St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 01:02:25 PM »
StJohnnie75, thanks for the info on the horse...Usually when you go into that much detail on a mascot (especially when it indirectly related to the team name) it usually  won't take off...Hence the horse in glue.

I agree 100%. It was a big reach to try and tie everything together.

Foad

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2014, 07:40:50 AM »
A horse was picked as the mascot for the following reason, as the school tried to tie in the storm name:

"Boreas (Greek God) and his brother winds were often imagined as horse-shaped gods. An old Greek folk belief was that the winds Boreas and Zephyros would sweep down upon the mares in early spring and fertilize them in the shape of wind-formed stallions. The horses born from these couplings were the swiftest and finest of their kind. The fabulous horses of King Laomedon of Troy were said to have been sired in this way by Boreas upon the Trojan mares."

So they based their team mascot on gods assuming horse shapes and raping mares on the plains of ancient Greece. Sounds about right. Great moments in Spurts Marketing. Clever of them to work in Greek mythology, kids today are really into that.


Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2014, 08:12:59 AM »
Should have just renamed us Wildcats like many other schools and be done with it.

Foad

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2014, 08:41:30 AM »
Should have just renamed us Wildcats like many other schools and be done with it.

How about the Red Sperm? They could keep the Greeks and have a whores mascot.

tnice

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2014, 09:30:55 AM »
As we know,  marketing/branding plays a huge part in athletics.  If you type"st johns", "stj" and "sju" into google, you will notice that st johns university does not appear in the top results.  However, type "fsu" and florida state links come up.  The 'latin seal' logo is black and red on some pages, and blue and red on others.  The basketball team had red with black accented uniforms in 2012, now it appears to be blue accents.  On some hats or jackets, a horse is the logo, while on others a rain cloud and lightning bolt, while the mascot is  a bird.  This is not acceptable.  St. Johns was put in a tough situation after switching away from the redmen,  but since then,  it is impossible for anyone who isnt an alum/student to determine the schools mascot and colors- is it red white and black, or red white and blue?  Why are they called the Red storm but have a bird mascot, and horse logo?  When Syracuse switched from the orangemen, they made a smart move- they have stuck with one nationally recognized mascot (after some trials and errors), a simple name, and orange and blue colors.  St Johns is  a nationally recognized program.  For decades, the administration has dropped the ball in the branding of the university, and even though it seems minor, it is a big deal.  Any suggestions on what can be done? 

The mascot, logo, team name and school seal have practically nothing to  to do with the branding of any sports entity. Why so much time gets wasted debating this is beyond me.

In the early to mid 80's, in certain, ahem, urban areas, Georgetown apparel started popping up everywhere. This despite the fact that their nickname is the Hoyas, which isn't even an actual thing, and I don't remember one piece of clothing with their mascot- a bulldog- on it. How was that possible? It was possible because they were unabashedly black, played an aggressive style of basketball, and won alot. Why is Duke the favorite college team of most suburban enclaves on the East Coast? Because they play a cerebral brand of basketball , have players who would all look comfortable in an argyle sweater, and they win alot. Not because the Blue Devil is an awesome nickname or mascot. Not because their gear is rocking and cutting edge, although I believe that IS a way that schools in metro areas can help establish a brand. If you were a St Johns fan before you went to school there, or if you never went to school there, why did you become a fan? Because of the name, logo, mascot or apparel? Probably not.

Winning is the best way to establish a brand, and winning with a particular style is 1A. Having a partner like Under Armour, which is a marketing powerhouse, gives SJU a real opportunity to brand through apparel, but nobody wants to wear cool gear of a team that plays in the NIT. Once you're a consistent winner, you flood urban areas with free or reduced rate UA SJU swag, you sell $10 tickets in the second tier of MSG to any school in the NY/NJ/CT area that will take them. You partner with pop and hip hop radio stations in the area, get the trendsetters invested. Make it cool to like SJU basketball, the same way its cool to wear Under Armour. Pay Jay-Z 27 million dollars to wear a St Johns jersey in his next video, whatever.

Do that and no one will give a crap what the mascot is.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 11:28:00 AM by tnice »

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2014, 10:10:39 AM »
Should have just renamed us Wildcats like many other schools and be done with it.

How about the Red Sperm? They could keep the Greeks and have a whores mascot.

Red Foads has a nice ring to it! You pick the mascot.

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2014, 11:27:58 AM »
As we know,  marketing/branding plays a huge part in athletics.  If you type"st johns", "stj" and "sju" into google, you will notice that st johns university does not appear in the top results.  However, type "fsu" and florida state links come up.  The 'latin seal' logo is black and red on some pages, and blue and red on others.  The basketball team had red with black accented uniforms in 2012, now it appears to be blue accents.  On some hats or jackets, a horse is the logo, while on others a rain cloud and lightning bolt, while the mascot is  a bird.  This is not acceptable.  St. Johns was put in a tough situation after switching away from the redmen,  but since then,  it is impossible for anyone who isnt an alum/student to determine the schools mascot and colors- is it red white and black, or red white and blue?  Why are they called the Red storm but have a bird mascot, and horse logo?  When Syracuse switched from the orangemen, they made a smart move- they have stuck with one nationally recognized mascot (after some trials and errors), a simple name, and orange and blue colors.  St Johns is  a nationally recognized program.  For decades, the administration has dropped the ball in the branding of the university, and even though it seems minor, it is a big deal.  Any suggestions on what can be done? 

The mascot, logo, team name and school seal have practically nothing to  to do with the branding of any sports entity. Why so much time gets wasted debating this is beyond me.

In the early to mid 80's, in certain, ahem, urban areas, Georgetown apparel started popping up everywhere. This despite the fact that their nickname is the Hoyas, which isn't even an actual thing, and I don't remember one piece of clothing with their mascot- a bulldog- on it. How was that possible? It was possible because they were unabashedly black, played an aggressive style of basketball, and won alot. Why is Duke the favorite college team of most suburban enclaves on the East Coast? Because they play a cerebral brand of basketball, have players who would all look comfortable in an argyle sweater, and they win alot. Not because the Blue Devil is an awesome nickname or mascot. Not because their gear is rocking and cutting edge, although I believe that IS a way that schools in metro areas can establish a brand. If you were a St Johns fan before you went to school there, or if you never went to school there, why did you become a fan? Because of the name, logo, mascot or apparel? Probably not.

Winning is the best way to establish a brand, and winning with a particular style is 1A. Having a partner like Under Armour, which is a marketing powerhouse, gives SJU a real opportunity to brand through apparel, but nobody wants to wear cool gear of a team that plays in the NIT. Once you're a consistent winner, you flood urban areas with free or reduced rate UA SJU swag, you sell $10 tickets in the second tier of MSG to any school in the NY/NJ/CT area that will take them. You partner with pop and hip hop radio stations in the area, get the trendsetters invested. Make it cool to like SJU basketball, the same way its cool to wear Under Armour. Pay Jay-Z 27 million dollars to wear a St Johns jersey in his next video, whatever.

Do that and no one will give a crap what the mascot is.

Great post, I totally agree!
The Big East needs a strong SJU program!

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2014, 12:08:23 PM »
T wit Chain Nets b Mad smoove

Foad

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2014, 12:29:43 PM »
Should have just renamed us Wildcats like many other schools and be done with it.

How about the Red Sperm? They could keep the Greeks and have a whores mascot.

Red Foads has a nice ring to it! You pick the mascot.

The logo would be a cranky old man shaking his cane at the kids on his lawn below two crossed whiskey bottles

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2014, 12:54:08 PM »
Should have just renamed us Wildcats like many other schools and be done with it.

How about the Red Sperm? They could keep the Greeks and have a whores mascot.

Red Foads has a nice ring to it! You pick the mascot.

The logo would be a cranky old man shaking his cane at the kids on his lawn below two crossed whiskey bottles

Ha! Love it!

Foad

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2014, 07:27:18 PM »
Should have just renamed us Wildcats like many other schools and be done with it.

How about the Red Sperm? They could keep the Greeks and have a whores mascot.

Red Foads has a nice ring to it! You pick the mascot.

The logo would be a cranky old man shaking his cane at the kids on his lawn below two crossed whiskey bottles

Ha! Love it!

I related this conversation to the current and long suffering mrs foad over cocktails this evening. She suggests The Saint John's Queens might be appropriate nickname.

I am a lucky man.

nudginator59

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2014, 09:26:07 PM »
Winning does solve a lot of things but the name and mascots are part of the tradition of the school and organization. Why are the Redskins fighting so hard to keep their name and symbol? The same with trying to take the  "fighting" out of fighting Irish...Try taking Bevo away and then changing the name longhorns at UT...I won't even get started with all the traditions at Texas A&M.

The point is that  all these traditions help unite old and new alumni to the school. The problem is what is SJUs identity...In the last 20yrs we had multiple symbol, mascot, and initial changes. What ever path they go down they need to win and stabilize some of these traditions.
Cougar O' Malley

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2014, 10:00:04 PM »
I was on line at the bank today wearing my black and red SJU hat. Guy in front of me asks "you went to St. Joes?"

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2014, 10:11:01 PM »
I was on line at the bank today wearing my black and red SJU hat. Guy in front of me asks "you went to St. Joes?"

Was it Chiles?

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2014, 10:17:53 PM »
I was on line at the bank today wearing my black and red SJU hat. Guy in front of me asks "you went to St. Joes?"

Was it Chiles?

No. Hopefully he's somewhere recruiting. Or maybe he's filming LI housewives?

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2014, 10:34:56 AM »
I was on line at the bank today wearing my black and red SJU hat. Guy in front of me asks "you went to St. Joes?"

People still go into banks?

Tiznow

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2014, 03:29:14 PM »
I was on line at the bank today wearing my black and red SJU hat. Guy in front of me asks "you went to St. Joes?"

People still go into banks?

Baldi made up that part too. 

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2014, 12:41:47 AM »
Will SJU and UA complete the UA rebranding process this summer? I would like to see a new court with navy blue instead of black detail, a new SJU logo opposed to the current StJ one, and would also like to finally see those awesome skyline uniforms at CA this season. I understand that it is a process but I always assumed this summer would be when we would really start to see the UA effect on the program. Anyone have any insight/info on any potential changes? Thanks.

Poison

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Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2014, 08:56:37 AM »
Will SJU and UA complete the UA rebranding process this summer? I would like to see a new court with navy blue instead of black detail, a new SJU logo opposed to the current StJ one, and would also like to finally see those awesome skyline uniforms at CA this season. I understand that it is a process but I always assumed this summer would be when we would really start to see the UA effect on the program. Anyone have any insight/info on any potential changes? Thanks.

St.John's posts info about UA on Twitter pretty consistently. It would be nice if they stopped to think, does this matter to St.John's fans? Does it matter to a St.John's fan who isn't 11 years old? They brought these nice persons into a RedWhite function to speak, (poorly) about their new crap. If I had another couple of drinks, I would have started heckling them.

Re: St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2014, 09:02:16 AM »
I went to the UA Brand Store in Soho yesterday looking for St. John's gear. They only had two (kinda generic) SJU t shirts.  No jerseys or shorts. I was specifically looking for an SJU golf shirt - no dice.

All in all, I've seen little difference with UA so far.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 09:02:56 AM by Gray Chudney »