Athlon Sports Has the Johnnies at the Bottom

Nothing new here, but Athlon Sports' preview (as mentioned on the other sites) have St. John's at the bottom of the Big East.  Unlike other publications, the Storm are below South frickin' Florida. 

Obviously the games still need to be played, and of course there are lots of ifs that aren't being accounted for*  and we know that.  I'm wondering if anyone has last year's Athlon report, and what the prediction was of the Red Storm team there.  I remember a number of preseason previews had the team at around 13th in the league.


*_{(logically, what's the chance that someone among Thomas/ Kennedy/ Coker/ Burrell/ Boothe don't improve?  Horne put up good numbers on the court but didn't play much, and I don't think he's going to fall off.)}

Wow we have reached a new low... I didnt expect to be in the upper or middle tier in the preseason rankings but I didnt think we would be last either

An aside: I don't have a Rivals subscription, so could anyone who does tell me what this: http://depaul.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=848601 says?  DePaul's Rivals site has the Storm at 16 as well, but I bet they bit from Athlon.

Other observers (espn, crackedsidewalks blog, providence journal) have St. John's at 13 or 14. 

Actually, I was wrong about those: Providence Journal has the Storm at 15 http://www.projo.com/pc/content/sp_bkc_kevin_mcnamara27_07-27-08_MLB0J59_v10.395ad4b.html

ESPN has the squad at 13: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/notebook?page=notebook/shootaround/bigeast

Cracked Sidewalks at 15 (but I think his methodology was really lazy): http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/08/big-east-preview-part-one.html

So what? Its preseason polls....games aren't played on paper. Let people take us for granted.

Also I think the worst teams in the conference will be Depaul, Seton Hall, and South Florida. I also think anywhere from 8-16 is very up for grabs.

So what? Its preseason polls....games aren't played on paper. Let people take us for granted.

Also I think the worst teams in the conference will be Depaul, Seton Hall, and South Florida. I also think anywhere from 8-16 is very up for grabs.

I agree with you JJ. However, I don't see us getting any higher than 9th this year.

An aside: I don't have a Rivals subscription, so could anyone who does tell me what this: http://depaul.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=848601 says?  DePaul's Rivals site has the Storm at 16 as well, but I bet they bit from Athlon.

The Demons Den Staff
 
 
St. John's Are Able To Score In The Post, But The Question Mark Is Their Perimeter
Someone has to bring up the rear, and the sixteenth best team in the 2008-2009 Big East Men's Basketball season is the St. John's Red Storm. Norm Roberts led his team to an 11-19 campaign (5-13 in the Big East), however lost more than he gained, as Roberts got a group of role players, where St. John's needed a four or five star recruit to anchor their backcourt.

St. John's Strengths

The Red Storm have two outstanding players, with one possibly becoming a star in the Big East.

Sophomore power forward Justin Burrell had an outstanding freshmen season, averaging 10.8 points and 5.9 rebounds, but those numbers truly do not describe his outstanding talent. Burrell might be one of the very best athletes in the country, and has a mean-streak around the rim that will help on both sides of the ball.

Senior Anthony Mason Jr. is the other bright spot for The Red Storm, as he averaged 14.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.3 assists in an injury-rittled junior campaign. Mason is a talented penetrator and streaky shooter that can score in flurries.

Both Burrell and Mason Jr. give The Red Storm a very strong frontline in the Big East.

St. John's Weaknesses

Where the frontline is St. John's strength, their backcourt is their weakness, as they lost two key contributors in Eugene Lawrence and Larry Wright. The Red Storm are going to be looking to two freshmen in TyShwan Edmondson and Quincy Roberts to run their offense and score from the perimeter. St. John's was one of the worst offensive teams in the country last year, and having freshmen anchor your backcourt is never a good sign for improvement...at least for this season.

To go along with their backcourt, their other weakness is their perimeter shooting, where they shot 33.3% from the arc, and an awful 40.9% overall. Their strength is their frontline and around the basket, however if The Red Storm cannot extend the defense with some outside shooting, their post play will suffer.

this is why so many of us puked when we heard norm was getting at least another year.  i can't predict anything until i've seen whether anyone has improved over the summer...but the people who make money prognosticating are all in lock step.  it could be another long winter.

it appears he addressed his recruiting weaknesses by bringing in young and cross.

the x's and o's are another story.

JJ - you know I agree.  I do think it's interesting that St. John's is so poorly regarded by some, but better regarded than others.  

Additionally, I would like to find old Athlon reports and compare how accurate they have been (if I make some time I will try to do that with some other popular predictor sites, see what they tend to miss).  And what is injury-"rittled?"  At least they got Ty's name right.

That DePaul preview is absolutely nice personic, though.  Are they going to kidnap Malik Boothe?  Come on.  By the way, I'm not sure how many of these guys make any more money than I do from my blog (except for ESPN). 

Quote from: peter on September 10, 2008, 12:31:14 PM

An aside: I don't have a Rivals subscription, so could anyone who does tell me what this: http://depaul.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=848601 says?  DePaul's Rivals site has the Storm at 16 as well, but I bet they bit from Athlon.

The Demons Den Staff
 
 
St. John's Are Able To Score In The Post, But The Question Mark Is Their Perimeter
Someone has to bring up the rear, and the sixteenth best team in the 2008-2009 Big East Men's Basketball season is the St. John's Red Storm. Norm Roberts led his team to an 11-19 campaign (5-13 in the Big East), however lost more than he gained, as Roberts got a group of role players, where St. John's needed a four or five star recruit to anchor their backcourt.

St. John's Strengths

The Red Storm have two outstanding players, with one possibly becoming a star in the Big East.

Sophomore power forward Justin Burrell had an outstanding freshmen season, averaging 10.8 points and 5.9 rebounds, but those numbers truly do not describe his outstanding talent. Burrell might be one of the very best athletes in the country, and has a mean-streak around the rim that will help on both sides of the ball.

Senior Anthony Mason Jr. is the other bright spot for The Red Storm, as he averaged 14.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.3 assists in an injury-rittled junior campaign. Mason is a talented penetrator and streaky shooter that can score in flurries.

Both Burrell and Mason Jr. give The Red Storm a very strong frontline in the Big East.

St. John's Weaknesses

Where the frontline is St. John's strength, their backcourt is their weakness, as they lost two key contributors in Eugene Lawrence and Larry Wright. The Red Storm are going to be looking to two freshmen in TyShwan Edmondson and Quincy Roberts to run their offense and score from the perimeter. St. John's was one of the worst offensive teams in the country last year, and having freshmen anchor your backcourt is never a good sign for improvement...at least for this season.

To go along with their backcourt, their other weakness is their perimeter shooting, where they shot 33.3% from the arc, and an awful 40.9% overall. Their strength is their frontline and around the basket, however if The Red Storm cannot extend the defense with some outside shooting, their post play will suffer.

No mention of 5'4" Malik Boothe.
He very well may be the key to the season.

I think Athlon, and many other pre-season pubs are putting too much weight on our new backcourt.
Lawrence, whom I loved until last year, was the main reason why we struggled in the big east.

For whatever reason, he just stop focusing and playing hard. Larry Wright will be missed. There is no way around it.
Even if he didn't d up like Horne and Boothe, he was an outside threat, and if Quincy Roberts and Tyshawn Edmonson can't replace his 3 point touch, we will feel it, but we have 8 sophomores who were inexperienced freshman last year.

Burrell will improve upon his numbers. I see 13 and 6.5.
If Thomas is finally healthy, we can use him at more than position.
Kennedy showed promise last year. So did Horne.

Plenty is up in the air, so I understand the last place finish, but against teams like Rutgers and South Florida, we looked like Duke.

malik isn't 5'4

Screw "athlon"... and SJU is DEFINITELY not finishing last in the Big East.. lol .. This team is already "light years" ahead of last years bunch. Once again, our BEST player missed a 1/3 of the season(and played the rest on one foot), our freshmen "hit the wall" & our senior point guard was DREADFULL in every way possible on the basketball court..  .. Mase is now 100% healthy, our frosh are now sophs & all of them hit the weights "hard"... plus, just about the entire class(burrell, dj, horne, coker, evans) stayed on campus this summer & worked on their games TOGETHER instead of going "home".... and by all accounts Boothe has gotten quicker/stronger & will be twice the point guard that Lawrence EVER was for SJU..  .. once again, barring any MAJOR injuries this team will at worst be a middle of the pack team in the BE this year. Just remember, u heard it here first..  .. peace!

Screw "athlon"... and SJU is DEFINITELY not finishing last in the Big East.. lol .. This team is already "light years" ahead of last years bunch. Once again, our BEST player missed a 1/3 of the season(and played the rest on one foot), our freshmen "hit the wall" & our senior point guard was DREADFULL in every way possible on the basketball court..  .. Mase is now 100% healthy, our frosh are now sophs & all of them hit the weights "hard"... plus, just about the entire class(burrell, dj, horne, coker, evans) stayed on campus this summer & worked on their games TOGETHER instead of going "home".... and by all accounts Boothe has gotten quicker/stronger & will be twice the point guard that Lawrence EVER was for SJU..  .. once again, barring any MAJOR injuries this team will at worst be a middle of the pack team in the BE this year. Just remember, u heard it here first..  .. peace!

Middle of the pack means that SJU will be on the bubble for an NCAA tournament birth.  Are you sticking by that?

malik isn't 5'4

Unless they measured him in these, he's also not 5'8."
When the average Big East pg is 6'+, his size and outside shot are liabilities.


Among players that averaged 15+ mpg, he was the worst shooter, 30.9%, in the Big East.

Even if he didn't d up like Horne and Boothe, he was an outside threat, and if Quincy Roberts and Tyshawn Edmonson can't replace his 3 point touch, we will feel it,

Sorry bre, but we gonna feel it.

Hard to replace a shooter like LW 'specially wit frosh.

Screw "athlon"... and SJU is DEFINITELY not finishing last in the Big East.. lol .. This team is already "light years" ahead of last years bunch. Once again, our BEST player missed a 1/3 of the season(and played the rest on one foot), our freshmen "hit the wall" & our senior point guard was DREADFULL in every way possible on the basketball court..  .. Mase is now 100% healthy, our frosh are now sophs & all of them hit the weights "hard"... plus, just about the entire class(burrell, dj, horne, coker, evans) stayed on campus this summer & worked on their games TOGETHER instead of going "home".... and by all accounts Boothe has gotten quicker/stronger & will be twice the point guard that Lawrence EVER was for SJU..  .. once again, barring any MAJOR injuries this team will at worst be a middle of the pack team in the BE this year. Just remember, u heard it here first..  .. peace!

I think its has something to do with the month of September that makes you go looney tunes......

Last year you got banned from Big East Boards for posting the same hate filled message 170x over 5 hours and this year you are making these wild predcitions all over the place...    

Or at least those point guards say they're over 6 foot.  I call for measurements on that one - Jonny Flynn is no six footer, but he's listed as such.  It's basketball height!  And Marquette's backcourt has two relative "little people," Louisville, Pitt, and Notre Dame both have guys who try and stretch the tape to 6... Boothe is quick enough that his liability is his shot itself, not the guys guarding him.

ok b

Quote from: kob24 on September 10, 2008, 02:06:53 PM

malik isn't 5'4

Unless they measured him in these, he's also not 5'8."
When the average Big East pg is 6'+, his size and outside shot are liabilities.


Among players that averaged 15+ mpg, he was the worst shooter, 30.9%, in the Big East.

Ok but he still isn't 5'4 that's alot of hate

JJ - you know I agree.  I do think it's interesting that St. John's is so poorly regarded by some, but better regarded than others.  

Additionally, I would like to find old Athlon reports and compare how accurate they have been (if I make some time I will try to do that with some other popular predictor sites, see what they tend to miss).  And what is injury-"rittled?"  At least they got Ty's name right.

That DePaul preview is absolutely nice personic, though.  Are they going to kidnap Malik Boothe?  Come on.  By the way, I'm not sure how many of these guys make any more money than I do from my blog (except for ESPN). 

last year, athlon picked us for 11th...with the comment, "norm roberts' rebuilding project is headed in the right direction".  the year we won the nit, they had us pre-season 23rd.

Quote from: Poison on September 10, 2008, 01:45:41 PM

Even if he didn't d up like Horne and Boothe, he was an outside threat, and if Quincy Roberts and Tyshawn Edmonson can't replace his 3 point touch, we will feel it,

Sorry bre, but we gonna feel it.

Hard to replace a shooter like LW 'specially wit frosh.

We are not replacing Wright with frosh. Horne will be the starting two guard. He is a MUCH better defender & finisher on the break... and his shooting improved as the season wore on. He too has gotten bigger/stronger and improved his jumper as well this summer. Plus, with a healthy Thomas on the team. Mase will be playig some 2 this year as well. Our frosh are also both better defenders than him & Roberts can really shoot it as well. Once again, wright went to oakland(lol) for a reason & will not be missed in the least imo... of course all of this REMAINS to be seen. In other words, talk to me after the season & we'll discuss just how much LW was "missed" this year. U could be right choz, but i doubt it on this one brotha..   .. btw - one thing is for sure... lawrence will NOT be missed runnin' the point. PERIOD.