Some Positive Press

  • 48 replies
  • 6499 views
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2014, 03:46:12 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
And he hasn't made the tourny with them. Only with Previous coaches guys
When he makes it this year, what will you hate on next? Back to his attire?
No. I'll wait for 3 years in a row missing the tourny. Again

Baldi - serious question here, were you ever a fan of Lavin? If so - what was the turning point?

Poison

  • *****
  • 16896
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2014, 03:47:41 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
And he hasn't made the tourny with them. Only with Previous coaches guys
I think if there's one clear cut great thing that Lavin did for Norm's kids it's that he helped them realize their potential. The guy who recruited them was so lost, he didn't even know what he had. If Norm stays, our starting 5 in 2010/2011 is Boothe, Horne, DJ, Evans and Burrell/Coker. 
Lavin was the head coach that season. So, he gets the credit for leading the team to the success they had not even sniffed under Roberts. 
Boothe, Horne, Hardy, Brownlee, Evans and Burrell either showed marked improvement, or unbelievable improvement. The coach has to get credit for that. 

desco80

  • *****
  • 5072
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2014, 03:55:27 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
2011 - Big class with Harrison, Pointer, Moe etc
2012 - Sampson (part of the first class really) Obekpa, Felix, Jones, Sanchez, Marco
2013 - Jordan #17 ESPN
2014 - Thomas, ADR, JDR, Amar
2015 - Doughtry

So, as I was saying - considering that Sampson was a part of the first recruiting class, Lavin has landed one top 50 player in the last 4 classes, including this one.


boo3

  • *****
  • 6816
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2014, 03:56:38 PM »


I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
And he hasn't made the tourny with them. Only with Previous coaches guys
When he makes it this year, what will you hate on next? Back to his attire?
No. I'll wait for 3 years in a row missing the tourny. Again

 We should be so lucky that you would wait 3 years to complain/cry/bitch/troll....

desco80

  • *****
  • 5072
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2014, 03:58:20 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
And he hasn't made the tourny with them. Only with Previous coaches guys
When he makes it this year, what will you hate on next? Back to his attire?

Back to?   It never stopped bothering me.

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2014, 04:08:08 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
2011 - Big class with Harrison, Pointer, Moe etc
2012 - Sampson (part of the first class really) Obekpa, Felix, Jones, Sanchez, Marco
2013 - Jordan #17 ESPN
2014 - Thomas, ADR, JDR, Amar
2015 - Doughtry

So, as I was saying - considering that Sampson was a part of the first recruiting class, Lavin has landed one top 50 player in the last 4 classes, including this one.

Your point is clear, but counting Sampson as part of 2011 is not how it works. It adds to your argument, and I understand in order to make your argument you needed to "sway" the facts, but the fact remains he did not play for SJU in 2011, and in fact de-committed, took visits, entertained other offers, and ultimately signed back. He counts as a 2012 recruit.

If Sampson went to Kansas would you have included him in their 2011 recruiting class?

You can't include this class as it's not over yet, so there goes that argument as well.

2011 - Big class with Harrison, Pointer, Moe etc
2012 - Sampson, Obekpa, Felix, Jones, Sanchez, Marco
2013 - Jordan #17 ESPN
2014 - Thomas, ADR, JDR, Amar

3/4 years with top 50 recruits.

I'm not a Lavin supporter, but to alter the facts like that to prove a point is very misleading, and not true in any universe.

Hypothetical for you Desco - if a top 50 kid commits, doesn't qualify, goes to JUCO for 2 years, and then commit, would you count him as part of the original class, or the class 2 years after?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 04:09:55 PM by Ron Artesticles »

desco80

  • *****
  • 5072
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2014, 04:12:39 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
2011 - Big class with Harrison, Pointer, Moe etc 2012 - Sampson (part of the first class really) Obekpa, Felix, Jones, Sanchez, Marco 2013 - Jordan #17 ESPN 2014 - Thomas, ADR, JDR, Amar 2015 - Doughtry So, as I was saying - considering that Sampson was a part of the first recruiting class, Lavin has landed one top 50 player in the last 4 classes, including this one.
Your point is clear, but counting Sampson as part of 2011 is not how it works. It adds to your argument, and I understand in order to make your argument you needed to "sway" the facts, but the fact remains he did not play for SJU in 2011, and in fact de-committed, took visits, entertained other offers, and ultimately signed back. He counts as a 2012 recruit. If Sampson went to Kansas would you have included him in their 2011 recruiting class? You can't include this class as it's not over yet, so there goes that argument as well. 2011 - Big class with Harrison, Pointer, Moe etc 2012 - Sampson, Obekpa, Felix, Jones, Sanchez, Marco 2013 - Jordan #17 ESPN 2014 - Thomas, ADR, JDR, Amar 3/4 years with top 50 recruits. I'm not a Lavin supporter, but to alter the facts like that to prove a point is very misleading, and not true in any universe. Hypothetical for you Desco - if a top 50 kid commits, doesn't qualify, goes to JUCO for 2 years, and then commit, would you count him as part of the original class, or the class 2 years after?
2 years at JUCO is different than taking summer classes to come here, not getting elidgibe and going to prep school, and redeclaring for us 6mos later. 
I think it's entirely fair to count Sampson as part of the first class.   That's when Lavin started recruiting him.
But either way, even if you include Sampson there is an impression that Lavin is adding top notch talent every year.    He's not.
He's added Sampson, Obekpa, and Jordan as ranked recruits.    3.  In 3 and 1/2 seasons of recruiting.  
That's not elite recruiting anymore.   And it's not like we haven't had available scholarships.  

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2014, 04:14:54 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
2011 - Big class with Harrison, Pointer, Moe etc 2012 - Sampson (part of the first class really) Obekpa, Felix, Jones, Sanchez, Marco 2013 - Jordan #17 ESPN 2014 - Thomas, ADR, JDR, Amar 2015 - Doughtry So, as I was saying - considering that Sampson was a part of the first recruiting class, Lavin has landed one top 50 player in the last 4 classes, including this one.

You can choose to not include Sampson to make your argument stronger. That's just going against facts. There is one class that hasn't included a top 50 player. That's it. This year hasn't happened yet. It is much easier to poke holes in lavins coaching. The level he has recruited at at johns has been close to fantastic. Has he slowed down? Sure, perhaps by a large margin but let's not pretend like it's been a 4 year recruiting slump when there's three top 50 seniors, a top 75 junior, and top 30 sophomore all on this years team. 
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2014, 04:14:59 PM »
FWIW Van Coleman had Obekpa in his Top 50, though he ended up #69 in RSCI.

boo3

  • *****
  • 6816
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2014, 04:15:17 PM »
"to alter the facts like that to prove a point is very misleading, and not true in any universe. "
+1

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2014, 04:17:38 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
And he hasn't made the tourny with them. Only with Previous coaches guys
If you think my point was to prove lavin is a good basketball coach then you are totally mistaken. 
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2014, 04:23:09 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
2011 - Big class with Harrison, Pointer, Moe etc 2012 - Sampson (part of the first class really) Obekpa, Felix, Jones, Sanchez, Marco 2013 - Jordan #17 ESPN 2014 - Thomas, ADR, JDR, Amar 2015 - Doughtry So, as I was saying - considering that Sampson was a part of the first recruiting class, Lavin has landed one top 50 player in the last 4 classes, including this one.
Your point is clear, but counting Sampson as part of 2011 is not how it works. It adds to your argument, and I understand in order to make your argument you needed to "sway" the facts, but the fact remains he did not play for SJU in 2011, and in fact de-committed, took visits, entertained other offers, and ultimately signed back. He counts as a 2012 recruit. If Sampson went to Kansas would you have included him in their 2011 recruiting class? You can't include this class as it's not over yet, so there goes that argument as well. 2011 - Big class with Harrison, Pointer, Moe etc 2012 - Sampson, Obekpa, Felix, Jones, Sanchez, Marco 2013 - Jordan #17 ESPN 2014 - Thomas, ADR, JDR, Amar 3/4 years with top 50 recruits. I'm not a Lavin supporter, but to alter the facts like that to prove a point is very misleading, and not true in any universe. Hypothetical for you Desco - if a top 50 kid commits, doesn't qualify, goes to JUCO for 2 years, and then commit, would you count him as part of the original class, or the class 2 years after?
2 years at JUCO is different than taking summer classes to come here, not getting elidgibe and going to prep school, and redeclaring for us 6mos later.
I think it's entirely fair to count Sampson as part of the first class.   That's when Lavin started recruiting him.
But either way, even if you include Sampson there is an impression that Lavin is adding top notch talent every year.    He's not.
He's added Sampson, Obekpa, and Jordan as ranked recruits.    3.  In 3 and 1/2 seasons of recruiting.   
That's not elite recruiting anymore.   And it's not like we haven't had available scholarships. 

To go one step further.

Obekpa, Sampson and Jordan all committed in the spring.

So if you had run your numbers at this time any of the other years, none of them would be on your list either.

Wait until the Spring session to kill Lavin on the recruiting. I agree, the trend is not positive with his recruiting. No need to try to skew that fact with manipulating the year a recruit started playing basketball collegiately.

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2014, 04:31:06 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
And he hasn't made the tourny with them. Only with Previous coaches guys
When he makes it this year, what will you hate on next? Back to his attire?
No. I'll wait for 3 years in a row missing the tourny. Again
Baldi - serious question here, were you ever a fan of Lavin? If so - what was the turning point?
Yes I was a fan of the hire. 
Turning point is thought to say. Probably lack of improvement. As I always say, I'm not sure what's worse..not getting talent and losing, or getting the talent and still losing. 

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2014, 04:34:39 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
And he hasn't made the tourny with them. Only with Previous coaches guys
I think if there's one clear cut great thing that Lavin did for Norm's kids it's that he helped them realize their potential. The guy who recruited them was so lost, he didn't even know what he had. If Norm stays, our starting 5 in 2010/2011 is Boothe, Horne, DJ, Evans and Burrell/Coker. Lavin was the head coach that season. So, he gets the credit for leading the team to the success they had not even sniffed under Roberts. Boothe, Horne, Hardy, Brownlee, Evans and Burrell either showed marked improvement, or unbelievable improvement. The coach has to get credit for that.
So had Lavin not been the coach this year and his replacement made the tourn with Harrison, pointer, pg, Jordan, Obekpa etc, who gets the credit?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 04:35:58 PM by Marco Baldi »

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2014, 05:07:18 PM »
We are probably the only top 20 team that has 50% of the fanbase wanting to see the coach fired. 

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2014, 05:16:14 PM »
We are probably the only top 20 team that has 50% of the fanbase wanting to see the coach fired.
Probably the only top 20 team with close to no one returning

DFF6

  • *****
  • 1648
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2014, 05:21:53 PM »
We are probably the only top 20 team that has 50% of the fanbase wanting to see the coach fired.
Probably the only top 20 team with close to no one returning
Wrong.  Kentucky will have no one returning either...

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2014, 05:24:02 PM »
We are probably the only top 20 team that has 50% of the fanbase wanting to see the coach fired.
Probably the only top 20 team with close to no one returning

How many years in a row have you predicted no one returning?

boo3

  • *****
  • 6816
Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2014, 05:25:46 PM »
We are probably the only top 20 team that has 50% of the fanbase wanting to see the coach fired.
Probably the only top 20 team with close to no one returning
How many years in a row have you predicted no one returning?

 Why bother?  

Re: Some Positive Press
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2014, 07:58:09 PM »
I'll give Lavin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting until he's proven me wrong. He's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat in past years.
Since 2012 he has recruited 1 top 50 player. Jordan. (I count sampson from his original class) That's 3 full recruiting classes plus this year so far. I know you all think Im biased, but a "great" recruiter doesn't sign 1 top 50 player in 4 years.
Desco since lavins first season there has been 1 recruiting year where he didn't get a top 50 player. That's a fact.
And he hasn't made the tourny with them. Only with Previous coaches guys
When he makes it this year, what will you hate on next? Back to his attire?
No. I'll wait for 3 years in a row missing the tourny. Again
Baldi - serious question here, were you ever a fan of Lavin? If so - what was the turning point?
Yes I was a fan of the hire. Turning point is thought to say. Probably lack of improvement. As I always say, I'm not sure what's worse..not getting talent and losing, or getting the talent and still losing.


But you're a fan of Cluess who has had the best rosters in the MAAC yiyo and still hasn't coached one of them to play better defense?