Ecomonics

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pmg911

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Ecomonics
« on: October 27, 2008, 11:05:04 AM »
Great Opinion piece in today's WSJ..

I especially like the praise for Bill Clinton. . who, while a Dem, leaned very much to the center on a lot of issues because he knew it was best for America and he put party lines aside to get things done...


Question   of the two candidates in the election. . which one do you think would go against their party to get things accomplished as President..?


The Age of Prosperity Is Over
This administration and Congress will be remembered like Herbert Hoover.By ARTHUR B. LAFFER

About a year ago Stephen Moore, Peter Tanous and I set about writing a book about our vision for the future entitled "The End of Prosperity." Little did we know then how appropriate its release would be earlier this month.

Financial panics, if left alone, rarely cause much damage to the real economy, output, employment or production. Asset values fall sharply and wipe out those who borrowed and lent too much, thereby redistributing wealth from the foolish to the prudent. This process is the topic of Nassim Nicholas Taleb's book "Fooled by Randomness."

When markets are free, asset values are supposed to go up and down, and competition opens up opportunities for profits and losses. Profits and stock appreciation are not rights, but rewards for insight mixed with a willingness to take risk. People who buy homes and the banks who give them mortgages are no different, in principle, than investors in the stock market, commodity speculators or shop owners. Good decisions should be rewarded and bad decisions should be punished. The market does just that with its profits and losses.

No one likes to see people lose their homes when housing prices fall and they can't afford to pay their mortgages; nor does any one of us enjoy watching banks go belly-up for making subprime loans without enough equity. But the taxpayers had nothing to do with either side of the mortgage transaction. If the house's value had appreciated, believe you me the overleveraged homeowner and the overly aggressive bank would never have shared their gain with taxpayers. Housing price declines and their consequences are signals to the market to stop building so many houses, pure and simple.

But here's the rub. Now enter the government and the prospects of a kinder and gentler economy. To alleviate the obvious hardships to both homeowners and banks, the government commits to buy mortgages and inject capital into banks, which on the face of it seems like a very nice thing to do. But unfortunately in this world there is no tooth fairy. And the government doesn't create anything; it just redistributes. Whenever the government bails someone out of trouble, they always put someone into trouble, plus of course a toll for the troll. Every $100 billion in bailout requires at least $130 billion in taxes, where the $30 billion extra is the cost of getting government involved.

If you don't believe me, just watch how Congress and Barney Frank run the banks. If you thought they did a bad job running the post office, Amtrak, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the military, just wait till you see what they'll do with Wall Street.

Some 14 months ago, the projected deficit for the 2008 fiscal year was about 0.6% of GDP. With the $170 billion stimulus package last March, the add-ons to housing and agriculture bills, and the slowdown in tax receipts, the deficit for 2008 actually came in at 3.2% of GDP, with the 2009 deficit projected at 3.8% of GDP. And this is just the beginning.

The net national debt in 2001 was at a 20-year low of about 35% of GDP, and today it stands at 50% of GDP. But this 50% number makes no allowance for anything resulting from the over $5.2 trillion guarantee of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac assets, or the $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP). Nor does the 50% number include any of the asset swaps done by the Federal Reserve when they bailed out Bear Stearns, AIG and others.

But the government isn't finished. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid -- and yes, even Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke -- are preparing for a new $300 billion stimulus package in the next Congress. Each of these actions separately increases the tax burden on the economy and does nothing to encourage economic growth. Giving more money to people when they fail and taking more money away from people when they work doesn't increase work. And the stock market knows it.

The stock market is forward looking, reflecting the current value of future expected after-tax profits. An improving economy carries with it the prospects of enhanced profitability as well as higher employment, higher wages, more productivity and more output. Just look at the era beginning with President Reagan's tax cuts, Paul Volcker's sound money, and all the other pro-growth, supply-side policies.

Bill Clinton and Alan Greenspan added their efforts to strengthen what had begun under President Reagan. President Clinton signed into law welfare reform, so people actually have to look for a job before being eligible for welfare. He ended the "retirement test" for Social Security benefits (a huge tax cut for elderly workers), pushed the North American Free Trade Agreement through Congress against his union supporters and many of his own party members, signed the largest capital gains tax cut ever (which exempted owner-occupied homes from capital gains taxes), and finally reduced government spending as a share of GDP by an amazing three percentage points (more than the next four best presidents combined). The stock market loved Mr. Clinton as it had loved Reagan, and for good reasons.

The stock market is obviously no fan of second-term George W. Bush, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Ben Bernanke, Barack Obama or John McCain, and again for good reasons.

These issues aren't Republican or Democrat, left or right, liberal or conservative. They are simply economics, and wish as you might, bad economics will sink any economy no matter how much they believe this time things are different. They aren't.

I was on the White House staff as George Shultz's economist in the Office of Management and Budget when Richard Nixon imposed wage and price controls, the dollar was taken off gold, import surcharges were implemented, and other similar measures were enacted from a panicked decision made in August of 1971 at Camp David.

I witnessed, like everyone else, the consequences of another panicked decision to cover up the Watergate break-in. I saw up close and personal Presidents Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush succumb to panicked decisions to raise taxes, as well as Jimmy Carter's emergency energy plan, which included wellhead price controls, excess profits taxes on oil companies, and gasoline price controls at the pump.

The consequences of these actions were disastrous. Just look at the stock market from the post-Kennedy high in early 1966 to the pre-Reagan low in August of 1982. The average annual real return for U.S. assets compounded annually was -6% per year for 16 years. That, ladies and gentlemen, is a bear market. And it is something that you may well experience again. Yikes!

Then we have this administration's panicked Sarbanes-Oxley legislation, and of course the deer-in-the-headlights Mr. Bernanke in his bungling of monetary policy.

There are many more examples, but none hold a candle to what's happening right now. Twenty-five years down the line, what this administration and Congress have done will be viewed in much the same light as what Herbert Hoover did in the years 1929 through 1932. Whenever people make decisions when they are panicked, the consequences are rarely pretty. We are now witnessing the end of prosperity.

Mr. Laffer is chairman of Laffer Associates and co-author of "The End of Prosperity: How Higher Taxes Will Doom the Economy -- If We Let it Happen," just out by Threshold.

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 11:55:10 AM »
Good article.

But the real question is which candidate is most likely to panic (fundamentally sound! oops.. I mean in the tank, fire the sec chairman! oops.. the prez can't do that, etc., etc., etc. AND/OR listen to his chief economic advisor Phil Gramm (even God won't be able to save us)

OR

lol Well.. I'll save some time..

PMG, take a deep breath and repeat your mantra...

pmg911

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Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 11:57:54 AM »


PMG, take a deep breath and repeat your mantra...

Go back and read the post I left you...

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 12:03:40 PM »
Jacstorm, Im curious. Who are you voting for and why?

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 12:08:44 PM »
Marco, I won't bore this board, but if you're serious, pm me and I'll give you my phone #.

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 12:10:59 PM »
lol But somehow I don't think you were serious.

and you can repeat it, PMG.. makes me laugh.

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 12:14:59 PM »
Marco, I won't bore this board, but if you're serious, pm me and I'll give you my phone #.

Whats your phone # (718) Hus-sein?

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 12:30:51 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 12:32:38 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.

I can guarantee my posts are neither intelligent or clever. But they certainly are truthfull, I wish more would do the same

pmg911

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Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2008, 12:36:10 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.


PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..

My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...


Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 12:40:07 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.


PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..

My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...



Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 12:40:32 PM by Marco Baldi »

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2008, 12:56:22 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.


PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..

My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...



Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now

i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2008, 03:36:00 PM »
interesting how the article does not mention how the GDP growth of emerging markets was fueled with credit.

it important that in addition to the above article, all of the emerging markets were growing thru debt creation from the g7. now that we've had a credit crunch, they can't borrow. so now with dollars temporarily in high demand, what do they do. we'll starting seeing the iceland economic crash happening all over the world and this won't be good for the markets.

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2008, 04:28:47 PM »
Great Opinion piece in today's WSJ..

I especially like the praise for Bill Clinton. . who, while a Dem, leaned very much to the center on a lot of issues because he knew it was best for America and he put party lines aside to get things done...


Question   of the two candidates in the election. . which one do you think would go against their party to get things accomplished as President..?


John McCain's economic proposals practically mirror George Bush's.  How is that "reaching across the aisle"....?
"When excuses become your reason for losing then it is time to find the nearest mirror." -Mike Dunlap

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2008, 06:22:11 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.


PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..

My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...



Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now

i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.

Newsman, go ahead and pull that lever that says Hussein. Than hopefully you can get a good night sleep

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2008, 07:36:16 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.


PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..

My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...



Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now

i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.

Newsman, go ahead and pull that lever that says Hussein. Than hopefully you can get a good night sleep

Baldi I've been trying to stay out of this but this needs to be said.

I'm voting for McCain and Obama is way too far to the left for my taste since we already have a democrat congress who's numbers are about to increase

That being said this whole Obama Muslim Hussein thing is ridiculous.

You say that you dont trust or like Muslims or whatever it is you said because of 9/11. That has nothing to do with Obama and if that's the case then jewish people should be even more weary.

Well I have news for you and I really didnt want to be putting this out there but my clients daughter and son in law who essentially are clients of mine also are extremely close friends with Obama and Michelle. And when i say close I mean real close to the point they are in advertisements for Obama and have been quoted in a lot of major media.

they've been friends for probably at least 15 years.

Why do I say this now ? Because they are Jewish.

If you dont want to vote for Obama because you dont like his politics than more power to you but to not vote for him for any other reason is just flat out ridiculous

peter

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Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2008, 07:45:48 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.


PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..

My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...



Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now

i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.

Newsman, go ahead and pull that lever that says Hussein. Than hopefully you can get a good night sleep

Baldi I've been trying to stay out of this but this needs to be said.

I'm voting for McCain and Obama is way too far to the left for my taste since we already have a democrat congress who's numbers are about to increase

That being said this whole Obama Muslim Hussein thing is ridiculous.

You say that you dont trust or like Muslims or whatever it is you said because of 9/11. That has nothing to do with Obama and if that's the case then jewish people should be even more weary.

Well I have news for you and I really didnt want to be putting this out there but my clients daughter and son in law who essentially are clients of mine also are extremely close friends with Obama and Michelle. And when i say close I mean real close to the point they are in advertisements for Obama and have been quoted in a lot of major media.

they've been friends for probably at least 15 years.

Why do I say this now ? Because they are Jewish.

If you dont want to vote for Obama because you dont like his politics than more power to you but to not vote for him for any other reason is just flat out ridiculous
Well, well said.

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2008, 08:33:09 PM »
lol Hard to pick between the intelligent and clever responses I get. Let's see.. you or PMG? Man, it's a tough choice.

You would be better served by spending your time trying to look and grow beyond your prejudices. Might still vote for the same guy, but at least you'd have real reasons.


PLEASE don't pu my name even in a post that has anything to do with prejudices..

My reasons for my dislike of Barack Obama as a candidate for President have absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin...



Im not voting for a guy who wears a turbin. Not now

i don't know why you choose to keep embarassing yourself.

Newsman, go ahead and pull that lever that says Hussein. Than hopefully you can get a good night sleep

Baldi I've been trying to stay out of this but this needs to be said.

I'm voting for McCain and Obama is way too far to the left for my taste since we already have a democrat congress who's numbers are about to increase

That being said this whole Obama Muslim Hussein thing is ridiculous.

You say that you dont trust or like Muslims or whatever it is you said because of 9/11. That has nothing to do with Obama and if that's the case then jewish people should be even more weary.

Well I have news for you and I really didnt want to be putting this out there but my clients daughter and son in law who essentially are clients of mine also are extremely close friends with Obama and Michelle. And when i say close I mean real close to the point they are in advertisements for Obama and have been quoted in a lot of major media.

they've been friends for probably at least 15 years.

Why do I say this now ? Because they are Jewish.

If you dont want to vote for Obama because you dont like his politics than more power to you but to not vote for him for any other reason is just flat out ridiculous

Great post Mjmaher, but Im just stating how I feel. If I do stereotype, I cant help that-just the way it is(for me). Im trying to be honest and without a doubt my posts come off as ignorant and I do sound like a bigot. Im not going to beat around the bush (no pun intended) but I dont believe a word that comes out of these politicians mouths. Whether theyre white,black,yellow, pink or Guatemalan-theyre all full of sh it, from top to bottom. So for me its simple, Im voting for McCain-for reasons that might piss some people off. One reason being hes a bada ss who served this great Country. His service speaks volumes for me. Another reason he will get my vote is that I dont think this Country is ready for a black President. With the news of these jerkoff skinheads today,it just might prove that and I think thats just the beginning of that nonsense-it will only get worse in my opinion
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 08:42:47 PM by Marco Baldi »

Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2008, 08:42:09 PM »
And I almost forgot. Baldi even though I might not agree with your stance on Muslims etc I do appreciate your honesty on your feelings.

Much better to be honest than to say what people want to hear. ( And we can still try and change you :)  )

I might disagree with someone 1000% but if I know they are being honest I respect that.

kob24

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Re: Ecomonics
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2008, 08:54:25 PM »
at least he is being honest. Scary but honest