6th Man of St. John's Basketball
Non-Sport Related Discussion => Off Topic => Topic started by: pmg911 on October 27, 2008, 11:05:04 AM
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Great Opinion piece in today's WSJ..
I especially like the praise for Bill Clinton. . who, while a Dem, leaned very much to the center on a lot of issues because he knew it was best for America and he put party lines aside to get things done...
Question of the two candidates in the election. . which one do you think would go against their party to get things accomplished as President..?
The Age of Prosperity Is Over
This administration and Congress will be remembered like Herbert Hoover.By ARTHUR B. LAFFER
About a year ago Stephen Moore, Peter Tanous and I set about writing a book about our vision for the future entitled "The End of Prosperity." Little did we know then how appropriate its release would be earlier this month.
Financial panics, if left alone, rarely cause much damage to the real economy, output, employment or production. Asset values fall sharply and wipe out those who borrowed and lent too much, thereby redistributing wealth from the foolish to the prudent. This process is the topic of Nassim Nicholas Taleb's book "Fooled by Randomness."
When markets are free, asset values are supposed to go up and down, and competition opens up opportunities for profits and losses. Profits and stock appreciation are not rights, but rewards for insight mixed with a willingness to take risk. People who buy homes and the banks who give them mortgages are no different, in principle, than investors in the stock market, commodity speculators or shop owners. Good decisions should be rewarded and bad decisions should be punished. The market does just that with its profits and losses.
No one likes to see people lose their homes when housing prices fall and they can't afford to pay their mortgages; nor does any one of us enjoy watching banks go belly-up for making subprime loans without enough equity. But the taxpayers had nothing to do with either side of the mortgage transaction. If the house's value had appreciated, believe you me the overleveraged homeowner and the overly aggressive bank would never have shared their gain with taxpayers. Housing price declines and their consequences are signals to the market to stop building so many houses, pure and simple.
But here's the rub. Now enter the government and the prospects of a kinder and gentler economy. To alleviate the obvious hardships to both homeowners and banks, the government commits to buy mortgages and inject capital into banks, which on the face of it seems like a very nice thing to do. But unfortunately in this world there is no tooth fairy. And the government doesn't create anything; it just redistributes. Whenever the government bails someone out of trouble, they always put someone into trouble, plus of course a toll for the troll. Every $100 billion in bailout requires at least $130 billion in taxes, where the $30 billion extra is the cost of getting government involved.
If you don't believe me, just watch how Congress and Barney Frank run the banks. If you thought they did a bad job running the post office, Amtrak, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the military, just wait till you see what they'll do with Wall Street.
Some 14 months ago, the projected deficit for the 2008 fiscal year was about 0.6% of GDP. With the $170 billion stimulus package last March, the add-ons to housing and agriculture bills, and the slowdown in tax receipts, the deficit for 2008 actually came in at 3.2% of GDP, with the 2009 deficit projected at 3.8% of GDP. And this is just the beginning.
The net national debt in 2001 was at a 20-year low of about 35% of GDP, and today it stands at 50% of GDP. But this 50% number makes no allowance for anything resulting from the over $5.2 trillion guarantee of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac assets, or the $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP). Nor does the 50% number include any of the asset swaps done by the Federal Reserve when they bailed out Bear Stearns, AIG and others.
But the government isn't finished. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid -- and yes, even Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke -- are preparing for a new $300 billion stimulus package in the next Congress. Each of these actions separately increases the tax burden on the economy and does nothing to encourage economic growth. Giving more money to people when they fail and taking more money away from people when they work doesn't increase work. And the stock market knows it.
The stock market is forward looking, reflecting the current value of future expected after-tax profits. An improving economy carries with it the prospects of enhanced profitability as well as higher employment, higher wages, more productivity and more output. Just look at the era beginning with President Reagan's tax cuts, Paul Volcker's sound money, and all the other pro-growth, supply-side policies.
Bill Clinton and Alan Greenspan added their efforts to strengthen what had begun under President Reagan. President Clinton signed into law welfare reform, so people actually have to look for a job before being eligible for welfare. He ended the "retirement test" for Social Security benefits (a huge tax cut for elderly workers), pushed the North American Free Trade Agreement through Congress against his union supporters and many of his own party members, signed the largest capital gains tax cut ever (which exempted owner-occupied homes from capital gains taxes), and finally reduced government spending as a share of GDP by an amazing three percentage points (more than the next four best presidents combined). The stock market loved Mr. Clinton as it had loved Reagan, and for good reasons.
The stock market is obviously no fan of second-term George W. Bush, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Ben Bernanke, Barack Obama or John McCain, and again for good reasons.
These issues aren't Republican or Democrat, left or right, liberal or conservative. They are simply economics, and wish as you might, bad economics will sink any economy no matter how much they believe this time things are different. They aren't.
I was on the White House staff as George Shultz's economist in the Office of Management and Budget when Richard Nixon imposed wage and price controls, the dollar was taken off gold, import surcharges were implemented, and other similar measures were enacted from a panicked decision made in August of 1971 at Camp David.
I witnessed, like everyone else, the consequences of another panicked decision to cover up the Watergate break-in. I saw up close and personal Presidents Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush succumb to panicked decisions to raise taxes, as well as Jimmy Carter's emergency energy plan, which included wellhead price controls, excess profits taxes on oil companies, and gasoline price controls at the pump.
The consequences of these actions were disastrous. Just look at the stock market from the post-Kennedy high in early 1966 to the pre-Reagan low in August of 1982. The average annual real return for U.S. assets compounded annually was -6% per year for 16 years. That, ladies and gentlemen, is a bear market. And it is something that you may well experience again. Yikes!
Then we have this administration's panicked Sarbanes-Oxley legislation, and of course the deer-in-the-headlights Mr. Bernanke in his bungling of monetary policy.
There are many more examples, but none hold a candle to what's happening right now. Twenty-five years down the line, what this administration and Congress have done will be viewed in much the same light as what Herbert Hoover did in the years 1929 through 1932. Whenever people make decisions when they are panicked, the consequences are rarely pretty. We are now witnessing the end of prosperity.
Mr. Laffer is chairman of Laffer Associates and co-author of "The End of Prosperity: How Higher Taxes Will Doom the Economy -- If We Let it Happen," just out by Threshold.
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Good article.
But the real question is which candidate is most likely to panic (fundamentally sound! oops.. I mean in the tank, fire the sec chairman! oops.. the prez can't do that, etc., etc., etc. AND/OR listen to his chief economic advisor Phil Gramm (even God won't be able to save us)
OR
lol Well.. I'll save some time..
PMG, take a deep breath and repeat your mantra...
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PMG, take a deep breath and repeat your mantra...
Go back and read the post I left you...
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Jacstorm, Im curious. Who are you voting for and why?
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Marco, I won't bore this board, but if you're serious, pm me and I'll give you my phone #.
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lol But somehow I don't think you were serious.
and you can repeat it, PMG.. makes me laugh.
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Marco, I won't bore this board, but if you're serious, pm me and I'll give you my phone #.
Whats your phone # (718) Hus-sein?
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
I can guarantee my posts are neither intelligent or clever. But they certainly are truthfull, I wish more would do the same
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..
My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..
My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...
Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..
My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...
Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now
i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.
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interesting how the article does not mention how the GDP growth of emerging markets was fueled with credit.
it important that in addition to the above article, all of the emerging markets were growing thru debt creation from the g7. now that we've had a credit crunch, they can't borrow. so now with dollars temporarily in high demand, what do they do. we'll starting seeing the iceland economic crash happening all over the world and this won't be good for the markets.
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Great Opinion piece in today's WSJ..
I especially like the praise for Bill Clinton. . who, while a Dem, leaned very much to the center on a lot of issues because he knew it was best for America and he put party lines aside to get things done...
Question of the two candidates in the election. . which one do you think would go against their party to get things accomplished as President..?
John McCain's economic proposals practically mirror George Bush's. How is that "reaching across the aisle"....?
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..
My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...
Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now
i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.
Newsman, go ahead and pull that lever that says Hussein. Than hopefully you can get a good night sleep
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..
My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...
Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now
i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.
Newsman, go ahead and pull that lever that says Hussein. Than hopefully you can get a good night sleep
Baldi I've been trying to stay out of this but this needs to be said.
I'm voting for McCain and Obama is way too far to the left for my taste since we already have a democrat congress who's numbers are about to increase
That being said this whole Obama Muslim Hussein thing is ridiculous.
You say that you dont trust or like Muslims or whatever it is you said because of 9/11. That has nothing to do with Obama and if that's the case then jewish people should be even more weary.
Well I have news for you and I really didnt want to be putting this out there but my clients daughter and son in law who essentially are clients of mine also are extremely close friends with Obama and Michelle. And when i say close I mean real close to the point they are in advertisements for Obama and have been quoted in a lot of major media.
they've been friends for probably at least 15 years.
Why do I say this now ? Because they are Jewish.
If you dont want to vote for Obama because you dont like his politics than more power to you but to not vote for him for any other reason is just flat out ridiculous
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..
My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...
Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now
i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.
Newsman, go ahead and pull that lever that says Hussein. Than hopefully you can get a good night sleep
Baldi I've been trying to stay out of this but this needs to be said.
I'm voting for McCain and Obama is way too far to the left for my taste since we already have a democrat congress who's numbers are about to increase
That being said this whole Obama Muslim Hussein thing is ridiculous.
You say that you dont trust or like Muslims or whatever it is you said because of 9/11. That has nothing to do with Obama and if that's the case then jewish people should be even more weary.
Well I have news for you and I really didnt want to be putting this out there but my clients daughter and son in law who essentially are clients of mine also are extremely close friends with Obama and Michelle. And when i say close I mean real close to the point they are in advertisements for Obama and have been quoted in a lot of major media.
they've been friends for probably at least 15 years.
Why do I say this now ? Because they are Jewish.
If you dont want to vote for Obama because you dont like his politics than more power to you but to not vote for him for any other reason is just flat out ridiculous
Well, well said.
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lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.
You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.
PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..
My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...
Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now
i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.
Newsman, go ahead and pull that lever that says Hussein. Than hopefully you can get a good night sleep
Baldi I've been trying to stay out of this but this needs to be said.
I'm voting for McCain and Obama is way too far to the left for my taste since we already have a democrat congress who's numbers are about to increase
That being said this whole Obama Muslim Hussein thing is ridiculous.
You say that you dont trust or like Muslims or whatever it is you said because of 9/11. That has nothing to do with Obama and if that's the case then jewish people should be even more weary.
Well I have news for you and I really didnt want to be putting this out there but my clients daughter and son in law who essentially are clients of mine also are extremely close friends with Obama and Michelle. And when i say close I mean real close to the point they are in advertisements for Obama and have been quoted in a lot of major media.
they've been friends for probably at least 15 years.
Why do I say this now ? Because they are Jewish.
If you dont want to vote for Obama because you dont like his politics than more power to you but to not vote for him for any other reason is just flat out ridiculous
Great post Mjmaher, but Im just stating how I feel. If I do stereotype, I cant help that-just the way it is(for me). Im trying to be honest and without a doubt my posts come off as ignorant and I do sound like a bigot. Im not going to beat around the bush (no pun intended) but I dont believe a word that comes out of these politicians mouths. Whether theyre white,black,yellow, pink or Guatemalan-theyre all full of sh it, from top to bottom. So for me its simple, Im voting for McCain-for reasons that might piss some people off. One reason being hes a bada ss who served this great Country. His service speaks volumes for me. Another reason he will get my vote is that I dont think this Country is ready for a black President. With the news of these jerkoff skinheads today,it just might prove that and I think thats just the beginning of that nonsense-it will only get worse in my opinion
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And I almost forgot. Baldi even though I might not agree with your stance on Muslims etc I do appreciate your honesty on your feelings.
Much better to be honest than to say what people want to hear. ( And we can still try and change you :) )
I might disagree with someone 1000% but if I know they are being honest I respect that.
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at least he is being honest. Scary but honest
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at least he is being honest. Scary but honest
What part is scary?
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the fact u think the country isn't ready for a black president
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the fact u think the country isn't ready for a black president
Every critcal decision he makes will be scrutinized more than before and God forbid something happens to him. This Country will be at war with itself. Chaos
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Marco,
Voting for McCain for his service.. or not for Obama because you don’t think the country is ready are reasons. I may disagree, but they’re reasons. But in other ways, you don’t just sound like a bigot, you are one. And for some reason you’re ready to accept that about yourself, “I can’t help that – just the way it is (for me)â€.
But you can help it. And for a whole host of reasons, you should. We can all grow and change for the better. And this would be a lot for the better.
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If our country isnt ready now it will never be.
I just wish he wasnt so liberal
When G W Bush was elected in 2000 I was angry because I pretty much knew then he'd be a disaster. In 04 I was even angrier.
If Obama gets elected I'm going to be pissed because I really think McCain could reshape the republican party and make the country better but I'll be proud that our country elected a black president. I'd have less of a problem voting for him now if we had a republican congress.
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Marco,
Voting for McCain for his service.. or not for Obama because you don’t think the country is ready are reasons. I may disagree, but they’re reasons. But in other ways, you don’t just sound like a bigot, you are one. And for some reason you’re ready to accept that about yourself, “I can’t help that – just the way it is (for me)”.
But you can help it. And for a whole host of reasons, you should. We can all grow and change for the better. And this would be a lot for the better.
I have reaons for my sterotyping, and they are earned and well deserved.
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My brother, stereotyping is never deserved.
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i remember when someone said baseball wasn't "ready" for a black manager..."doesn't have the necessities". now that black managers and coaches are winning championships no one even notices when one is hired.
as far as mccain turning the republican party around. the republican party will be turned around for the better once he's defeated. this guy is a loose cannon...and can you imagine palin as president? if you excuse the expression, mccain muffed that pick.
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marco the difference with this country and others is that we are not open minded at all. It's like we won't grant mexicans citizenship but we allow them to cook at our five star resturants and cut our grass. It is a double standard. This country needs to grow up seriously. I don't know if Obama is the answer but I do know we as a country needs some new life. The only choas I see happening is if god forbid he gets killed then there is gonna be alot of people acting ignorant and I will be one. It isn't fair we are ready to work for people and spend our money and vote but we are not ready to lead. When are we gonna be ready. We payed our dues what more is it gonna take. We are mayors billionares teachers cops doctors lawyers senators governers it is time my brother. Give the man a chance if he fails get him out but give him a chance
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marco the difference with this country and others is that we are not open minded at all. It's like we won't grant mexicans citizenship but we allow them to cook at our five star resturants and cut our grass. It is a double standard. This country needs to grow up seriously. I don't know if Obama is the answer but I do know we as a country needs some new life. The only choas I see happening is if god forbid he gets killed then there is gonna be alot of people acting ignorant and I will be one. It isn't fair we are ready to work for people and spend our money and vote but we are not ready to lead. When are we gonna be ready. We payed our dues what more is it gonna take. We are mayors billionares teachers cops doctors lawyers senators governers it is time my brother. Give the man a chance if he fails get him out but give him a chance
IN this particular instance I was not questioning Obamas readiness, I was questioning this Country readiness.
Who says this Country doesnt want to grant Mexicans citizenship? Plenty of Mexicans have become citizens, why not the rest? Illegal immigrants come in with their hands out,spending my hard earned tax dollars. If they want to become citizens,great- become one and pay taxes like the rest of us. If they want to cause problems and freeload, round them up and send them home. In other words, get the f out.
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i remember when someone said baseball wasn't "ready" for a black manager..."doesn't have the necessities". now that black managers and coaches are winning championships no one even notices when one is hired.
as far as mccain turning the republican party around. the republican party will be turned around for the better once he's defeated. this guy is a loose cannon...and can you imagine palin as president? if you excuse the expression, mccain muffed that pick.
If it isnt a problem in professional sports, than why is there a rule that minorties have to be interviewed when teams are searching for coaching candidates?
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IR
i remember when someone said baseball wasn't "ready" for a black manager..."doesn't have the necessities". now that black managers and coaches are winning championships no one even notices when one is hired.
as far as mccain turning the republican party around. the republican party will be turned around for the better once he's defeated. this guy is a loose cannon...and can you imagine palin as president? if you excuse the expression, mccain muffed that pick.
If it isnt a problem in professional sports, than why is there a rule that minorties have to be interviewed when teams are searching for coaching candidates?
fairness.
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i remember when someone said baseball wasn't "ready" for a black manager..."doesn't have the necessities". now that black managers and coaches are winning championships no one even notices when one is hired.
as far as mccain turning the republican party around. the republican party will be turned around for the better once he's defeated. this guy is a loose cannon...and can you imagine palin as president? if you excuse the expression, mccain muffed that pick.
If it isnt a problem in professional sports, than why is there a rule that minorties have to be interviewed when teams are searching for coaching candidates?
The rule is there because of people like you. People who prejudge and use sterotypes. Blacks would never get a sniff if the Majors was filled with people that had your attitude.
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like I said marco believe it or not I do respect ur feeling because u do have enough balls to say how u feel. But I wish u would just look at things a little different. I still will have a drink with u and watch the games next to u. I was taught to give anyone a chance. Black folks and native Americans more than anyone should be apprehensive toward white folks but we got over what happened to us. Every white man who owns a farm and carrys a gun isn't a slave master Or a supremist.
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I have reaons for my sterotyping, and they are earned and well deserved.
I definitely appreciate the honesty. I have to admit that when I stepped on an airplane after 9/11 I stereotyped. I don't know too many people who didn't. And til this day I stereotype on an airplane. I'm not proud of it but when I see something red with smoke coming out of it I stereotype that it is hot. Its instinctive.
But I just don't think Obama fits in this stereotype. The fact that he wore a turban on a diplomatic trip? What if Mccain dressed up as a Muslim for Halloween once and someone took a picture...would that disqualify him?
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Received this e-mail... thought it was interesting ..
Here is a creative approach to redistribution of wealth as offered by a reader of the local newspaper, the Eagle Tribune.
Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.
Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed--just imagine the coincidence.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone whom I deemed more in need--the
homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.
I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.
I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.
IS REDISTRIBUTION OF SOMEONE ELSE'S WEALTH A GREAT IDEA..............OR JUST A FOOL'S POLITICAL GAME !!
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Received this e-mail... thought it was interesting ..
Here is a creative approach to redistribution of wealth as offered by a reader of the local newspaper, the Eagle Tribune.
Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.
Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed--just imagine the coincidence.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone whom I deemed more in need--the
homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.
I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.
I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.
IS REDISTRIBUTION OF SOMEONE ELSE'S WEALTH A GREAT IDEA..............OR JUST A FOOL'S POLITICAL GAME !!
nice email. i never understood redistribution of wealth to non-tax payers in this country.
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returning to the tax codes of the clinton isn't exactly "redistributing the wealth" as the super greedy would have you believe.
that homeless guy may have been a hard worker at one time whose job was cut by corporate mergers. i should point out veterans make up a large percentage of the homeless. these are all taxpayers who want to pay taxes again.
an ideal america is where people love the red white and blue more than the green.
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returning to the tax codes of the clinton isn't exactly "redistributing the wealth" as the super greedy would have you believe.
that homeless guy may have been a hard worker at one time whose job was cut by corporate mergers. i should point out veterans make up a large percentage of the homeless. these are all taxpayers who want to pay taxes again.
an ideal america is where people love the red white and blue more than the green.
returning to the tax codes of the clinton isn't exactly "redistributing the wealth" as the super greedy would have you believe.
that homeless guy may have been a hard worker at one time whose job was cut by corporate mergers. i should point out veterans make up a large percentage of the homeless. these are all taxpayers who want to pay taxes again.
an ideal america is where people love the red white and blue more than the green.
why do you call people who are succesful greedy... those people you are calling greedy already pay 50% or higher in income tax... you can't really believe its remotely fair to ask more of those people...
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returning to the tax codes of the clinton isn't exactly "redistributing the wealth" as the super greedy would have you believe.
that homeless guy may have been a hard worker at one time whose job was cut by corporate mergers. i should point out veterans make up a large percentage of the homeless. these are all taxpayers who want to pay taxes again.
an ideal america is where people love the red white and blue more than the green.
PUULEEEZE. If you truly believe this, your naive.
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returning to the tax codes of the clinton isn't exactly "redistributing the wealth" as the super greedy would have you believe.
that homeless guy may have been a hard worker at one time whose job was cut by corporate mergers. i should point out veterans make up a large percentage of the homeless. these are all taxpayers who want to pay taxes again.
an ideal america is where people love the red white and blue more than the green.
PUULEEEZE. If you truly believe this, your naive.
he's just a bleeding heart liberal.
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returning to the tax codes of the clinton isn't exactly "redistributing the wealth" as the super greedy would have you believe.
that homeless guy may have been a hard worker at one time whose job was cut by corporate mergers. i should point out veterans make up a large percentage of the homeless. these are all taxpayers who want to pay taxes again.
an ideal america is where people love the red white and blue more than the green.
PUULEEEZE. If you truly believe this, your naive.
he's just a bleeding heart liberal.
if he goes any further left. . he is going to be 3 feet from China...
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returning to the tax codes of the clinton isn't exactly "redistributing the wealth" as the super greedy would have you believe.
that homeless guy may have been a hard worker at one time whose job was cut by corporate mergers. i should point out veterans make up a large percentage of the homeless. these are all taxpayers who want to pay taxes again.
an ideal america is where people love the red white and blue more than the green.
PUULEEEZE. If you truly believe this, your naive.
he's just a bleeding heart liberal.
I love when people use the term "bleeding heart." Basically you're calling them sensitive to those less fortunate?
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he's just a bleeding heart liberal.
I love when people use the term "bleeding heart." Basically you're calling them sensitive to those less fortunate?
In case you didn't know...and it appears you don't...it's a term meant to mock those left wing loons that think every conservative would just as soon walkover somebody as help them up. Bleeding heart liberals are self righteous and arrogant and think they are the only ones who care about the less fortunate. Sound familiar?
As they say...If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're older, you have no brain.
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Over the years I've voted all over the map... and was a McCain supporter 8 years ago. But he's a sorry embarrassment now. As are many (but not all) of his supporters.
"Bleeding heart liberal"? I laughed so hard when I read that I almost fell out of my chair.
Such old, tired nonsense. Might as well call someone a stinking abolitionist. Can you be any more out of date? But it's kind of fitting. An out of date discredited philosophy (lol can you say Greenspan?) deserves 'brainy' conservatives spouting nonsensical, nasty epithets. Fits with the whole McCain, Palin Rovian campaign.
I'm sure they'd say gfy as well, PMG. It's all they.. and you.. have left. Kinda sad.
btw.. You might want to teach your mantra to some of these others... repeat after me.. 'There are none so blind as those that will not see'.
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Over the years I've voted all over the map... and was a McCain supporter 8 years ago. But he's a sorry embarrassment now. As are many (but not all) of his supporters.
"Bleeding heart liberal"? I laughed so hard when I read that I almost fell out of my chair.
Such old, tired nonsense. Might as well call someone a stinking abolitionist. Can you be any more out of date? But it's kind of fitting. An out of date discredited philosophy (lol can you say Greenspan?) deserves 'brainy' conservatives spouting nonsensical, nasty epithets. Fits with the whole McCain, Palin Rovian campaign.
You supported Mccain? Somehow I doubt that.
Abolitionist, Greenspan, epithets, Rovian...wtf are you talking about? Talk about nonsensical.
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I can't front I am 26 social studies want my favorite subject but u guys sound hella smart even when u are dissing each other. Not one curse word yet I have to step my argument game up
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lol Sorry, Johnny... I did support McCain and I also thought you were brighter than you clearly are...
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I can't front I am 26 social studies want my favorite subject but u guys sound hella smart even when u are dissing each other. Not one curse word yet I have to step my argument game up
This here a wide table my brother and I for one welcome yo thought.
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Anyways, y'all best believe I had mad respct fo McCain 'til he pandered to the radicals in his party and then worse, gettin all Karl Rove on Barack wit this helacious smear campaign.
John McCain use to stand fo sometin. He wuz the anti-Bush, the anti-Cheney, the anti-Rove, the commons sense dogooder in his party. He truly had hisself integrety when he stood up to that hate-filled machine back in '00 and onward.
He lost hisself some of that in the last few month.
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Let me try and put it simpler… in the last four years we have seen the most concentrated attempt to dismantle our democracy by an administration that we’ve ever seen. A short list: making torture American policy, illegally tapping phones and opening mail, suspending Habeas, creating hideous kangaroo courts for those the government names ‘terrorists’, lying to the congress and the public to justify going to war, politicizing the Justice departmnent, wrong headed and disastrous economic policies, and on and on and on…
And you want more of the same? And Palin as a bonus??
Who is it that doesn’t have a brain?
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Anyways, y'all best believe I had mad respct fo McCain 'til he pandered to the radicals in his party and then worse, gettin all Karl Rove on Barack wit this helacious smear campaign.
John McCain use to stand fo sometin. He wuz the anti-Bush, the anti-Cheney, the anti-Rove, the commons sense dogooder in his party. He truly had hisself integrety when he stood up to that hate-filled machine back in '00 and onward.
He lost hisself some of that in the last few month.
Helacious smear campaign? I don't agree. I honestly don't think its been that bad. What has McCain done that is so horrible in your opinion? I can think of two off the top of my head Ayers which IMO is fair game and the whole sex education to kindergartners which bordered on absurd. To his credit he has stayed away from Reverend Wright issue.
McCain was never good at campaigns and unfortunately he pandered to the far right to win the primary and couldn't get back to center for this election. I still have a lot of respect for him though. Would he make a good president? Honestly...I don't know. Right now I'm leaning towards no.
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Let me try and put it simpler… in the last four years we have seen the most concentrated attempt to dismantle our democracy by an administration that we’ve ever seen. A short list: making torture American policy, illegally tapping phones and opening mail, suspending Habeas, creating hideous kangaroo courts for those the government names ‘terrorists’, lying to the congress and the public to justify going to war, politicizing the Justice departmnent, wrong headed and disastrous economic policies, and on and on and on…
And you want more of the same? And Palin as a bonus??
Who is it that doesn’t have a brain?
Your first mistake is thinking I'm happy with George Bush.
Your second mistake is reading too many liberal blogs. Dismantle Democracy? A little overdramatic don't you think. I thought you had some common sense when I read some of your earlier posts but these last two posts make you seem really out there.
Just for kicks I'll go down your list:
1) "Making torture American policy"-I agree with you and so does John McCain. However, to be honest I enjoyed to hear that KSM was tortured.
2)"Illegally tapping phones and opening mail"- Didn't Barack vote for it? Whether you want to admit it or not we are in a war with terrorists. Or maybe you think 9/11 was an inside job? Anyway if the NSA listening in on a few of my phone calls during a time of war helps stop terrorist attacks then so be it.
3)"Suspending Habeas, creating hideous kangaroo courts for those the government names ‘terrorists’"-Just how many people have been affected by this? You act like there's Japanese internment camps reopening.
4)"Lying to the congress and the public to justify going to war" - I agree with you sort of. But there were more reasons for going to war than just WMD. Not enough time to go into them here.
5)"politicizing the Justice departmnent"-Yeah thats never been done before
6)"wrong headed and disastrous economic policies" - Just what are those? There are many reasons for our current economic situation. The biggest is Fannie and Freddie guaranteeing loans. Banks didn't care who they were giving loans to because they were just selling them off. That's all George Bush and the Republican's fault? Everyone...the American public and Democrats and Republicans turned a blind eye to the credit markets because it helped fuel our economic boom. Now its blowing up in our face but lets lay all the blame on Bush if it makes you feel better.
7) "More of the same?" Keep singing that campaign slogan but McCain is not George Bush. Not even close.
8 ) "Palin as a bonus?" She was a bad pick. The McCain campaign didn't let her get out and be herself so the media painted her as a wacko(for all I know she could be one). She blew some interviews and I don't see how she recovers. Palin most likely costs McCain the election.
Other than the fact that he is not a republican why are you voting for Obama? Because everybody I talk to that says they are voting for Obama say it is because of Bush but none of them seem to agree with his policies.
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Jumpin',
Kinda less fun when we actually discuss issues, but it's probably wise and I'll respect it.
Trouble is, our posts will just get longer and longer, and it's unlikely either of us will convince the other.Let's just say that I think there are truly compelling reasons not to vote for McCain; and even more compelling reasons to vote for Obama. I'm always willing to discuss it off the board if you want.
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Once again I wanna give a bx shout out to JJ fo settin up this here board where men lay done they arms and discuss topics in tru civilized way.
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Did anyone get a degree or more in Economics (the initial topic)?
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have one in marketing/economics.
it's from st john's though.
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Did anyone get a degree or more in Economics (the initial topic)?
Finance major/Economics minor
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To those using the "socialist" and "un-American" argument against Barack Obama, wouldn't you say that wiretapping is a basic violation of the Constitution, therefor making it "un-American"?
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20080606_adviser_mccain_backs_bushs_wiretaps/
I actually support wiretapping phones, but I can't stand hearing this "un-American" argument from people...
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Over the years I've voted all over the map... and was a McCain supporter 8 years ago. But he's a sorry embarrassment now. As are many (but not all) of his supporters.
"Bleeding heart liberal"? I laughed so hard when I read that I almost fell out of my chair.
Such old, tired nonsense. Might as well call someone a stinking abolitionist. Can you be any more out of date? But it's kind of fitting. An out of date discredited philosophy (lol can you say Greenspan?) deserves 'brainy' conservatives spouting nonsensical, nasty epithets. Fits with the whole McCain, Palin Rovian campaign.
You supported Mccain? Somehow I doubt that.
Abolitionist, Greenspan, epithets, Rovian...wtf are you talking about? Talk about nonsensical.
I doubt it too.
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i also support wiretaps...with a court order.
no one can tell me the government can't scrounge up a judge to allow eavesdropping on potential terrorists. you just need the inconvenience of showing cause.
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Did anyone get a degree or more in Economics (the initial topic)?
Economics major as well.