6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => Recruiting Archives => Recruiting => 2018 Class => Topic started by: fordham96 on April 10, 2016, 08:30:19 PM
-
Adam Zagoria 48 seconds ago
2018 @Hudson_Bball G Luther Muhammad took an unofficial visit to St. John's today.
-
Nice to see. would be great to get some early commits for strong talent ..we've got a ways to go though.
http://247sports.com/Player/Luther-Muhammad-86036
Jeremy Schneider @J_Schneider 44m44 minutes ago
Hudson Catholic’s Luther Muhammad was indeed on an unofficial visit to St. John’s today. Called it “real good.” SHU recruiting him hard, too
-
Prime 18 SJU target
PIme Johnnies target in 18 class;
Zachary Lyon – @F150Zach
Iowa & St. John's are the latest to reach out to 2018 SportsU SG Luther Muhammad, he tells me. @Luther_FlyGuy
-
Luther Muhammad, 2018 SG (SportsU): Just a few weeks after getting back on the court after an injury, Muhammad is back to his usual ways. He was playing tough on-ball defense, slashing the lane, and finishing around the rim well on offense. Maryland, Ohio State, and Oregon State are the latest schools to show interest in Muhammad, and his list looks poised to expand over the last half of the summer.
https://future150.com/hs/basketball-news/uaa-finals-jahvon-quinerly-makes-his-case
-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_6ZyapeYYFE
-
Per Zags:
St. John's Chris Mullin and @mabde33 will be at @Hudson_Bball tomorrow for @Luther_FlyGuy
-
But among that lengthy list of potential destinations, St. John’s stands out amongst the masses. “They are one of the top three schools that are recruiting me the most,” Muhammed told RedStormReport.com. “I am very likely to go back to St. John’s [to visit.]”
https://stjohns.rivals.com/news/luther-muhammad-on-st-john-s
-
Four Schools Working Hardest for 2018 Guard Luther Muhammad http://www.zagsblog.com/2016/10/24/four-schools-working-hardest-2018-guard-luther-muhammad/ …
-
Like SJU's chances with this kid.
-
Like SJU's chances with this kid.
Agree. Actually I will be very surprised if he is not a Johnny. Matt has spent a ton of time recruiting him. We'll see.
-
Does anybody know if Mitch Richmond been out recruiting
-
Does anybody know if Mitch Richmond been out recruiting
Mitch knows
-
See even if I ask just a question I get some wise ass response - you are a funny guy - treat me with the sane respect you treat everybody else.
I should have ask Zack in the first place that is where you get all your inside information.
-
Z-A-C-H
-
Zach Braziller – Verified account @NYPost_Brazille
St John's making stops at Molloy for Brown/Anthony/Moore and Hudson Catholic for top target Luther Muhammad today. #sjubb
-
Zach Braziller – Verified account @NYPost_Brazille
Luther Muhammad @Luther_FlyGuy tells me he will be at St. John's-Seton Hall Sunday. Top target for both schools. #sjubb #shbb
-
Went in depth with scout.com on 4 schools he is closely looking at: SJU, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Xavier:
St. John’s has been recruiting Muhammad as long as anybody, and about the Red Storm, he said, “They run a three out offense with a lot of freedom. St. John’s just lets you go, and Coach (Chris) Mullin is willing to let you make mistakes and play through things which I like.”
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1756707-muhammad-talks-top-schools
-
Went in depth with scout.com on 4 schools he is closely looking at: SJU, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Xavier:
St. John’s has been recruiting Muhammad as long as anybody, and about the Red Storm, he said, “They run a three out offense with a lot of freedom. St. John’s just lets you go, and Coach (Chris) Mullin is willing to let you make mistakes and play through things which I like.”
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1756707-muhammad-talks-top-schools
We make a ton of mistakes. Great to see that someone finally appreciates it.
-
Went in depth with scout.com on 4 schools he is closely looking at: SJU, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Xavier:
St. John’s has been recruiting Muhammad as long as anybody, and about the Red Storm, he said, “They run a three out offense with a lot of freedom. St. John’s just lets you go, and Coach (Chris) Mullin is willing to let you make mistakes and play through things which I like.”
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1756707-muhammad-talks-top-schools
We make a ton of mistakes. Great to see that someone finally appreciates it.
So the key all the way was to MAKE mistakes. Who knew !
-
Went in depth with scout.com on 4 schools he is closely looking at: SJU, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Xavier:
St. John’s has been recruiting Muhammad as long as anybody, and about the Red Storm, he said, “They run a three out offense with a lot of freedom. St. John’s just lets you go, and Coach (Chris) Mullin is willing to let you make mistakes and play through things which I like.”
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1756707-muhammad-talks-top-schools
Strong schools we are competing against but at least no Kentucky, Duke, Kansas. etc. I seem to remember a few people saying the ship had sailed with him a couple months back. Do we have a shot here? I think a strong start to next season is essential to grabbing some of these top '18 kids.
-
Per Zagoria
Correction: St. John's will go 4 deep tonight W/ Chris Mullin and 3 assistants for 2018 @Hudson_Bball SG @Ege_Luther
-
Per Zagoria
Correction: St. John's will go 4 deep tonight W/ Chris Mullin and 3 assistants for 2018 @Hudson_Bball SG @Ege_Luther
Would you say we are higher on him than Jahvon Quinerly?
-
Per Zagoria
Correction: St. John's will go 4 deep tonight W/ Chris Mullin and 3 assistants for 2018 @Hudson_Bball SG @Ege_Luther
Would you say we are higher on him than Jahvon Quinerly?
Better stated perhaps, LM is higher on SJU than Quinerly is.
-
Yup. Though nice to have 4 deep for the kid. Perhaps this is the leading up to the "closing" pitch.
-
Yup. Though nice to have 4 deep for the kid. Perhaps this is the leading up to the "closing" pitch.
Don't anything about Luther but would make sense that they think they are very much in the running and want to seal the deal. All 4 coaches at your game is pretty meaningful. They must really value him and want to close the deal.
-
ND coming on hard here. SJU needs to wrap it up before he goes to ND or elsewhere new for visits
-
ND coming on hard here. SJU needs to wrap it up before he goes to ND or elsewhere new for visits
There is a reason the CEO is going tonight with the entire staff.
-
ND coming on hard here. SJU needs to wrap it up before he goes to ND or elsewhere new for visits
There is a reason the CEO is going tonight with the entire staff.
To be there when the kid says "I'm going to St. John's" or because the sense is he's slipping away?
-
ND coming on hard here. SJU needs to wrap it up before he goes to ND or elsewhere new for visits
There is a reason the CEO is going tonight with the entire staff.
To be there when the kid says "I'm going to St. John's" or because the sense is he's slipping away?
He's not slipping away.
-
ND coming on hard here. SJU needs to wrap it up before he goes to ND or elsewhere new for visits
There is a reason the CEO is going tonight with the entire staff.
To be there when the kid says "I'm going to St. John's" or because the sense is he's slipping away?
He's not slipping away.
Sweet, thanks
-
Kid would be an amazing pickup for us. Could help us with some of his aau teammates too maybe? Things I loved from the numerous videos of him are his solid build and height, his truly ambidextrous handle when going to the hole, and his ability to grasp inside/outside game. Hope we can grab him and then keep going with this class.
-
http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/-596313867135441543/queen-of-peace-36-at-hudson-catholic-99-njsiaa-tournament-quarterfinal-round-non-public-north-jersey-b-boys-basketball/
-
St John's assistant Matt Abdelmassih back at Hudson Catholic for top junior target Luther Muhammad #sjubb
Per Zach B
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria: St. John's @mabde33 will see 2018 G @Ege_Luther tonight at the @Hudson_Bball - @patrickschool game
-
Want this kid bad. Just watching videos and reading up on him he seems like the real deal. Glad to seem Matt and staff going hard for him. It's seems like they have seen him every week for the last month which is awesome.
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria: St. John's @mabde33 will see 2018 G @Ege_Luther tonight at the @Hudson_Bball - @patrickschool game
Luther against Mike Rice. Hopefully both are in SJU gear in the next couple years
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria: St. John's @mabde33 will see 2018 G @Ege_Luther tonight at the @Hudson_Bball - @patrickschool game
Luther against Mike Rice. Hopefully both are in SJU gear in the next couple years
Yes sir
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria: St. John's @mabde33 will see 2018 G @Ege_Luther tonight at the @Hudson_Bball - @patrickschool game
Luther against Mike Rice. Hopefully both are in SJU gear in the next couple years
Yes sir
Sir Yes Sir!
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria: St. John's @mabde33 will see 2018 G @Ege_Luther tonight at the @Hudson_Bball - @patrickschool game
Luther against Mike Rice. Hopefully both are in SJU gear in the next couple years
Yes sir
Mike Rice is apparently getting a look from Quinnipiac.
-
Earn your raise Abs, let's lock Luther up in the Spring Signing period (April 12-May 17).
-
Earn your raise Abs, let's lock Luther up in the Spring Signing period (April 12-May 17).
The spring signing period is for the class of 2017. He is in the class of 2018.
-
Earn your raise Abs, let's lock Luther up in the Spring Signing period (April 12-May 17).
The spring signing period is for the class of 2017. He is in the class of 2018.
When is the early signing period for '18?
-
Earn your raise Abs, let's lock Luther up in the Spring Signing period (April 12-May 17).
The spring signing period is for the class of 2017. He is in the class of 2018.
When is the early signing period for '18?
November
-
We can only get a verbal pledge? I didn't know that signing periods are limited to a graduating class. Can't kids sign before their senior year?
-
We can only get a verbal pledge? I didn't know that signing periods are limited to a graduating class. Can't kids sign before their senior year?
Nope. They can't sign til their senior year.
-
We can only get a verbal pledge? I didn't know that signing periods are limited to a graduating class. Can't kids sign before their senior year?
Nope.
So sometimes you don't want to take a verbal pledge early only for him to decommit at a later date. Want your guys to be totally sure and locked in.
Luther is a solid lean at this point.
-
We can only get a verbal pledge? I didn't know that signing periods are limited to a graduating class. Can't kids sign before their senior year?
Nope.
So sometimes you don't want to take a verbal pledge early only for him to decommit at a later date. Want your guys to be totally sure and locked in.
Luther is a solid lean at this point.
I would assume that changes if Matt leaves, right?
-
We can only get a verbal pledge? I didn't know that signing periods are limited to a graduating class. Can't kids sign before their senior year?
Nope.
So sometimes you don't want to take a verbal pledge early only for him to decommit at a later date. Want your guys to be totally sure and locked in.
Luther is a solid lean at this point.
I would assume that changes if Matt leaves, right?
I can't say with certainty but relationship is rooted with him.
-
We can only get a verbal pledge? I didn't know that signing periods are limited to a graduating class. Can't kids sign before their senior year?
Nope.
So sometimes you don't want to take a verbal pledge early only for him to decommit at a later date. Want your guys to be totally sure and locked in.
Luther is a solid lean at this point.
I would assume that changes if Matt leaves, right?
I can't say with certainty but relationship is rooted with him.
Thanks Dave.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GIdo8j1Jsc&feature=youtu.be
Fellas, for those of you concerned with Moses Brown flirting w the blue bloods, I say good riddance. All attention should be paid to who we've originally been invested with, Naz Reid. Having seen Moses Brown in person, there is literally NO CONTEST when comparing the two. Naz Reid is head and shoulders better, tougher, more well rounded than Moses Brown. Really hoping Abs lands him and Luther.
.
That's what we are all hoping for...
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria 4h
Luther Muhammad Talks Upcoming Notre Dame Visit http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/04/22/luther-muhammad-talks-upcoming-notre-dame-visit/ … via @adamzagoria
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria 4h
Luther Muhammad Talks Upcoming Notre Dame Visit http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/04/22/luther-muhammad-talks-upcoming-notre-dame-visit/ … via @adamzagoria
Cut list in summer and commit next fall? 😭
-
Recaps his recent in home with SJU staff.
https://stjohns.rivals.com/news/top-2018-target-recaps-st-john-s-in-home-visit
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria 4h
Luther Muhammad Talks Upcoming Notre Dame Visit http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/04/22/luther-muhammad-talks-upcoming-notre-dame-visit/ … via @adamzagoria
Per Zags -
2018 SG Luther Muhammad Visits Notre Dame Today zagsblog.com/2017/04/22/lut… via @adamzagoria
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria 4h
Luther Muhammad Talks Upcoming Notre Dame Visit http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/04/22/luther-muhammad-talks-upcoming-notre-dame-visit/ … via @adamzagoria
Per Zags -
2018 SG Luther Muhammad Visits Notre Dame Today zagsblog.com/2017/04/22/lut… via @adamzagoria
He's in Indianapolis this weekend with his AAU team for the upcoming Under Armour event, so makes sense for him to stop by South Bend.
-
Recaps his recent in home with SJU staff.
https://stjohns.rivals.com/news/top-2018-target-recaps-st-john-s-in-home-visit
Can someone paste this article?
-
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria 4h
Luther Muhammad Talks Upcoming Notre Dame Visit http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/04/22/luther-muhammad-talks-upcoming-notre-dame-visit/ … via @adamzagoria
Per Zags -
2018 SG Luther Muhammad Visits Notre Dame Today zagsblog.com/2017/04/22/lut… via @adamzagoria
He's in Indianapolis this weekend with his AAU team for the upcoming Under Armour event, so makes sense for him to stop by South Bend.
That's a 2.5 hour long, boring, farm filled drive.
-
Tom Noie @tnoieNDI
AM RT: Headed to Indiana for AAU weekend, Hudson Catholic (N.J.) guard Luther Muhammad has side trip to #NotreDame. (link: http://tinyurl.com/n8fz7vp) tinyurl.com/n8fz7vp
-
ND just got a commitment from Prentice Hubb, a top 50 point guard class of 2018. Hopefully that helps to eliminate them from consideration for Luther, although ND has had success with using 2 point guards in the same lineup
-
ND just got a commitment from Prentice Hubb, a top 50 point guard class of 2018. Hopefully that helps to eliminate them from consideration for Luther, although ND has had success with using 2 point guards in the same lineup
Thought Luther is more of a two despite title of this thread.
-
ND just got a commitment from Prentice Hubb, a top 50 point guard class of 2018. Hopefully that helps to eliminate them from consideration for Luther, although ND has had success with using 2 point guards in the same lineup
I'm told it does impact Luther.
-
ND just got a commitment from Prentice Hubb, a top 50 point guard class of 2018. Hopefully that helps to eliminate them from consideration for Luther, although ND has had success with using 2 point guards in the same lineup
I'm told it does impact Luther.
I know he visited there, was that our biggest competitor for his services?
-
ND just got a commitment from Prentice Hubb, a top 50 point guard class of 2018. Hopefully that helps to eliminate them from consideration for Luther, although ND has had success with using 2 point guards in the same lineup
I'm told it does impact Luther.
I know he visited there, was that our biggest competitor for his services?
He was leaning to ND from what I heard (not from a recruiting service) last week. Hopefully Fordham is right
-
Visiting Butler end of June.
https://twitter.com/ASlater247/status/871036003632295936
-
Corey Evans @coreyevans_10
Luther Muhammad shines day one at the @PangosAACamp as he sets his first official visit for the end of June (link: https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/luther-muhammad-sets-his-first-official-visit) basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/luther-mu…
-
Sense Notre Dame has really came on in this one
-
Sense Notre Dame has really came on in this one
Been saying that for months for a reason. He loves Bray and Humphrey
-
Sense Notre Dame has really came on in this one
Been saying that for months for a reason. He loves Bray and Humphrey
He likes Coach M and Coach A as well. SJU is right there.
-
Hope playing close to home in front of family and friends is an important factor for this kid. He will be coming into a good back court situation with Ponds as a junior, Simon as a junior, and Dixon as a sophomore (figure Lovett and Mussini gone after next year), at minimum. There will be PT opportunities but room to grow without the pressure of being the man from day one.
-
Also perhaps Coach Mitch has an impact here
Sense Notre Dame has really came on in this one
Been saying that for months for a reason. He loves Bray and Humphrey
He likes Coach M and Coach A as well. SJU is right there.
-
Sense Notre Dame has really came on in this one
Been saying that for months for a reason. He loves Bray and Humphrey
He likes Coach M and Coach A as well. SJU is right there.
No doubt
-
Official visit set for 6/23:
http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/06/06/luther-muhammad-sets-officials-st-johns-butler/
-
Interesting he's transitioning to PG too. Wouldn't be surprised if Mullin brings Mark Jackson around for his visit. Jackson credits Mullin a lot with helping him get to NBA and stay there.
-
Per Zagoria
2018 SG @Ege_Luther won't take his scheduled official to Butler in late June following the coaching change. Visits @StJohnsBBall June 23-25
-
Per Zagoria
2018 SG @Ege_Luther won't take his scheduled official to Butler in late June following the coaching change. Visits @StJohnsBBall June 23-25
It certainly can't hurt...
-
Per Zagoria
2018 SG @Ege_Luther won't take his scheduled official to Butler in late June following the coaching change. Visits @StJohnsBBall June 23-25
It certainly can't hurt...
It can if he likes Holtmann a lot and he has already mentioned visiting Ohio St. since the coaching change.
-
Interesting he's transitioning to PG too. Wouldn't be surprised if Mullin brings Mark Jackson around for his visit. Jackson credits Mullin a lot with helping him get to NBA and stay there.
Point guard ain't made. Point guard is born.
-
Per Zach B, Luther will be at SJU Elite Camp later this month prior to his official visit.
-
Ohio St offers Muhammad:
Pat Lawless
Luther Muhammad, a class of 2018 guard playing for @NYRhoops, just picked up an offer from Ohio State.
-
Andrew Slater @ASlater247
4⭐️Luther Muhammad @Ege_Luther of @HCHawkNationBSK & @NYRhoops cited Ohio St., St.John's & Notre Dame as 3 standouts (link: http://247sports.com/Player/Luther-Muhammad-86036) 247sports.com/Player/Luther-…
-
Not that it matters but I thought this young man was a Top 100 player..
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true
-
Not that it matters but I thought this young man was a Top 100 player..
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true
Per Rivals (56), 247 Sports (58), and Scout (88), Muhammad is a top 100 player.
-
Not that it matters but I thought this young man was a Top 100 player..
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true
Per Rivals (56), 247 Sports (58), and Scout (88), Muhammad is a top 100 player.
And per dink?
-
I'm impressed DePaul has one of the 2 early Big East too 100 commits. Depaul's recruit is too 50 acually. Luther easily top 60. Not sure why this list flubs...
-
Not that it matters but I thought this young man was a Top 100 player..
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true
Per Rivals (56), 247 Sports (58), and Scout (88), Muhammad is a top 100 player.
And per dink?
If you're asking me where do I think Muhammad stands as a top 100 player.... I can't answer it, as I've yet to see him play in a game. But, he's considered a top 100 player by most recruiting and scouting services, so I'll go with the masses who has seen him regularly play.
Mike Brey and his staff typically does a good job, per their scouting, so it could also be telling about Muhammad that they're also extremely interested in him. Don't forget Butler's previous staff, either.
-
Not that it matters but I thought this young man was a Top 100 player..
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true
ESPN saw him once during first weekend and he didn't play that well. I'm pretty sure he consensus everywhere else.
-
I'm impressed DePaul has one of the 2 early Big East too 100 commits. Depaul's recruit is too 50 acually. Luther easily top 60. Not sure why this list flubs...
I'm happy for DePaul landing Tyger Campbell because he'll help perception but I don't get the hype around him. Seen him a few times and reminds me of a lesser Jonathan Williams from VCU.
-
Note on that ESPN list both OSU ans ND (seemingly our two competitors for Mr. Muhammed's services) have top 100 SGs coming in for 2018. Maybe that's why Mr. M. is trying to convert to PG.
-
On the recruiting trail schools such as St. John's, Notre Dame, Seton Hall, Rutgers, Ohio State and others have all shown interest in Muhammad, and he has one visit upcoming.
"I only have one visit coming up, which is to St. John’s from June 23-25," said Muhammad.
About what he is hoping to see on that visit, Muhammad said, "I just want to see the campus and what it would be like to be in college there. As far as what they do with training and practice and everything."
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1786001-visit-upcoming-muhammad
-
On the recruiting trail schools such as St. John's, Notre Dame, Seton Hall, Rutgers, Ohio State and others have all shown interest in Muhammad, and he has one visit upcoming.
"I only have one visit coming up, which is to St. John’s from June 23-25," said Muhammad.
About what he is hoping to see on that visit, Muhammad said, "I just want to see the campus and what it would be like to be in college there. As far as what they do with training and practice and everything."
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1786001-visit-upcoming-muhammad
Kid has one visit coming up, which is US and his time frame for commitment is July-August. Time to close on him. The timing is ripe. We've been with him for the long haul. With Lovett and Ponds entering upperclassmen range and likely leaving after this year or next, the timing is right.
-
Not that it matters but I thought this young man was a Top 100 player..
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true
Per Rivals (56), 247 Sports (58), and Scout (88), Muhammad is a top 100 player.
And per dink?
If you're asking me where do I think Muhammad stands as a top 100 player.... I can't answer it, as I've yet to see him play in a game. But, he's considered a top 100 player by most recruiting and scouting services, so I'll go with the masses who has seen him regularly play.
Mike Brey and his staff typically does a good job, per their scouting, so it could also be telling about Muhammad that they're also extremely interested in him. Don't forget Butler's previous staff, either.
Just seeking your opinion on him as a player.
-
Not that it matters but I thought this young man was a Top 100 player..
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/order/true
Per Rivals (56), 247 Sports (58), and Scout (88), Muhammad is a top 100 player.
And per dink?
If you're asking me where do I think Muhammad stands as a top 100 player.... I can't answer it, as I've yet to see him play in a game. But, he's considered a top 100 player by most recruiting and scouting services, so I'll go with the masses who has seen him regularly play.
Mike Brey and his staff typically does a good job, per their scouting, so it could also be telling about Muhammad that they're also extremely interested in him. Don't forget Butler's previous staff, either.
Just seeking your opinion on him as a player.
+1
I figured that was your question. Appreciate you asking.
-
http://www.madehoops.com/news_article/show/805668?referrer_id=1272156
He has one official visit set for St. John’s in the next couple of days. Muhammad wants to see what they have to offer.
“Right now I only have one visit, which is St. John’s on June 23rd to the 25th,” Muhammad said. “I really want to see the campus and see the college life there. I want to see the program and what they do as far as practice, training, education and everything else.”
-
Born defender!
https://twitter.com/rivals/status/877590698903703552
-
Born defender!
https://twitter.com/rivals/status/877590698903703552
The high school version of Tony Allen is sweet music to my ears.
-
FWIW, ND just landed Robby Carmody, a 6'4'' SG out of PA. They already have Prentice Hubb, a 6'2'' combo guard out of Maryland.
-
FWIW, ND just landed Robby Carmody, a 6'4'' SG out of PA. They already have Prentice Hubb, a 6'2'' combo guard out of Maryland.
I had heard ND was fading with Luther. I really think it is SJU with possibly Ohio St as a darkhorse.
-
What a monster wknd for the program, our top recruiting priority for well over a year on his official. Lock Luther up staff, good luck!
-
What a monster wknd for the program, our top recruiting priority for well over a year on his official. Lock Luther up staff, good luck!
This is the time to do it.. ND I can't see an option any more. OSU with Holtmann? Not
Sure but change of school could be an issue. We've been with him for a long time and we will have PT at either guard spot as well... time to get it done!
-
Anyone know how the visit is going?
@mabde33: Beautiful morning on campus @StJohnsU Good vibes....#sjubb #newyorksteam https://t.co/9IhqvcezX5
-
ND still very much involved with Luther and interest in mutual. Recent commitments hasn't changed but I still feel he ends up at SJU
-
Positive vibes from both Abdelmassih and sju79. I'll take it for now...
-
Born defender!
https://twitter.com/rivals/status/877590698903703552
The high school version of Tony Allen is sweet music to my ears.
Yeah, I love reading that.
-
St. John's is looking to cash in on more local talent and Luther Muhammad fits the bill. One of the premier perimeter defenders in the class of 2018, the 6-foot-4 shooting guard made the short trip up from New Jersey for the weekend. The Red Storm have prioritized Muhammad and look to be in good position to this point. Notre Dame has made some noise as well and Muhammad had been planning to visit Butler, so Ohio State could make their way into the race after hiring Chris Holtmann.
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/starting-five-summer-visits-abound
-
Stud. Gotta work on that left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W---jWey-wc
-
Like our chances.
-
Like our chances.
Yes sir. My main worry is someone tries to jump in late...
-
Like our chances.
Yes sir. My main worry is someone tries to jump in late...
Main worry is that he is a bit overrated
-
Like our chances.
Yes sir. My main worry is someone tries to jump in late...
Main worry is that he is a bit overrated
Who's worry? Yours or others? I think. He probably underrated because he's one of the few guards that's actually plays and is an excellent defender. He's big, strong, good shooter with amazing work ethic from all I've heard.
-
Brey was on a couple of podcasts earlier this week and confirmed ND has 2 more spots to give and is focused on bigs. So Luther is now sju's to lose
-
Never know how these kids will turn out, but plenty of good programs seem to really like the kid
Like our chances.
Yes sir. My main worry is someone tries to jump in late...
Main worry is that he is a bit overrated
-
Love the avi Paultz. We gained two crystal ball predictions this afternoon from Jerry Meyer and Andrew Slater for those of you that don't know:
http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Luther-Muhammad-at-Hudson-Catholic-151276/CurrentExpertPredictions
-
I actually spoke to someone about three weeks ago, who felt strongly about us landing Muhammad.
Love the avi Paultz. We gained two crystal ball predictions this afternoon from Jerry Meyer and Andrew Slater for those of you that don't know:
http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Luther-Muhammad-at-Hudson-Catholic-151276/CurrentExpertPredictions
I don't really pay any attention to the 247's "Crystal Ball," but when Meyer and Slater has something to say, then folks should lend 'em an ear.
-
I actually spoke to someone about three weeks ago, who felt strongly about us landing Muhammad.
Love the avi Paultz. We gained two crystal ball predictions this afternoon from Jerry Meyer and Andrew Slater for those of you that don't know:
http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Luther-Muhammad-at-Hudson-Catholic-151276/CurrentExpertPredictions
I don't really pay any attention to the 247's "Crystal Ball," but when Meyer and Slater has something to say, then folks should lend 'em an ear.
Yes they in turn have ears and heard the words that Brey spoke. Simple as that
-
I actually spoke to someone about three weeks ago, who felt strongly about us landing Muhammad.
Love the avi Paultz. We gained two crystal ball predictions this afternoon from Jerry Meyer and Andrew Slater for those of you that don't know:
http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Luther-Muhammad-at-Hudson-Catholic-151276/CurrentExpertPredictions
I don't really pay any attention to the 247's "Crystal Ball," but when Meyer and Slater has something to say, then folks should lend 'em an ear.
Yes they in turn have ears and heard the words that Brey spoke. Simple as that
I just saw your recent post, and if Brey said such then they must be reading the tea leaves. Nevertheless, Meyer and Slater tends to have their ear(s) to the ground.
-
Luther will help momentum with Lewis and Antoine
-
Sounds more and more likely we will land Luther... would be a phenomenal pickup and hearing it could help with other studs even more encouraging. SJU recruiting looking strong moving forward.
-
ND just got another 4 star 2018 guard, fwiw
-
ND just got another 4 star 2018 guard, fwiw
Well if ND wasn't out before, they will be now. Several guards in last month or so. They're smart as the committed guy always better than the uncommitted guy. At this point, unless we see some Ohio State movement, we have to be in better than good shape.
-
ND just got another 4 star 2018 guard, fwiw
Well if ND wasn't out before, they will be now. Several guards in last month or so. They're smart as the committed guy always better than the uncommitted guy. At this point, unless we see some Ohio State movement, we have to be in better than good shape.
He could always add schools.
-
Just read he got an offer from Texas A&M
https://mobile.twitter.com/PatLawless_/status/882778187201224705?p=v
-
ND just got another 4 star 2018 guard, fwiw
Well if ND wasn't out before, they will be now. Several guards in last month or so. They're smart as the committed guy always better than the uncommitted guy. At this point, unless we see some Ohio State movement, we have to be in better than good shape.
He could always add schools.
Doubt it. He could have added schools all along.
-
ND just got another 4 star 2018 guard, fwiw
Well if ND wasn't out before, they will be now. Several guards in last month or so. They're smart as the committed guy always better than the uncommitted guy. At this point, unless we see some Ohio State movement, we have to be in better than good shape.
He could always add schools.
Doubt it. He could have added schools all along.
It's happened before. See above post for new offer. Not saying he is considering them but you never know. If we were truly his last option wouldn't he just commit? I'm sure he can have plenty of other options. Look I hope we get him but it's not like the process of elimination hasn't bit us in the arse before. Just when we look like the last one standing kid opens up recruitment to others.
-
ND just got another 4 star 2018 guard, fwiw
Well if ND wasn't out before, they will be now. Several guards in last month or so. They're smart as the committed guy always better than the uncommitted guy. At this point, unless we see some Ohio State movement, we have to be in better than good shape.
OSU just released a freshman guard from his schollie and parted ways another frosh. They only have 8 scholarship players and a walk on as of today. Luther doesnt help their situation this season but you have to think they want to get some recruiting momentum.
-
ND just got another 4 star 2018 guard, fwiw
Well if ND wasn't out before, they will be now. Several guards in last month or so. They're smart as the committed guy always better than the uncommitted guy. At this point, unless we see some Ohio State movement, we have to be in better than good shape.
He could always add schools.
Doubt it. He could have added schools all along.
It's happened before. See above post for new offer. Not saying he is considering them but you never know. If we were truly his last option wouldn't he just commit? I'm sure he can have plenty of other options. Look I hope we get him but it's not like the process of elimination hasn't bit us in the arse before. Just when we look like the last one standing kid opens up recruitment to others.
I just doubt it at this point. We've been recruiting him heavily for 2 years. His other favorite just landed 3 top notch guards. He has a relationship with Holtman, but I doubt he start adding schools. He had prior said he wants to commit this summer.
-
Zags says he will be visiting OSU....in the Fall.
-
Zags says he will be visiting OSU....in the Fall.
IF it gets that far... that's a long time from now.
-
Per Zags:
Syracuse 3 deep with Jim Boeheim for 2018 @NYRhoops G @Ege_Luther at the PIT
Seton Hall and St. John's also here.
-
Zags says he will be visiting OSU....in the Fall.
They probably will take him to a football game. I'm sure Holtmann will have fun using that in recruiting now.
Doesn't sound like we will get an early commitment from Luther or Little. I know nothing but obviously the longer these drag on the worse it would be for us, especially with Little since it's very hard to say no to the Dukes Kansases and Arizonas of the world for St. John's.
Sweating recruiting is brutal
-
http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/07/14/luther-muhammad-talks-st-johns-visit-upcoming-ohio-state-trip/
-
I don't like a trip to OSU in the fall to watch a football game. Especially since he already has a good relationship with the coach. As time goes on our chances will decrease.
-
http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/07/14/luther-muhammad-talks-st-johns-visit-upcoming-ohio-state-trip/
Smart kid. When asked about the fact that Mullin and Richmond played in the NBA he said at the end of the day it is about coaching and making people better. Hopefully he holds our coaches in high regard concerning those two considerations.
-
Julius Kim
@JKimElevate 4 Luther Muhammad tells me that he will take an official visit to #Xavier on 9/15-17. Plans to also visit Ohio State & Syracuse.
-
Zach B added this to the tweet about Muhammad scheduling a Xavier visit:
Zach Braziller
Verified account
@NYPost_Brazille 23m
Zach Braziller Retweeted Julius Kim
St John's expected this. Still very confident about chances #sjubb
-
Personally still doubtful those visits ever happen. They are months away if at all... I hope/think we can land him this August when he intended to commit....
-
If he surprisingly goes elsewhere, do we have a plan B at HS level in this class ?
-
I don't feel this goes into late Fall, end of September or very early October is my sense.
-
I don't feel this goes into late Fall, end of September or very early October is my sense.
Paultz just wondering why you say it won't go into the fall? has anything been said by his camp? just curious
-
I don't feel this goes into late Fall, end of September or very early October is my sense.
Paultz just wondering why you say it won't go into the fall? has anything been said by his camp? just curious
No, just what I hear.
-
Wanted to go to ND, sat on the shitter too long, now taking a look around to make sure that sjubb is the right fit. tO$U on a football weekend is dangerous for any recruit.
-
I think one of the big X factors with LM for SJU is his AAU coach. Coach Mullin is very close to the Alesi family.
Chirs Alesi's Father Jack was Mullin's CYO basketball coach @ St. Thomas Aquinas in Brooklyn and then his assistant coach at Xaverian... connections like those can only help...
-
True but he hasnt played for them for long. If it is the case hopefully it could help us with Kofi Cockburn
-
True but he hasnt played for them for long. If it is the case hopefully it could help us with Kofi Cockburn
Last year the reason we played exhibition against Baruch which is coached by one of Jack's boys. A little bit of payback to the family.
PS--Jack cut Chris from 6th grade CYO; only coach to do it.
-
http://elevatehoops.com/portfolio/luther-muhammad-goes-in-depth-on-st-johns-notre-dame/
Jumping to recruiting, he stated that he has an official visit set up to Xavier on September 15-17 and plans to visit Syracuse and Ohio State. He also broke down what has been going on and went into detail about St. John’s and Notre Dame.
St. John’s: “Basically come in ready to go… I know I say this every interview but come in from day one and being ready to go. They’re going to put me in a lot of ball screens, let me make reads. They got trust in me from day one to make the right reads, come off ball screens and basically play my A-game and be ready to work from day one.”
-
Rothstein -
My nickname for Luther Muhammad? Mr. Intangibles. Takes pride in doing the little things. Reminds me of former Notre Dame G Tory Jackson.
-
Luther Muhammad shined at Oladipo Skills Academy with his toughness and improved shot making ability. He was a vocal on both ends off the floor and showcased great leadership. Muhammad is an impressive playmaker and is hard to stop when attacking the lane. Ohio State, St. John’s, Notre Dame and Seton Hall are some of the schools recruiting Muhammad hard.
http://www.madehoops.com/news_article/show/817457?referrer_id=1934076Standouts
-
Luther Muhammad @Ege_Luther
Top 5 coming soon 😜
-
Said he was down to Final 4 a few days ago..Maybe he'll be up to Top Ten by weekend.. ;D
Luther Muhammad @Ege_Luther Jul 30
Final 4 😈🙏🏽
-
Final 5? I thought August was approaching Final 2 territory...
-
Just received a Virginia offer
-
Final 5? I thought August was approaching Final 2 territory...
If ND is part of that final 5, you will know the list of bogus
-
Cut it to 5, no ND
https://twitter.com/Ege_Luther/status/893644177283665920
-
Per his Twitter
West Virginia, UVA, Xavier, StJ & Ohio State his final five
-
Per his Twitter
West Virginia, UVA, Xavier, StJ & Ohio State his final five
Hoping he is a big city guy!
-
Steep comp. let's hope our being on this kid forever is a plus.
-
@AdamZagoria
Luther Muhammad will visit Xavier Sept. 15-17 and West Virginia Sept. 22-24. twitter.com/AdamZagoria/st…
-
We'll let's see, two schools with the word Virginia in it and 2 schools from Ohio...then the last school....
-
Hopefully Luther sees what's going on in Charlottesville and cuts his list to 4.
-
That's like when Landensberg was on campus doing a school visit and we had that active shooter and the campus on lockdown.
-
That's like when Landensberg was on campus doing a school visit and we had that active shooter and the campus on lockdown.
Think it was his decision day.
-
Hopefully Luther sees what's going on in Charlottesville and cuts his list to 4.
Not to mention Kent State. All we need are a couple more massacres and we're a lock.
-
Hopefully Luther sees what's going on in Charlottesville and cuts his list to 4.
Just because Trump supporters marched in Virginia doesn't mean they can't march in NY.
-
Ohio State continues to make up major ground with Elijah Weaver and Luther Muhammad, two Rivals150 guards in the 2018 class, and the Buckeyes should be in the top three for each.
Weaver, one of the top playmakers in his class, has set official visits to USC, Florida and Ohio State. His visit tour begins with a trip to Columbus on Sept. 8.
Muhammad is more of a scoring guard but is also one of the top defenders in his class. St. John’s was his perceived leader but after taking a visit to the Queens campus in June and not committing, the window is opening for another program to land Muhammad. He recently cut his list down to a group of five comprised of Xavier, Ohio State, St. John's, West Virginia and Virginia. He will make his own trip to Columbus on Sept. 1, and the Buckeyes should now be considered alongside the Red Storm as a favorite in his recruitment.
It seems unlikely that Ohio State will land both Weaver and Muhammad, but I would be shocked if the Buckeyes struck out on both.
https://twitter.com/ebosshoops/status/897472682710716417
-
Buzzkill
-
Ohio State continues to make up major ground with Elijah Weaver and Luther Muhammad, two Rivals150 guards in the 2018 class, and the Buckeyes should be in the top three for each.
Weaver, one of the top playmakers in his class, has set official visits to USC, Florida and Ohio State. His visit tour begins with a trip to Columbus on Sept. 8.
Muhammad is more of a scoring guard but is also one of the top defenders in his class. St. John’s was his perceived leader but after taking a visit to the Queens campus in June and not committing, the window is opening for another program to land Muhammad. He recently cut his list down to a group of five comprised of Xavier, Ohio State, St. John's, West Virginia and Virginia. He will make his own trip to Columbus on Sept. 1, and the Buckeyes should now be considered alongside the Red Storm as a favorite in his recruitment.
It seems unlikely that Ohio State will land both Weaver and Muhammad, but I would be shocked if the Buckeyes struck out on both.
https://twitter.com/ebosshoops/status/897472682710716417
He's thinking out loud, nothing of substance there.
-
Luther Muhammed's quote...
“That’s great, but at the end of the day you have to know how to coach and you gotta know how to make people better,” is repeating the mantra other coaches are putting in his ear.
It's a tough business for sure.
-
Early October will be fun
-
Early October will be fun
I don't know that "fun" is the right word. Let me know if you can still use fun after the announcement
-
Early October will be fun
I don't know that "fun" is the right word. Let me know if you can still use fun after the announcement
If I'm reading the Paultzman teal leaves correctly, the fun will be after the announcementS- plural.
-
Early October will be fun
I don't know that "fun" is the right word. Let me know if you can still use fun after the announcement
If I'm reading the Paultzman teal leaves correctly, the fun will be after the announcementS- plural.
Nah, I just expect Luther M to announce for Johnnies then. We'll see
-
Adam ZagoriaVerified account @AdamZagoria 3h3 hours ago
More
Officials for 2018 SG Luther Muhammad @Ege_Luther
Ohio state sept 8-10
Xavier sept 15-17
West va sept 22-24
I'm guessing that the staff will be stopping by Hudson Catholic a couple of times during the next 3-4 weeks. Timeline is aligning with Paultz' early October prediction pretty well.
-
Adam Zagoria@AdamZagoria:
The @StJohnsBBall staff will be at @rc_basketball today and then will see 2018 @Hudson_Bball SG @Ege_Luther Luther Muhammad
Zach Braziller @NYPost_Brazille:
Head coach Chris Mullin and assistants Matt Abdelmassih and Greg St Jean will see Luther Muhammad and Khalil Whitney today #sjubb
-
Adam ZagoriaVerified account @AdamZagoria 3h3 hours ago
More
Officials for 2018 SG Luther Muhammad @Ege_Luther
Ohio state sept 8-10
Xavier sept 15-17
West va sept 22-24
I'm guessing that the staff will be stopping by Hudson Catholic a couple of times during the next 3-4 weeks. Timeline is aligning with Paultz' early October prediction pretty well.
So any word on the OSU visit ?
-
Adam ZagoriaVerified account @AdamZagoria 3h3 hours ago
More
Officials for 2018 SG Luther Muhammad @Ege_Luther
Ohio state sept 8-10
Xavier sept 15-17
West va sept 22-24
I'm guessing that the staff will be stopping by Hudson Catholic a couple of times during the next 3-4 weeks. Timeline is aligning with Paultz' early October prediction pretty well.
So any word on the OSU visit ?
Most of these visits supposedly goes 'well.' He didn't commit, so nothing to really see here.
I also sense he'll commit to us, but Ohio State are probably our biggest competition.
-
Since the football team was dominated...hopefully that soured the mood enough
-
Yeah I don't think football is the best recruiting-sell anyway for most ball players. Msg a much better sell. Mainly though, staff has to sell themselves. I'm happy he didn't commit while there. Hopefully we land him and solidify a solid early class.
-
At the rate we are going w/only 5 home games at MSG, we won't be able to tout this
-
The problem is for SJU to make a profit we need to sell 10,000 seats per game. This has not been happening unless we play Duke, Georgetown or Villanova. We must start winning to get fans in the seats and then more games will be at MSG. Sell out carnsecca every game and more games will be at mSG.
-
http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20170908/hoops-amp-scoops--holtmann-talks-learning-ohio-state-in-advance-of-recruiting-weekend
http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20170907/ohio-state-mens-basketball--key-weekend-ahead-in-recruiting
-
Yeah I don't think football is the best recruiting-sell anyway for most ball players. Msg a much better sell. Mainly though, staff has to sell themselves. I'm happy he didn't commit while there. Hopefully we land him and solidify a solid early class.
MSG is such a great sell that recruits have been banging down our door the last 20 years. Let's hope Luther wants to stay close to home and buys into Mullins vision. Ultimately we are going to have to start winning to get the high caliber recruits. Don't have to be overnight, but must see improvement.
-
Andrew Slater
@ASlater247
St.John's just finished meeting with Top 50 Luther Muhammad @Ege_Luther #Sjubb http://247sports.com/Player/Luther-Muhammad-86036 … Visited Ohio St. last weekend
-
The problem is for SJU to make a profit we need to sell 10,000 seats per game. This has not been happening unless we play Duke, Georgetown or Villanova. We must start winning to get fans in the seats and then more games will be at MSG. Sell out carnsecca every game and more games will be at mSG.
IMHO we could get 15k in attendence in the garden if they charged reasonable ticket prices for BE games. $50 for lower bowl seats is pretty steep.
-
http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/09/12/luther-muhammad-st-johns-home-visit-ohio-state-official/
-
Fwiw, heard SJU remains in very good shape w Luther.
-
Fwiw, heard SJU remains in very good shape w Luther.
With all due respect we all know it aint worth much.
-
The problem is for SJU to make a profit we need to sell 10,000 seats per game. This has not been happening unless we play Duke, Georgetown or Villanova. We must start winning to get fans in the seats and then more games will be at MSG. Sell out carnsecca every game and more games will be at mSG.
IMHO we could get 15k in attendence in the garden if they charged reasonable ticket prices for BE games. $50 for lower bowl seats is pretty steep.
If the school was smart, they would start prices out low if purchased way in advance and then as a certain amount were purchased, slowly increase the price until demand was at capacity.
-
@AdamZagoria
Luther Muhammad will visit Xavier Sept. 15-17 and West Virginia Sept. 22-24. twitter.com/AdamZagoria/st…
Did Luther go to Xavier this past weekend?
If so, any news of it?
-
@AdamZagoria
Luther Muhammad will visit Xavier Sept. 15-17 and West Virginia Sept. 22-24. twitter.com/AdamZagoria/st…
Did Luther go to Xavier this past weekend?
If so, any news of it?
Yeah, he said he wanted to be a Musketeer.
-
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/hPGT5tbPc046yVCB5P4ruw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MzAwO2g9NDUwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/blogs/omgcelebnews/300-AnnetteFunicello-jpg_012009.jpg)
Maybe he meant Mouseketeer
-
Maybe he meant Mouseketeer
I was actually joking around, as there isn't much that can be said or taken from these visits, outside of knowing your team is in the race. If a kid doesn't commit on or shortly after his visit, then there's not much to say about the visit other than the usual.
In this case, Muhammad didn't commit during his visit to Xavier and it doesn't look like a commitment is imminent for anyone until after he's taken all of his visits. I know things can certainly change, but the kid said he wouldn't decide until he's done visiting all schools. So, he only has one more visit (West Virginia, this weekend) set up before he's done with all visits.
We should hear something within a week or so after his final visit.
-
Maybe he meant Mouseketeer
I was actually joking around, as there isn't much that can be said or taken from these visits, outside of knowing your team is in the race. If a kid doesn't commit on or shortly after his visit, then there's not much to say about the visit other than the usual.
In this case, Muhammad didn't commit during his visit to Xavier and it doesn't look like a commitment is imminent for anyone until after he's taken all of his visits. I know things can certainly change, but the kid said he wouldn't decide until he's done visiting all schools. So, he only has one more visit (West Virginia, this weekend) set up before he's done with all visits.
We should hear something within a week or so after his final visit.
+1
-
Huggs with the full court press, Luther is a prototype Huggs player:
Adam ZagoriaVerified account @AdamZagoria 3h3 hours ago
More
WVU went 3 deep at @Hudson_Bball today with Bob Huggins, Larry Harrison & Ron Everhart for 2018 SG @LutherMuhammad. Official this wknd
-
Shifting tides?
-
Shifting tides
Damn, that sucks big time. Who's the back-up plan? Is there a back-up plan?
-
Shifting tides
Hearing he really enjoyed the OSU visit. We shall see.
-
I usually try not to overreact to missing out on one kid but this one would be a big blow. As I have said before we need to win in the worst way this year to get momentum back on our side. Once the staff has been in place for a few years that new car smell wears off and the kid and his parents and coaches are looking for results. Winning will cure a lot of our ills.
-
Paultz wrote "shifting tides?" Note the question mark I am going to look deep for a silverlining meaning may or may not be shifting
-
Paultz wrote "shifting tides?" Note the question mark I am going to look deep for a silverlining meaning may or may not be shifting
I think it means Mohammed ( which was a strong SJU lean at one point) has shifted away from us ( presumably to Ohio state)
-
Seems to me if he was going to commit to us he already would have.
-
Seems to me if he was going to commit to us he already would have.
Why do you say that - these kids get 5 visits and most want to take advantage of that... can you blame them..?
-
Been hearing Ohio State for the past month. Really loves Holtsman.
-
Can't fault him for that. Holty did a terrific job at Butler, although he certainly isn't producing a pipeline of pros.
-
This big '18 class is really rounding into shape. Just shows that we are also wasting our time hoping we have a shot at landing one of those top 50 '19 guys we're after
-
I usually try not to overreact to missing out on one kid but this one would be a big blow. As I have said before we need to win in the worst way this year to get momentum back on our side. Once the staff has been in place for a few years that new car smell wears off and the kid and his parents and coaches are looking for results. Winning will cure a lot of our ills.
Frankly, I don't believe this situation has anything to do with "winning." We haven't 'won' anything yet, but have been able to attract sufficient talent. Although, Muhammad has yet to commit to anyone, I sense this has more do with with 'other' things.
I think it means Mohammed ( which was a strong SJU lean at one point) has shifted away from us ( presumably to Ohio state)
No offense, but his name is spelled Muhammad.
-
This big '18 class is really rounding into shape. Just shows that we are also wasting our time hoping we have a shot at landing one of those top 50 '19 guys we're after
I don't have a problem going after top 50 kids, as we have always been able to land recruits of that ilk.
IMO, I think we also need to cast a larger net for the '18 and '19 classes, respectively.
-
I usually try not to overreact to missing out on one kid but this one would be a big blow. As I have said before we need to win in the worst way this year to get momentum back on our side. Once the staff has been in place for a few years that new car smell wears off and the kid and his parents and coaches are looking for results. Winning will cure a lot of our ills.
Frankly, I don't believe this situation has anything to do with "winning." We haven't 'won' anything yet, but have been able to attract sufficient talent. Although, Muhammad has yet to commit to anyone, I sense this has more do with with 'other' things.
I think it means Mohammed ( which was a strong SJU lean at one point) has shifted away from us ( presumably to Ohio state)
No offense, but his name is spelled Muhammad.
Coaches always get honeymoon when they get hired and they usually can land some recruits. That time is over for us and now they want to see results. I'm not specifically talking just about Luther. I thinking the lack of success so far is definitely hurting recruiting. I would be hard pressed to see how you anyone could think otherwise.
-
I usually try not to overreact to missing out on one kid but this one would be a big blow. As I have said before we need to win in the worst way this year to get momentum back on our side. Once the staff has been in place for a few years that new car smell wears off and the kid and his parents and coaches are looking for results. Winning will cure a lot of our ills.
Frankly, I don't believe this situation has anything to do with "winning." We haven't 'won' anything yet, but have been able to attract sufficient talent. Although, Muhammad has yet to commit to anyone, I sense this has more do with with 'other' things.
I think it means Mohammed ( which was a strong SJU lean at one point) has shifted away from us ( presumably to Ohio state)
No offense, but his name is spelled Muhammad.
Coaches always get honeymoon when they get hired and they usually can land some recruits. That time is over for us and now they want to see results. I'm not specifically talking just about Luther. I thinking the lack of success so far is definitely hurting recruiting. I would be hard pressed to see how you anyone could think otherwise.
Agree.... Coaches always get a honeymoon period. I also believe the honeymoon period is up with this staff and results are vital, as this is a bottom line business. The 'bottom line' being winning, of course. But, I sense there could also be more factors in play, specifically with this particular recruitment, other than lack of success.
-
I usually try not to overreact to missing out on one kid but this one would be a big blow. As I have said before we need to win in the worst way this year to get momentum back on our side. Once the staff has been in place for a few years that new car smell wears off and the kid and his parents and coaches are looking for results. Winning will cure a lot of our ills.
Frankly, I don't believe this situation has anything to do with "winning." We haven't 'won' anything yet, but have been able to attract sufficient talent. Although, Muhammad has yet to commit to anyone, I sense this has more do with with 'other' things.
I think it means Mohammed ( which was a strong SJU lean at one point) has shifted away from us ( presumably to Ohio state)
No offense, but his name is spelled Muhammad.
Coaches always get honeymoon when they get hired and they usually can land some recruits. That time is over for us and now they want to see results. I'm not specifically talking just about Luther. I thinking the lack of success so far is definitely hurting recruiting. I would be hard pressed to see how you anyone could think otherwise.
Agree.... Coaches always get a honeymoon period. I also believe the honeymoon period is up with this staff and results are vital, as this is a bottom line business. The 'bottom line' being winning, of course. But, I sense there could also be more factors in play, specifically with this particular recruitment, other than lack of success.
I honestly think if we have a disappointing year where we don't at least contend for a NCAA spot, and we don't land Luther or any big recruit then this staff has gotta go. I honestly don't see any point of having them stay. They can't recruit, and if they don't win this year they will have proven that they can't coach/develop players.
At least with Lavin we knew he could recruit, but was a terrible coach. Mullin can't recruit and is a terrible coach. If we can't bring top players here we at least have to have someone who can coach up those 3 to low 4 star players.
-
I usually try not to overreact to missing out on one kid but this one would be a big blow. As I have said before we need to win in the worst way this year to get momentum back on our side. Once the staff has been in place for a few years that new car smell wears off and the kid and his parents and coaches are looking for results. Winning will cure a lot of our ills.
Frankly, I don't believe this situation has anything to do with "winning." We haven't 'won' anything yet, but have been able to attract sufficient talent. Although, Muhammad has yet to commit to anyone, I sense this has more do with with 'other' things.
I think it means Mohammed ( which was a strong SJU lean at one point) has shifted away from us ( presumably to Ohio state)
No offense, but his name is spelled Muhammad.
Coaches always get honeymoon when they get hired and they usually can land some recruits. That time is over for us and now they want to see results. I'm not specifically talking just about Luther. I thinking the lack of success so far is definitely hurting recruiting. I would be hard pressed to see how you anyone could think otherwise.
Agree.... Coaches always get a honeymoon period. I also believe the honeymoon period is up with this staff and results are vital, as this is a bottom line business. The 'bottom line' being winning, of course. But, I sense there could also be more factors in play, specifically with this particular recruitment, other than lack of success.
100% get what you're saying.
-
I usually try not to overreact to missing out on one kid but this one would be a big blow. As I have said before we need to win in the worst way this year to get momentum back on our side. Once the staff has been in place for a few years that new car smell wears off and the kid and his parents and coaches are looking for results. Winning will cure a lot of our ills.
Frankly, I don't believe this situation has anything to do with "winning." We haven't 'won' anything yet, but have been able to attract sufficient talent. Although, Muhammad has yet to commit to anyone, I sense this has more do with with 'other' things.
I think it means Mohammed ( which was a strong SJU lean at one point) has shifted away from us ( presumably to Ohio state)
No offense, but his name is spelled Muhammad.
Coaches always get honeymoon when they get hired and they usually can land some recruits. That time is over for us and now they want to see results. I'm not specifically talking just about Luther. I thinking the lack of success so far is definitely hurting recruiting. I would be hard pressed to see how you anyone could think otherwise.
Agree.... Coaches always get a honeymoon period. I also believe the honeymoon period is up with this staff and results are vital, as this is a bottom line business. The 'bottom line' being winning, of course. But, I sense there could also be more factors in play, specifically with this particular recruitment, other than lack of success.
I honestly think if we have a disappointing year where we don't at least contend for a NCAA spot, and we don't land Luther or any big recruit then this staff has gotta go. I honestly don't see any point of having them stay. They can't recruit, and if they don't win this year they will have proven that they can't coach/develop players.
At least with Lavin we knew he could recruit, but was a terrible coach. Mullin can't recruit and is a terrible coach. If we can't bring top players here we at least have to have someone who can coach up those 3 to low 4 star players.
Not going to happen. To me unless a coaching staff shows to be completely inept they should be given 4-5 years. At least let their first class graduate and maybe one additional year. This staff will definitely get that. This year is definitely big for us.
-
What a revolting development this is! When will we ever learn? ???
-
Ouch!
-
We better dominate the transfer market if we're ever gonna be good....
-
I'm ready to just be Transfer U
-
Hate to beat a dead horse, but coach backed the wrong pony
-
So we all agree we should go the Gonzaga route correct? Okay, cool.
-
I'm at a loss. I guess we now move to pursue Greg Williams down South full time which may be a repeat of reaching too high once again. The trends are puzzling of late. This makes one question the fundamental approach that the staff is taking amidst the rebuild in Year3:
1) Striving for the 4-5 stars (Naz Reid, Jordan Tucker, Nas Little, Luther) has been trying, exhausting and in the end disappointing.
2) Meanwhile there were also embarrassing misjudgments in this last recruiting cycle (Jessica debacle, Sid Wilson catastrophe).
3) While starry eyed we haven't been pursuing elite city talent that could add to our core (Isaiah Washington a big time slip, Hasahn French. I'm dumbfounded how we're not more involved with Andre Hyatt and Markquis Nowell)
Meanwhile a successful season is teetering right in front of us, which now includes an even greater degree of pressure. Recruiting is a monster that needs constant attention. I understand Mullin's pursuit of Jordan Brown, but why wasn't he on Luther's doorstep like Huggins and Holtmann have been this past week?
-
Ouch!
Jeez,
What does that mean ! Is it over and out ? How and why ?
-
3) While starry eyed we haven't been pursuing elite city talent that could add to our core (Isaiah Washington a big time slip, Hasahn French). I'm dumbfounded how we're not more involved with Andre Hyatt and Markquis Nowell)
I believed we missed out on French after receiving a verbal from Zach Brown. Frankly, I hate that we missed out on French.
Meanwhile a successful season is teetering right in front of us, which now includes an even greater degree of pressure. Recruiting is a monster that needs constant attention. I understand Mullin's pursuit of Jordan Brown, but why wasn't he on Luther's doorstep like Huggins and Holtmann have been this past week?
The staff went to see Muhammad in his school last week, and has been to his home twice (once with the two or three staff members and the other from Matt A.) within the past couple of weeks. What else do you want 'em to do outside of sleeping on his bedroom floor?
Overall, I do believe the staff (outside of Matt) was a bit too lukewarm, per se'.
-
Is it time to flat out beg Lovett to stay next year (and get degree) and hope Ponds stays put too?
-
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
-
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.
Let's look at the '17 class alone:
Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington
Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff
-
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.
Let's look at the '17 class alone:
Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington
Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff
I believe Ben Simmons' dad best friend was on LSU's staff and Mitchell Robinson's Godfather (Shammond Williams) was on Western Kentucky's staff.
For the most part, I agree with you, in reference to the "no 5 or 4 star players" won't come here 'til we win. In some cases, that may hold true, but a few, too many are playing that card a bit too often.
Actually, we've always been able to nab top 75 players. We only had a difficult time landing those types of kids when Norm Roberts was here, but otherwise, that particular crop of talent has never been too tough for us to land.
-
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.
Let's look at the '17 class alone:
Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington
Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff
You can be sick and tired of it all you want. It's the truth. If it wasn't, then where are all of the 5 stars signing with us? Do you think if SJU does not win and does not make the NCAA that they will have any real chance with 5 stars? No way. They should be focusing much of their resources on attainable prospects (as well as the occasional 4/5 star) and under the radar guys until they start winning more. This last part is where good scouting comes into play.
Not to mention Washington had already won under Romar and been to the NCAA tourney in 3 consecutive seasons from '09-'11. That is a track record regardless if 4 out of his last 5 years he was barely above .500. Mullin has no track record of winning or making the NCAA's yet.
-
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.
Let's look at the '17 class alone:
Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington
Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff
You can be sick and tired of it all you want. It's the truth. If it wasn't, then where are all of the 5 stars signing with us? Do you think if SJU does not win and does not make the NCAA that they will have any real chance with 5 stars? No way. They should be focusing much of their resources on attainable prospects (as well as the occasional 4/5 star) and under the radar guys until they start winning more. This last part is where good scouting comes into play.
Not to mention Washington had already won under Romar and been to the NCAA tourney in 3 consecutive seasons from '09-'11. That is a track record regardless if 4 out of his last 5 years he was barely above .500. Mullin has no track record of winning or making the NCAA's yet.
What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?
-
I thinking the lack of success so far is definitely hurting recruiting. I would be hard pressed to see how you anyone could think otherwise.
Call me hard pressed. How many more wins were you expecting considering the roster that they started with. Me, they won more games than I figured they would.
-
this staff has gotta go.
Mike Rice is available, he'd be my choice. #thetruth
-
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.
Let's look at the '17 class alone:
Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington
Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff
You can be sick and tired of it all you want. It's the truth. If it wasn't, then where are all of the 5 stars signing with us? Do you think if SJU does not win and does not make the NCAA that they will have any real chance with 5 stars? No way. They should be focusing much of their resources on attainable prospects (as well as the occasional 4/5 star) and under the radar guys until they start winning more. This last part is where good scouting comes into play.
Not to mention Washington had already won under Romar and been to the NCAA tourney in 3 consecutive seasons from '09-'11. That is a track record regardless if 4 out of his last 5 years he was barely above .500. Mullin has no track record of winning or making the NCAA's yet.
What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?
Although, Johnson has a winning record (37-30), he has the same amount of post season wins as Mullin (Johnson has lost two consecutive years in the first round of the NIT).
As, you stated, he was able to land a clear 5-star and a borderline 5-star player in one class alone.
-
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.
Let's look at the '17 class alone:
Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington
Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff
You can be sick and tired of it all you want. It's the truth. If it wasn't, then where are all of the 5 stars signing with us? Do you think if SJU does not win and does not make the NCAA that they will have any real chance with 5 stars? No way. They should be focusing much of their resources on attainable prospects (as well as the occasional 4/5 star) and under the radar guys until they start winning more. This last part is where good scouting comes into play.
Not to mention Washington had already won under Romar and been to the NCAA tourney in 3 consecutive seasons from '09-'11. That is a track record regardless if 4 out of his last 5 years he was barely above .500. Mullin has no track record of winning or making the NCAA's yet.
And for the record, I don't think we can realistically hope that we will land top 10 or multiple 5 star guys every year. What happened with Nas Little is just a bad break to me. I don't expect us to compete with and win a battle for a player when the likes of Duke, Kansas, Arizona, Kentucky etc get involved. But in a situation like this where we are considered a strong lean for a kid for a while just to (potentially) lose him to Ohio State is frustrating. Ohio State has had some nice success somewhat recently but they are far from a basketball blue blood. They can also win 10 straight national championships and they'd still be the second game in town on that campus
-
It was pretty evident this was going to happen for a while now. Their recruiting strategy is beyond weird. Like I've been saying since last season, all they can do at this point is win. No 5 stars (and a lot of 4 stars) are coming here until the program starts showing results on the court.
I'm sick of this "no 5 or 4 star players will come here until we start to win" narrative. Yes, winning will help but programs do get these types of players before they start to win. Washington has been getting great recruiting classes despite continuing to not win with them. Ben Simmons went to LSU.
Let's look at the '17 class alone:
Michael Porter - Missouri (yes, extenuating circumstances here)
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Mitchell Robinson was committed to Western KY before he bounced on them twice
Brandon McCoy - UNLV
Nick Weatherspoon - Miss State
John Petty - Alabama
Ethan Thompson - Oregon State
Tremont Waters - LSU
Chuma Okeke - Auburn
Rayshaun Hammonds - Georgia
Jordan Goodwin - St Louis
Kimani Lawrence - Arizona State
Davion Mitchell - Auburn
Josh Anderson - Western Kentucky
Jaylen Nowell - Washington
Those are just players in the top 75 of the class. You don't necessarily have to be a winner to convince talent to play for you. Should be somewhat easier for us than other losing programs to get some talent here considering we have two hall of famers and a ton of NBA front office experience on the staff
You can be sick and tired of it all you want. It's the truth. If it wasn't, then where are all of the 5 stars signing with us? Do you think if SJU does not win and does not make the NCAA that they will have any real chance with 5 stars? No way. They should be focusing much of their resources on attainable prospects (as well as the occasional 4/5 star) and under the radar guys until they start winning more. This last part is where good scouting comes into play.
Not to mention Washington had already won under Romar and been to the NCAA tourney in 3 consecutive seasons from '09-'11. That is a track record regardless if 4 out of his last 5 years he was barely above .500. Mullin has no track record of winning or making the NCAA's yet.
And for the record, I don't think we can realistically hope that we will land top 10 or multiple 5 star guys every year. What happened with Nas Little is just a bad break to me. I don't expect us to compete with and win a battle for a player when the likes of Duke, Kansas, Arizona, Kentucky etc get involved. But in a situation like this where we are considered a strong lean for a kid for a while just to (potentially) lose him to Ohio State is frustrating. Ohio State has had some nice success somewhat recently but they are far from a basketball blue blood. They can also win 10 straight national championships and they'd still be the second game in town on that campus
I'm talking more about 5 star blue chips than a guy like Luther (no knock on Luther). Not happening until we win some more games. And I know it's not college, but to answer your question from another post, at least Avery Johnson showed he could coach and win at the highest level in the NBA. It's a different animal than college but he proved he could win as a HC.
-
Assuming expected playing time, chance of tourney,affinity to Coaching staff, similar/equal etc., then at some point kid will determine if he wants to truly get away or stay somewhat close to home.
I'd imagine if I was 18 and thinking SJU, then go on a multi-state tour and see these large, impressive campuses, facilities, tons of females, etc. and then compare that to our band-aid campus on Utopia Pkwy. and I'd probably question staying too.
It really takes a special kid, a true love of NYC, or other unique situations want to come to Queens.
Again - based on other basketball factors being similar..
-
Assuming expected playing time, chance of tourney,affinity to Coaching staff, similar/equal etc., then at some point kid will determine if he wants to truly get away or stay somewhat close to home.
I'd imagine if I was 18 and thinking SJU, then go on a multi-state tour and see these large, impressive campuses, facilities, tons of females, etc. and then compare that to our band-aid campus on Utopia Pkwy. and I'd probably question staying too.
It really takes a special kid, a true love of NYC, or other unique situations want to come to Queens.
Again - based on other basketball factors being similar..
Unique situations?
-
Unique meaning wanting/needing to be close to family, close relationships w/ other players on team, maybe good diversity for an international type player etc.
-
What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?
What's the recruiting budget at Alabama? That's in the $EC, right?
-
What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?
What's the recruiting budget at Alabama? That's in the $EC, right?
I'm almost positive nobody in the Alabama athletic department even knows what a basketball looks like
-
Kid wanted to go to ND. They filled up. We were always plan b
Some here didn't want to believe that.
No one picks plan b . U survey the field.
-
What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?
What's the recruiting budget at Alabama? That's in the $EC, right?
I'm almost positive nobody in the Alabama athletic department even knows what a basketball looks like
It looks like a deformed football. Also, Leon Douglas was a hell of a ball player.
-
What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?
What's the recruiting budget at Alabama? That's in the $EC, right?
I'm almost positive nobody in the Alabama athletic department even knows what a basketball looks like
Actually Bama is second or third in winning to Kentucky and maybe Tennessee in SEC basketball history.
-
What track record of winning at the college level does Avery Johnson have to land a top 5 player and a top 30 player?
What's the recruiting budget at Alabama? That's in the $EC, right?
I'm almost positive nobody in the Alabama athletic department even knows what a basketball looks like
Actually Bama is second or third in winning to Kentucky and maybe Tennessee in SEC basketball history.
If Alabama basketball won the national championship the lead story in the University newspaper the next day would be what Nick Saban had for dinner
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
That may be true but that excuse isn't going to fly much longer. No I don't believe Mullin is in any danger of losing his job this year if he does not make a major post-season, but at some point it won't matter. My point is Norm was never in any danger until he got to year 6 but the apathy towards the program in the later years was devastating. Legend or not he was brought in here to resurrect his alma mater and land big time local recruits and if he can't do either nobody is going to care after this year.
You fired Lavin for not working hard enough, too much drama around the program and ultimately not winning enough. That's fine. But in two years under Mullin I think we can see some of the things that we saw under Lavin: you got rid of a major assistant coach, had multiple transfers, failed to land many significant recruits, had a late signee transfer after spending just a few weeks on campus and now one key recruit could be slipping away. That is just in two years with no significant winning to show yet. Again it is still early. But I would hardly call this a great start.
Forget about being in danger of losing his job, he doesn't win this year and show some strength in recruiting no one is going to care about the program regardless if he is still the coach. This is a BIG YEAR on the court.
-
Duane Washington Jr.
@TheDuaneWash Columbus!!! Buckeye Nation!!! O-H!!!
Combo guard to OSU.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
Problem is the movie is Groundhog Day ever since Louie left. We are still a sleeping giant the problem is the giant is a lion and The Lion Sleeps Tonight (and every night unfortunately).
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
Problem is the movie is Groundhog Day ever since Louie left. We are still a sleeping giant the problem is the giant is a lion and The Lion Sleeps Tonight (and every night unfortunately).
While I do think St. John's ceiling can be higher in no way shape or form are they a giant. I think simply winning consistently would be a refreshing thing.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
Agree with you that you want players who want to be here but you have to make it an attractive destination that the better players want to be at.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
Recruiting is fluid and I get that, but when do any of these ever break our way? Before a couple weeks ago maybe Sid Wilson was one that went our way but look how that turned out. We seem to always lose out because of last second change of hearts or forces outside the staff's control but we literally never win one that way
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
That may be true but that excuse isn't going to fly much longer. No I don't believe Mullin is in any danger of losing his job this year if he does not make a major post-season, but at some point it won't matter. My point is Norm was never in any danger until he got to year 6 but the apathy towards the program in the later years was devastating. Legend or not he was brought in here to resurrect his alma mater and land big time local recruits and if he can't do either nobody is going to care after this year.
You fired Lavin for not working hard enough, too much drama around the program and ultimately not winning enough. That's fine. But in two years under Mullin I think we can see some of the things that we saw under Lavin: you got rid of a major assistant coach, had multiple transfers, failed to land many significant recruits, had a late signee transfer after spending just a few weeks on campus and now one key recruit could be slipping away. That is just in two years with no significant winning to show yet. Again it is still early. But I would hardly call this a great start.
Forget about being in danger of losing his job, he doesn't win this year and show some strength in recruiting no one is going to care about the program regardless if he is still the coach. This is a BIG YEAR on the court.
Fair.
I think in both cases I think you see how much assistant coaches and school funding play a role in success.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
Recruiting is fluid and I get that, but when do any of these ever break our way? Before a couple weeks ago maybe Sid Wilson was one that went our way but look how that turned out. We seem to always lose out because of last second change of hearts or forces outside the staff's control but we literally never win one that way
Seems like it but few do bounce our way too.
I think what hurts is it feels like overtime the scab is almost healed it's busted open again.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
Recruiting is fluid and I get that, but when do any of these ever break our way? Before a couple weeks ago maybe Sid Wilson was one that went our way but look how that turned out. We seem to always lose out because of last second change of hearts or forces outside the staff's control but we literally never win one that way
Seems like it but few do bounce our way too.
I think what hurts is it feels like overtime the scab is almost healed it's busted open again.
When was the last one to break our way? JaKarr Sampson? And that's just because we didn't end up losing him
-
Gotta win some games, man. It's that simple. Immediate playing time attracts kids, and that is largely gone. Lavin couldn't recruit past the initial class when the PT disappeared. Let's see if this group can. Nobody knows if this staff can even coach yet. Win and we'll be fine.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
Recruiting is fluid and I get that, but when do any of these ever break our way? Before a couple weeks ago maybe Sid Wilson was one that went our way but look how that turned out. We seem to always lose out because of last second change of hearts or forces outside the staff's control but we literally never win one that way
Seems like it but few do bounce our way too.
I think what hurts is it feels like overtime the scab is almost healed it's busted open again.
Again I don't want to argue about assistants but ultimately the Head Coach is in charge. If he hires good assistants and he fails it is his responsibility, if he doesn't hire good assistants and he fails guess what...it is his responsibility. So I really don't care, if he feels he can win with this staff then guess what? Win with this staff, it is his decision. He is getting paid to make that decision. Either way it is on him.
Bottom line he was brought in not to make SJU mediocre or even decent, he was brought in to make SJU competitive with Villanova. That doesn't mean it needs to happen this year, but he needs to make a major step towards that goal this year.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
Recruiting is fluid and I get that, but when do any of these ever break our way? Before a couple weeks ago maybe Sid Wilson was one that went our way but look how that turned out. We seem to always lose out because of last second change of hearts or forces outside the staff's control but we literally never win one that way
Seems like it but few do bounce our way too.
I think what hurts is it feels like overtime the scab is almost healed it's busted open again.
Again I don't want to argue about assistants but ultimately the Head Coach is in charge. If he hires good assistants and he fails it is his responsibility, if he doesn't hire good assistants and he fails guess what...it is his responsibility. So I really don't care, if he feels he can win with this staff then guess what? Win with this staff, it is his decision. He is getting paid to make that decision. Either way it is on him.
Bottom line he was brought in not to make SJU mediocre or even decent, he was brought in to make SJU competitive with Villanova. That doesn't mean it needs to happen this year, but he needs to make a major step towards that goal this year.
+1,000
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
Recruiting is fluid and I get that, but when do any of these ever break our way? Before a couple weeks ago maybe Sid Wilson was one that went our way but look how that turned out. We seem to always lose out because of last second change of hearts or forces outside the staff's control but we literally never win one that way
Seems like it but few do bounce our way too.
I think what hurts is it feels like overtime the scab is almost healed it's busted open again.
Again I don't want to argue about assistants but ultimately the Head Coach is in charge. If he hires good assistants and he fails it is his responsibility, if he doesn't hire good assistants and he fails guess what...it is his responsibility. So I really don't care, if he feels he can win with this staff then guess what? Win with this staff, it is his decision. He is getting paid to make that decision. Either way it is on him.
Bottom line he was brought in not to make SJU mediocre or even decent, he was brought in to make SJU competitive with Villanova. That doesn't mean it needs to happen this year, but he needs to make a major step towards that goal this year.
Agree
-
Hire a coach who can recruit and understands in game stuff. How about Rice.
This is all on Mullin
-
Mullin chose this path. No room for error now. Which means no surprising losses to Delaware f-ing State, LIU Brooklyn or blowout losses at MSG to a Penn State team that ends up going 15-18 and 6-12 in the Big 10. Need to be no worse than 9-3 going into the Big East season. Need to be no worse than 10-8 in Big East play. Even assuming we lose to Duke, that means that the baseline for growth and success going forward is 19-12 going into the BET.
-
Mullin chose this path. No room for error now. Which means no surprising losses to Delaware f-ing State, LIU Brooklyn or blowout losses at MSG to a Penn State team that ends up going 15-18 and 6-12 in the Big 10. Need to be no worse than 9-3 going into the Big East season. Need to be no worse than 10-8 in Big East play. Even assuming we lose to Duke, that means that the baseline for growth and success going forward is 19-12 going into the BET.
It has always been on him. I actually think the team can be good so I have not given up at all.
But be clear many people excuse this staff for things they never would have excused the previous one.
And wrt Muhammad this idea that West Virginia, Ohio St, Xavier and Virginia are blue bloods that SJU can't recruit against is beyond laughable....and Muhammad is a nice recruit but not the type of kid any of the true blue bloods would go after.
He is exactly the type of kid they SHOULD be getting.
-
Mullin chose this path. No room for error now. Which means no surprising losses to Delaware f-ing State, LIU Brooklyn or blowout losses at MSG to a Penn State team that ends up going 15-18 and 6-12 in the Big 10. Need to be no worse than 9-3 going into the Big East season. Need to be no worse than 10-8 in Big East play. Even assuming we lose to Duke, that means that the baseline for growth and success going forward is 19-12 going into the BET.
Hire a coach who can recruit and understands in game stuff. How about Rice.
This is all on Mullin
This.
-
Mullin chose this path. No room for error now. Which means no surprising losses to Delaware f-ing State, LIU Brooklyn or blowout losses at MSG to a Penn State team that ends up going 15-18 and 6-12 in the Big 10. Need to be no worse than 9-3 going into the Big East season. Need to be no worse than 10-8 in Big East play. Even assuming we lose to Duke, that means that the baseline for growth and success going forward is 19-12 going into the BET.
It has always been on him. I actually think the team can be good so I have not given up at all.
But be clear many people excuse this staff for things they never would have excused the previous one.
And wrt Muhammad this idea that West Virginia, Ohio St, Xavier and Virginia are blue bloods that SJU can't recruit against is beyond laughable....and Muhammad is a nice recruit but not the type of kid any of the true blue bloods would go after.
He is exactly the type of kid they SHOULD be getting.
absolutely. Which is why, when the kid sat on the shitter too long and ND, his preferred choice, filled up and pulled his offer, the window was short to seal the deal before a competitor scooped him up. Holtzman being hired by OSU didn't help, as I would guess that the kid probably would have preferred SJU & Mullin over Butler & Holtzman as opposed to OSU & Holtzman, but even given that change in the fact pattern, I thought that Mullin & Matt would get this kid once ND passed on him.
-
Ohio St
-
Holtzman probably wants this one bad as well as there is no love lost between him and Mullin.
-
Meanwhile our coach is golfing in Garden City Yesterday.
-
And? SJU was on this kid from the start and put tons of effort into recruiting him. Mullin was present. Sometimes you can't compete with OSU campus, facilities or boosters. Naz, Jahvon and Luther all are going out of state. Kids want to go away, can you blame them?
That's why this whole "alienating the local aau's and high schools" is nonsense. This isn't the 80s or 90s. Most of these local coaches just want their egos massaged and name in the paper at the end of the day.
-
And? SJU was on this kid from the start and put tons of effort into recruiting him. Mullin was present. Sometimes you can't compete with OSU campus, facilities or boosters. Naz, Jahvon and Luther all are going out of state. Kids want to go away, can you blame them?
That's why this whole "alienating the local aau's and high schools" is nonsense. This isn't the 80s or 90s. Most of these local coaches just want their egos massaged and name in the paper at the end of the day.
I'm also one who doesn't care about the "alienating of local AAU and high school" folks. I'm one who says get some players from your backyard, but also scour and recruit hard throughout the entire country and abroad. If our roster is full of out of towners and a couple of local kids, and we're winning.... Who would give a crap, other than a handful of NY/NJ centric folks who just want something to complain about?
Once again, I sense this recruitment has more to do with "just wanting to go away."
-
This program is a joke....
-
Am I missing something or has this kid really tipped his hand.?
Seems like a lot of rumors running wild today
-
Am I missing something or has this kid really tipped his hand.?
Seems like a lot of rumors running wild today
Zach B also tweeted an hour so ago that he is very unlikely to sign with SJU. So...
-
Am I missing something or has this kid really tipped his hand.?
Seems like a lot of rumors running wild today
No, he hasn't officially announced anything, and sometimes you can't say definitively until someone has actually announced. But, the tea leaves seems to be Ohio State. I also read on Redmen where someone said he was recording his announcement today, but obviously it won't be shown until a week or two from now when he announces.
-
Am I missing something or has this kid really tipped his hand.?
Seems like a lot of rumors running wild today
I have not read anything formally. But, have read Matt is not following Luther, Paultzman has an OSU avi on redmen.com plus Zack B tweet. Doesnt look good when connecting the dots.
-
He's gone...
Where do you think Zach got his scoop from?
-
Should have kept Lavin, shook up the staff a bit and gave him a extension. Can't recruit with 2 years on the contract.
-
Let's please not go there. It will lead to 7000 posts on the prior staff. Lavin had his opportunity and didn't take advantage of it. This is year 3 for Chris & Co. and they need to get it done with a solid season on the court and on the recruiting front.
-
Let's please not go there. It will lead to 7000 posts on the prior staff. Lavin had his opportunity and didn't take advantage of it. This is year 3 for Chris & Co. and they need to get it done with a solid season on the court and on the recruiting front.
I agree, there is no need to go there and don't wanna go there (and, I was someone who backed Lavin). This staff needs to grind and be a bit more visiable (on the recruiting trail), as well as needing a shake up.
-
I say it because Mullin poached the job while Lavin still had it.
This guy has done nothing as of yet to show he knows what he is doing. It is year 3 kind of concerning - just like not getting a forward for the team this year. This thing is not not going to get any better for a long time. It is extremely sad.
-
"Poached" or not, Lavin lost that job due to his own doing. Period. And, like Dink, I was very much a Lavin supporter until his last year.
Disagree that Mullin & staff have done nothing. They took a step last year. We have very good talent, especially at the guard/wings, 1-7. Our back court alone is as talented as it has been since the late 90s. Ponds was one of the best SJU freshman I can remember; Lovett one of the better first year players I can remember, and we are adding a former 5-star PG from a high major. That is not "nothing".
Where we agree is that this is a huge year for the program on the court and off. They need to show marked improvement.
-
Not time to jump off the ledge yet. The odds are we will have Trimble, Ponds,Simon and Dixon next year. Disappointing because he seemed to be a SJU lean. Expect Lovett to be gone, but really hope Ponds stays. I also agree that we should recruit nationally. A lot of local players want to leave NYC, but players from other geographic areas might find NYC appealling. The Rice situation is puzzling, could use him and the price is right. Plenty of great players from NJ that he could help with.
-
Recruiting ain't easy. The longer the fish is in the sea the more sharks it will attract.
This one didn't really attract more sharks than anticipated. This one wasn't like Nas Little. Obviously OSU and West Virginia are solid programs but it's not like we were the only ones recruiting this kid from the start. I don't expect to beat Duke or Kentucky for a kid but if we want to get top 100 kids then we have to beat out the OSUs and WVUs of the world on occasion.
We have one recruiter and apparently everybody except for Mullin or whoever is calling the shots there sees that we need to add another one. With only one recruiter it seems like we can't hit recruiting from all the areas it needs to be hit from. We can't devote 2-3 years to 4/5 star HS players AND locate 3 star HS talent with big upside AND dominate the transfer game.
We either need to add another recruiter pronto or turn our focus to attainable kids like Josh Roberts and hope he develops into a stud. Then hope to pick off a few transfers during the offseason.
So where do we go from here? After this likely Luther whiff we will hear the same old "it's ok we are positioned well for the '19 class" that we heard during the Lavin years. And we'll be told frequently that we are very much in the mix for guys like Precious and Lewis and Aidan when we won't actually land any of them. We've all seen this movie before many times and for some reason we think it's going to end differently every time
When he left his travel team in the spring it wasn't a good sign to me.
1. Not under same coach who has good relationship with staff.
2. He had to be unhappy with role / wanted bigger spotlight.
3. Switched to new league with a bunch of new people in his ear.
I don't have intimate knowledge of what's going on but I've seen this movie before. I know its discouraging but onto the next one has to be the mentality. You want dudes who want to be here period.
Recruiting is fluid and I get that, but when do any of these ever break our way? Before a couple weeks ago maybe Sid Wilson was one that went our way but look how that turned out. We seem to always lose out because of last second change of hearts or forces outside the staff's control but we literally never win one that way
Seems like it but few do bounce our way too.
I think what hurts is it feels like overtime the scab is almost healed it's busted open again.
Again I don't want to argue about assistants but ultimately the Head Coach is in charge. If he hires good assistants and he fails it is his responsibility, if he doesn't hire good assistants and he fails guess what...it is his responsibility. So I really don't care, if he feels he can win with this staff then guess what? Win with this staff, it is his decision. He is getting paid to make that decision. Either way it is on him.
Bottom line he was brought in not to make SJU mediocre or even decent, he was brought in to make SJU competitive with Villanova. That doesn't mean it needs to happen this year, but he needs to make a major step towards that goal this year.
Absolutely
-
"Poached" or not, Lavin lost that job due to his own doing. Period. And, like Dink, I was very much a Lavin supporter until his last year.
Disagree that Mullin & staff have done nothing. They took a step last year. We have very good talent, especially at the guard/wings, 1-7. Our back court alone is as talented as it has been since the late 90s. Ponds was one of the best SJU freshman I can remember; Lovett one of the better first year players I can remember, and we are adding a former 5-star PG from a high major. That is not "nothing".
Where we agree is that this is a huge year for the program on the court and off. They need to show marked improvement.
What backcourt from the 90's are we comparing these guys to?
-
@AdamZagoria
2018 @Hudson_Bball SG @LutherMuhammad is expected to choose between Ohio State and Xavier, per his coach.
I don't think Muhammad likes all the info leaking out:
@LutherMuhammad 28m
Replying to @AdamZagoria @Hudson_Bball
Delete this!
-
@AdamZagoria
2018 @Hudson_Bball SG @LutherMuhammad is expected to choose between Ohio State and Xavier, per his coach.
I don't think Muhammad likes all the info leaking out:
@LutherMuhammad 28m
Replying to @AdamZagoria @Hudson_Bball
Delete this!
It's going to ruin his sweet selection show of what school he will pick.
-
He's gone...
Where do you think Zach got his scoop from?
Baldi?
-
He's gone...
Where do you think Zach got his scoop from?
Baldi?
He wishes. Braziller got his scoop from Matt A, who was told yesterday that Luther wasn't even considering St Johns
-
He's gone...
Where do you think Zach got his scoop from?
Baldi?
He wishes. Braziller got his scoop from Matt A, who was told yesterday that Luther wasn't even considering St Johns
Yeah seriously every Zach scoop is from Matt A
-
Luther announced on his twitter he will be committing to Ohio State tomorrow night.
@LutherMuhammad 36m36 minutes ago
I’ll be committing tomorrow at 8pm! 😉💯
-
He's gone...
Where do you think Zach got his scoop from?
Baldi?
He wishes. Braziller got his scoop from Matt A, who was told yesterday that Luther wasn't even considering St Johns
Why did he wait until 2 days before committing to tell us he was not even considering us after we spent two years recruiting him? We could have moved on sooner and turned our attention elsewhere.
-
As we've discussed before, I'm only a few years younger than you. The first back court I remember well (at a point where I understood the game) was JB and Sprolling. The EB/Bootsy back court is the best I've seen as a SJU fan. Lovett/Ponds aren't at that level at this point because of their defensive woes, among other things, but they are IMO the second best I've seen. When you add a former 5-star recruit in Simon to that mix, I think it is the second best in my fandom. Disclaimer - I thought Sheed and D-Lo had the potential to be the best, but we all know what happened with Mr. Philadelphia.
"Poached" or not, Lavin lost that job due to his own doing. Period. And, like Dink, I was very much a Lavin supporter until his last year.
Disagree that Mullin & staff have done nothing. They took a step last year. We have very good talent, especially at the guard/wings, 1-7. Our back court alone is as talented as it has been since the late 90s. Ponds was one of the best SJU freshman I can remember; Lovett one of the better first year players I can remember, and we are adding a former 5-star PG from a high major. That is not "nothing".
Where we agree is that this is a huge year for the program on the court and off. They need to show marked improvement.
What backcourt from the 90's are we comparing these guys to?
-
This one stings quite a bit. Still a lot gonna happen between now and fall though. Our chances to add. Top 100 kid aren't looking great right now though.
-
We don't have a shot at any top kids unless we kid ourselves thinking Moses Brown is coming or Bol Bol has been keeping us a secret.
Our recruiting @ high school level in future is problematic if staff keeps spending disproportionate time on highly rated kids who are getting courted by programs in different class either by their wins or their location, facilities, campus etc
-
We don't have a shot at any top kids unless we kid ourselves thinking Moses Brown is coming or Bol Bol has been keeping us a secret.
Our recruiting @ high school level in future is problematic if staff keeps spending disproportionate time on highly rated kids who are getting courted by programs in different class either by their wins or their location, facilities, campus etc
I've been saying the same thing. 18 was supposed to be a monster class , we ll be lucky to get one 4 star recruit. Look at the studs we are going after in 19. Too much effort w too little return on investment w the 5 stars at this point. Gotta lower the bar a little. Luther was worth going after, but we lost out. That's why it's important to cast a wider net w the 4 stars and minimize our pursuit of the 5 stars. Furthermore we only have 1 recruiter.
-
I hope Dixon and Trimble can carry the load next year, cause that will be our backcourt.
-
I hope Dixon and Trimble can carry the load next year, cause that will be our backcourt.
Don't forget Justin Simon.
-
I hope Dixon and Trimble can carry the load next year, cause that will be our backcourt.
Where are ponds and lovett going?
-
Lots of negative stuff being thrown against SJU in this recruitment.
-
Lots of negative stuff being thrown against SJU in this recruitment.
Let's hear it!
-
Lots of negative stuff being thrown against SJU in this recruitment.
Too bad there's no believable rebuttal
-
Looks like re-upping matt was pretty silly at this point. Going on two years in a row with minimal impact.
-
I hope Dixon and Trimble can carry the load next year, cause that will be our backcourt.
That's a nice backcourt. In the MAAC
-
I hope Dixon and Trimble can carry the load next year, cause that will be our backcourt.
That's a nice backcourt. In the MAAC
Maybe Grasso'll get on them.
-
Looks like re-upping matt was pretty silly at this point. Going on two years in a row with minimal impact.
Who recruited Ponds, Lovett, Yawke, Ahmed, Wilson, Brown, Owens, Clark, Simon, Keita, Trimble and Roberts? Tony Chiles?
-
I hope Dixon and Trimble can carry the load next year, cause that will be our backcourt.
Where do you think LoVett and Ponds are going to go? They're not NBA players. Maybe one day, but they're not even close right now.
-
Looks like re-upping matt was pretty silly at this point. Going on two years in a row with minimal impact.
Who recruited Ponds, Lovett, Yawke, Ahmed, Wilson, Brown, Owens, Clark, Simon, Keita, Trimble and Roberts? Tony Chiles?
Shouldn't the line be drawn on actually playing ball here? Brown will never play here. Wilson will never play here. This isn't a class that's being asked to replace to an entire roster like Lavin was forced to. There was no need to take the chances that the staff took.
If they just grabbed a couple of lunch pail tough guys to rebound the damn ball, we'd be a tournament team this year. At what point do you acknowledge that by comparison, Lavin and his staff, despite their short comings, were better at this?
-
Missing out on Luther definitely hurts, but this year's team is still the team we expected, minus Sid Wilson. Still time for a late addition this year and definitely time to add a piece or two for 2018.
-
Give me guys like Charles Minlind, Tyrone Grant, Lamont Middleton, Lavor Postell.....none were 5 star kids. We sometime suffer from unrealistic expectations, we are not going to have a run like nova, gonzaga or like butler did. we can hope to make some noise on an occasional season. If we can grab a transfer/Juco player here and there add him to guys who develope over a couple of years and take it from there. Recruiting 5 star kids from ny or outside is a waste of resources (and I hate to say that)
-
Give me guys like Charles Minlind, Tyrone Grant, Lamont Middleton, Lavor Postell.....none were 5 star kids. We sometime suffer from unrealistic expectations, we are not going to have a run like nova, gonzaga or like butler did. we can hope to make some noise on an occasional season. If we can grab a transfer/Juco player here and there add him to guys who develope over a couple of years and take it from there. Recruiting 5 star kids from ny or outside is a waste of resources (and I hate to say that)
Lavor Postell wasn't a 5 star, but he was a highly ranked recruit. Around #60 nationally, but even to find a Ty Grant, or a Lamont Middleton the staff has to work harder. Ours hasn't lately.
-
Looks like re-upping matt was pretty silly at this point. Going on two years in a row with minimal impact.
Who recruited Ponds, Lovett, Yawke, Ahmed, Wilson, Brown, Owens, Clark, Simon, Keita, Trimble and Roberts? Tony Chiles?
Matt did a great job first two years. Last and this not so much.
-
Looks like re-upping matt was pretty silly at this point. Going on two years in a row with minimal impact.
Who recruited Ponds, Lovett, Yawke, Ahmed, Wilson, Brown, Owens, Clark, Simon, Keita, Trimble and Roberts? Tony Chiles?
Matt did a great job first two years. Last and this not so much.
Mullin was hired end of March 2015. Its's now mid September 2017. So he's been head coach for about 2.5 years. Which would explain why Matt A hasn't done that good a job recruiting the last four years.
-
This isn't a class that's being asked to replace to an entire roster like Lavin was forced to. There was no need to take the chances that the staff took.
What are you talking about? Lavin inherited a tournament team with ten seniors that went on to play professional basketball. Mullin inherited Felix Balamou and Amir Alibagoshit and within two recruiting cycles has assembled more talent than that nice person Lavin did in five years. What are you even talking about? Good grief.
-
This isn't a class that's being asked to replace to an entire roster like Lavin was forced to. There was no need to take the chances that the staff took.
What are you talking about? Lavin inherited a tournament team with ten seniors that went on to play professional basketball. Mullin inherited Felix Balamou and Amir Alibagoshit and within two recruiting cycles has assembled more talent than that nice person Lavin did in five years. What are you even talking about? Good grief.
That's not entirely fair. The idea that he inherited an NCAA team is based on the fact he took them to the NCAA's not because he inherited a team that played in one prior. That is a huge difference. Mike Jarvis inherited an NCAA team from Fran, why? Because they went to the NCAA's the year before and returned Artest, Postell, Ty Grant, Bootsy (who would become eligible) and the top HS PG in the country coming in. 10 seniors or not he inherited a team that went 5-13, 6-12 and 6-12 in the BE in the 3 years prior to his arrival, hardly evidence he inherited an NCAA team.
Furthermore even if you grant the fact that he "inherited an NCAA team" by definition he had to essentially replace an entire roster, you can't blame that on him. In other words you can't have it both ways, you can't say he inherited all those seniors and then dismiss the fact that he had to replace an entire roster that he inherited.
Furthermore by his 3rd year he had a 8-10 NIT team in a much more difficult conference (cannot compare the current BE to the old BE. Not even close). By his 4th year he had arguably the most talented roster at SJU in a long time even without Harkless. With Harkless it would have been right there with Villanova in the BE imho. This is where you can argue he underachieved and did not do enough. Because that is where I would agree. But either way 3 20 win seasons and 4 NIT/NCAA seasons in 5 years is not good enough. That is fine. It shouldn't be, we expect to be at a level commensurate with Nova. No reason they can't.
But Mullin did not inherit a mess of a program. He needed to rebuild the roster no doubt. But he is going into his 3rd year, he has forced out a well known assistant, had countless kids transfer, whiffed on most of the top local kids (a huge factor in his hiring was going to be him and his staff's ability to land Alkins, Tucker, Naz Reid, Muhammad etc). Because again although he deserves credit for rebuilding the roster at the same time he has gotten far too much credit from posters giving him credit for improving from 1 league win to 7. When you are THAT BAD early it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE not to improve unless you are named Rutgers. Bottom line is if Lavin were the coach the last 2 years I don't think SJU would have been much worse or in fact worse, my guess is they would have been better specifically 2015-16 (Mullin's first year because I think Lavin would have had some recruits stay-I don't fault Mullin for that however).
The harder part is NOW. SJU squeezed every possible win out of last year they could. Most of their losses were blowouts especially in the league. That is what scares me. The record can be misleading I look at not just the losses but how competitive they were in those losses as evidence they have it going in the right direction. The losses were blowouts for the most part, totally non-competitive. The easy part was going from 1 to 7, the harder part is going from 7 to 10 or 11 and beyond. He needs to start showing NOW why he and not Lavin not Danny Hurley was the best choice for SJU 2 1/2 years ago. He needs to start showing this year he can do that and then put in the work on the road to capitalize with recruits.
-
Steve Lavin's Head Coaching Record at SJU:
21-12
2-2
17-14
20-13
21-12
I'll just leave this here.
-
This isn't a class that's being asked to replace to an entire roster like Lavin was forced to. There was no need to take the chances that the staff took.
What are you talking about? Lavin inherited a tournament team with ten seniors that went on to play professional basketball. Mullin inherited Felix Balamou and Amir Alibagoshit and within two recruiting cycles has assembled more talent than that nice person Lavin did in five years. What are you even talking about? Good grief.
That's not entirely fair. The idea that he inherited an NCAA team is based on the fact he took them to the NCAA's not because he inherited a team that played in one prior. That is a huge difference. Mike Jarvis inherited an NCAA team from Fran, why? Because they went to the NCAA's the year before and returned Artest, Postell, Ty Grant, Bootsy (who would become eligible) and the top HS PG in the country coming in. 10 seniors or not he inherited a team that went 5-13, 6-12 and 6-12 in the BE in the 3 years prior to his arrival, hardly evidence he inherited an NCAA team.
Furthermore even if you grant the fact that he "inherited an NCAA team" by definition he had to essentially replace an entire roster, you can't blame that on him. In other words you can't have it both ways, you can't say he inherited all those seniors and then dismiss the fact that he had to replace an entire roster that he inherited.
Furthermore by his 3rd year he had a 8-10 NIT team in a much more difficult conference (cannot compare the current BE to the old BE. Not even close). By his 4th year he had arguably the most talented roster at SJU in a long time even without Harkless. With Harkless it would have been right there with Villanova in the BE imho. This is where you can argue he underachieved and did not do enough. Because that is where I would agree. But either way 3 20 win seasons and 4 NIT/NCAA seasons in 5 years is not good enough. That is fine. It shouldn't be, we expect to be at a level commensurate with Nova. No reason they can't.
But Mullin did not inherit a mess of a program. He needed to rebuild the roster no doubt. But he is going into his 3rd year, he has forced out a well known assistant, had countless kids transfer, whiffed on most of the top local kids (a huge factor in his hiring was going to be him and his staff's ability to land Alkins, Tucker, Naz Reid, Muhammad etc). Because again although he deserves credit for rebuilding the roster at the same time he has gotten far too much credit from posters giving him credit for improving from 1 league win to 7. When you are THAT BAD early it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE not to improve unless you are named Rutgers. Bottom line is if Lavin were the coach the last 2 years I don't think SJU would have been much worse or in fact worse, my guess is they would have been better specifically 2015-16 (Mullin's first year because I think Lavin would have had some recruits stay-I don't fault Mullin for that however).
The harder part is NOW. SJU squeezed every possible win out of last year they could. Most of their losses were blowouts especially in the league. That is what scares me. The record can be misleading I look at not just the losses but how competitive they were in those losses as evidence they have it going in the right direction. The losses were blowouts for the most part, totally non-competitive. The easy part was going from 1 to 7, the harder part is going from 7 to 10 or 11 and beyond. He needs to start showing NOW why he and not Lavin not Danny Hurley was the best choice for SJU 2 1/2 years ago. He needs to start showing this year he can do that and then put in the work on the road to capitalize with recruits.
This. Haven't always agreed with Fordham and Dinkins but lately they have been knocking them out of the park ala Judge and Stanton.
-
Steve Lavin's Head Coaching Record at SJU:
21-12
2-2
17-14
20-13
21-12
I'll just leave this here.
Overall, it was disappointing, but I guess the devil you know comes to mind. I never wanted Mullin. It's a risk the program would never recovery from if he ever had to be fired. It seems like he's not a coach on an upswing in the eyes of recruits. They are avoiding him like the plague. Recruits were drawn to him. He didn't always make the best choices in terms of character, but no one had a record before they came to STJ. That's more than we can say for Norm & Mullin.
-
This isn't a class that's being asked to replace to an entire roster like Lavin was forced to. There was no need to take the chances that the staff took.
What are you talking about? Lavin inherited a tournament team with ten seniors that went on to play professional basketball. Mullin inherited Felix Balamou and Amir Alibagoshit and within two recruiting cycles has assembled more talent than that nice person Lavin did in five years. What are you even talking about? Good grief.
That's not entirely fair. The idea that he inherited an NCAA team is based on the fact he took them to the NCAA's not because he inherited a team that played in one prior. That is a huge difference. Mike Jarvis inherited an NCAA team from Fran, why? Because they went to the NCAA's the year before and returned Artest, Postell, Ty Grant, Bootsy (who would become eligible) and the top HS PG in the country coming in. 10 seniors or not he inherited a team that went 5-13, 6-12 and 6-12 in the BE in the 3 years prior to his arrival, hardly evidence he inherited an NCAA team.
Furthermore even if you grant the fact that he "inherited an NCAA team" by definition he had to essentially replace an entire roster, you can't blame that on him. In other words you can't have it both ways, you can't say he inherited all those seniors and then dismiss the fact that he had to replace an entire roster that he inherited.
Furthermore by his 3rd year he had a 8-10 NIT team in a much more difficult conference (cannot compare the current BE to the old BE. Not even close). By his 4th year he had arguably the most talented roster at SJU in a long time even without Harkless. With Harkless it would have been right there with Villanova in the BE imho. This is where you can argue he underachieved and did not do enough. Because that is where I would agree. But either way 3 20 win seasons and 4 NIT/NCAA seasons in 5 years is not good enough. That is fine. It shouldn't be, we expect to be at a level commensurate with Nova. No reason they can't.
But Mullin did not inherit a mess of a program. He needed to rebuild the roster no doubt. But he is going into his 3rd year, he has forced out a well known assistant, had countless kids transfer, whiffed on most of the top local kids (a huge factor in his hiring was going to be him and his staff's ability to land Alkins, Tucker, Naz Reid, Muhammad etc). Because again although he deserves credit for rebuilding the roster at the same time he has gotten far too much credit from posters giving him credit for improving from 1 league win to 7. When you are THAT BAD early it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE not to improve unless you are named Rutgers. Bottom line is if Lavin were the coach the last 2 years I don't think SJU would have been much worse or in fact worse, my guess is they would have been better specifically 2015-16 (Mullin's first year because I think Lavin would have had some recruits stay-I don't fault Mullin for that however).
The harder part is NOW. SJU squeezed every possible win out of last year they could. Most of their losses were blowouts especially in the league. That is what scares me. The record can be misleading I look at not just the losses but how competitive they were in those losses as evidence they have it going in the right direction. The losses were blowouts for the most part, totally non-competitive. The easy part was going from 1 to 7, the harder part is going from 7 to 10 or 11 and beyond. He needs to start showing NOW why he and not Lavin not Danny Hurley was the best choice for SJU 2 1/2 years ago. He needs to start showing this year he can do that and then put in the work on the road to capitalize with recruits.
This. Haven't always agreed with Fordham and Dinkins but lately they have been knocking them out of the park ala Judge and Stanton.
Haha! +1
-
http://nypost.com/2017/09/23/losing-prized-nj-star-reveals-real-challenge-for-st-johns/
-
Some interesting quotes from the article:
"The perception exists that the recruiting structure at St. John’s is different from that of most high-major programs, that Abdelmassih does most of the recruiting. But Mullin said the entire staff chips in. In the Twitter and recruiting-crazy age, everyone knows who is seeing whom. It has become more than a one-man job."
“Very few, if any, staffs operate like St. John’s,” Slater said. “To a degree, it puts them at a competitive disadvantage.”
-
Great article from Zach that pretty much sums up our current state. Are there issues that need to be addressed? Yes. (Zack Brown, Sid Wilson, Luther, lack of Mullin involvement) Is it time to panic? No. The results on the court this season will dictate quite a bit.
The minute Matt secured Owens I kind of knew that the transfer game would be our strategy to rebuild and I'm fine with that until we see some real success on the court. Hopefully we can roll some winning into 4 or possibly 5 star high school kid(s).
-
Looks like re-upping matt was pretty silly at this point. Going on two years in a row with minimal impact.
Who recruited Ponds, Lovett, Yawke, Ahmed, Wilson, Brown, Owens, Clark, Simon, Keita, Trimble and Roberts? Tony Chiles?
Matt did a great job first two years. Last and this not so much.
Mullin was hired end of March 2015. Its's now mid September 2017. So he's been head coach for about 2.5 years. Which would explain why Matt A hasn't done that good a job recruiting the last four years.
Last seasons recruiting is for this season - year 3. This seasons recruiting is for next season - year 4. And many teams already have good players signed on. But don't let the facts get in the way of your quips.
-
it's about wins, recognition, experienced staff, proven development and facilities etc.We struggle in all of that right now.
Zach article was good. The glaring hole for now that is fixable as pointed out remains in who recruits. Mullin's comments of everyone "pitching in" is BS. Team work and sharing some load is one thing in a great organization but there still needs to be a clear team, not one person doing the bulk and others dabbling. The other programs & recruiting analysts see this as abnormal, yet Mullin will not admit to it directly or is blind.
Mullin & AD Goff need to update the game plan now. It's less about progress in this season with more W's bit the long term structure.
-
This isn't a class that's being asked to replace to an entire roster like Lavin was forced to. There was no need to take the chances that the staff took.
What are you talking about? Lavin inherited a tournament team with ten seniors that went on to play professional basketball. Mullin inherited Felix Balamou and Amir Alibagoshit and within two recruiting cycles has assembled more talent than that nice person Lavin did in five years. What are you even talking about? Good grief.
That's not entirely fair. The idea that he inherited an NCAA team is based on the fact he took them to the NCAA's not because he inherited a team that played in one prior. That is a huge difference. Mike Jarvis inherited an NCAA team from Fran, why? Because they went to the NCAA's the year before and returned Artest, Postell, Ty Grant, Bootsy (who would become eligible) and the top HS PG in the country coming in. 10 seniors or not he inherited a team that went 5-13, 6-12 and 6-12 in the BE in the 3 years prior to his arrival, hardly evidence he inherited an NCAA team.
Furthermore even if you grant the fact that he "inherited an NCAA team" by definition he had to essentially replace an entire roster, you can't blame that on him. In other words you can't have it both ways, you can't say he inherited all those seniors and then dismiss the fact that he had to replace an entire roster that he inherited.
Furthermore by his 3rd year he had a 8-10 NIT team in a much more difficult conference (cannot compare the current BE to the old BE. Not even close). By his 4th year he had arguably the most talented roster at SJU in a long time even without Harkless. With Harkless it would have been right there with Villanova in the BE imho. This is where you can argue he underachieved and did not do enough. Because that is where I would agree. But either way 3 20 win seasons and 4 NIT/NCAA seasons in 5 years is not good enough. That is fine. It shouldn't be, we expect to be at a level commensurate with Nova. No reason they can't.
But Mullin did not inherit a mess of a program. He needed to rebuild the roster no doubt. But he is going into his 3rd year, he has forced out a well known assistant, had countless kids transfer, whiffed on most of the top local kids (a huge factor in his hiring was going to be him and his staff's ability to land Alkins, Tucker, Naz Reid, Muhammad etc). Because again although he deserves credit for rebuilding the roster at the same time he has gotten far too much credit from posters giving him credit for improving from 1 league win to 7. When you are THAT BAD early it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE not to improve unless you are named Rutgers. Bottom line is if Lavin were the coach the last 2 years I don't think SJU would have been much worse or in fact worse, my guess is they would have been better specifically 2015-16 (Mullin's first year because I think Lavin would have had some recruits stay-I don't fault Mullin for that however).
The harder part is NOW. SJU squeezed every possible win out of last year they could. Most of their losses were blowouts especially in the league. That is what scares me. The record can be misleading I look at not just the losses but how competitive they were in those losses as evidence they have it going in the right direction. The losses were blowouts for the most part, totally non-competitive. The easy part was going from 1 to 7, the harder part is going from 7 to 10 or 11 and beyond. He needs to start showing NOW why he and not Lavin not Danny Hurley was the best choice for SJU 2 1/2 years ago. He needs to start showing this year he can do that and then put in the work on the road to capitalize with recruits.
I'm somewhat optimistic about this upcoming season, but everything fordham said here is dead on. There's nothing the SJU staff can do if a kid like Nassir Little blows up and gets offered by Duke and Arizona. I love to SJU, but to be honest if I was offered by either of those schools, I'd go with them too. But when you spend 3 years recruiting a guy like Muhammed, the optics look really bad when a program that has not been recruiting him comes in and signs him. Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but a class of Dixon, Keita, and Roberts doesn't really impress me at this stage. Expected a lot more from these guys.
-
Some interesting quotes from the article:
"The perception exists that the recruiting structure at St. John’s is different from that of most high-major programs, that Abdelmassih does most of the recruiting. But Mullin said the entire staff chips in. In the Twitter and recruiting-crazy age, everyone knows who is seeing whom. It has become more than a one-man job."
“Very few, if any, staffs operate like St. John’s,” Slater said. “To a degree, it puts them at a competitive disadvantage.”
We are already at a disadvantage. No need to compound it. Mullin promised to bang down the gym doors. Has not done that. Also need Mitch to help w recruiting or bump him down and hire Rice. Although this whole Rice thing is also puzzling. Not asking for much money. He should already be on our staff. IMO Mitch duplicates Mullins skills. I like Mich. But really need a coach that has complimentary skills. I.E. college exp, Recruiting,XOs, big man coach etc.
-
Without a doubt we don't have a proper coaching staff in place. We are trying to get it all done an assistant HC short. Most teams have multiple recruiters. Matt A is excellent but I'll say it again, he can't do it alone. None of this is his fault. He's doing about as well as humanly possible. We are hamstrung because of the Slice debacle and the school seems to think it's fine to make a go for a few years without a full staff to save money. That is ridiculous. It was also a huge mistake for the school to have never had a proper AD until now. It probably lead to many of these issues.
The school needs to suck up those losses and get a proper AHC in there who can both coach and recruit. Look at Georgetown. They have a guy like Louis Orr who was a former player, Big East head coach and a very good recruiter. SJU needs somebody like that on the sidelines, whether it's Rice or somebody else.
-
Let's redirect the general recruiting and coaching posts to another thread and keep this as a Luther Muhammad.
-
Let's redirect the general recruiting and coaching posts to another thread and keep this as a Luther Muhammad.
+1. Reading about Luther gets me depressed , especially at the heals of the Wilson loss.
-
That's not entirely fair.
I did not make my bones by being entirely fair.
The idea that he inherited an NCAA team is based on the fact he took them to the NCAA's not because he inherited a team that played in one prior. That is a huge difference. Mike Jarvis inherited an NCAA team from Fran, why? Because they went to the NCAA's the year before and returned Artest, Postell, Ty Grant, Bootsy (who would become eligible) and the top HS PG in the country coming in. 10 seniors or not he inherited a team that went 5-13, 6-12 and 6-12 in the BE in the 3 years prior to his arrival, hardly evidence he inherited an NCAA team.
The evidence that he inherited an NCAA tournament team is that the team he inherited went to the NCAA tournament. Refute that. Pro tip: you can't.
Furthermore even if you grant the fact that he "inherited an NCAA team" by definition he had to essentially replace an entire roster, you can't blame that on him. In other words you can't have it both ways, you can't say he inherited all those seniors and then dismiss the fact that he had to replace an entire roster that he inherited.
I'm not dismissing anything. He had a year to replace an entire roster that went to the NCAA tournament based upon the goodwill he inherited by being a vacuous talking head on ESPN. I understand that. But comparing the situation of a first year coach who inherits 10 seniors to one who inherits Felix Balamou is at best disingenous.
Furthermore
For the record that's two furthermores
by his 3rd year he had a 8-10 NIT team in a much more difficult conference (cannot compare the current BE to the old BE. Not even close). By his 4th year he had arguably the most talented roster at SJU in a long time even without Harkless. With Harkless it would have been right there with Villanova in the BE imho. This is where you can argue he underachieved and did not do enough. Because that is where I would agree. But either way 3 20 win seasons and 4 NIT/NCAA seasons in 5 years is not good enough. That is fine. It shouldn't be, we expect to be at a level commensurate with Nova. No reason they can't.
We can agree on this to the extent that you've implicitly stated that Lavin was an awful coach who didn't know what to do with the talent he assembled. To the extent that we don't know what Mullin will do with the talent he's assembled in his third (and really his second year) of recruiting, I'm happy to wait and see. Mullin might suck. I don't expect he will, but he might. Pronouncing that he does is premature. And pining for the previous regime is insane.
But Mullin did not inherit a mess of a program.
WTF. He inherited a roster of shit in a moribund program that has not won a tournament game this century. A program that has been in disarray for 40 years. He inherited nothing.
<slight hose for clarity>
The harder part is NOW.
Agree. He needs to show something this year. He needs to win the winnable games and split the maybe winnable games and lose the losable games repectably. If he doesn't the naysayers have a point. But two years into it it's much too soon for the sky to be falling.
-
Does the loss of Luther, change the way SJU recruit moving forward? Will the plan continue to be swing for the fences and work the transfer market.
A big issue (IMO) was at the lack of leadship and vision at the administrative level. Do people thing the AD is already working behind the scenes to find way to best support this staff? Of the sky actually does fall, how does the board think the Administration will react?
-
Does the loss of Luther, change the way SJU recruit moving forward? Will the plan continue to be swing for the fences and work the transfer market.
A big issue (IMO) was at the lack of leadship and vision at the administrative level. Do people thing the AD is already working behind the scenes to find way to best support this staff? Of the sky actually does fall, how does the board think the Administration will react?
The AD seems like a totally different kind of BS artist than the last guy. The last guy was smoother, but this guy wants you to think he cares. I think I miss Ed Manetta a lot.
-
That's not entirely fair.
I did not make my bones by being entirely fair.
The idea that he inherited an NCAA team is based on the fact he took them to the NCAA's not because he inherited a team that played in one prior. That is a huge difference. Mike Jarvis inherited an NCAA team from Fran, why? Because they went to the NCAA's the year before and returned Artest, Postell, Ty Grant, Bootsy (who would become eligible) and the top HS PG in the country coming in. 10 seniors or not he inherited a team that went 5-13, 6-12 and 6-12 in the BE in the 3 years prior to his arrival, hardly evidence he inherited an NCAA team.
The evidence that he inherited an NCAA tournament team is that the team he inherited went to the NCAA tournament. Refute that. Pro tip: you can't.
Furthermore even if you grant the fact that he "inherited an NCAA team" by definition he had to essentially replace an entire roster, you can't blame that on him. In other words you can't have it both ways, you can't say he inherited all those seniors and then dismiss the fact that he had to replace an entire roster that he inherited.
I'm not dismissing anything. He had a year to replace an entire roster that went to the NCAA tournament based upon the goodwill he inherited by being a vacuous talking head on ESPN. I understand that. But comparing the situation of a first year coach who inherits 10 seniors to one who inherits Felix Balamou is at best disingenous.
Furthermore
For the record that's two furthermores
by his 3rd year he had a 8-10 NIT team in a much more difficult conference (cannot compare the current BE to the old BE. Not even close). By his 4th year he had arguably the most talented roster at SJU in a long time even without Harkless. With Harkless it would have been right there with Villanova in the BE imho. This is where you can argue he underachieved and did not do enough. Because that is where I would agree. But either way 3 20 win seasons and 4 NIT/NCAA seasons in 5 years is not good enough. That is fine. It shouldn't be, we expect to be at a level commensurate with Nova. No reason they can't.
We can agree on this to the extent that you've implicitly stated that Lavin was an awful coach who didn't know what to do with the talent he assembled. To the extent that we don't know what Mullin will do with the talent he's assembled in his third (and really his second year) of recruiting, I'm happy to wait and see. Mullin might suck. I don't expect he will, but he might. Pronouncing that he does is premature. And pining for the previous regime is insane.
But Mullin did not inherit a mess of a program.
WTF. He inherited a roster of shit in a moribund program that has not won a tournament game this century. A program that has been in disarray for 40 years. He inherited nothing.
<slight hose for clarity>
The harder part is NOW.
Agree. He needs to show something this year. He needs to win the winnable games and split the maybe winnable games and lose the losable games repectably. If he doesn't the naysayers have a point. But two years into it it's much too soon for the sky to be falling.
I am not re-litigating the Lavin years but you simply overstate how bad he was an more importantly what he "inherited." And you continually us that false argument. You are right to denounce idiots who overstate criticism of Coach Mullin, but you need to come up with better arguments than re-writing Lavin-era history.
-
I hope Dixon and Trimble can carry the load next year, cause that will be our backcourt.
Where do you think LoVett and Ponds are going to go? They're not NBA players. Maybe one day, but they're not even close right now.
You're forgetting about Simon.
-
Looks like re-upping matt was pretty silly at this point. Going on two years in a row with minimal impact.
I think he's too focused on watching the Mets play. LOL
Who recruited Ponds, Lovett, Yawke, Ahmed, Wilson, Brown, Owens, Clark, Simon, Keita, Trimble and Roberts? Tony Chiles?
Matt did a great job first two years. Last and this not so much.
-
I am not re-litigating the Lavin years but you simply overstate how bad he was .
I don't believe it's possible to overstate how bad he was. He was a lazy recruiter, a poor tactician and a vacuous blabbermouth. And those were his good points.
-
http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/09/24/ohio-state-continues-recruiting-roll-addition-justin-ahrens/
-
http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/09/24/ohio-state-continues-recruiting-roll-addition-justin-ahrens/
Ohio State doubling down on 2 guard and Luther worried about PT at St. John's--isn't this special.