Mike Rice - here we go again

Come on.  Let's not turn this into an issue it isn't.  Matt A is highly visible publicly from a recruiting standpoint.  St. Jean is highly visible when it comes to in-game coaching and practice, less so with recruiting although he's been out there, most notably on Jordan Brown and the kid from out West that went to Kansas a few years back.  He also had an article from a respected publication lauding his abilities as a young-up-and-coming coach.  You don't have to anywhere near an "insider" to see that Richmond is the logical person to replace, irrespective of what his role on the staff actually is (and he doesn't get mentioned anywhere in recruiting or in-game coaching).  It has nothing to do with race - the guy is Mullin's closest friend in the program by a landslide -- and to try to insinuate that it is about race is the exact type of nonsense that leads to the garbage we see in the press today and will be the quickest way to get folks to tune off this message board.

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on May 24, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Think it should be Richmond to get demoted if Rice comes aboard but can someone tell me what exactly Dan Matic does.  I've never heard of him out on the recruiting trail.  I thought he was hired because he was highly thought of in the ny area.

I’ve had suspicions that Richmond wasn’t adding much to the staff, but without knowing the day to day, how can we point a finger at him over another St.John’s assistant coach? St.Jean, or even Matt. And there’s another guy. I don’t even know who that other guy is.

Think it should be Richmond to get demoted if Rice comes aboard but can someone tell me what exactly Dan Matic does.  I've never heard of him out on the recruiting trail.  I thought he was hired because he was highly thought of in the ny area.

Why is Matic getting heat? He's just the DOBO and can't actively recruit. Mullin won't demote his boy. That is not in his character. He might ask him if he's interested in accepting the special advisor role with the same salary and less responsibility. My guess is that is a better fit for what he wants.

Quote from: Foryoureyesonly88 on May 23, 2018, 10:30:33 PM

Quote from: paultzman on May 23, 2018, 02:48:42 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on May 23, 2018, 02:33:28 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on May 23, 2018, 12:56:21 PM

There will be a bit of a cosmetic perception issue if he is hired and Mitch is demoted or worse he leaves.  That is not having a prominent African-American assistant on staff. 

While it should not matter this is a real fact...

Other staffs will attempt to use it as a negative recruiting tool..

Yup, as one other BE team did apparently not so long ago.

I freaking knew that race can play a role in recruiting. I absolutely freaking knew it.

All those redmen folks kept telling me “ No, it shouldn’t matter”.  I knew it.

Ugh!!!!

I hope that one day employers can see past color.

Cops too

Quote from: Poison on May 23, 2018, 10:40:37 PM

Quote from: Foryoureyesonly88 on May 23, 2018, 10:30:33 PM

Quote from: paultzman on May 23, 2018, 02:48:42 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on May 23, 2018, 02:33:28 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on May 23, 2018, 12:56:21 PM

There will be a bit of a cosmetic perception issue if he is hired and Mitch is demoted or worse he leaves.  That is not having a prominent African-American assistant on staff. 

While it should not matter this is a real fact...

Other staffs will attempt to use it as a negative recruiting tool..

Yup, as one other BE team did apparently not so long ago.

I freaking knew that race can play a role in recruiting. I absolutely freaking knew it.

All those redmen folks kept telling me “ No, it shouldn’t matter”.  I knew it.

Ugh!!!!

I hope that one day employers can see past color.

Cops too

+1

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on May 24, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Think it should be Richmond to get demoted if Rice comes aboard but can someone tell me what exactly Dan Matic does.  I've never heard of him out on the recruiting trail.  I thought he was hired because he was highly thought of in the ny area.

Why is Matic getting heat? He's just the DOBO and can't actively recruit. Mullin won't demote his boy. That is not in his character. He might ask him if he's interested in accepting the special advisor role with the same salary and less responsibility. My guess is that is a better fit for what he wants.

Or another shoe drops. You never know.

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on May 24, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Think it should be Richmond to get demoted if Rice comes aboard but can someone tell me what exactly Dan Matic does.  I've never heard of him out on the recruiting trail.  I thought he was hired because he was highly thought of in the ny area.

Why is Matic getting heat? He's just the DOBO and can't actively recruit. Mullin won't demote his boy. That is not in his character. He might ask him if he's interested in accepting the special advisor role with the same salary and less responsibility. My guess is that is a better fit for what he wants.

My understanding of the way recruiting works is that you're allowed 3 people to be out on the trail in addition to your head coach.  Doesn't matter if it's an assistant coach or dobo.

Quote from: simplyred on May 24, 2018, 05:33:16 PM

Quote from: Poison on May 23, 2018, 10:40:37 PM

Quote from: Foryoureyesonly88 on May 23, 2018, 10:30:33 PM

Quote from: paultzman on May 23, 2018, 02:48:42 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on May 23, 2018, 02:33:28 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on May 23, 2018, 12:56:21 PM

There will be a bit of a cosmetic perception issue if he is hired and Mitch is demoted or worse he leaves.  That is not having a prominent African-American assistant on staff. 

While it should not matter this is a real fact...

Other staffs will attempt to use it as a negative recruiting tool..

Yup, as one other BE team did apparently not so long ago.

I freaking knew that race can play a role in recruiting. I absolutely freaking knew it.

All those redmen folks kept telling me “ No, it shouldn’t matter”.  I knew it.

Ugh!!!!

I hope that one day employers can see past color.

Cops too

+1

Those damn cops. They are the problem. nice personic posts

Quote from: Marillac on May 24, 2018, 04:28:51 PM

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on May 24, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Think it should be Richmond to get demoted if Rice comes aboard but can someone tell me what exactly Dan Matic does.  I've never heard of him out on the recruiting trail.  I thought he was hired because he was highly thought of in the ny area.

Why is Matic getting heat? He's just the DOBO and can't actively recruit. Mullin won't demote his boy. That is not in his character. He might ask him if he's interested in accepting the special advisor role with the same salary and less responsibility. My guess is that is a better fit for what he wants.

Or another shoe drops. You never know.

How many feet do we have?

I absolutely think Richmond should be be replaced. But if you hire mike rice, what happens to st. Jean? He has been coaching the team for the most part from day 1. Now who is in charge of practice? Who is in charge of game planning?

I absolutely think Richmond should be be replaced. But if you hire mike rice, what happens to st. Jean? He has been coaching the team for the most part from day 1. Now who is in charge of practice? Who is in charge of game planning?

Rice - Defense and rebounding
St. Jean - Offense

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:35:11 PM

I absolutely think Richmond should be be replaced. But if you hire mike rice, what happens to st. Jean? He has been coaching the team for the most part from day 1. Now who is in charge of practice? Who is in charge of game planning?

Rice - Defense and rebounding
St. Jean - Offense

Not sure if those 2 would get along. Think they will annoy the shit out of each other. But By far best idea yet.

Quote from: Marillac on May 24, 2018, 07:39:45 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:35:11 PM

I absolutely think Richmond should be be replaced. But if you hire mike rice, what happens to st. Jean? He has been coaching the team for the most part from day 1. Now who is in charge of practice? Who is in charge of game planning?

Rice - Defense and rebounding
St. Jean - Offense

Not sure if those 2 would get along. Think they will annoy the shit out of each other. But By far best idea yet.

Yeah, because we'd be the only staff in the country with 2 assistants that can coach, gameplan, and run a practice. You should probably sit the next few plays out, champ.

I think what you get with Rice is somebody who’s experienced, can add a lot to practice, film and gameplanning, and isn’t too good to go out and scout and recruit.  He’s a tireless worker.  I’m not saying that it has to be Rice we hire, he just seems like a good fit being local with good connections and with the type of drive that we need in places we might not have it. 

Matt A can still be our lead recruiter, but it can’t hurt to have another assistant that recruits and has good connections and enjoys getting on the road and landing players and is also a gym rat with skill work and practices...

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:53:56 PM

Quote from: Marillac on May 24, 2018, 07:39:45 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:35:11 PM

I absolutely think Richmond should be be replaced. But if you hire mike rice, what happens to st. Jean? He has been coaching the team for the most part from day 1. Now who is in charge of practice? Who is in charge of game planning?

Rice - Defense and rebounding
St. Jean - Offense

Not sure if those 2 would get along. Think they will annoy the shit out of each other. But By far best idea yet.

Yeah, because we'd be the only staff in the country with 2 assistants that can coach, gameplan, and run a practice. You should probably sit the next few plays out, champ.

Sir, usually the head coach is in charge. Usually the head coach has a system that he has honed over many years before he gets to big east. Their should be an offensive and defensive philosophy that that has not only been thought about but practiced and improved though out the years. Usually assistant coaches are hired with thought and are put in position to ASSIST the head coach.
That doesn’t happen here. So hopefully st. Jean can coach the offense and mike rice can coach the defense.

Quote from: goredmen on May 24, 2018, 08:11:33 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:53:56 PM

Quote from: Marillac on May 24, 2018, 07:39:45 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:35:11 PM

I absolutely think Richmond should be be replaced. But if you hire mike rice, what happens to st. Jean? He has been coaching the team for the most part from day 1. Now who is in charge of practice? Who is in charge of game planning?

Rice - Defense and rebounding
St. Jean - Offense

Not sure if those 2 would get along. Think they will annoy the shit out of each other. But By far best idea yet.

Yeah, because we'd be the only staff in the country with 2 assistants that can coach, gameplan, and run a practice. You should probably sit the next few plays out, champ.

Sir, usually the head coach is in charge. Usually the head coach has a system that he has honed over many years before he gets to big east. Their should be an offensive and defensive philosophy that that has not only been thought about but practiced and improved though out the years. Usually assistant coaches are hired with thought and are put in position to ASSIST the head coach.
That doesn’t happen here. So hopefully st. Jean can coach the offense and mike rice can coach the defense.

This response makes no sense to what you are replying to. What makes you think GSJ and Mike Rice wouldn't get along? Do you think Mullin would be doing the right thing if he adds Mike Rice to the staff in place of Mitch Richmond?

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on May 24, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Think it should be Richmond to get demoted if Rice comes aboard but can someone tell me what exactly Dan Matic does.  I've never heard of him out on the recruiting trail.  I thought he was hired because he was highly thought of in the ny area.

Why is Matic getting heat? He's just the DOBO and can't actively recruit. Mullin won't demote his boy. That is not in his character. He might ask him if he's interested in accepting the special advisor role with the same salary and less responsibility. My guess is that is a better fit for what he wants.

How much less responsibility can Richmond have? Any less and he will be doing absolutely nothing.

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 08:20:45 PM

Quote from: goredmen on May 24, 2018, 08:11:33 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:53:56 PM

Quote from: Marillac on May 24, 2018, 07:39:45 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:35:11 PM

I absolutely think Richmond should be be replaced. But if you hire mike rice, what happens to st. Jean? He has been coaching the team for the most part from day 1. Now who is in charge of practice? Who is in charge of game planning?

Rice - Defense and rebounding
St. Jean - Offense

Not sure if those 2 would get along. Think they will annoy the shit out of each other. But By far best idea yet.

Yeah, because we'd be the only staff in the country with 2 assistants that can coach, gameplan, and run a practice. You should probably sit the next few plays out, champ.

Sir, usually the head coach is in charge. Usually the head coach has a system that he has honed over many years before he gets to big east. Their should be an offensive and defensive philosophy that that has not only been thought about but practiced and improved though out the years. Usually assistant coaches are hired with thought and are put in position to ASSIST the head coach.
That doesn’t happen here. So hopefully st. Jean can coach the offense and mike rice can coach the defense.

This response makes no sense to what you are replying to. What makes you think GSJ and Mike Rice wouldn't get along? Do you think Mullin would be doing the right thing if he adds Mike Rice to the staff in place of Mitch Richmond?

I think st. Jean coaches the team for the most part. I think he runs most of the practices. I think he is in charge of the walk throughs. I think he is the man speaking during film sessions. Now he loses much of his authority? Mike rice is going to sit there and watch this young guy? Take orders from him?
Coaching staffs need to blend and work together. 1 voice. I think mike rice is a good coach. I think st. Jean can be. Who is in charge? Do these guys compliment each other?

Quote from: goredmen on May 24, 2018, 08:31:57 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 08:20:45 PM

Quote from: goredmen on May 24, 2018, 08:11:33 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:53:56 PM

Quote from: Marillac on May 24, 2018, 07:39:45 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on May 24, 2018, 07:35:11 PM

I absolutely think Richmond should be be replaced. But if you hire mike rice, what happens to st. Jean? He has been coaching the team for the most part from day 1. Now who is in charge of practice? Who is in charge of game planning?

Rice - Defense and rebounding
St. Jean - Offense

Not sure if those 2 would get along. Think they will annoy the shit out of each other. But By far best idea yet.

Yeah, because we'd be the only staff in the country with 2 assistants that can coach, gameplan, and run a practice. You should probably sit the next few plays out, champ.

Sir, usually the head coach is in charge. Usually the head coach has a system that he has honed over many years before he gets to big east. Their should be an offensive and defensive philosophy that that has not only been thought about but practiced and improved though out the years. Usually assistant coaches are hired with thought and are put in position to ASSIST the head coach.
That doesn’t happen here. So hopefully st. Jean can coach the offense and mike rice can coach the defense.

This response makes no sense to what you are replying to. What makes you think GSJ and Mike Rice wouldn't get along? Do you think Mullin would be doing the right thing if he adds Mike Rice to the staff in place of Mitch Richmond?

I think st. Jean coaches the team for the most part. I think he runs most of the practices. I think he is in charge of the walk throughs. I think he is the man speaking during film sessions. Now he loses much of his authority? Mike rice is going to sit there and watch this young guy? Take orders from him?
Coaching staffs need to blend and work together. 1 voice. I think mike rice is a good coach. I think st. Jean can be. Who is in charge? Do these guys compliment each other?

Have you ever been around an organized basketball team before? Thinking that one assistant is going to be "giving orders" to another one is laughable even with how hands-off Mullin may be. Almost every other staff has at least two assistants that do advanced scouting and talk during film sessions. When it's GSJ's scout he will be the point man on the preparation for the upcoming game as it relates to the opponent's tendencies. When it's Rice's scout he will be the point man. It happens at every other program in the country without issue.

Having only one assistant capable of these things over the past 3 years is a legitimate gripe with Mullin. I and many others (including you Tony) have been voicing the need for another quality assistant for almost 2 years now. Now that Mullin might actually do it you are just looking for a reason it might not be a good idea just because you don't like Mullin.

MDS is real folks.

I think rice should be hired to replace st. Jean. I think another coach should be hired to replace Mitch and work with rice.
I have been on  HS football staffs with very good coaches that didn’t mesh. Especially with hands off head coaches. The linebacker coach (who may be a great coach and excellent defensive coordinator) is a terrible linebacker coach if he doesn’t mesh with the current defenses coordinator. A lesser coach could be better just by playing his role. That is my point.

St. Jean in my opinion is over his head. I think he needs to be replaced. If not replaced hire someone who will support him. Maybe rice could be that guy. But I don’t think it’s a slam dunk.

I think rice should be hired to replace st. Jean. I think another coach should be hired to replace Mitch and work with rice.
I have been on  HS football staffs with very good coaches that didn’t mesh. Especially with hands off head coaches. The linebacker coach (who may be a great coach and excellent defensive coordinator) is a terrible linebacker coach if he doesn’t mesh with the current defenses coordinator. A lesser coach could be better just by playing his role. That is my point.

There is absolutely zero reason to believe Rice and GSJ wouldn't get along or that Rice would get along better with another random assistant than he would with St. Jean.

I
St. Jean in my opinion is over his head. I think he needs to be replaced. If not replaced hire someone who will support him. Maybe rice could be that guy. But I don’t think it’s a slam dunk.

GSJ isn't going to get replaced. They will hire somebody to support him. Mike Rice happens to be a former successful head coach that knows the game well, so there are probably not many guys more qualified than him willing to come here. And again, there's absolutely no reason to believe any other potential replacement would get along better or worse with GSJ than Rice would. It's completely baseless speculation for which the motivations are very clear