alibegovic- If Robin Williams were still alive he would constantly be telling him "it's not your fault." It is not your fault." It is not his fault that 2 different coaches have recruited so poorly that Amar constantly finds himself a part of a major conference team's rotation. Fret not 15 and 8 performance will come out of nowhere at some point against a good team.

Trimble- I am really going to enjoy the Trimble experience. Weirdest body type for a guard that we have ever had. Not a bad looking jumper combined with the Super Freak do will make him a WASJU favorite.

Mullin- I love Chris Mullin and I am in the camp that no matter what happens he coaches as long as he wishes too. So with that being said, you couldn't grab a 6-8 guy who has eaten a cheeseburger within the last year that could help out down low and give you 5-10 mins a game somewhere? Anywhere?

Season prediction-  Going to be fun to watch, but will get frustrating watching teams play volley ball off the boards with us. Lack of rebounding leaves too little room for error. Going to have to come down from my original prediction and go with 17 or 18 wins and NIT berth.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 02:20:56 PM by we are sju »
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carmineabbatiello

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #112 on: November 14, 2017, 02:04:05 AM »
Quote from: we are sju on November 13, 2017, 02:16:27 PM
"Lovett- apologies to Marillac but our best player and shooter. Not that it should be a competition but if we need a basket he would be my #1 choice."

'Mullin- I love Chris Mullin and I am in the camp that no matter what happens he coaches as long as he wishes too.' 

Ata boy Wasju.  We're always on the same page.
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Marillac

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #113 on: November 14, 2017, 02:02:48 PM »
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on November 14, 2017, 02:04:05 AM
Quote from: we are sju on November 13, 2017, 02:16:27 PM
"Lovett- apologies to Marillac but our best player and shooter. Not that it should be a competition but if we need a basket he would be my #1 choice."

'Mullin- I love Chris Mullin and I am in the camp that no matter what happens he coaches as long as he wishes too.' 

Ata boy Wasju.  We're always on the same page.

You're both on the wrong page this time.
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Amaseinyourface2

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #114 on: November 14, 2017, 02:21:25 PM »
Quote from: Marillac on November 14, 2017, 02:02:48 PM
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on November 14, 2017, 02:04:05 AM
Quote from: we are sju on November 13, 2017, 02:16:27 PM
"Lovett- apologies to Marillac but our best player and shooter. Not that it should be a competition but if we need a basket he would be my #1 choice."

'Mullin- I love Chris Mullin and I am in the camp that no matter what happens he coaches as long as he wishes too.' 

Ata boy Wasju.  We're always on the same page.

You're both on the wrong page this time.

Agree
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Celtics11

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2017, 03:09:01 PM »
Quote from: Marillac on November 14, 2017, 02:02:48 PM
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on November 14, 2017, 02:04:05 AM
Quote from: we are sju on November 13, 2017, 02:16:27 PM
"Lovett- apologies to Marillac but our best player and shooter. Not that it should be a competition but if we need a basket he would be my #1 choice."

'Mullin- I love Chris Mullin and I am in the camp that no matter what happens he coaches as long as he wishes too.' 

Ata boy Wasju.  We're always on the same page.

You're both on the wrong page this time.
Page needs to be ripped out of the book.  ;)
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we are sju

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2017, 03:25:49 PM »
Lovett shoots a real jump shot and body little stronger at this point in going to basket. If we needed a basket I trust Lovett first. I like Ponds and we actually have two legit first team BE players. Don't really understand why there should be an argument on who is better?? If game on line I trust Lovett more.

Mullin thing is easy. People were defending Norm Roberts after his 4th year. Norm gets 5 years or whatever it was-seemed like 100- Mullin gets life!
If Mullin thing doesn't work out program is starting over. School fires Chris Mullin..... well that is going to set program back to Norm days. You are not getting a name coach in here. Mid major coach or some "hot" assistant going comes in, well just be prepared for our 1,000th rebuild since Louie retired. No thanks! 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 03:27:27 PM by we are sju »
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Celtics11

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2017, 03:37:26 PM »
Quote from: we are sju on November 14, 2017, 03:25:49 PM
Lovett shoots a real jump shot and body little stronger at this point in going to basket. If we needed a basket I trust Lovett first. I like Ponds and we actually have two legit first team BE players. Don't really understand why there should be an argument on who is better?? If game on line I trust Lovett more.

Mullin thing is easy. People were defending Norm Roberts after his 4th year. Norm gets 5 years or whatever it was-seemed like 100- Mullin gets life!
If Mullin thing doesn't work out program is starting over. School fires Chris Mullin..... well that is going to set program back to Norm days. You are not getting a name coach in here. Mid major coach or some "hot" assistant going comes in, well just be prepared for our 1,000th rebuild since Louie retired. No thanks! 
Your smarter than that, there are a number of ways the school and Chris can announce a parting of the ways without an out and out firing if it even comes to that. Hopefully it won't, but if things aren't working well after 5 years have to at least demand changes to staff.
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we are sju

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2017, 04:00:20 PM »
Quote from: Celtics11 on November 14, 2017, 03:37:26 PM
Quote from: we are sju on November 14, 2017, 03:25:49 PM
Lovett shoots a real jump shot and body little stronger at this point in going to basket. If we needed a basket I trust Lovett first. I like Ponds and we actually have two legit first team BE players. Don't really understand why there should be an argument on who is better?? If game on line I trust Lovett more.

Mullin thing is easy. People were defending Norm Roberts after his 4th year. Norm gets 5 years or whatever it was-seemed like 100- Mullin gets life!
If Mullin thing doesn't work out program is starting over. School fires Chris Mullin..... well that is going to set program back to Norm days. You are not getting a name coach in here. Mid major coach or some "hot" assistant going comes in, well just be prepared for our 1,000th rebuild since Louie retired. No thanks! 
Your smarter than that, there are a number of ways the school and Chris can announce a parting of the ways without an out and out firing if it even comes to that. Hopefully it won't, but if things aren't working well after 5 years have to at least demand changes to staff.

If this doesn't work out and we go in  yet another direction, Norm years will look like the "Glory Days" of the program. Who do you think the school will hire? Unless you are drinking the Hurley Kool Aid. This really needs to work out and since he is Chris Mullin. And yes 2 years and 1 game seems to be a little premature on the bitching!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 04:02:35 PM by we are sju »
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Marillac

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Re: Game 1: New Orleans
« Reply #119 on: November 14, 2017, 05:17:43 PM »
Quote from: we are sju on November 14, 2017, 03:25:49 PM
Lovett shoots a real jump shot and body little stronger at this point in going to basket. If we needed a basket I trust Lovett first. I like Ponds and we actually have two legit first team BE players. Don't really understand why there should be an argument on who is better?? If game on line I trust Lovett more.

Mullin thing is easy. People were defending Norm Roberts after his 4th year. Norm gets 5 years or whatever it was-seemed like 100- Mullin gets life!
If Mullin thing doesn't work out program is starting over. School fires Chris Mullin..... well that is going to set program back to Norm days. You are not getting a name coach in here. Mid major coach or some "hot" assistant going comes in, well just be prepared for our 1,000th rebuild since Louie retired. No thanks! 

What good is a Lovett layup if falls to the floor every time and gives the opponent a 5-4 or 5-3 advantage? Ponds is also the better shooter and can score any way imaginable.
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