6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: peter on September 10, 2008, 12:05:04 PM
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Nothing new here, but Athlon Sports' preview (as mentioned on the other sites) have St. John's at the bottom of the Big East. Unlike other publications, the Storm are below South frickin' Florida.
Obviously the games still need to be played, and of course there are lots of ifs that aren't being accounted for* and we know that. I'm wondering if anyone has last year's Athlon report, and what the prediction was of the Red Storm team there. I remember a number of preseason previews had the team at around 13th in the league.
*(logically, what's the chance that someone among Thomas/ Kennedy/ Coker/ Burrell/ Boothe don't improve? Horne put up good numbers on the court but didn't play much, and I don't think he's going to fall off.)
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Wow we have reached a new low... I didnt expect to be in the upper or middle tier in the preseason rankings but I didnt think we would be last either
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An aside: I don't have a Rivals subscription, so could anyone who does tell me what this: http://depaul.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=848601 says? DePaul's Rivals site has the Storm at 16 as well, but I bet they bit from Athlon.
Other observers (espn, crackedsidewalks blog, providence journal) have St. John's at 13 or 14.
Actually, I was wrong about those: Providence Journal has the Storm at 15 http://www.projo.com/pc/content/sp_bkc_kevin_mcnamara27_07-27-08_MLB0J59_v10.395ad4b.html
ESPN has the squad at 13: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/notebook?page=notebook/shootaround/bigeast
Cracked Sidewalks at 15 (but I think his methodology was really lazy): http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/08/big-east-preview-part-one.html
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So what? Its preseason polls....games aren't played on paper. Let people take us for granted.
Also I think the worst teams in the conference will be Depaul, Seton Hall, and South Florida. I also think anywhere from 8-16 is very up for grabs.
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So what? Its preseason polls....games aren't played on paper. Let people take us for granted.
Also I think the worst teams in the conference will be Depaul, Seton Hall, and South Florida. I also think anywhere from 8-16 is very up for grabs.
I agree with you JJ. However, I don't see us getting any higher than 9th this year.
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An aside: I don't have a Rivals subscription, so could anyone who does tell me what this: http://depaul.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=848601 says? DePaul's Rivals site has the Storm at 16 as well, but I bet they bit from Athlon.
The Demons Den Staff
St. John's Are Able To Score In The Post, But The Question Mark Is Their Perimeter
Someone has to bring up the rear, and the sixteenth best team in the 2008-2009 Big East Men's Basketball season is the St. John's Red Storm. Norm Roberts led his team to an 11-19 campaign (5-13 in the Big East), however lost more than he gained, as Roberts got a group of role players, where St. John's needed a four or five star recruit to anchor their backcourt.
St. John's Strengths
The Red Storm have two outstanding players, with one possibly becoming a star in the Big East.
Sophomore power forward Justin Burrell had an outstanding freshmen season, averaging 10.8 points and 5.9 rebounds, but those numbers truly do not describe his outstanding talent. Burrell might be one of the very best athletes in the country, and has a mean-streak around the rim that will help on both sides of the ball.
Senior Anthony Mason Jr. is the other bright spot for The Red Storm, as he averaged 14.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.3 assists in an injury-rittled junior campaign. Mason is a talented penetrator and streaky shooter that can score in flurries.
Both Burrell and Mason Jr. give The Red Storm a very strong frontline in the Big East.
St. John's Weaknesses
Where the frontline is St. John's strength, their backcourt is their weakness, as they lost two key contributors in Eugene Lawrence and Larry Wright. The Red Storm are going to be looking to two freshmen in TyShwan Edmondson and Quincy Roberts to run their offense and score from the perimeter. St. John's was one of the worst offensive teams in the country last year, and having freshmen anchor your backcourt is never a good sign for improvement...at least for this season.
To go along with their backcourt, their other weakness is their perimeter shooting, where they shot 33.3% from the arc, and an awful 40.9% overall. Their strength is their frontline and around the basket, however if The Red Storm cannot extend the defense with some outside shooting, their post play will suffer.
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this is why so many of us puked when we heard norm was getting at least another year. i can't predict anything until i've seen whether anyone has improved over the summer...but the people who make money prognosticating are all in lock step. it could be another long winter.
it appears he addressed his recruiting weaknesses by bringing in young and cross.
the x's and o's are another story.
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JJ - you know I agree. I do think it's interesting that St. John's is so poorly regarded by some, but better regarded than others.
Additionally, I would like to find old Athlon reports and compare how accurate they have been (if I make some time I will try to do that with some other popular predictor sites, see what they tend to miss). And what is injury-"rittled?" At least they got Ty's name right.
That DePaul preview is absolutely nice personic, though. Are they going to kidnap Malik Boothe? Come on. By the way, I'm not sure how many of these guys make any more money than I do from my blog (except for ESPN).
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An aside: I don't have a Rivals subscription, so could anyone who does tell me what this: http://depaul.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=848601 says? DePaul's Rivals site has the Storm at 16 as well, but I bet they bit from Athlon.
The Demons Den Staff
St. John's Are Able To Score In The Post, But The Question Mark Is Their Perimeter
Someone has to bring up the rear, and the sixteenth best team in the 2008-2009 Big East Men's Basketball season is the St. John's Red Storm. Norm Roberts led his team to an 11-19 campaign (5-13 in the Big East), however lost more than he gained, as Roberts got a group of role players, where St. John's needed a four or five star recruit to anchor their backcourt.
St. John's Strengths
The Red Storm have two outstanding players, with one possibly becoming a star in the Big East.
Sophomore power forward Justin Burrell had an outstanding freshmen season, averaging 10.8 points and 5.9 rebounds, but those numbers truly do not describe his outstanding talent. Burrell might be one of the very best athletes in the country, and has a mean-streak around the rim that will help on both sides of the ball.
Senior Anthony Mason Jr. is the other bright spot for The Red Storm, as he averaged 14.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.3 assists in an injury-rittled junior campaign. Mason is a talented penetrator and streaky shooter that can score in flurries.
Both Burrell and Mason Jr. give The Red Storm a very strong frontline in the Big East.
St. John's Weaknesses
Where the frontline is St. John's strength, their backcourt is their weakness, as they lost two key contributors in Eugene Lawrence and Larry Wright. The Red Storm are going to be looking to two freshmen in TyShwan Edmondson and Quincy Roberts to run their offense and score from the perimeter. St. John's was one of the worst offensive teams in the country last year, and having freshmen anchor your backcourt is never a good sign for improvement...at least for this season.
To go along with their backcourt, their other weakness is their perimeter shooting, where they shot 33.3% from the arc, and an awful 40.9% overall. Their strength is their frontline and around the basket, however if The Red Storm cannot extend the defense with some outside shooting, their post play will suffer.
No mention of 5'4" Malik Boothe.
He very well may be the key to the season.
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I think Athlon, and many other pre-season pubs are putting too much weight on our new backcourt.
Lawrence, whom I loved until last year, was the main reason why we struggled in the big east.
For whatever reason, he just stop focusing and playing hard. Larry Wright will be missed. There is no way around it.
Even if he didn't d up like Horne and Boothe, he was an outside threat, and if Quincy Roberts and Tyshawn Edmonson can't replace his 3 point touch, we will feel it, but we have 8 sophomores who were inexperienced freshman last year.
Burrell will improve upon his numbers. I see 13 and 6.5.
If Thomas is finally healthy, we can use him at more than position.
Kennedy showed promise last year. So did Horne.
Plenty is up in the air, so I understand the last place finish, but against teams like Rutgers and South Florida, we looked like Duke.
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malik isn't 5'4
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Screw "athlon"... and SJU is DEFINITELY not finishing last in the Big East.. lol .. This team is already "light years" ahead of last years bunch. Once again, our BEST player missed a 1/3 of the season(and played the rest on one foot), our freshmen "hit the wall" & our senior point guard was DREADFULL in every way possible on the basketball court.. ::) ::) .. Mase is now 100% healthy, our frosh are now sophs & all of them hit the weights "hard"... plus, just about the entire class(burrell, dj, horne, coker, evans) stayed on campus this summer & worked on their games TOGETHER instead of going "home".... and by all accounts Boothe has gotten quicker/stronger & will be twice the point guard that Lawrence EVER was for SJU.. :) .. once again, barring any MAJOR injuries this team will at worst be a middle of the pack team in the BE this year. Just remember, u heard it here first.. ;) .. peace!
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Screw "athlon"... and SJU is DEFINITELY not finishing last in the Big East.. lol .. This team is already "light years" ahead of last years bunch. Once again, our BEST player missed a 1/3 of the season(and played the rest on one foot), our freshmen "hit the wall" & our senior point guard was DREADFULL in every way possible on the basketball court.. ::) ::) .. Mase is now 100% healthy, our frosh are now sophs & all of them hit the weights "hard"... plus, just about the entire class(burrell, dj, horne, coker, evans) stayed on campus this summer & worked on their games TOGETHER instead of going "home".... and by all accounts Boothe has gotten quicker/stronger & will be twice the point guard that Lawrence EVER was for SJU.. :) .. once again, barring any MAJOR injuries this team will at worst be a middle of the pack team in the BE this year. Just remember, u heard it here first.. ;) .. peace!
Middle of the pack means that SJU will be on the bubble for an NCAA tournament birth. Are you sticking by that?
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malik isn't 5'4
(http://www.hoopskills.com/images/miva/blacksshoe.jpg)
Unless they measured him in these, he's also not 5'8."
When the average Big East pg is 6'+, his size and outside shot are liabilities.
Among players that averaged 15+ mpg, he was the worst shooter, 30.9%, in the Big East.
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Even if he didn't d up like Horne and Boothe, he was an outside threat, and if Quincy Roberts and Tyshawn Edmonson can't replace his 3 point touch, we will feel it,
Sorry bre, but we gonna feel it.
Hard to replace a shooter like LW 'specially wit frosh.
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Screw "athlon"... and SJU is DEFINITELY not finishing last in the Big East.. lol .. This team is already "light years" ahead of last years bunch. Once again, our BEST player missed a 1/3 of the season(and played the rest on one foot), our freshmen "hit the wall" & our senior point guard was DREADFULL in every way possible on the basketball court.. ::) ::) .. Mase is now 100% healthy, our frosh are now sophs & all of them hit the weights "hard"... plus, just about the entire class(burrell, dj, horne, coker, evans) stayed on campus this summer & worked on their games TOGETHER instead of going "home".... and by all accounts Boothe has gotten quicker/stronger & will be twice the point guard that Lawrence EVER was for SJU.. :) .. once again, barring any MAJOR injuries this team will at worst be a middle of the pack team in the BE this year. Just remember, u heard it here first.. ;) .. peace!
I think its has something to do with the month of September that makes you go looney tunes......
Last year you got banned from Big East Boards for posting the same hate filled message 170x over 5 hours and this year you are making these wild predcitions all over the place...
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Or at least those point guards say they're over 6 foot. I call for measurements on that one - Jonny Flynn is no six footer, but he's listed as such. It's basketball height! And Marquette's backcourt has two relative "little people," Louisville, Pitt, and Notre Dame both have guys who try and stretch the tape to 6... Boothe is quick enough that his liability is his shot itself, not the guys guarding him.
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ok b
malik isn't 5'4
(http://www.hoopskills.com/images/miva/blacksshoe.jpg)
Unless they measured him in these, he's also not 5'8."
When the average Big East pg is 6'+, his size and outside shot are liabilities.
Among players that averaged 15+ mpg, he was the worst shooter, 30.9%, in the Big East.
Ok but he still isn't 5'4 that's alot of hate
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JJ - you know I agree. I do think it's interesting that St. John's is so poorly regarded by some, but better regarded than others.
Additionally, I would like to find old Athlon reports and compare how accurate they have been (if I make some time I will try to do that with some other popular predictor sites, see what they tend to miss). And what is injury-"rittled?" At least they got Ty's name right.
That DePaul preview is absolutely nice personic, though. Are they going to kidnap Malik Boothe? Come on. By the way, I'm not sure how many of these guys make any more money than I do from my blog (except for ESPN).
last year, athlon picked us for 11th...with the comment, "norm roberts' rebuilding project is headed in the right direction". the year we won the nit, they had us pre-season 23rd.
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Even if he didn't d up like Horne and Boothe, he was an outside threat, and if Quincy Roberts and Tyshawn Edmonson can't replace his 3 point touch, we will feel it,
Sorry bre, but we gonna feel it.
Hard to replace a shooter like LW 'specially wit frosh.
We are not replacing Wright with frosh. Horne will be the starting two guard. He is a MUCH better defender & finisher on the break... and his shooting improved as the season wore on. He too has gotten bigger/stronger and improved his jumper as well this summer. Plus, with a healthy Thomas on the team. Mase will be playig some 2 this year as well. Our frosh are also both better defenders than him & Roberts can really shoot it as well. Once again, wright went to oakland(lol) for a reason & will not be missed in the least imo... of course all of this REMAINS to be seen. In other words, talk to me after the season & we'll discuss just how much LW was "missed" this year. U could be right choz, but i doubt it on this one brotha.. ;) .. btw - one thing is for sure... lawrence will NOT be missed runnin' the point. PERIOD.
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nah old red Paris is coming off the bench
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nah old red Paris is coming off the bench
I think Paris can do some damage off the bench. Kob who ya got for the starting 5?
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nah old red Paris is coming off the bench
We'll see about that kob.. ;) .. regardless, my main point was we are NOT replacing wright with a freshman. Because if it's not Horne, than it will be either Mase or Kennedy at the two spot... with paris coming off the bench. I could live with either scenario at this point. Here are some possible line ups :
g - boothe
g - mase
f - kennedy
f - burrell
c - coker
OR
g - boothe
g - kennedy
f - mase
f - thomas
f - burrell
OR
g - boothe
g - horne
f - kennedy
f - mase
c - burrell
p.s. - regardless of who "starts"... the top 8 in the "rotation" will be : boothe, mase, kennedy, burrell, coker, horne, thomas & evans imo.. :) .. peace!
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boothe,dj,mase,just blaze,and dele
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if mase is our PF he will be eaten alive.
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if mase is our PF he will be eaten alive.
No one is saying Mase is "our PF" hero... but when we go "small", depending on the match-ups, he could play the position for a stretch here or there. He is just about 6'8, has long arms, can rebound & has added some more muscle this year.
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boothe,dj,mase,just blaze,and dele
I could live with that line-up kob.. 8) .. peace!
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if mase is our PF he will be eaten alive.
No one is saying Mase is "our PF" hero... but when we go "small", depending on the match-ups, he could play the position for a stretch here or there. He is just about 6'8, has long arms, can rebound & has added some more muscle this year.
6'8"? Are we even looking at the same player?
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6'8"? Are we even looking at the same player?
Yes, through those Red Kool aid flavor SJU glasses supplied by Norm Roberts! ;)
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I don't think the coach thinks of Mase as 6'8", even.
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What is with the infatuation with height lately ? In highschool I played center and I am only 6'4/6'5 and I held my own against guys that were 7'1... The point im trying to make is that who cares how tall a player is? I have seen dominant centers at 6'6 and i have seen dominant point guards at 6'6. Lets just hope Mase plays to his abilities no matter what his height is.
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6'8"? Are we even looking at the same player?
Yes, through those Red Kool aid flavor SJU glasses supplied by Norm Roberts! ;)
will you learn how to use the quote button already....its so much easier
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What is with the infatuation with height lately ? In highschool I played center and I am only 6'4/6'5 and I held my own against guys that were 7'1... The point im trying to make is that who cares how tall a player is? I have seen dominant centers at 6'6 and i have seen dominant point guards at 6'6. Lets just hope Mase plays to his abilities no matter what his height is.
I understand your point but when you reach a certain level height does become more of a factor however I agree that guys of different body shapes can play various positions. Ben Wallace is only 6'7/6'8 but the guy is a mac truck.
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KJD, you're right, but Mase is a wing-forward. He's listed at 6'7" but in reality he's more like 6'5" or so.
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Mase is a legit 6'7 no more no less.
I'm curious to his wingspan though he might have a 6'10-7' wingspan
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wingspan is all that matters.
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KJD, you're right, but Mase is a wing-forward. He's listed at 6'7" but in reality he's more like 6'5" or so.
Are u serious with this NONSENSE.. lol .. Mase is easily a legit 6'7 and i only say closer to 6'8 because if u see him, burrell & evans together(like i did recently) u can hardly tell a difference in their height. Plus, the kid has put on a noticable amount of weight/muscle as well.... my ONLY point in referencing his height was to establish that he could "handle" the 4 spot on occasion when we go small. Nothing more, nothing less.
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yea, horne isnt starting
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Who care how tall he is.
Big thing is if he improve what he need to improve: drivin, takin contact and knowin when and when not to stroke the J.
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Who care how tall he is.
Big thing is if he improve what he need to improve: drivin, takin contact and knowin when and when not to stroke the J.
He's got $$$ signs flashing in his head. He will shoot whenever he get's the chance.
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Hey, if Mase can hit those shots, he can have all the dollar signs he wants. This team needs a scorer. When he drives for the dunk effectively he's at his best. I hope he realizes that his long-range 2-point shots were wildly ineffective (especially after he tried to shake a defender). Take the high-reward shot or slash.
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An aside: I don't have a Rivals subscription, so could anyone who does tell me what this: http://depaul.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=848601 says? DePaul's Rivals site has the Storm at 16 as well, but I bet they bit from Athlon.
St. John's Are Able To Score In The Post, But The Question Mark Is Their Perimeter
Someone has to bring up the rear, and the sixteenth best team in the 2008-2009 Big East Men's Basketball season is the St. John's Red Storm. Norm Roberts led his team to an 11-19 campaign (5-13 in the Big East), however lost more than he gained, as Roberts got a group of role players, where St. John's needed a four or five star recruit to anchor their backcourt.
St. John's Strengths
The Red Storm have two outstanding players, with one possibly becoming a star in the Big East.
Sophomore power forward Justin Burrell had an outstanding freshmen season, averaging 10.8 points and 5.9 rebounds, but those numbers truly do not describe his outstanding talent. Burrell might be one of the very best athletes in the country, and has a mean-streak around the rim that will help on both sides of the ball.
Senior Anthony Mason Jr. is the other bright spot for The Red Storm, as he averaged 14.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.3 assists in an injury-rittled junior campaign. Mason is a talented penetrator and streaky shooter that can score in flurries.
Both Burrell and Mason Jr. give The Red Storm a very strong frontline in the Big East.
St. John's Weaknesses
Where the frontline is St. John's strength, their backcourt is their weakness, as they lost two key contributors in Eugene Lawrence and Larry Wright. The Red Storm are going to be looking to two freshmen in TyShwan Edmondson and Quincy Roberts to run their offense and score from the perimeter. St. John's was one of the worst offensive teams in the country last year, and having freshmen anchor your backcourt is never a good sign for improvement...at least for this season.
To go along with their backcourt, their other weakness is their perimeter shooting, where they shot 33.3% from the arc, and an awful 40.9% overall. Their strength is their frontline and around the basket, however if The Red Storm cannot extend the defense with some outside shooting, their post play will suffer.
No mention of 5'4" Malik Boothe.
He very well may be the key to the season.
I agree that Boothe may be the key to the season... "IF" he can hit the open shot! He can definitely create looks for other people... which will translate into some easy baskets. However, if he can't hit the open jumper... it's going to see alot of zone defense or double teams on other SJU players (most likely mase and burrell).
However, he may not be the key to the season "IF" Edmondson plays up to the hype he has gotten on this board (from the Edmondson believers of course!).
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St. John's Weaknesses -
Where the frontline is St. John's strength, their backcourt is their weakness, as they lost two key contributors in Eugene Lawrence and Larry Wright. The Red Storm are going to be looking to two freshmen in TyShwan Edmondson and Quincy Roberts to run their offense and score from the perimeter. St. John's was one of the worst offensive teams in the country last year, and having freshmen anchor your backcourt is never a good sign for improvement...at least for this season.
However, he(boothe) may not be the key to the season "IF" Edmondson plays up to the hype he has gotten on this board (from the Edmondson believers of course!).
What idiot wrote this "synopsis" on SJU? Is this athlons or just some "genius" from the Depaul rivals site?.. ::) ::) ::) .. First of all the only thing geno "contributed" was countless turnovers, missed shots & blown fast breaks... secondly, Edmondson & Roberts are most likely our 9 & 10 the guys off the bench... let alone "starters".. lol ... Boothe & either Mase/Horne will be the starting backcourt on this team. Not to mention, the fact they never even mention boothe or rob thomas... probably the two KEY players on this years team imo... shows just how much of a JOKE their "prediction" is.. PERIOD.
btw - i guess u could say i have "hyped" edmondson on this board. But i also CLEARLY stated that the kid NEEDS to put on at least 15 lbs & tighten up his handle before we can count on him for signifigant minutes on the court.. :) .. all we need from him this year is to provide some "relief" at both guard spots & play good defense off the bench.
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St. John's Weaknesses -
Where the frontline is St. John's strength, their backcourt is their weakness, as they lost two key contributors in Eugene Lawrence and Larry Wright. The Red Storm are going to be looking to two freshmen in TyShwan Edmondson and Quincy Roberts to run their offense and score from the perimeter. St. John's was one of the worst offensive teams in the country last year, and having freshmen anchor your backcourt is never a good sign for improvement...at least for this season.
However, he(boothe) may not be the key to the season "IF" Edmondson plays up to the hype he has gotten on this board (from the Edmondson believers of course!).
What idiot wrote this "synopsis" on SJU? Is this athlons or just some "genius" from the Depaul rivals site?.. ::) ::) ::) .. First of all the only thing geno "contributed" was countless turnovers, missed shots & blown fast breaks... secondly, Edmondson & Roberts are most likely our 9 & 10 the guys off the bench... let alone "starters".. lol ... Boothe & either Mase/Horne will be the starting backcourt on this team. Not to mention, the fact they never even mention boothe or rob thomas... probably the two KEY players on this years team imo... shows just how much of a JOKE their "prediction" is.. PERIOD.
btw - i guess u could say i have "hyped" edmondson on this board. But i also CLEARLY stated that the kid NEEDS to put on at least 15 lbs & tighten up his handle before we can count on him for signifigant minutes on the court.. :) .. all we need from him this year is to provide some "relief" at both guard spots & play good defense off the bench.
All I was trying to say is that Boothe could possibly "make us" or "break us". Make us by creating alot of easy baskets.... and/or break us by not being able to shoot and thus... creating a 5 on 4 for the defense. I agree that Edmondson will only provide some relief and both guard spots and play good d off the bench. However, some people on this board have made him out to be a huge sleeper.
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I don't think its unfair to say our backcourt is our weakness. Losing Geno/Larry will hurt us in a sense. I know people hated on Geno but he did do somethings that will be missed. He got to the FT line a lot which helped us in areas that don't neccessarily show up in boxscores. Getting guys in foul trouble and putting us in the bonus. Geno also played pretty good defense, he always came up with key steals and bodied up pretty well against opposing PGs. I'm not sure his positives outweighed his negatives but there are some things we will miss.
Larry will be sorely missed he was and still would be the best shooter on this team by far. The only thing you can say is that he barely played so his production could be replaced.
We have a lot of unknowns so we don't exactly know whether we'll be better or worse.
Do I think Malik could be better than Geno? Yes and he should hopefully make others on the floor better as well but again Malik will have his short comings too.
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I don't think its unfair to say our backcourt is our weakness. Losing Geno/Larry will hurt us in a sense. I know people hated on Geno but he did do somethings that will be missed. He got to the FT line a lot which helped us in areas that don't neccessarily show up in boxscores. Getting guys in foul trouble and putting us in the bonus. Geno also played pretty good defense, he always came up with key steals and bodied up pretty well against opposing PGs. I'm not sure his positives outweighed his negatives but there are some things we will miss.
Larry will be sorely missed he was and still would be the best shooter on this team by far. The only thing you can say is that he barely played so his production could be replaced.
We have a lot of unknowns so we don't exactly know whether we'll be better or worse.
Do I think Malik could be better than Geno? Yes and he should hopefully make others on the floor better as well but again Malik will have his short comings too.
Wright will be missed, but Geno was one of the worst players on the team last year.
He just terrible at running the offense, and he was phoning it in.
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All I was trying to say is that Boothe could possibly "make us" or "break us". Make us by creating alot of easy baskets.... and/or break us by not being able to shoot and thus... creating a 5 on 4 for the defense.
Was David Cain able to shoot? With him I don´t think that it was created a 5 on 4 for the defense.
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referring to malik...i dont think you guys understand how much of an impact a seemingly "quiet" point guard can make...we say it alot but it really isnt necessary for him to score more than 5 points a game...he needs to be able to knock down open shots from inside the arc, which any player who has more than 3 years of experience playing the game should be able to do, distribute the ball without turnovers, and play good defense...that right there, makes him a hell of a lot better than geno...so after that, take what should be a much improved all around team, which only lost a streaky shooter who couldn't play inside the arc anywhere near consistently and lacked energy, focus, and defensive presence, and you have a team which will do better than its previous season
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All I was trying to say is that Boothe could possibly "make us" or "break us". Make us by creating alot of easy baskets.... and/or break us by not being able to shoot and thus... creating a 5 on 4 for the defense.
Was David Cain able to shoot? With him I don´t think that it was created a 5 on 4 for the defense.
One again my man gonzalez make a great point.
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referring to malik...i dont think you guys understand how much of an impact a seemingly "quiet" point guard can make...we say it alot but it really isnt necessary for him to score more than 5 points a game...he needs to be able to knock down open shots from inside the arc, which any player who has more than 3 years of experience playing the game should be able to do, distribute the ball without turnovers, and play good defense...that right there, makes him a hell of a lot better than geno...so after that, take what should be a much improved all around team, which only lost a streaky shooter who couldn't play inside the arc anywhere near consistently and lacked energy, focus, and defensive presence, and you have a team which will do better than its previous season
So do this brother.
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referring to malik...i dont think you guys understand how much of an impact a seemingly "quiet" point guard can make...we say it alot but it really isnt necessary for him to score more than 5 points a game...he needs to be able to knock down open shots from inside the arc, distribute the ball without turnovers, and play good defense...that right there, makes him a hell of a lot better than geno...so after that, take what should be a much improved all around team, which only lost a streaky shooter who couldn't play inside the arc anywhere near consistently and lacked energy, focus, and defensive presence, and you have a team which will do better than its previous season
Could not agree more SJD.. 8) ... keep the rational, level-headed posts coming dude.
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it's not like malik is walking in off the street. he got decent minutes on an eleven win team last year. don't expect him to be the savior this year.
and david cain was a FAR better shooter. yes, he ran hot and cold...but malik is no david cain. not yet, anyway.
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referring to malik...i dont think you guys understand how much of an impact a seemingly "quiet" point guard can make...we say it alot but it really isnt necessary for him to score more than 5 points a game...he needs to be able to knock down open shots from inside the arc, which any player who has more than 3 years of experience playing the game should be able to do, distribute the ball without turnovers, and play good defense...that right there, makes him a hell of a lot better than geno...so after that, take what should be a much improved all around team, which only lost a streaky shooter who couldn't play inside the arc anywhere near consistently and lacked energy, focus, and defensive presence, and you have a team which will do better than its previous season
Very curious. . did you change your handle or something..?
This post is under the name SJD but when it first appeared it was under the name... Where's the Light..?
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I really think Larry will be missed this year more than anyone thinks. Every year his game progressed. I know his defense was terrible but last year when he was agressive with the basketball and driving to the hoop not many teams had an answer for him. Unfortunately he was stuck on the bench so his production wasn't as good as it could have been. Hopefully Quincy and TyShwan can pick up the slack.
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LW will be missed most severe.
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All I was trying to say is that Boothe could possibly "make us" or "break us". Make us by creating alot of easy baskets.... and/or break us by not being able to shoot and thus... creating a 5 on 4 for the defense.
Was David Cain able to shoot? With him I don´t think that it was created a 5 on 4 for the defense.
One again my man gonzalez make a great point.
Not a great point at all, because although Cain didn't shoot well deep, he had one of the sweetest mid and short range pull-up jumpers we've ever seen at St. John's. You didn't stop his dribble, you payed. No one played 5 on 4 against us with Cain in the lineup. No one.
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keep the rational, level-headed posts coming dude.
You should print out this post you just made.. and tape it to your computer.....
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All I was trying to say is that Boothe could possibly "make us" or "break us". Make us by creating alot of easy baskets.... and/or break us by not being able to shoot and thus... creating a 5 on 4 for the defense.
Was David Cain able to shoot? With him I don´t think that it was created a 5 on 4 for the defense.
One again my man gonzalez make a great point.
Not a great point at all, because although Cain didn't shoot well deep, he had one of the sweetest mid and short range pull-up jumpers we've ever seen at St. John's. You didn't stop his dribble, you payed. No one played 5 on 4 against us with Cain in the lineup. No one.
Actually I think you are agreeing with him. Gonzalo stated that we didn't get played 5 on 4 even though Cain didn't have a good outside shot. I'm not sure how that statement is dfferent from yours unless you don't think Boothe won't/can't be as effective as Cain.
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I really think Larry will be missed this year more than anyone thinks. Every year his game progressed. I know his defense was terrible but last year when he was agressive with the basketball and driving to the hoop not many teams had an answer for him. Unfortunately he was stuck on the bench so his production wasn't as good as it could have been. Hopefully Quincy and TyShwan can pick up the slack.
He will be missed...the kid could shoot with anyone. It appeared the staff was trying to motivate him to play better D with cutting his playing time because despite him being our best offensive player he gave up a lot of points on D.
I have a feeling(hope) that Quincy Roberts will pick up some of his shooting slack.
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referring to malik...i dont think you guys understand how much of an impact a seemingly "quiet" point guard can make...we say it alot but it really isnt necessary for him to score more than 5 points a game...he needs to be able to knock down open shots from inside the arc, which any player who has more than 3 years of experience playing the game should be able to do, distribute the ball without turnovers, and play good defense...that right there, makes him a hell of a lot better than geno...so after that, take what should be a much improved all around team, which only lost a streaky shooter who couldn't play inside the arc anywhere near consistently and lacked energy, focus, and defensive presence, and you have a team which will do better than its previous season
Very curious. . did you change your handle or something..?
This post is under the name SJD but when it first appeared it was under the name... Where's the Light..?
ha, yea, i did for a little bit, then i realized it seemed kinda annoying and bitchy so i ditched it
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lol I think I was, Johnny. I misunderstood his post..
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So I got my Athlon in the mail today and indeed St. John's was #16. What I don't get is how do you rank a USF team who won 3 games last year in conference ahead of St. Johns especially when they lost their only legit player Kentrell Gransberry. They have 7 incoming players who are all relatively unknowns and we all know how bringing in a large class of unknowns works out.
I'm also not sure why Seton Hall gets so much love either. They lost a lot of their contributing guys and added none. I also don't like their personnel to begin with. I think Eugene Harvey who they ranked the 94th best player in the country is extremely overrated. I also think their big men are lazier than Aaron Spears which is pretty damn lazy.
Another team is Depaul who hasn't done anything to get better and will be without Burns who was the only reason they won any games. The only argument I'll for them is that they might be better off without Burns who often shot them in or shot them out of games.
I actually like Rutgers and think they could be a pretty solid sleeper team IF all things go right for them which is a big IF. I don't mind them being picked ahead of us because they have experience and a terrific freshman class.
Realistically I can see St. John's possibly finishing ahead of....
11. Providence
12. Cincinnati
13. Rutgers
14. Seton Hall
15. Depaul
16. USF
That isn't far fetched again its more possible than it is likely at this point.
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^ agreed.
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nowhere to go but up i guess lol
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St. John dont deserve to be last. They is a strong nucleus wit the sophs now who played mo than any frosh group in a long, long time.
I believe St. John will be better at evry position than last year 'cept SG where LW will be missed a plenty.
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Who cares what Athlon has to say any way? Players play. It is up to this Team and this Coaching Staff to go out and start changing perceptions about the program. The perception from last year was young team, blow outs and an offense that could not get out of it's own way. Now it is up to the Players and Coaching Staff to start changing perceptions by winning games, playing tough in ALL phases of the game and competing everytime out and avoiding those blowouts. STJ is the hot topic with NYC recruits recently.......if STJ win more games who knows what could happen??
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if STJ win more games who knows what could happen??
Guys like Parrom would play at St. John´s.
http://www.zagsblog.net/2008/09/13/kevin-parrom-to-xavier
"They’re going to the (NCAA) tournament every year. They just win, that’s what I like."
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what athlon has to say is we're going to suck this season...whether it's 16th or 11th.
this kind of finish means norm has to go. there are no more excuses.
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All I was trying to say is that Boothe could possibly "make us" or "break us". Make us by creating alot of easy baskets.... and/or break us by not being able to shoot and thus... creating a 5 on 4 for the defense.
Was David Cain able to shoot? With him I don´t think that it was created a 5 on 4 for the defense.
One again my man gonzalez make a great point.
Not a great point at all, because although Cain didn't shoot well deep, he had one of the sweetest mid and short range pull-up jumpers we've ever seen at St. John's. You didn't stop his dribble, you payed. No one played 5 on 4 against us with Cain in the lineup. No one.
Actually I think you are agreeing with him. Gonzalo stated that we didn't get played 5 on 4 even though Cain didn't have a good outside shot. I'm not sure how that statement is dfferent from yours unless you don't think Boothe won't/can't be as effective as Cain.
LOL... Cain was before my time... so I can't refer to him. Back to Boothe... I am one of his biggest supporters (I am alumni of St. John's and CTK). I do think he will be a good player for St. John's. All I think he needs to do is work on a mid range jumper (a 3 would be nice as well but I dont think is necessary). I am just hoping that he developed this over the off season!
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All I was trying to say is that Boothe could possibly "make us" or "break us". Make us by creating alot of easy baskets.... and/or break us by not being able to shoot and thus... creating a 5 on 4 for the defense.
Was David Cain able to shoot? With him I don´t think that it was created a 5 on 4 for the defense.
One again my man gonzalez make a great point.
Not a great point at all, because although Cain didn't shoot well deep, he had one of the sweetest mid and short range pull-up jumpers we've ever seen at St. John's. You didn't stop his dribble, you payed. No one played 5 on 4 against us with Cain in the lineup. No one.
Actually I think you are agreeing with him. Gonzalo stated that we didn't get played 5 on 4 even though Cain didn't have a good outside shot. I'm not sure how that statement is dfferent from yours unless you don't think Boothe won't/can't be as effective as Cain.
LOL... Cain was before my time... so I can't refer to him. Back to Boothe... I am one of his biggest supporters (I am alumni of St. John's and CTK). I do think he will be a good player for St. John's. All I think he needs to do is work on a mid range jumper (a 3 would be nice as well but I dont think is necessary). I am just hoping that he developed this over the off season!
Have no fear guys. Just give me the damn ball. My jumper has improved and I am ready to lead this team. ;)
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why would u post this
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why would u post this
KOB. . do you really think that is Malik Boothe..?
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why would u post this
KOB. . do you really think that is Malik Boothe..?
99% likely to be a joke...but can u really put anything past a st johns player or coach? lol
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why would u post this
KOB. . do you really think that is Malik Boothe..?
99% likely to be a joke...but can u really put anything past a st johns player or coach? lol
Quite possible that players and staff read this board. I know they take a certain interest in the Baldi posts
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nah that's why I am asking the imature person why would they post it.
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nah that's why I am asking the imature person why would they post it.
Lighten up son. It's a j-o-k-e.
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malik3...get it?
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why would u post this
KOB. . do you really think that is Malik Boothe..?
99% likely to be a joke...but can u really put anything past a st johns player or coach? lol
Quite possible that players and staff read this board. I know they take a certain interest in the Baldi posts
I know for a fact that malik reads this board. He is the one who turned me onto this place and redmen.com. Tryed to post on there but registration is closed. Been reading both forums for the last few months and this seems to be the place to go for latest info on sju hoops. Much respect to johnny jungle.
MB has been proving people wrong his whole life. I expect more of the same over his remaing years at sju. He is the consumate point guard and a decent offensive player. He has great court awareness and a pitbull mentality on defense.
In my opinion he is going to heighten the game of Burell this year by getting him the ball in the right place at the right time. We should also see many more successfull alleyoops this year with him directing the fast break.
Prediction: 16-14, 8-10........... Malik: 7 pts, 8 assists and 2 steals.
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Prediction: 16-14, 8-10........... Malik: 7 pts, 8 assists and 2 steals.
8 assists per game will put him near the top of the heap nationally.... bold prediction...
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eight assists is a stretch for the worst offensively coached team in the big east.
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eight assists is a stretch for the worst offensively coached team in the big east.
St Johns managed to outscore a couple of Big East teams
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I think 5 ast is more of an accurate prediction for Malik running the point
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I think 5 ast is more of an accurate prediction for Malik running the point
I also think 5 to 6 assists per game. Definitely 2 steals pg. Only 4 to 6 points pg. But alot less TO's than EL!
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I think 5 ast is more of an accurate prediction for Malik running the point
I also think 5 to 6 assists per game. Definitely 2 steals pg. Only 4 to 6 points pg. But alot less TO's than EL!
Offensive flow yo! It will be nice to see a pg with some speed and get the ball up the court in a hurry
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I think 5 ast is more of an accurate prediction for Malik running the point
I also think 5 to 6 assists per game. Definitely 2 steals pg. Only 4 to 6 points pg. But alot less TO's than EL!
Offensive flow yo! It will be nice to see a pg with some speed and get the ball up the court in a hurry
I couldn't agree more.
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Also depends on the speed/ number of possessions. Offensive flow will have to also depend on the decisions the other players make; but Malik, if he uses his speed a little more/ aggressively, he will put up his 5-6 points per game.
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eight assists is a stretch for the worst offensively coached team in the big east.
You make a couple good points newsman13. I may have inflated maliks numbers a tad because he is a friend of mine. And I think we all can agree that Norm is no mastermind. But I would not say we were the worst coached offense in the conference either. You have to recognize that junior was hurt, we were a very young squad and our lone senior had an abysmal season running the show. Let's face it. EL was a great representitive for sju off the court. But as far as playing the pont in the big east. He just did not have what it takes to succeed on this level.
From what malk told me yesterday sju is going to be playing a much more up tempo style this year. And to better prepare for this up and down style the entire team has been up at the crack of dawn all week running close to five miles a day alongside the ROTC guys around the track on DaSilva field. Sounds like sju boot-camp is in full effect. Let's hope it pays off down the line
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eight assists is a stretch for the worst offensively coached team in the big east.
You make a couple good points newsman13. I may have inflated maliks numbers a tad because he is a friend of mine. And I think we all can agree that Norm is no mastermind. But I would not say we were the worst coached offense in the conference either. You have to recognize that junior was hurt, we were a very young squad and our lone senior had an abysmal season running the show. Let's face it. EL was a great representitive for sju off the court. But as far as playing the pont in the big east. He just did not have what it takes to succeed on this level.
From what malk told me yesterday sju is going to be playing a much more up tempo style this year. And to better prepare for this up and down style the entire team has been up at the crack of dawn all week running close to five miles a day alongside the ROTC guys around the track on DaSilva field. Sounds like sju boot-camp is in full effect. Let's hope it pays off down the line
Wow. I don't want to sound positive or anything but I like the sound of that.
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eight assists is a stretch for the worst offensively coached team in the big east.
From what malk told me yesterday sju is going to be playing a much more up tempo style this year. And to better prepare for this up and down style the entire team has been up at the crack of dawn all week running close to five miles a day alongside the ROTC guys around the track on DaSilva field. Sounds like sju boot-camp is in full effect. Let's hope it pays off down the line
Music to my ears.
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eight assists is a stretch for the worst offensively coached team in the big east.
From what malk told me yesterday sju is going to be playing a much more up tempo style this year. And to better prepare for this up and down style the entire team has been up at the crack of dawn all week running close to five miles a day alongside the ROTC guys around the track on DaSilva field. Sounds like sju boot-camp is in full effect. Let's hope it pays off down the line
Music to my ears.
we have enough players of approximately equal ability...so no one should play until they're winded.
music is the sound of nothing but net. lots of people running around the track can't put the ball in the hole. i hope someone is setting up plays while the players are working on their shots.
if that's the case...we might win more than the people at althon expect.
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eight assists is a stretch for the worst offensively coached team in the big east.
From what malk told me yesterday sju is going to be playing a much more up tempo style this year. And to better prepare for this up and down style the entire team has been up at the crack of dawn all week running close to five miles a day alongside the ROTC guys around the track on DaSilva field. Sounds like sju boot-camp is in full effect. Let's hope it pays off down the line
Music to my ears.
we have enough players of approximately equal ability...so no one should play until they're winded.
music is the sound of nothing but net. lots of people running around the track can't put the ball in the hole. i hope someone is setting up plays while the players are working on their shots.
if that's the case...we might win more than the people at althon expect.
newsman, Ive been impressed with your posts as of late. Its obvious you attended the Baldi Art of Posting seminar. Maybe you should recommend this fine instruction class to PMG
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eight assists is a stretch for the worst offensively coached team in the big east.
From what malk told me yesterday sju is going to be playing a much more up tempo style this year. And to better prepare for this up and down style the entire team has been up at the crack of dawn all week running close to five miles a day alongside the ROTC guys around the track on DaSilva field. Sounds like sju boot-camp is in full effect. Let's hope it pays off down the line
Music to my ears.
we have enough players of approximately equal ability...so no one should play until they're winded.
music is the sound of nothing but net. lots of people running around the track can't put the ball in the hole. i hope someone is setting up plays while the players are working on their shots.
if that's the case...we might win more than the people at althon expect.
newsman, Ive been impressed with your posts as of late. Its obvious you attended the Baldi Art of Posting seminar. Maybe you should recommend this fine instruction class to PMG
i know for a fact you told htgs that i was your inspiration. let's not turn the tables here.
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this is funny
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I think 5 ast is more of an accurate prediction for Malik running the point
I also think 5 to 6 assists per game. Definitely 2 steals pg. Only 4 to 6 points pg. But alot less TO's than EL!
Offensive flow yo! It will be nice to see a pg with some speed and get the ball up the court in a hurry
You nailed it Baldi...offensive flow is what Boothe will bring...something we haven't had since Barkley (and sometimes when Cook) was in uniform.
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I think 5 ast is more of an accurate prediction for Malik running the point
I also think 5 to 6 assists per game. Definitely 2 steals pg. Only 4 to 6 points pg. But alot less TO's than EL!
Offensive flow yo! It will be nice to see a pg with some speed and get the ball up the court in a hurry
You nailed it Baldi...offensive flow is what Boothe will bring...something we haven't had since Barkley (and sometimes when Cook) was in uniform.
Offensive flow is something we didnt see very much of last year. At some points last year I think the offense just sat and watched Mase with the ball at other points it looked like the offense sat and watched geno dribble. I am hoping that this team will be much more fast break oriented and when we are in the half court offense we go inside out and make sure burrell touches the ball in every possession.
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This team is meant to run uptempo will they run uptempo has remained to be seen. When we played defense, rebounded and got out we were actually pretty tough to stop. We have athletic enough bigs when Burrell and Evans are out on the floor to really get up and down pretty quick.
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This team is meant to run uptempo will they run uptempo has remained to be seen. When we played defense, rebounded and got out we were actually pretty tough to stop. We have athletic enough bigs when Burrell and Evans are out on the floor to really get up and down pretty quick.
Couldn't agree more. We may not have been getting players who can shoot the rock better. However, I do believe we are getting better athletes. Therefore, I am hoping Norm will utilize this and have our team running more and playing more pressure defense. Play a guy until he is winded and then sub him in for someone with fresh legs.
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This team is meant to run uptempo will they run uptempo has remained to be seen. When we played defense, rebounded and got out we were actually pretty tough to stop. We have athletic enough bigs when Burrell and Evans are out on the floor to really get up and down pretty quick.
Couldn't agree more. We may not have been getting players who can shoot the rock better. However, I do believe we are getting better athletes. Therefore, I am hoping Norm will utilize this and have our team running more and playing more pressure defense. Play a guy until he is winded and then sub him in for someone with fresh legs.
maybe we're getting better athletes...but athlon doesn't believe we're getting better players. edmondson, roberts and wait are not listed among their top 300 recruits. it lists us as 15th in recruiting in the big east with notre dame behind us with no recruits at all. it lists 13 teams that are post season bound...ten to the ncaa and three to the nit with rutgers, south florida and us watching from the sidelines again.
i guess they could be very wrong about this.
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I think they are. South Florida, who do they have in the post? Gilchrist who, if he gets a waiver, will singlehandedly make a sham of the waiver process. Two young guys in Rivas-Sanchez (from JUCO) and Eladio Espinosa. They lost three recruits who didn't qualify. So that's a team with Dominique Jones... Chris Howard... Mike Mercer in January... and he's not that great (at least he wasn't at Georgia).
Our recruits are unknown, and may not play much. But damn, South Florida's terrible and they have a bunch of new guys. DePaul also has a bunch of new guys. Freshmen don't do well in the Big East without upperclassmen picking up the slack. St. John's could be 16th; the team has done little to convince us that they'll be in the league's upper half. But any of the last 6-7 teams could fall to the basement.
I think it might be Seton Hall.
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I think they are. South Florida, who do they have in the post? Gilchrist who, if he gets a waiver, will singlehandedly make a sham of the waiver process. Two young guys in Rivas-Sanchez (from JUCO) and Eladio Espinosa. They lost three recruits who didn't qualify. So that's a team with Dominique Jones... Chris Howard... Mike Mercer in January... and he's not that great (at least he wasn't at Georgia).
Our recruits are unknown, and may not play much. But damn, South Florida's terrible and they have a bunch of new guys. DePaul also has a bunch of new guys. Freshmen don't do well in the Big East without upperclassmen picking up the slack. St. John's could be 16th; the team has done little to convince us that they'll be in the league's upper half. But any of the last 6-7 teams could fall to the basement.
I think it might be Seton Hall.
Man, you have to pretty dumb to not get into USF as an athlete.
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I think they are. South Florida, who do they have in the post? Gilchrist who, if he gets a waiver, will singlehandedly make a sham of the waiver process. Two young guys in Rivas-Sanchez (from JUCO) and Eladio Espinosa. They lost three recruits who didn't qualify. So that's a team with Dominique Jones... Chris Howard... Mike Mercer in January... and he's not that great (at least he wasn't at Georgia).
Our recruits are unknown, and may not play much. But damn, South Florida's terrible and they have a bunch of new guys. DePaul also has a bunch of new guys. Freshmen don't do well in the Big East without upperclassmen picking up the slack. St. John's could be 16th; the team has done little to convince us that they'll be in the league's upper half. But any of the last 6-7 teams could fall to the basement.
I think it might be Seton Hall.
Man, you have to pretty dumb to not get into USF as an athlete.
oh, they got in - they just didn't qualify for NCAA competition.