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1
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by Poison on Today at 01:57:02 AM »
Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Same guy who asked for a raise

Same guy who can't do anything else besides recruit.  A modern day Vinny Cerrato, he ain't.

But he went to St. John's, so he gets a pass. And a raise

I don't get this idea of "he gets a pass.." From who?  He is an assistant he works for and is chosen by the HC.  Again much like the argument of hiring an assistant, if you have a problem  with the staff than you have a problem with the HC and that who is ultimately the problem. 

Matt is supposedly known for his recruiting no? What he gets paid for. Where are the Big East players?

Biggest problem is Mullin. Not an assistant coach, or injuries, or recruiting or bad luck. He doesn’t have any business coaching at this level. He doesn’t need to improve. He needs to leave with some dignity before it gets really ugly.

In addition, he owes the University and the fans a sincere apology for wasting yet another year.
2
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by Marillac on Today at 01:36:08 AM »
Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Dixon is probably a good player but you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in a huge way. There have been a few guys pretty recently that scored a ton of points in a lower conference, transferred up and haven't really been good at that higher level. I hope he'll be a solid guy for us for 3 years but I have my reservations

How am I setting myself up for anything? I didn't even say what I expected out of him. As a former coach and someone that has been around college teams more than most, I look at things differently. You need depth and continuity to get to the level and consistency of a team like Xavier. You also need to cover all your bases before having stars even matter.

I think Dixon will be a good 8th or 9th guy. He's a great recruit to me because (1) his floor is pretty high given what he has shown in college already combined with his skills and shooting %s (2) he came here knowing we already had Ponds, Simon, and Lovett only a year ahead of him (3) we have leverage on him since no kid wants to sit out two years for two transfers and (4) he will help bring continuity with 3-4 years on the team.

You said he'd be a top 100 player in the class if they redid the rankings. That's probably wildly false and I took it to mean you will expect top 100 player type production from him. Maybe you didn't mean it but that's how it came across.

Sit-out transfers also gain the leverage back since they typically graduate after their 3rd year of eligibility, meaning they can transfer wherever as a grad transfer. This could all be moot anyway if the rules change to allow kids to transfer whenever without having to sit out

Based on merit I think he would have been top 100 after his freshman year. He probably gets bounced out after his redshirt year this season with other guys passing him by showing growth. There are always lot of busts in the original top 100 (Mo Diakate was once #52 and Yakwe was top 75).
3
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by Poison on Today at 01:33:24 AM »
I work and live near Davidson College in NC and occasionally go to games.  Not a fan, but just go for the basketball.

Went to the Davidson - St. Bonaventure game tonight.

What stood out to me after reflecting on St. John's all season is the difference in what a well coached basketball team looks like. Bob McKillop has a great program.  They play outstanding team ball.  Balls moves crisply, looking to find the man with the best look at the basket.  There were no noticeable attempts at trying to make ESPN highlight reel, isolation ball etc.   Team shot 43% from 3, 93% for FT line etc.    Even St. Bonaventure was well coached.  Sure some of these guys may be a step to slow or inch to short, but there were a few guys that clearly could cut it in "power conferences. 

On another note, for a 5K arena, Davidson's place is really nice, and seat backs throughout are a pleasure.   Couple this with a nice student section who was loud out of the gate.    Even St. Bonaventure had a strong fan base that seemed 200+ strong and they were loud from the whistle too.  I come up to NY for several St. John's games a year and this experience is night and day.   About the only thing better is the dance team and the better music.

For me, it's just clear we need to do better in all areas.... coaching, recruiting, fan base, investment in program or just face reality that this program is living 30+ years on the past.


Product first. Then fans. The casual fan considers STJ to be a trash bag program. The alumni could give a shit no matter what.
4
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by goredmen on Today at 01:29:35 AM »
Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Dixon is probably a good player but you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in a huge way. There have been a few guys pretty recently that scored a ton of points in a lower conference, transferred up and haven't really been good at that higher level. I hope he'll be a solid guy for us for 3 years but I have my reservations

How am I setting myself up for anything? I didn't even say what I expected out of him. As a former coach and someone that has been around college teams more than most, I look at things differently. You need depth and continuity to get to the level and consistency of a team like Xavier. You also need to cover all your bases before having stars even matter.

I think Dixon will be a good 8th or 9th guy. He's a great recruit to me because (1) his floor is pretty high given what he has shown in college already combined with his skills and shooting %s (2) he came here knowing we already had Ponds, Simon, and Lovett only a year ahead of him (3) we have leverage on him since no kid wants to sit out two years for two transfers and (4) he will help bring continuity with 3-4 years on the team.

You said he'd be a top 100 player in the class if they redid the rankings. That's probably wildly false and I took it to mean you will expect top 100 player type production from him. Maybe you didn't mean it but that's how it came across.

Sit-out transfers also gain the leverage back since they typically graduate after their 3rd year of eligibility, meaning they can transfer wherever as a grad transfer. This could all be moot anyway if the rules change to allow kids to transfer whenever without having to sit out
5
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by Marillac on Today at 01:24:44 AM »
Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Dixon is probably a good player but you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in a huge way. There have been a few guys pretty recently that scored a ton of points in a lower conference, transferred up and haven't really been good at that higher level. I hope he'll be a solid guy for us for 3 years but I have my reservations

How am I setting myself up for anything? I didn't even say what I expected out of him. As a former coach and someone that has been around college teams more than most, I look at things differently. You need depth and continuity to get to the level and consistency of a team like Xavier. You also need to cover all your bases before having stars even matter.

I think Dixon will be a good 8th or 9th guy. He's a great recruit to me because (1) his floor is pretty high given what he has shown in college already combined with his skills and shooting %s (2) he came here knowing we already had Ponds, Simon, and Lovett only a year ahead of him (3) we have leverage on him since no kid wants to sit out two years for two transfers and (4) he will help bring continuity with 3-4 years on the team.
6
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by goredmen on Today at 12:50:57 AM »
Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Dixon is probably a good player but you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in a huge way. There have been a few guys pretty recently that scored a ton of points in a lower conference, transferred up and haven't really been good at that higher level. I hope he'll be a solid guy for us for 3 years but I have my reservations
7
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by Marillac on Today at 12:11:11 AM »
Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.
8
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by Celtics11 on January 19, 2018, 11:17:58 PM »
I work and live near Davidson College in NC and occasionally go to games.  Not a fan, but just go for the basketball.

Went to the Davidson - St. Bonaventure game tonight.

What stood out to me after reflecting on St. John's all season is the difference in what a well coached basketball team looks like. Bob McKillop has a great program.  They play outstanding team ball.  Balls moves crisply, looking to find the man with the best look at the basket.  There were no noticeable attempts at trying to make ESPN highlight reel, isolation ball etc.   Team shot 43% from 3, 93% for FT line etc.    Even St. Bonaventure was well coached.  Sure some of these guys may be a step to slow or inch to short, but there were a few guys that clearly could cut it in "power conferences. 

On another note, for a 5K arena, Davidson's place is really nice, and seat backs throughout are a pleasure.   Couple this with a nice student section who was loud out of the gate.    Even St. Bonaventure had a strong fan base that seemed 200+ strong and they were loud from the whistle too.  I come up to NY for several St. John's games a year and this experience is night and day.   About the only thing better is the dance team and the better music.

For me, it's just clear we need to do better in all areas.... coaching, recruiting, fan base, investment in program or just face reality that this program is living 30+ years on the past.

Great post NC. Totally agree with your statement of appreciating what a well coached basketball team looks like. It's like Justice Potter Stewart said of trying to define the parameters of pornography when he wrote he may not be able to define it but he knows it when he sees it. After watching tons of basketball for over 50 years I know a well coached team when I see one. Even a few of the announcers who by and large never criticize coaches (think it was JT3 and Steve Lappas) pointed out in our last few games many poor things we were doing out on the court. In anticipation of any Foad corrections or criticisms Foad can go Foad himself.
9
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by Marco Baldi on January 19, 2018, 11:05:27 PM »
Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Same guy who asked for a raise

Same guy who can't do anything else besides recruit.  A modern day Vinny Cerrato, he ain't.

But he went to St. John's, so he gets a pass. And a raise

I don't get this idea of "he gets a pass.." From who?  He is an assistant he works for and is chosen by the HC.  Again much like the argument of hiring an assistant, if you have a problem  with the staff than you have a problem with the HC and that who is ultimately the problem. 

Matt is supposedly known for his recruiting no? What he gets paid for. Where are the Big East players?
10
In The Jungle... / Re: The Perfect Coach for ST John's
« Last post by RedStormNC on January 19, 2018, 10:42:49 PM »
I work and live near Davidson College in NC and occasionally go to games.  Not a fan, but just go for the basketball.

Went to the Davidson - St. Bonaventure game tonight.

What stood out to me after reflecting on St. John's all season is the difference in what a well coached basketball team looks like. Bob McKillop has a great program.  They play outstanding team ball.  Balls moves crisply, looking to find the man with the best look at the basket.  There were no noticeable attempts at trying to make ESPN highlight reel, isolation ball etc.   Team shot 43% from 3, 93% for FT line etc.    Even St. Bonaventure was well coached.  Sure some of these guys may be a step to slow or inch to short, but there were a few guys that clearly could cut it in "power conferences. 

On another note, for a 5K arena, Davidson's place is really nice, and seat backs throughout are a pleasure.   Couple this with a nice student section who was loud out of the gate.    Even St. Bonaventure had a strong fan base that seemed 200+ strong and they were loud from the whistle too.  I come up to NY for several St. John's games a year and this experience is night and day.   About the only thing better is the dance team and the better music.

For me, it's just clear we need to do better in all areas.... coaching, recruiting, fan base, investment in program or just face reality that this program is living 30+ years on the past.
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