Game #20 @Georgetown

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2018, 05:14:24 PM »
Just a quick question, can we stop calling this Year 3 for Mullin? Year 1 is null and void. He had no talent to work with and had to fill almost an entire team in less than 5 months. That 1st year should not be considered. As of right now, he is 24-27 and 7-17 in Conference Play with a Big East Tournament win. It's been an unfortunate year but it hasn't been a bad year. We've had two bad losses but I see no reason why it can't be turned around. We haven't been noncompetitive in any game this season except for one half against Providence.

It's Year 2 and while our record looks worse, our performance has been better overall.

I am with you but would like to add an addendum to pretending year one of Chris Mullin never happened. I would also like to pretend the following never happened:
Rocky V
Caddy Shack 2
Another 48 hours
Norm Roberts

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2018, 05:34:30 PM »
Just a quick question, can we stop calling this Year 3 for Mullin? Year 1 is null and void. He had no talent to work with and had to fill almost an entire team in less than 5 months. That 1st year should not be considered. As of right now, he is 24-27 and 7-17 in Conference Play with a Big East Tournament win. It's been an unfortunate year but it hasn't been a bad year. We've had two bad losses but I see no reason why it can't be turned around. We haven't been noncompetitive in any game this season except for one half against Providence.

It's Year 2 and while our record looks worse, our performance has been better overall.

I am with you but would like to add an addendum to pretending year one of Chris Mullin never happened. I would also like to pretend the following never happened:
Rocky V
Caddy Shack 2
Another 48 hours
Norm Roberts

The remake of Karate Kid

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2018, 09:48:45 PM »
I think I see why people think Patrick Ewing is going to be a great hire, if it weren't for his motivation Georgetown may have lost by 50 tonight.


I think what people said/think is, he's not as illogical a hire as Mullin because he has previous coaching experience, something many of us like in our coaches.  And he started off better than Mullin by constructing a well rounded and experienced staff, given that he had never coached at the college level before, something you can not say about a staff that included Greg St. Jean.  How that hire pans out, and even the Mullin hire though there's a bigger body of evidence to work with, is still TBD.   

Obviously the results suck, but Mullin was getting flak on these boards in first season when was supposed to be in Honeymoon phase. Don't you think if he would have acted more ''coachy" from the beginning it might have delayed some of the vitriol?
That and not losing to Aquinas by 33

Yes results have been bad, but I think he didn't help himself with the "optics". Or if George Blaney or at least some guy that looked like one of the old guys from the Muppets instead of ST Jean had been using the the dry board.
I was at that game. St. John’s shirt and hat on. Sitting in same row as his family. I was excited and happy to see Chris Mullin. I took pictures of him  and sent him to my friends. Bad optics is wearing an under armor sweatshirt under you suit jacket. Not taking charge and basically not doing anything with your team as they are getting smoked  by a division 2 team is not bad oPtics. Slice and Matt sat as statues. Mullin socialized. The boy tried to coach but he was overwhelmed.  Not a good 1st impression
Patrick seems to be trying his best. That is all a person can do. Was a huge Knick fan. I wish him well. Mullin in year 3 is better then day 1. Still don’t think he is capable or willing to put in the work to be a good coach. I have been done with this experiment for over 2 years. Our coach should have been more prepared and more self aware or he should have kept his mouth shut and we could have a real coach.
8-35. Lost the last 9 big east games.

Here is the one thing I will argue to the death. People who are hardworking throughout their whole life do not suddenly become lazy. Mullin was a self made basketball star. I doubt very much he took a job at the place that made him who he is and then decided to mail it in. He may not be able to coach and he certainly could have done things differently but I doubt any of this comes out of laziness.

I don't doubt how hardworking Mullin was his whole life to become the player that he was. However coaching is a totally different animal than any job Mullin ever had as a player or front office guy. It's especially hard to become a head coach at 50+ when you have never coached a day in your life especially at a high level like a Power 5 conf. I think Mullin may be lazy in the sense that as a high level head coach you need to be on the road recruiting and that's a real year round grind. He may have not really taken seriously how much of a commitment that was and it's just too much for him. Maybe, maybe not but this next 12 months will tell us a lot more in regards to how serious he is about this job.
B Mahoney was just not a competent basketball coach (record at Manhattan foretold this).  FF was an up and coming hungry young coach who self destructed. Replaced by Jarvis who thought he could run the program from the race track. Norm followed and he was just not competent enough to be a head coach (record at Queens College foretold this). Followed by Hollywood Lavin who thought he could run the program from Europe during his vacations and from NYC 5* restaurants. Mullin comes in with zero coaching experience. Excepting Mullin because he is still coaching at SJU not one of those coaches went on to let alone bigger and better things not even anything equal to the job poor job they did at St. John's (FF did decent job at NM). For those that say it is SJU that makes it impossible for coaches to do well rather than we just made poor hiring choices the track record says otherwise. I realize it seems hard to fathom you can make 6 straight post hires but never underestimate the incompetency of the powers that be at SJU to make the wrong choice. Reserve judgement on Mully until after next year. Mullin shortcoming are lack of experience and just maybe not being willing to put in the tremendous amount of work that it takes to rebuild a high level D1 program. Doesn't mean he doesn't work hard relatively speaking but maybe just not hard enough for what this position requires (after all he is 54 years old with a highly successful career already behind him). I finished my career at a job where many came late in their careers because it didn't take the tremendous amount of work their previous positions required. In short if things don't work out for Mully would hope our next coach is a young, hungry up and comer willing to basically devote that time of his life to St. John's basketball. That is all. (My longest post ever LOL).

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2018, 10:12:59 PM »
I think I see why people think Patrick Ewing is going to be a great hire, if it weren't for his motivation Georgetown may have lost by 50 tonight.


I think what people said/think is, he's not as illogical a hire as Mullin because he has previous coaching experience, something many of us like in our coaches.  And he started off better than Mullin by constructing a well rounded and experienced staff, given that he had never coached at the college level before, something you can not say about a staff that included Greg St. Jean.  How that hire pans out, and even the Mullin hire though there's a bigger body of evidence to work with, is still TBD.   

Obviously the results suck, but Mullin was getting flak on these boards in first season when was supposed to be in Honeymoon phase. Don't you think if he would have acted more ''coachy" from the beginning it might have delayed some of the vitriol?
That and not losing to Aquinas by 33

Yes results have been bad, but I think he didn't help himself with the "optics". Or if George Blaney or at least some guy that looked like one of the old guys from the Muppets instead of ST Jean had been using the the dry board.
I was at that game. St. John’s shirt and hat on. Sitting in same row as his family. I was excited and happy to see Chris Mullin. I took pictures of him  and sent him to my friends. Bad optics is wearing an under armor sweatshirt under you suit jacket. Not taking charge and basically not doing anything with your team as they are getting smoked  by a division 2 team is not bad oPtics. Slice and Matt sat as statues. Mullin socialized. The boy tried to coach but he was overwhelmed.  Not a good 1st impression
Patrick seems to be trying his best. That is all a person can do. Was a huge Knick fan. I wish him well. Mullin in year 3 is better then day 1. Still don’t think he is capable or willing to put in the work to be a good coach. I have been done with this experiment for over 2 years. Our coach should have been more prepared and more self aware or he should have kept his mouth shut and we could have a real coach.
8-35. Lost the last 9 big east games.

Here is the one thing I will argue to the death. People who are hardworking throughout their whole life do not suddenly become lazy. Mullin was a self made basketball star. I doubt very much he took a job at the place that made him who he is and then decided to mail it in. He may not be able to coach and he certainly could have done things differently but I doubt any of this comes out of laziness.

I don't doubt how hardworking Mullin was his whole life to become the player that he was. However coaching is a totally different animal than any job Mullin ever had as a player or front office guy. It's especially hard to become a head coach at 50+ when you have never coached a day in your life especially at a high level like a Power 5 conf. I think Mullin may be lazy in the sense that as a high level head coach you need to be on the road recruiting and that's a real year round grind. He may have not really taken seriously how much of a commitment that was and it's just too much for him. Maybe, maybe not but this next 12 months will tell us a lot more in regards to how serious he is about this job.
B Mahoney was just not a competent basketball coach (record at Manhattan foretold this).  FF was an up and coming hungry young coach who self destructed. Replaced by Jarvis who thought he could run the program from the race track. Norm followed and he was just not competent enough to be a head coach (record at Queens College foretold this). Followed by Hollywood Lavin who thought he could run the program from Europe during his vacations and from NYC 5* restaurants. Mullin comes in with zero coaching experience. Excepting Mullin because he is still coaching at SJU not one of those coaches went on to let alone bigger and better things not even anything equal to the job poor job they did at St. John's (FF did decent job at NM). For those that say it is SJU that makes it impossible for coaches to do well rather than we just made poor hiring choices the track record says otherwise. I realize it seems hard to fathom you can make 6 straight post hires but never underestimate the incompetency of the powers that be at SJU to make the wrong choice. Reserve judgement on Mully until after next year. Mullin shortcoming are lack of experience and just maybe not being willing to put in the tremendous amount of work that it takes to rebuild a high level D1 program. Doesn't mean he doesn't work hard relatively speaking but maybe just not hard enough for what this position requires (after all he is 54 years old with a highly successful career already behind him). I finished my career at a job where many came late in their careers because it didn't take the tremendous amount of work their previous positions required. In short if things don't work out for Mully would hope our next coach is a young, hungry up and comer willing to basically devote that time of his life to St. John's basketball. That is all. (My longest post ever LOL).

And probably your best.
Again I question whether that coach everyone is looking for exists let alone ST John's being able to  identify and hire him....But solid post nonetheless.

Poison

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2018, 12:14:11 AM »
I think I see why people think Patrick Ewing is going to be a great hire, if it weren't for his motivation Georgetown may have lost by 50 tonight.


I think what people said/think is, he's not as illogical a hire as Mullin because he has previous coaching experience, something many of us like in our coaches.  And he started off better than Mullin by constructing a well rounded and experienced staff, given that he had never coached at the college level before, something you can not say about a staff that included Greg St. Jean.  How that hire pans out, and even the Mullin hire though there's a bigger body of evidence to work with, is still TBD.   

Obviously the results suck, but Mullin was getting flak on these boards in first season when was supposed to be in Honeymoon phase. Don't you think if he would have acted more ''coachy" from the beginning it might have delayed some of the vitriol?
That and not losing to Aquinas by 33

Yes results have been bad, but I think he didn't help himself with the "optics". Or if George Blaney or at least some guy that looked like one of the old guys from the Muppets instead of ST Jean had been using the the dry board.
I was at that game. St. John’s shirt and hat on. Sitting in same row as his family. I was excited and happy to see Chris Mullin. I took pictures of him  and sent him to my friends. Bad optics is wearing an under armor sweatshirt under you suit jacket. Not taking charge and basically not doing anything with your team as they are getting smoked  by a division 2 team is not bad oPtics. Slice and Matt sat as statues. Mullin socialized. The boy tried to coach but he was overwhelmed.  Not a good 1st impression
Patrick seems to be trying his best. That is all a person can do. Was a huge Knick fan. I wish him well. Mullin in year 3 is better then day 1. Still don’t think he is capable or willing to put in the work to be a good coach. I have been done with this experiment for over 2 years. Our coach should have been more prepared and more self aware or he should have kept his mouth shut and we could have a real coach.
8-35. Lost the last 9 big east games.

Here is the one thing I will argue to the death. People who are hardworking throughout their whole life do not suddenly become lazy. Mullin was a self made basketball star. I doubt very much he took a job at the place that made him who he is and then decided to mail it in. He may not be able to coach and he certainly could have done things differently but I doubt any of this comes out of laziness.

I don't doubt how hardworking Mullin was his whole life to become the player that he was. However coaching is a totally different animal than any job Mullin ever had as a player or front office guy. It's especially hard to become a head coach at 50+ when you have never coached a day in your life especially at a high level like a Power 5 conf. I think Mullin may be lazy in the sense that as a high level head coach you need to be on the road recruiting and that's a real year round grind. He may have not really taken seriously how much of a commitment that was and it's just too much for him. Maybe, maybe not but this next 12 months will tell us a lot more in regards to how serious he is about this job.
B Mahoney was just not a competent basketball coach (record at Manhattan foretold this).  FF was an up and coming hungry young coach who self destructed. Replaced by Jarvis who thought he could run the program from the race track. Norm followed and he was just not competent enough to be a head coach (record at Queens College foretold this). Followed by Hollywood Lavin who thought he could run the program from Europe during his vacations and from NYC 5* restaurants. Mullin comes in with zero coaching experience. Excepting Mullin because he is still coaching at SJU not one of those coaches went on to let alone bigger and better things not even anything equal to the job poor job they did at St. John's (FF did decent job at NM). For those that say it is SJU that makes it impossible for coaches to do well rather than we just made poor hiring choices the track record says otherwise. I realize it seems hard to fathom you can make 6 straight post hires but never underestimate the incompetency of the powers that be at SJU to make the wrong choice. Reserve judgement on Mully until after next year. Mullin shortcoming are lack of experience and just maybe not being willing to put in the tremendous amount of work that it takes to rebuild a high level D1 program. Doesn't mean he doesn't work hard relatively speaking but maybe just not hard enough for what this position requires (after all he is 54 years old with a highly successful career already behind him). I finished my career at a job where many came late in their careers because it didn't take the tremendous amount of work their previous positions required. In short if things don't work out for Mully would hope our next coach is a young, hungry up and comer willing to basically devote that time of his life to St. John's basketball. That is all. (My longest post ever LOL).

St.John’s conference wins in coach’s 3rd season:

Brian Mahoney - 7
Fran Fraschilla - 13 (2nd season)
Mike Jarvis - 8
Norm Roberts - 7
Steve Lavin - 7
Chris Mullin - 0

The head coach with the lowest conference win total outside of Mullin was Norm Roberts. By comparison, Norm was a better coach. Everyone should think about that when they suggest Mullin be given more time.

And you know, if Jarvis wasn’t fired, for the 2004-2005 season he would have had this line up:

Ingram - PG
Hill - SG
Epperson - SF
Hosley - SF/PF
Hamilton - C

Not imposing, but Hosley would have been a 2nd team all BE. For all the talk of him not being interested in recruiting, the guy brought in better talent than Mullin.

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2018, 01:37:23 AM »
St.John’s conference wins in coach’s 3rd season:
Steve Lavin - 7

8

Foad

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2018, 07:23:47 AM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2018, 09:11:13 AM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.

With kids now you can't hit and can barely yell. The new thing is "positive reinforcement" at least that is what my wife keeps telling me when I yell. Thought I might try it in every facet of my life to see if it works.

TONYD3

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2018, 11:23:28 AM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2018, 11:32:45 AM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

For what?

ras

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2018, 11:43:25 AM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

For what?
To get confidence back, for recruiting, Need wins to turn trajectory around and for optics.

Foad

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2018, 11:44:47 AM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

Thinking that every game isn't a must win game is a loser's mentality. It's people like you thinking like that that have caused the decline of this program.

derk

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2018, 11:46:33 AM »
I think I see why people think Patrick Ewing is going to be a great hire, if it weren't for his motivation Georgetown may have lost by 50 tonight.


I think what people said/think is, he's not as illogical a hire as Mullin because he has previous coaching experience, something many of us like in our coaches.  And he started off better than Mullin by constructing a well rounded and experienced staff, given that he had never coached at the college level before, something you can not say about a staff that included Greg St. Jean.  How that hire pans out, and even the Mullin hire though there's a bigger body of evidence to work with, is still TBD.   

Obviously the results suck, but Mullin was getting flak on these boards in first season when was supposed to be in Honeymoon phase. Don't you think if he would have acted more ''coachy" from the beginning it might have delayed some of the vitriol?
That and not losing to Aquinas by 33

Yes results have been bad, but I think he didn't help himself with the "optics". Or if George Blaney or at least some guy that looked like one of the old guys from the Muppets instead of ST Jean had been using the the dry board.
I was at that game. St. John’s shirt and hat on. Sitting in same row as his family. I was excited and happy to see Chris Mullin. I took pictures of him  and sent him to my friends. Bad optics is wearing an under armor sweatshirt under you suit jacket. Not taking charge and basically not doing anything with your team as they are getting smoked  by a division 2 team is not bad oPtics. Slice and Matt sat as statues. Mullin socialized. The boy tried to coach but he was overwhelmed.  Not a good 1st impression
Patrick seems to be trying his best. That is all a person can do. Was a huge Knick fan. I wish him well. Mullin in year 3 is better then day 1. Still don’t think he is capable or willing to put in the work to be a good coach. I have been done with this experiment for over 2 years. Our coach should have been more prepared and more self aware or he should have kept his mouth shut and we could have a real coach.
8-35. Lost the last 9 big east games.

Here is the one thing I will argue to the death. People who are hardworking throughout their whole life do not suddenly become lazy. Mullin was a self made basketball star. I doubt very much he took a job at the place that made him who he is and then decided to mail it in. He may not be able to coach and he certainly could have done things differently but I doubt any of this comes out of laziness.

Not lazy. Maybe just The Peter Principle at work.

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2018, 11:58:33 AM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

For what?
To get confidence back, for recruiting, Need wins to turn trajectory around and for optics.

I guess 2-16 better than 1-17 or 0-18 for some. Makes no difference to me.
Like to see Ponds hit some jumpers, Clark rebound, Simon keep improving and Trimble be more involved. Mix things up not just hang out behind 3 point line.
To me the above much more important than winning 2 games as opposed to 1.

Foad

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2018, 12:06:41 PM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

For what?
To get confidence back, for recruiting, Need wins to turn trajectory around and for optics.

I guess 2-16 better than 1-17 or 0-18 for some. Makes no difference to me.
Like to see Ponds hit some jumpers, Clark rebound, Simon keep improving and Trimble be more involved. Mix things up not just hang out behind 3 point line.
To me the above much more important than winning 2 games as opposed to 1.

Trimble's growing on me.

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2018, 12:10:23 PM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

For what?
To get confidence back, for recruiting, Need wins to turn trajectory around and for optics.

I guess 2-16 better than 1-17 or 0-18 for some. Makes no difference to me.
Like to see Ponds hit some jumpers, Clark rebound, Simon keep improving and Trimble be more involved. Mix things up not just hang out behind 3 point line.
To me the above much more important than winning 2 games as opposed to 1.

Trimble's growing on me.

Yup, he should get some of Ahmed's minutes

QuanMan

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2018, 12:11:46 PM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

For what?
To get confidence back, for recruiting, Need wins to turn trajectory around and for optics.

I guess 2-16 better than 1-17 or 0-18 for some. Makes no difference to me.
Like to see Ponds hit some jumpers, Clark rebound, Simon keep improving and Trimble be more involved. Mix things up not just hang out behind 3 point line.
To me the above much more important than winning 2 games as opposed to 1.

Trimble's growing on me.

He's taken huge steps forward over the past two weeks. I've always seen why Mullin likes him, his shots are finally falling as he's adjusted to the pace. You can tell that there's talent there, like all freshmen he needed time, but he's getting more comfortable.

Tomorrow is going to be a war, I can't wait.
Section 3
Section 116

Marillac

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2018, 12:30:11 PM »
I think I see why people think Patrick Ewing is going to be a great hire, if it weren't for his motivation Georgetown may have lost by 50 tonight. 

Patrick looks impressive. I love Patrick. Hate Georgetown

This is incredibly premature. He narrowly beat us and DePaul and had the easiest non-conference schedule in d-1. He has arguably more talent than us and definitely has more quality players. Imagine if Mullin started of with a monster like Govan and a handful of juniors and seniors?
I understand that you are pot committed. But these excuses are getting old.

The point of my post is no one has any clue at this point either way.  There were people who literally are judging Ewing based on a few minutes of viewing him in a huddle and on the sideline and saying he seems to be more prepared than Mullin.  Just nonsense.

I am a Mullin guy. If you are going to look / act detached during TO's and in the huddle and you are unsuccessful as he has been it just adds to the criticism. Based of his won / loss record it is a fair criticism as is most anything when you lose this much.

No idea how things work at with Ewing but by looking more engaged he probably will buy himself more time than Mullin has.

Whatever that is just nonsense.  Base it on his shoe color.  You don't attend practices, huddles, you have zero connection to Georgetown and they have done nothing this year yet you want to say these stupid things.  I don't care. 

You really are an annoying little guy. You argue both sides of every point.
There has been probably 1,000 posts about Mullin's sideline demeanor, dry board, sitting on tables, etc on these boards. Where both you and I are posting. None of what is said on these boards has any effect whatsoever on Chris Mullin in real life. People on these boards criticize Mullin for many things. Most unfortunately deserved at this point. If he had looked more involved it would have lessened the criticisms ON THESE BOARDS. That is a fact.
Now go ahead and tell me that no one could know anything until it actually happens.

You are like a bad penny.  The fact you feel the need to respond to every post is remarkable.

You are basically Baldi in an angry off putting way. You really come on here to argue with everyone. You bash people complaining about Mullin and defending Mullin. You really take no sides or have any agenda except being a troll. You were tolerable back in the day but now you are just an angry little guy. Like an old guy yelling at kids playing in the park to be quiet. 

He's an ass clown. Everyone has their rivals on this site, but he's universally detested by all.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 12:30:43 PM by Marillac »

Marillac

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Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2018, 12:32:18 PM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

For what?
To get confidence back, for recruiting, Need wins to turn trajectory around and for optics.

I guess 2-16 better than 1-17 or 0-18 for some. Makes no difference to me.
Like to see Ponds hit some jumpers, Clark rebound, Simon keep improving and Trimble be more involved. Mix things up not just hang out behind 3 point line.
To me the above much more important than winning 2 games as opposed to 1.

Trimble's growing on me.

He's the only one that plays a position. We need less Swiss Army knives and more structure.

Re: Game #20 @Georgetown
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2018, 12:38:56 PM »
And probably your best.

To be fair he's set the bar pretty low.
Foady - is Georgetown a must win?

For what?
To get confidence back, for recruiting, Need wins to turn trajectory around and for optics.

I guess 2-16 better than 1-17 or 0-18 for some. Makes no difference to me.
Like to see Ponds hit some jumpers, Clark rebound, Simon keep improving and Trimble be more involved. Mix things up not just hang out behind 3 point line.
To me the above much more important than winning 2 games as opposed to 1.

Trimble's growing on me.

Me too but still hangs out too much behind line. 43 of 49 shots have been 3's