6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: hnk on July 27, 2016, 01:04:14 PM
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Anyone think with 10 guys plus fighting for playing time we might try 40 minutes of hell defense....if not what will our defensive scheme be? Who are our best defensive guards?
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I really liked the full court 1 2 1 1 defense we used last year at times. With quicker guards and Owens fitting the front-man role perfectly I think we will see it a lottt more of it this coming season.
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Also there is no reason in the world why Lovett should be a below average defender. He has all the tools to be a great one.
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He is a little small.....pick and roll? ....foul trouble? too offense-minded? I hope you are right on Lovett. Ponds while slight has long arms and seems like he might really be pesky on defense if he can stay out of you trouble....Malik is tall and long armed....if he can gain a step he can be a terror if he stays out of foul trouble.
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I love playing defense like this. Besides yakwe, who can do it? Still I would rather give points up being aggressive .
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Sima and Owens can both run the court.....in fact, everyone can except maybe Amar.....plus it creates playing time because guys will be tired.
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Sima and Owens can both run the court.....in fact, everyone can except maybe Amar.....plus it creates playing time because guys will be tired.
Owens looks athletic. Never saw him play. Do we really want to create playing time? How many quality players do we have?
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Time will tell...by next year, we should have the equivalent of ten top 100's including 5 top 50.
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Lovett, Simon, Clark, Brown, Yakwe, RF, Bashir, Malik,Sima,
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How many quality players do we have?
There's more talent on this team than there has been for 20 years. Stop whining or go root for Kentucky.
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How many quality players do we have?
There's more talent on this team than there has been for 20 years. Stop whining or go root for Kentucky.
Foady - u whined like a bitch when we were good.
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u whined like a bitch when we were good.
When were we good stupid?
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u whined like a bitch when we were good.
When were we good stupid?
Hahaha
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I think the key to this season is defense. If we can hold teams to 65 points or so, we will be in every game. Think Virginia. Limit runouts. Limit gratuitous fouls. Solid rotations. Continuous ball pressure. Create turnovers and forced shots.
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Think Virginia.
I thought we were going to play an up tempo NBA game that emphasized the 3 point shot? Were you referring to the Virginia Squires?
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Think Virginia.
I thought we were going to play an up tempo NBA game that emphasized the 3 point shot? Were you referring to the Virginia Squires?
+1
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I think if we play good defense, we can win and if we don't, we won't. NBA and NCAA playoff teams that make deep playoff runs normally play great defense. That's what I'm hoping for.
Are you guys expecting Yakwe and Sima and Amar and Owens (and even Ahmed) and some of the others to make a lot of threes? I'm not, but there's no reason why the team as a team and individually can't play terrific defense.
We will pay an enormous price is there is no emphasis on defense.
Virginia has guys who make threes, but they play smart with few turnovers and win because of their D.
With ten players competing for PT, the staff should be demanding great defensive effort.
Playing up tempo and shooting threes cannot be an excuse for bad defense.
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I think if we play good defense, we can win and if we don't, we won't. NBA and NCAA playoff teams that make deep playoff runs normally play great defense. That's what I'm hoping for.
Are you guys expecting Yakwe and Sima and Amar and Owens (and even Ahmed) and some of the others to make a lot of threes? I'm not, but there's no reason why the team as a team and individually can't play terrific defense.
We will pay an enormous price is there is no emphasis on defense.
Virginia has guys who make threes, but they play smart with few turnovers and win because of their D.
With ten players competing for PT, the staff should be demanding great defensive effort.
Playing up tempo and shooting threes cannot be an excuse for bad defense.
Virginia scored fewer than 70 points in 18 of their games. They scored over 80 points 5 times. If you think that's the sort of game plan Chris Mullin and Mitch Richmond are planning I suspect you will be disappointed. Mullin didn't play defense when he was in college, why should he start caring about it now.
We are all hoping that everyone plays good defense. No one is hoping there is no emphasis on defense. No one is hoping that no one demands great defensive effort. What you are talking about when you talk about 60 points a game is tempo, not defense. This team is not being built to play at a 60 point a game tempo and if they play at the tempo they will lose, I don't care what kind of defense they play. Plus it will be horrible and boring. For the past 30 years I've been hearing about how we should run more, now we're allegedly going to run and you want to play the four corners and win 60-49. Not me, I want to lose 87-84.
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Good defense is an antidote to poor shooting nights, years, decades, generations. But I guess poor shooting and unforced turnovers are not things we have to worry about.
I think I said an average of 65 points or so.
I'd rather win. And be competitive in every or almost every game.
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Good defense is an antidote to poor shooting nights, years, decades, generations. But I guess poor shooting and unforced turnovers are not things we have to worry about.
I think I said an average of 65 points or so.
I'd rather win. And be competitive in every or almost every game.
I agree. Winning and being competitive is much better than losing by 20 regularly
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Winning and being competitive is much better than losing by 20 regularly
Way to go out on a limb, your statement should prove quite controversial. I look forward to the lively discussion that follows.
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Our best defensive guard in my opinion is Ponds. No question Yawke is the best overall defender.
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Overall, we'll have lots of long arms....but will we have heart and hustle and a solid defensive scheme or two and a coaching staff that rewards defensive play and holds people accountable - even scorers - for their defense and rebounding......a lost defensive rebound is like a turnover and an offensive rebound is like a defensive steal.
I think we need to talk as much about defense and rebounding on this blog as we do offense to try to help create the right mindset.
A run and gun uptempo offense cannot be an excuse for unforced turnovers and poor shot selection and a lack of high quality defense.
I can't wait to see how the season unfolds.
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Winning and being competitive is much better than losing by 20 regularly
Way to go out on a limb, your statement should prove quite controversial. I look forward to the lively discussion that follows.
That one went way over your head it seems
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Any rumors on what the defensive scheme(s) might be? And how much emphasis is being put on it?
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From Baruch game, it seems the plan is to try full court pressure and in the half court, double team the ball and rotate. it will probably take 10 games or so until the guys get the rotations and boxing out assignments down.. I'm hopeful.
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I like the idea of pressing at full and mid-court. Team is quick with the exception of Sima and Amar and can pull it off. I agree it will take awhile to learn to rotate back. I like the old UCLA Wooden 221, Sima, Owens and especially Yakwe can all be the 1.
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I don't see the defense being there this year. I hope I'm wrong.
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Press all day long. Put the long arms up front.
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I don't see the defense being there this year. I hope I'm wrong.
the part of the defense that worries me is the lack of strength on the front line. I fear big D-1 teams will push us around.
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We will not be the strongest but we will be the fastest.
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I don't see the defense being there this year. I hope I'm wrong.
the part of the defense that worries me is the lack of strength on the front line. I fear big D-1 teams will push us around.
Learning year. Get everyone in shape and mentally ready. Next year we make the move
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If we stay healthy and we all feel good about the coaching then the year was a success IMHO. I don't see anyone stopping the ball to start the year.
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No reason for this team not to press for 40 minutes. If they are going to be rolling 9 or 10 deep every game you can rotate guys in and out to keep them fresh and you have rim protectors at the back end of the defense in Yakwe, Sima and Owens in case an opponent breaks the press easily
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Our first loss....totally on the defense.
25 fast break points? Push the offense to the corner and then give up too many corner threes? Chippie fouls...2 quick ones on Sima? A step or two slow on the defensive rotations? Not getting out on three point shooters?
All fixable.
Minn had way, way more muscle than we do. Way more. Clark and Zach can't get here soon enough. A work in progress but we are going to get there. Livingston might have made a difference last night.
Practice in Paradise Island should be 80% defense and 20% offense.
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Our first loss....totally on the defense.
25 fast break points? Push the offense to the corner and then give up too many corner threes? Chippie fouls...2 quick ones on Sima? A step or two slow on the defensive rotations? Not getting out on three point shooters?
All fixable.
Minn had way, way more muscle than we do. Way more. Clark and Zach can't get here soon enough. A work in progress but we are going to get there. Livingston might have made a difference last night.
Practice in Paradise Island should be 80% defense and 20% offense.
Who is Livingston?
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The graduate transfer big we were recruiting who wound up in Texas (A and M I think.)
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The graduate transfer big we were recruiting who wound up in Texas (A and M I think.)
Ah right. The Arkansas St kid? Now I remember
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Would someone please explain the defensive scheme we are trying to implement (apparently without success)?
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Would someone please explain the defensive scheme we are trying to implement (apparently without success)?
There are times the players don't know where they're supposed to be on the floor. I'm including the players who was there a season ago. It's not like we're switching up defensese. It's man defense. The same defense from last season. It kinda reminds me of pick up ball.
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Not including last night, believe it or not, our defense has improved ....we are double teaming the ball when it goes inside and rotating over has improved. Gives hope for next year. Still a long way to go.
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Didn't last night's game count?
It's happened a few times this season, but we did not appear ready to play at the start of the game. Team still does not play consistently hard for a full 40: when we did not match Butler's intensity at the start of the game, for all intents and purposes the game was over.
We've had more than a few disappointing defensive efforts this year wrapped around a handful of encouraging ones, but lawst night's effort and defense was far and away our worst. (We looked like last year's team out there, and having Mussini as high scorer only cemented that impression.)
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110 points. Can anyone remember a higher score?
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110 points. Can anyone remember a higher score?
At the very least its most points allowed in the past 20 years. My service only goes back to 1996.
Thats embarrassing
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Unbelievably bad D but I agree that over the last 5 or 6 games the defense has appreciably improved. Played like they did early in the season.....hopefully only a one game regression
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Yesterday was a BAD day. A read bad day. They've been better last night not withstanding.
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110 points. Can anyone remember a higher score?
Sometimes I think that they don't care on the road. They know that unless they win the B.E. Tourny, that their season is over after a loss in the BE Tourny.
They know the tournament is at MSG, so maybe they only try there. I'm just guessing.
Why not try for 9-9 though? Even if they win the last 2 at msg, that's only 8.
They aren't winning @ Creighton, so Marq is a huge game, just for the purpose of not finishing under 500 in big east play.
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Yesterday was a BAD day. A read bad day. They've been better last night not withstanding.
I agree the defense had been better lately . So has everything. I am actually glad the score got so out of hand. Defense and rebounding have to be more of a focus now.
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Could someone please explain to me what our defensive scheme was this season?
Is that the plan for the future?
I think I noticed we were double teaming the ball inside the paint and trying to push the ball to the side of the off hand outside the paint.
What else?
What's the strategy for improving boxing out?
Thanks
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Could someone please explain to me what our defensive scheme was this season?
Is that the plan for the future?
I think I noticed we were double teaming the ball inside the paint and trying to push the ball to the side of the off hand outside the paint.
What else?
What's the strategy for improving boxing out?
Thanks
The double team really depends on the guy in the paint. Don't expect it to come so heavily tonight.
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What's the defensive plan/scheme for 17/18?
One relatvely easy thing to fix: cut down on run outs.....so someone has to always get back. If Lovett penetrates the other guard has to get back.
Some ideas: Hands up defense or sit down. Matador defense sit for a while. Two missed rotations sit for two minutes. Take a play off on defense then sit. Missed box outs...sit. During games, one assistant should be focused on just defensive end.
Can we press or at least double team the ball at half court?
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Zone.
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For quite a few games next season we know we're going to suit up 8 players. Right now, we have 10, and we know from watching just the last season, that guys get hurt all the time. Thankfully nothing was serious enough to cost a player his season last year, but like we saw with Williams, it happens.
So, zone it is. Can't go man with 8 players, especially if the ultra durable Amar Alibegovic is one of them.
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What's the defensive plan/scheme for 17/18?
One relatvely easy thing to fix: cut down on run outs.....so someone has to always get back. If Lovett penetrates the other guard has to get back.
Some ideas: Hands up defense or sit down. Matador defense sit for a while. Two missed rotations sit for two minutes. Take a play off on defense then sit. Missed box outs...sit. During games, one assistant should be focused on just defensive end.
Can we press or at least double team the ball at half court?
If we play D anything like last year all the sitting will result in the walkons playing, I agree something must be done re D and feel the outstanding team quickness should be used to press and double for a good portion of the game.
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We were also the second youngest team in the country last year. This year we are bigger, older and more experienced. I definitely think we should use more zone to
Mix things up and preserve our team health a bit. I think defense will improve regardless.
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We were also the second youngest team in the country last year. This year we are bigger, older and more experienced. I definitely think we should use more zone to
Mix things up and preserve our team health a bit. I think defense will improve regardless.
Where have I heard this second youngest team in the country line before?
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We were also the second youngest team in the country last year. This year we are bigger, older and more experienced. I definitely think we should use more zone to
Mix things up and preserve our team health a bit. I think defense will improve regardless.
Where have I heard this second youngest team in the country line before?
Yeah it happened before but we improved after that as well. Mullin certainly had a rebuild.
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Switching up defenses would be positive. What sort of zone are you guys thinking about?
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Switching up defenses would be positive. What sort of zone are you guys thinking about?
1-3-1 with Simon at the top with his length and Ponds running the baseline with his fast hands and nose for the ball. It helps limit dribble penetration and will keep Owens out of could trouble. Then some 2-3 with 3/4 pressure and aggressive traps. Try to funnel the ball handler
to one side to trap or force long cross-court passes like Dunlap did here.
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Can you trap the corners out of a 1-3-1?
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Switching up defenses would be positive. What sort of zone are you guys thinking about?
1-3-1 with Simon at the top with his length and Ponds running the baseline with his fast hands and nose for the ball. It helps limit dribble penetration and will keep Owens out of could trouble. Then some 2-3 with 3/4 pressure and aggressive traps. Try to funnel the ball handler
to one side to trap or force long cross-court passes like Dunlap did here.
I agree. Would like to see Yakwe at the top also
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Let's start with them learning one defense. And actually hustling when it's called for.
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Switching up defenses would be positive. What sort of zone are you guys thinking about?
1-3-1 with Simon at the top with his length and Ponds running the baseline with his fast hands and nose for the ball. It helps limit dribble penetration and will keep Owens out of could trouble. Then some 2-3 with 3/4 pressure and aggressive traps. Try to funnel the ball handler
to one side to trap or force long cross-court passes like Dunlap did here.
I agree. Would like to see Yakwe at the top also
Yakwe is only two inches taller than Simon and Simon's wingspan is crazy. I'd think he'd be a much better option up top than Yakwe and a real threat to leak out and score in transition.
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Can you trap the corners out of a 1-3-1?
In a 2-3 you trap short corner like your life depends on it. The difference between a good coach and a great one is how obsessively they prepare their players to trap like it's second nature.
A 1-3-1 is more difficult to trap in the corner. The corners are the weakenesses of that zone. So good ball reversal and crisp decison-making will almost always eliminate a trap, but one hesitation allows the wing to close out on the ball and the baseline defender the option to trap. The 1-3-1 does a great job turning teams one-dimemnsuonal and taking away dribble penetration.
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That makes sense.....dribble penetration killed us last year .....and helped cause Tariq's foul troubles. Although doesn't a zone make it harder for our guys to box out which also decimated us in 16/17.
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Switching up defenses would be positive. What sort of zone are you guys thinking about?
1-3-1 with Simon at the top with his length and Ponds running the baseline with his fast hands and nose for the ball. It helps limit dribble penetration and will keep Owens out of could trouble. Then some 2-3 with 3/4 pressure and aggressive traps. Try to funnel the ball handler
to one side to trap or force long cross-court passes like Dunlap did here.
I agree. Would like to see Yakwe at the top also
No. Perhaps the only thing Yakwe did well on the court last year was block shots and you want to take that away from him?
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We should have a goal to keep the opposition in the sixties.
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http://nypost.com/2017/09/23/st-johns-ncaa-chances-hinge-on-improving-one-key-area/
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Amazing, how much things have changed. We need to keep it up, Congrats guys!!!!!!