6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 01:20:03 PM
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The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.
Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.
Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler. We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!
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Chris Mullin = Santa Claus for St. John’s fans over 50
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Chris Mullin = Santa Claus for St. John’s fans over 50
If Mullin is Santa that makes Danny Hurley the tooth fairy.
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Chris Mullin = Santa Claus for St. John’s fans over 50
In 85 I was 12 going on 13. Do the math.
So who is your Santa Claus Anthony Mason jr?
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We've done this over and over again with Lavin, but the reason I personally wanted him gone was because he grossly underachieved with the talent he had and we were set up for another couple rebuilding type years after the 2015 season whether he stayed or not. It was no lock that Rysheed and Obekpa were going to stay had Lavin stayed, and even if they did we still would not have been a good team in 15-16.
Now, I agree it is too early to want to fire Mullin. To expect huge results in year 3 after what he inherited is a ton to ask of any coach. That being said, we shouldn't be 0-5 at this point either and it doesn't take a basketball genius to see that there are huge deficiencies in the coaching. I don't think he should be fired but it's time for him to swallow his pride a little bit and make some changes on the coaching staff. We absolutely cannot enter next season with these same 4 coaches.
Ideally, what this program needs is a young, hungry coach whose career depends on being successful here. Lavin got lazy because he didn't have the fire and passion needed to win because he knew he had a comfy TV job waiting for him if needed it. I'm sure Mullin has the fire and passion to win but he's another guy who will be just fine if he isn't coaching anymore. We need a young up and coming guy to come in here and work his tail off and if that means he leaves after 5 or so years for a better job, that would be great because that would mean he won here.
Jay Wright came from Hofstra. Chris Mack was an assistant at Xavier before becoming their head coach. Kevin Willard came from Iona. Those are the 3 best teams in our conference this year. No reason we can't find a guy like that
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We've done this over and over again with Lavin, but the reason I personally wanted him gone was because he grossly underachieved with the talent he had and we were set up for another couple rebuilding type years after the 2015 season whether he stayed or not. It was no lock that Rysheed and Obekpa were going to stay had Lavin stayed, and even if they did we still would not have been a good team in 15-16.
Now, I agree it is too early to want to fire Mullin. To expect huge results in year 3 after what he inherited is a ton to ask of any coach. That being said, we shouldn't be 0-5 at this point either and it doesn't take a basketball genius to see that there are huge deficiencies in the coaching. I don't think he should be fired but it's time for him to swallow his pride a little bit and make some changes on the coaching staff. We absolutely cannot enter next season with these same 4 coaches.
Ideally, what this program needs is a young, hungry coach whose career depends on being successful here. Lavin got lazy because he didn't have the fire and passion needed to win because he knew he had a comfy TV job waiting for him if needed it. I'm sure Mullin has the fire and passion to win but he's another guy who will be just fine if he isn't coaching anymore. We need a young up and coming guy to come in here and work his tail off and if that means he leaves after 5 or so years for a better job, that would be great because that would mean he won here.
Jay Wright came from Hofstra. Chris Mack was an assistant at Xavier before becoming their head coach. Kevin Willard came from Iona. Those are the 3 best teams in our conference this year. No reason we can't find a guy like that
There was definitely stretches in wrights and Williards career at those schools where our fan base would have turned on them and turned on them fast. Mullin has not impressed me what so ever as a game coach but I’m not trying to start over yet.
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Kevin Willard? Give me a break. How quickly people forget he sold his soul for this current class and will be a bottom dweller moving forward after this
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We've done this over and over again with Lavin, but the reason I personally wanted him gone was because he grossly underachieved with the talent he had and we were set up for another couple rebuilding type years after the 2015 season whether he stayed or not. It was no lock that Rysheed and Obekpa were going to stay had Lavin stayed, and even if they did we still would not have been a good team in 15-16.
Now, I agree it is too early to want to fire Mullin. To expect huge results in year 3 after what he inherited is a ton to ask of any coach. That being said, we shouldn't be 0-5 at this point either and it doesn't take a basketball genius to see that there are huge deficiencies in the coaching. I don't think he should be fired but it's time for him to swallow his pride a little bit and make some changes on the coaching staff. We absolutely cannot enter next season with these same 4 coaches.
Ideally, what this program needs is a young, hungry coach whose career depends on being successful here. Lavin got lazy because he didn't have the fire and passion needed to win because he knew he had a comfy TV job waiting for him if needed it. I'm sure Mullin has the fire and passion to win but he's another guy who will be just fine if he isn't coaching anymore. We need a young up and coming guy to come in here and work his tail off and if that means he leaves after 5 or so years for a better job, that would be great because that would mean he won here.
Jay Wright came from Hofstra. Chris Mack was an assistant at Xavier before becoming their head coach. Kevin Willard came from Iona. Those are the 3 best teams in our conference this year. No reason we can't find a guy like that
There was definitely stretches in wrights and Williards career at those schools where our fan base would have turned on them and turned on them fast. Mullin has not impressed me what so ever as a game coach but I’m not trying to start over yet.
I agree, and like I said I do think it is too early to fire him and start over, not that he would ever get fired anyway. And our fan base may be crazy but there are definitely other fanbases just as crazy out there including the SHU one. They wanted Willard's head on a stake not too long ago but he made a gamble that Lavin was willing to make and he turned it around in a hurry
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Kevin Willard? Give me a break. How quickly people forget he sold his soul for this current class and will be a bottom dweller moving forward after this
Who cares. We can't even dream about the success he's had over the last 3 years
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We've done this over and over again with Lavin, but the reason I personally wanted him gone was because he grossly underachieved with the talent he had and we were set up for another couple rebuilding type years after the 2015 season whether he stayed or not. It was no lock that Rysheed and Obekpa were going to stay had Lavin stayed, and even if they did we still would not have been a good team in 15-16.
Now, I agree it is too early to want to fire Mullin. To expect huge results in year 3 after what he inherited is a ton to ask of any coach. That being said, we shouldn't be 0-5 at this point either and it doesn't take a basketball genius to see that there are huge deficiencies in the coaching. I don't think he should be fired but it's time for him to swallow his pride a little bit and make some changes on the coaching staff. We absolutely cannot enter next season with these same 4 coaches.
Ideally, what this program needs is a young, hungry coach whose career depends on being successful here. Lavin got lazy because he didn't have the fire and passion needed to win because he knew he had a comfy TV job waiting for him if needed it. I'm sure Mullin has the fire and passion to win but he's another guy who will be just fine if he isn't coaching anymore. We need a young up and coming guy to come in here and work his tail off and if that means he leaves after 5 or so years for a better job, that would be great because that would mean he won here.
Jay Wright came from Hofstra. Chris Mack was an assistant at Xavier before becoming their head coach. Kevin Willard came from Iona. Those are the 3 best teams in our conference this year. No reason we can't find a guy like that
There was definitely stretches in wrights and Williards career at those schools where our fan base would have turned on them and turned on them fast. Mullin has not impressed me what so ever as a game coach but I’m not trying to start over yet.
Exactly. I get Mullin is not off to a good start and never coached before. But if this was Joe Schmoe the up and coming hot assistant coach at Kansas and we got off to this start people would be calling for his head as well. This is not a quick fix program. That is my only point. If you are not going to give Mullin a leash, who would you give one to? An established good coach with a track record is not coming here!
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The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.
Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.
Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler. We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!
More or less agree with this. However, I had no issue moving on from Lavin - thought he was lazy and his heart wasn't in it - with the understanding that there was no slam dunk hire/silver bullet. This is clearly not an easy place to succeed otherwise someone would have figured it out over the last 25 yrs.
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
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You can think Lavin was lazy, full of hot air, etc. But we are St. John's. We had no business firing a coach who brought us to our first NCAAT in a decade, three 20 win seasons, and a 2nd tourney appearance in his final year.
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
+1 all the rest is white noise. keep comparing him to Lavin, Norm, blah blah blah blah.
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You can think Lavin was lazy, full of hot air, etc. But we are St. John's. We had no business firing a coach who brought us to our first NCAAT in a decade, three 20 win seasons, and a 2nd tourney appearance in his final year.
Frankly, I think it would've been 3 NCAA Tournament appearances, if Harrison wasn't causing issues during the 2012-2013 season. The team was 8-6 in the conference (16-10 overall) when he was kicked off the team. They were spanked in two games (vs. Pitt & @ Notre Dame), but lost two, winnable games (losing by 3 @ Providence & losing by 2 on a last second shot vs. Marquette during the last game of the season) to close out the regular season at 8-10 (16-14 overall).
IMO, with Harrison, they would've finished up at 10-8 in the conference (18-12 overall), and likely gotten themselves into the dance. I remember we were clearly on the bubble before Harrison's dismissal. All of this was done in a much tougher Big East.
Some continue to spout off Lavin being lazy and such, but some of that stuff is exaggerated, and the agenda-driven, insecure loudmouths were the one's who started that stuff and kept it going. He may have not put as much effort into things as he did when he first got the job, but he surely wasn't some overly-lethargic coach. There were also some things going on during the last season and half that was probably eating at him, as well.
Regardless, it's old news. Now, if some of y'all wanna speak of lethargic.......
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
Coming off a 9-17 season at his previous school a somewhat successful college coach then went 38-47 in his first 3 years at his current school. If you were the AD at that school, I am guessing that guy never sees his fourth year.
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After 5 years Willard and the Hall were a mess. He did what he had to do with Tiny and Antigua and VERY fortunately for him it has worked out over the past three years. That said, their fan base wanted him gone last year 2/3 of the way through the Big East season when it appeared they weren't making the tourney. In 7 years he has not won a single tournament game. He's been extremely extremely fortunate in getting breaks (like Angel staying his senior year - what kids with those accolades stay that long even if they aren't going right to the NBA). He was close to taking the South Florida job last year when the season was tanking and Angel was halfway out the door, but once again he got some breaks and it has all pulled together.
Kevin Willard? Give me a break. How quickly people forget he sold his soul for this current class and will be a bottom dweller moving forward after this
Who cares. We can't even dream about the success he's had over the last 3 years
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
Coming off a 9-17 season at his previous school a somewhat successful college coach then went 38-47 in his first 3 years at his current school. If you were the AD at that school, I am guessing that guy never sees his fourth year.
You're referring to Coach K. Different times, WASJU.
Guess what, though? I, once heard him on a radio show years ago talking about he knew he had to win that fourth season because he probably was gonna get fired. He likely bought himself a 4th year because he had a fairly, good first season (made it to the 3rd round of the NIT), and he had a terrific recruiting class the year before that was gonna be sophomore's (Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas, and David Henderson) during his 4th season, and a one of the top point freshman point guards coming in that season (Tommy Amaker).
He won that fourth season, and has never turned back. In his own words, it was (paraphrased) a "MUST win" season, and he came through.
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
Coming off a 9-17 season at his previous school a somewhat successful college coach then went 38-47 in his first 3 years at his current school. If you were the AD at that school, I am guessing that guy never sees his fourth year.
You're referring to Coach K. Different times, WASJU.
Guess what, though? I, once heard him on a radio show years ago talking about he knew he had to win that fourth season because he probably was gonna get fired. He likely bought himself a 4th year because he had a fairly, good first season (made it to the 3rd round of the NIT), and he had a terrific recruiting class the year before that was gonna be sophomore's (Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas, and David Henderson) during his 4th season, and a one of the top point freshman point guards coming in that season (Tommy Amaker).
He won that fourth season, and has never turned back. In his own words, it was (paraphrased) a "MUST win" season, and he came through.
If Lovett thing does not happen we win 17 or 18 and most would at least be mollified if not satisfied.
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After 5 years Willard and the Hall were a mess. He did what he had to do with Tiny and Antigua and VERY fortunately for him it has worked out over the past three years. That said, their fan base wanted him gone last year 2/3 of the way through the Big East season when it appeared they weren't making the tourney. In 7 years he has not won a single tournament game. He's been extremely extremely fortunate in getting breaks (like Angel staying his senior year - what kids with those accolades stay that long even if they aren't going right to the NBA). He was close to taking the South Florida job last year when the season was tanking and Angel was halfway out the door, but once again he got some breaks and it has all pulled together.
Kevin Willard? Give me a break. How quickly people forget he sold his soul for this current class and will be a bottom dweller moving forward after this
Who cares. We can't even dream about the success he's had over the last 3 years
Again, who cares how it happened? He won a conference championship, will have his team in the NCAA Tournament for a 3rd straight year and will be a top 25 team all season. He did what he needed to do to win. As long as he doesn't get them in trouble with the NCAA then he will have been a big success there if he leaves after this season. We'd kill for a 3 year stretch like that
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
Coming off a 9-17 season at his previous school a somewhat successful college coach then went 38-47 in his first 3 years at his current school. If you were the AD at that school, I am guessing that guy never sees his fourth year.
You're getting blinded by numbers. You need to look at progress on the court which is not happening here. Also a few short years later after K's mediocre start he was playing in a national title game. In Mullin's wildest dreams that would never happen here in a few short years from now. Nice try though.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
Coming off a 9-17 season at his previous school a somewhat successful college coach then went 38-47 in his first 3 years at his current school. If you were the AD at that school, I am guessing that guy never sees his fourth year.
You're referring to Coach K. Different times, WASJU.
Guess what, though? I, once heard him on a radio show years ago talking about he knew he had to win that fourth season because he probably was gonna get fired. He likely bought himself a 4th year because he had a fairly, good first season (made it to the 3rd round of the NIT), and he had a terrific recruiting class the year before that was gonna be sophomore's (Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas, and David Henderson) during his 4th season, and a one of the top point freshman point guards coming in that season (Tommy Amaker).
He won that fourth season, and has never turned back. In his own words, it was (paraphrased) a "MUST win" season, and he came through.
If Lovett thing does not happen we win 17 or 18 and most would at least be mollified if not satisfied.
That's possible. But, the staff had an opportunity to rectify that situation before the season started.
Don't get me wrong, as I like LoVett, and definitely think he would've be integral in helping us win games. But, his last few outings, he had been doing a bit too much shot hunting and even taking bad shots for my taste. It would've surely helped us win some games, but I'm not sure it was conducive to long-term winning.
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
Coming off a 9-17 season at his previous school a somewhat successful college coach then went 38-47 in his first 3 years at his current school. If you were the AD at that school, I am guessing that guy never sees his fourth year.
You're referring to Coach K. Different times, WASJU.
Guess what, though? I, once heard him on a radio show years ago talking about he knew he had to win that fourth season because he probably was gonna get fired. He likely bought himself a 4th year because he had a fairly, good first season (made it to the 3rd round of the NIT), and he had a terrific recruiting class the year before that was gonna be sophomore's (Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas, and David Henderson) during his 4th season, and a one of the top point freshman point guards coming in that season (Tommy Amaker).
He won that fourth season, and has never turned back. In his own words, it was (paraphrased) a "MUST win" season, and he came through.
The Coach K analogy is brought out every time we have a coaching change and we are still in year 3 complaining. It's old and it has to stop. totally different time, no social media, no 24 hour sports stations etc. Doesn't work that way anymore.
We get it if Duke had fired him after year 3 history would have changed. I can also give you dozens of examples of coaches who were kept after 3 years of bad or mediocre coaching and guess what? They were still bad/mediocre coaches long after that.
Stop. He is not getting fired we get it. Let's just ride this out and see how it works out. But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
Coming off a 9-17 season at his previous school a somewhat successful college coach then went 38-47 in his first 3 years at his current school. If you were the AD at that school, I am guessing that guy never sees his fourth year.
You're referring to Coach K. Different times, WASJU.
Guess what, though? I, once heard him on a radio show years ago talking about he knew he had to win that fourth season because he probably was gonna get fired. He likely bought himself a 4th year because he had a fairly, good first season (made it to the 3rd round of the NIT), and he had a terrific recruiting class the year before that was gonna be sophomore's (Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas, and David Henderson) during his 4th season, and a one of the top point freshman point guards coming in that season (Tommy Amaker).
He won that fourth season, and has never turned back. In his own words, it was (paraphrased) a "MUST win" season, and he came through.
The Coach K analogy is brought out every time we have a coaching change and we are still in year 3 complaining. It's old and it has to stop. totally different time, no social media, no 24 hour sports stations etc. Doesn't work that way anymore.
We get it if Duke had fired him after year 3 history would have changed. I can also give you dozens of examples of coaches who were kept after 3 years of bad or mediocre coaching and guess what? They were still bad/mediocre coaches long after that.
Stop. He is not getting fired we get it. Let's just ride this out and see how it works out. But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
+1
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
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This isn't about some set formula that if you give Mullin an extra year or more he will suddenly learn how to coach. This is about not seeing him getting better on the job, players not improving, team chemistry not improving and them doing the same awful things they've been doing throughout his entire tenure.
Coming off a 9-17 season at his previous school a somewhat successful college coach then went 38-47 in his first 3 years at his current school. If you were the AD at that school, I am guessing that guy never sees his fourth year.
You're referring to Coach K. Different times, WASJU.
Guess what, though? I, once heard him on a radio show years ago talking about he knew he had to win that fourth season because he probably was gonna get fired. He likely bought himself a 4th year because he had a fairly, good first season (made it to the 3rd round of the NIT), and he had a terrific recruiting class the year before that was gonna be sophomore's (Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas, and David Henderson) during his 4th season, and a one of the top point freshman point guards coming in that season (Tommy Amaker).
He won that fourth season, and has never turned back. In his own words, it was (paraphrased) a "MUST win" season, and he came through.
The Coach K analogy is brought out every time we have a coaching change and we are still in year 3 complaining. It's old and it has to stop. totally different time, no social media, no 24 hour sports stations etc. Doesn't work that way anymore.
We get it if Duke had fired him after year 3 history would have changed. I can also give you dozens of examples of coaches who were kept after 3 years of bad or mediocre coaching and guess what? They were still bad/mediocre coaches long after that.
Stop. He is not getting fired we get it. Let's just ride this out and see how it works out. But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
No one is guaranteeing anything. This season is lost. People are going to start threads about how terrible he is after every loss. What is the point. If we stink next year start the complaining again. No one will be able to counter argue it. And you are the same guy arguing that you can't say Ewing will be a good coach until 3 years from now. You really do just argue to argue w/o a point or reason.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been an a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
I thought we looked good for the most part early in the season. Team really only had two scorers and no depth. Ponds very good player but an overated shooter and lost Lovett. Tough to look good that way. Again lack of depth and roster construction is on Mullin. Just saying that no coach was going to look great with roster that Mullin and Teflon Matt put together.
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But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
Since those who recommend hiring an up and comer like Hurley can't guarantee 30 years of success either I await you chastisement of them.
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But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
Since those who recommend hiring an up and comer like Hurley can't guarantee 30 years of success either I await you chastisement of them.
Used the exact opposite argument when people were praising Ewing.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been an a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
I thought we looked good for the most part early in the season. Team really only had two scorers and no depth. Ponds very good player but an overated shooter and lost Lovett. Tough to look good that way. Again lack of depth and roster construction is on Mullin. Just saying that no coach was going to look great with roster that Mullin and Teflon Matt put together.
I thought we looked damn good versus Nebraska, and alright in a couple of other games. We played well for about 25 minutes versus Mizzou (during the latter part of the first half and during the early-to-middle part of the second half). I didn't see the Arizona State game, but I assumed we played well in spots. Other than that, per our OOC schedule, it's been kinda "meh" for me.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
If change coach can't guarantee everyone on team an incoming guys would stay. That was my point if this was referring to me.
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But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
Since those who recommend hiring an up and comer like Hurley can't guarantee 30 years of success either I await you chastisement of them.
Used the exact opposite argument when people were praising Ewing.
Frankly, I wouldn't praise Ewing either. He hasn't done anything. He's played the worst schedule in the last 13 years and, although his team played Butler tough (at home) and stayed within 8 or 9 versus Marquette (on the road), they've only shown they can beat teams on their level or worse.
He does seem more involved than Mullin, as I believed you've stated a few times. Other than that, I can't say whether he'll be a good, mediocre or poor coach. I don't know yet. Until, he shows me something, then I'm not particularly sold on him.
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But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
Since those who recommend hiring an up and comer like Hurley can't guarantee 30 years of success either I await you chastisement of them.
What? I said earlier there is no magic formula.
I also said I have no objections to giving him a 4th year just I no longer will defend all of his decisions as generally good, I will be much more skeptical. Meaning he no longer gets the benefit of the doubt at least not from me.
My only point with Coach K is if you are going to argue for more time and patience do it without that analogy. That is cheap and lazy and can be easily dismidsed.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops. There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning. If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.
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But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
Since those who recommend hiring an up and comer like Hurley can't guarantee 30 years of success either I await you chastisement of them.
What? I said earlier there is no magic formula.
I also said I have no objections to giving him a 4th year just I no longer will defend all of his decisions as generally good, I will be much more skeptical. Meaning he no longer gets the benefit of the doubt at least not from me.
My only point with Coach K is if you are going to argue for more time and patience do it without that analogy. That is cheap and lazy and can be easily dismidsed.
All anecdotal evidence can be dismissed was my only point. Coach K is not a good example because he's a diabolical genius. It's like saying if you want to be an inventor you should drop out of elementary school because that's how Edison did it.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops. There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning. If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.
Spot on. Nor should it come as any surprise as another posted pointed out how many defections there have been under the Mullin regime.
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But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
Since those who recommend hiring an up and comer like Hurley can't guarantee 30 years of success either I await you chastisement of them.
What? I said earlier there is no magic formula.
I also said I have no objections to giving him a 4th year just I no longer will defend all of his decisions as generally good, I will be much more skeptical. Meaning he no longer gets the benefit of the doubt at least not from me.
My only point with Coach K is if you are going to argue for more time and patience do it without that analogy. That is cheap and lazy and can be easily dismidsed.
All anecdotal evidence can be dismissed was my only point. Coach K is not a good example because he's a diabolical genius. It's like saying if you want to be an inventor you should drop out of elementary school because that's how Edison did it.
Point taken.
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But unless you can guarantee me that after this year we are on a 30 year run like Duke has had, which you obviously cannot guarantee, then please stop mentioning the Coach K situation.
Since those who recommend hiring an up and comer like Hurley can't guarantee 30 years of success either I await you chastisement of them.
What? I said earlier there is no magic formula.
I also said I have no objections to giving him a 4th year just I no longer will defend all of his decisions as generally good, I will be much more skeptical. Meaning he no longer gets the benefit of the doubt at least not from me.
My only point with Coach K is if you are going to argue for more time and patience do it without that analogy. That is cheap and lazy and can be easily dismidsed.
So far he has been terrible. I am not arguing that. I am also, no matter what happens not going to be someone that posts Fire Mullin. That is just me though and I understand that is not realistic. My point is yes it has been rough and yes we are going to finish terribly but we all know this. Give him next year which was always going to be his make or break year anyway. Posting how much he sucks after every loss is useless. And yes I did that exact same thing with Norm but the fact that he is Chris Mullin should give him as least as much good faith as people gave Norm.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops. There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning. If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.
Obviously you don't have an answer to my question. If you're so certain someone will leave would you care to enlighten us as to who it might be? And no, I don't pay attention to college hoops. I stumbled on this forum for a mediocre to bad program a couple years ago and bored as I was decided I'd run with it and see how many threads I could derail.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops. There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning. If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.
Obviously you don't have an answer to my question. If you're so certain someone will leave would you care to enlighten us as to who it might be? And no, I don't pay attention to college hoops. I stumbled on this forum for a mediocre to bad program a couple years ago and bored as I was decided I'd run with it and see how many threads I could derail.
Because it's a dumb question that I can't answer. I don't know exactly who'll leave (and, if I did know and decided not to say so, then that's my prerogative). But, I do know how the college game works, and how kids do not like to be associated with losing and instability. Besides, when did I mention who I know or think will leave? I didn't say such, so stop with the fallacy. If you pay attention to college hoops, as you sarcastically stated, then don't act so dimwitted to what goes on in the game.
Even, if it is Yakwe and Trimble, as you mentioned.... Those are still defections. There will also likely be a "holding of hands," per se'.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops. There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning. If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.
Obviously you don't have an answer to my question. If you're so certain someone will leave would you care to enlighten us as to who it might be? And no, I don't pay attention to college hoops. I stumbled on this forum for a mediocre to bad program a couple years ago and bored as I was decided I'd run with it and see how many threads I could derail.
Because it's a dumb question that I can't answer. I don't know exactly who'll leave (and, if I did know and decided not to say so, then that's my prerogative). But, I do know how the college game works, and how kids do not like to be associated with losing and instability. Besides, when did I mention who I know or think will leave? I didn't say such, so stop with the fallacy. If you pay attention to college hoops, as you sarcastically stated, then don't act so dimwitted to what goes on in the game.
Even, if it is Yakwe and Trimble, as you mentioned.... Those are still defections. There will also likely be a "holding of hands," per se'.
Apologies for asking you to clarify a point you made in a previous post. I'll make sure to keep my mouth shut and let the adults talk from now on.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops. There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning. If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.
Spot on. Nor should it come as any surprise as another posted pointed out how many defections there have been under the Mullin regime.
How many defections of his own players have there been exactly. Mussini and Fredudenberg turned pro, Ellison and Sima transferred, and Williams graduated. Are we counting Lavins players, Jones, De La Rosa, Jordan and Obekpa? Oh and the all important walk on Holifield. I count two legitimate transfers. Lavin lost Polee, Stith, Q Roberts, Harkless, Lindsey, Garrett, Hooper and Sampson. Seems roughly equivalent.
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The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.
Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.
Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler. We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!
You're absolutely correct. I almost feel like at this point people are rooting against St. John's on this board so their over-the-top statements about Mullin/the program become correct.
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Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.
It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU. Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play. That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well. Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.
We also don't know who'll even be here next season. If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections. In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it. Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.
Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now. But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.
Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.
Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops. There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning. If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.
Spot on. Nor should it come as any surprise as another posted pointed out how many defections there have been under the Mullin regime.
How many defections of his own players have there been exactly. Mussini and Fredudenberg turned pro, Ellison and Sima transferred, and Williams graduated. Are we counting Lavins players, Jones, De La Rosa, Jordan and Obekpa? Oh and the all important walk on Holifield. I count two legitimate transfers. Lavin lost Polee, Stith, Q Roberts, Harkless, Lindsey, Garrett, Hooper and Sampson. Seems roughly equivalent.
If there is one thing I would give you credit for it is being accurate with facts. However your above post contains several inaccuracies. To say Williams graduated focuses on his academic standing, basketball eligibility wise in did in fact transfer to play for another school. Also you say Mussini and Freud turned pro seemingly making it sound like those don't count against Mullin while listing Harkless and Sampson as losses for Lavin. Please do not respond to this post because if you counter my assertions I guarantee I will not understand your argument. Thank you in advance for your consideration of this matter.
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If there is one thing I would give you credit for it is being accurate with facts. However your above post contains several inaccuracies. To say Williams graduated focuses on his academic standing, basketball eligibility wise in did in fact transfer to play for another school. Also you say Mussini and Freud turned pro seemingly making it sound like those don't count against Mullin while listing Harkless and Sampson as losses for Lavin. Please do not respond to this post because if you counter my assertions I guarantee I will not understand your argument. Thank you in advance for your consideration of this matter.
Sorry, I cannot oblige you.
I fairly represent facts fairly because I am not a post modernist: I believe there is a single universal truth. That is, there are things that having happened have happened. There is not, as nice persons like Oprah believe, various truths: there are no your truths, there is just truth. Interpretation of facts is another thing entirely. We are entitled to our own experiences. But to believe that subjective interpretation of reality comprises truth comprises insanity.
That said, Williams, a player having graduated leaving - and who was just this day dismissed to the team he went to play for - does not constitute a defection. Mullin's players who went pro offset Lavin's who also went pro. The small point I was making is that nothing unprecedented regarding the roster is going on. The larger point is that things are bad enough - and things are bad enough - without creating crisis where none exists.
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Mullin hating posting is the "vile and pernicious" work of sacrilegious, treasonous traitors.
Hollywood had two Ncaa and two Nit bids in five seasons. That is nothing short of a small miracle on Union and Utopia. People should come to praise Lavin, not bury him.
Finished an angstrom away from four of five Ncaa tournaments.
1) The 3'lo suspension season as was mentioned earlier in the thread and
2) One Max Hooper freeze up and no call under the basket at Alumni vs. Providence or one disconcerted D'lo free throw miss; or one Sampson foul on a three point chuck; or one overtime Thc induced brain rush turnover by Obepka at Barclays's against Penn State the following season.
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The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.
Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.
Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler. We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!
More or less agree with this. However, I had no issue moving on from Lavin - thought he was lazy and his heart wasn't in it - with the understanding that there was no slam dunk hire/silver bullet. This is clearly not an easy place to succeed otherwise someone would have figured it out over the last 25 yrs.
As someone who was critical of this hiring at the time it occurred I can still get behind the fact that Lavin did not have the heart in the job he did early. After the 2011 season he had cancer in 11 and 12. His dad died in the middle of the next season. And while I can't find any supporting information anywhere I distinctly remember hearing somewhere that he and his wife were having major issues around the time of the last season. So yeah, he seemed distracted and his recruiting appeared to suffer quite a bit the last couple years.
That said if they were going to let him go I was very much in favor of hiring a coach, not a symbol.
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Chris Mullin = Santa Claus for St. John’s fans over 50
If Mullin is Santa that makes Danny Hurley the tooth fairy.
Danny Hurley is dancing this year. Mullin won’t sniff the NIT in his 3rd year. Lavin for all of his shortcomings wasn’t just better than Mullin, he was much better.
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If there is one thing I would give you credit for it is being accurate with facts. However your above post contains several inaccuracies. To say Williams graduated focuses on his academic standing, basketball eligibility wise in did in fact transfer to play for another school. Also you say Mussini and Freud turned pro seemingly making it sound like those don't count against Mullin while listing Harkless and Sampson as losses for Lavin. Please do not respond to this post because if you counter my assertions I guarantee I will not understand your argument. Thank you in advance for your consideration of this matter.
Sorry, I cannot oblige you.
I fairly represent facts fairly because I am not a post modernist: I believe there is a single universal truth. That is, there are things that having happened have happened. There is not, as nice persons like Oprah believe, various truths: there are no your truths, there is just truth. Interpretation of facts is another thing entirely. We are entitled to our own experiences. But to believe that subjective interpretation of reality comprises truth comprises insanity.
That said, Williams, a player having graduated leaving - and who was just this day dismissed to the team he went to play for - does not constitute a defection. Mullin's players who went pro offset Lavin's who also went pro. The small point I was making is that nothing unprecedented regarding the roster is going on. The larger point is that things are bad enough - and things are bad enough - without creating crisis where none exists.
Truth: 8 and 33. You are what your record is.
Mullin should have some self respect and resign after the season so they can bring in a coach who knows what he’s doing.
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The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.
Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.
Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler. We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!
You're absolutely correct. I almost feel like at this point people are rooting against St. John's on this board so their over-the-top statements about Mullin/the program become correct.
No one is rooting against Mullin. He’s 0-6 in his 3rd year. He’s getting the respect he deserves. This is a former athlete with a tremendous ego - an ego big enough to think he can do a job without learning how to do it first. It’s time for him to look in the mirror.
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The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.
Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.
Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler. We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!
More or less agree with this. However, I had no issue moving on from Lavin - thought he was lazy and his heart wasn't in it - with the understanding that there was no slam dunk hire/silver bullet. This is clearly not an easy place to succeed otherwise someone would have figured it out over the last 25 yrs.
As someone who was critical of this hiring at the time it occurred I can still get behind the fact that Lavin did not have the heart in the job he did early. After the 2011 season he had cancer in 11 and 12. His dad died in the middle of the next season. And while I can't find any supporting information anywhere I distinctly remember hearing somewhere that he and his wife were having major issues around the time of the last season. So yeah, he seemed distracted and his recruiting appeared to suffer quite a bit the last couple years.
That said if they were going to let him go I was very much in favor of hiring a coach, not a symbol.
I think the artist formerly known as would have been a pretty cool hire.
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All I have to say about the talk of Mullin being fired.... What year did Jay Wright turn the corner with Nova?
Once you answer this. You'll see that we should give the guy another year at the very least. Nobody expected us to lose Lovett for the entire season. He's probably our most important piece to the puzzle because as good as Shamorie is, he's not really a point guard.
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All I have to say about the talk of Mullin being fired.... What year did Jay Wright turn the corner with Nova?
Once you answer this. You'll see that we should give the guy another year at the very least. Nobody expected us to lose Lovett for the entire season. He's probably our most important piece to the puzzle because as good as Shamorie is, he's not really a point guard.
Jay Wright started to catch some flak from fans during his 3rd season at Villanova, although he had taken 'em to the NIT during his first 3 years at 'Nova. It was imperative for him to make it to the dance during his 4th season, and he delivered (with a Sweet 16 appearance). We're not even going to the NIT, this season, which I think should've been done.
We'll probably lose Wednesday to Xavier, and if we lose to Georgetown again (gulp) on Saturday, then I'm gonna start to wonder where we'll get a Big East win. Now, you'd be staring a potential 0-fer in the Big East for this season. So, that'll make Mullin's 4th season an imperative year to make the NCAA's. Nothing short of it, IMO.