Heron out for season

  • 70 replies
  • 5627 views
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2020, 08:36:37 PM »
If you're trying to become a banned martyr it won't happen.

I’d be ok with it.

nudginator59

  • *****
  • 1437
  • It's better to be a Smart ass then a Dumb shart
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2020, 12:30:16 PM »
He didn't regress. He didn't forget how to play basketball. While Heron is somewhat of a prima donna he is a talented one. As a coach you have to motivate and put players in a position to be successful.

Combination of Heron dogging and Anderson jerking him around was bad mix for a senior. Should have got Heron cooking early and often in games and let the dominos around him fall. Not the first time or last a new coach and senior bump heads. However a seasoned and experienced coach like Anderson should have figured this out because this team could have been better.

Unless we somehow strike gold in the spring recruiting I can't see this getting better.

This is a good leadership question.

Anderson has been a successful coach with a successful system that he expects his players to follow regardless of who they are.

Maybe if he was more flexible with his players he could have more success.

Why would CMA bend his style and system to a senior who you said can be a bit of a prima donna and has been dogging it?

Is it worth sacrificing some games this year to set standards and expectations for future players. Every new coach has a pass for their first year.

Would it have been better to cater to the more talented players, win more game and hopeful that will help recruit better players.

Heck CMA tenure as a Razorback was a disappointment.
(Not saying failure!)
Cougar O' Malley

Johnny23

  • *****
  • 3277
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2020, 12:50:19 PM »
He didn't regress. He didn't forget how to play basketball. While Heron is somewhat of a prima donna he is a talented one. As a coach you have to motivate and put players in a position to be successful.

Combination of Heron dogging and Anderson jerking him around was bad mix for a senior. Should have got Heron cooking early and often in games and let the dominos around him fall. Not the first time or last a new coach and senior bump heads. However a seasoned and experienced coach like Anderson should have figured this out because this team could have been better.

Unless we somehow strike gold in the spring recruiting I can't see this getting better.

Can't see it getting better? It sounds like you need to reset your expectation level a bit.

First regarding Heron, his disappointing year is on him primarily. Could the coaching contribute to it? Sure. However it's on the player first and foremost in any situation.

Same goes for Anderson when it comes to Wins and Losses. The HC is going to be the first person they point to when assigning blame and he should be as he's the face of the program. The players have a role in that after the head coach.

Now regarding the future of the team, your fatalistic outlook I think is overstated at this point. Any coach really needs three years for a program to grasp his system and everything that comes along with that.

The uber critical reviews/negativity toward Anderson this year are rather comical because no one was this hyper over the top dialed in critically on Mullin, Lavin or any other coach in their first year.

I'm still trying to figure out why you and some others on here are so destined to intimate that Anderson is on a crash course to the bottom without giving him a fair shake and some time to show it.

You say there's nothing to take away from close losses and moral victories. I disagree as I see him building a foundation that this team can be successful with.

This team has had so many close losses in the BE this year it's insane. They're a few minutes away (Butler, G'town game 2) from being right in the heart of the NCAA tourney talk.


Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2020, 01:24:01 PM »
First regarding Heron, his disappointing year is on him primarily. Could the coaching contribute to it? Sure. However it's on the player first and foremost in any situation.
Or, perhaps he's injured and it's not really on the player or coach. If my bad memory is correct - I recall him taking scary spills in the red/white game and a couple of times in out of conference games. Then he's missed a couple of games and is now seen in a walking boot. Sounds likely.

I'm reminded of all-time great Johnny warrior Phil Greene, who played out of position and injured for years, only to finally get healthy his senior season and have a breakout year. 
Quote
I'm still trying to figure out why you and some others on here are so destined to intimate that Anderson is on a crash course to the bottom without giving him a fair shake and some time to show it.
I'll explain it to you:

We have a group of people on the board, I'll call them the Traitors, that have written and continue to write terrible things about the most beloved, respected and greatest figure in the history of the basketball program we are so in love with, Chris Mullin. These same posters, the Traitors, have lauded the Duke inspired hiring of CFC since day one and have claimed him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. As the inevitable occurred, this season spiraling south out of control - our hopes at post season play yet again unceremoniously dashed, it is only natural to point out to the traitors what everyone should have already known - that winning at St. John's is a very difficult thing and thusly the programs Babe Ruth should be treated better and more respectfully in the past, present and future.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 01:25:59 PM by carmineabbatiello »

Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2020, 01:28:05 PM »
Can't see it getting better? It sounds like you need to reset your expectation level a bit.

First regarding Heron, his disappointing year is on him primarily. Could the coaching contribute to it? Sure. However it's on the player first and foremost in any situation.

Same goes for Anderson when it comes to Wins and Losses. The HC is going to be the first person they point to when assigning blame and he should be as he's the face of the program. The players have a role in that after the head coach.

Now regarding the future of the team, your fatalistic outlook I think is overstated at this point. Any coach really needs three years for a program to grasp his system and everything that comes along with that.

The uber critical reviews/negativity toward Anderson this year are rather comical because no one was this hyper over the top dialed in critically on Mullin, Lavin or any other coach in their first year.

I'm still trying to figure out why you and some others on here are so destined to intimate that Anderson is on a crash course to the bottom without giving him a fair shake and some time to show it.

You say there's nothing to take away from close losses and moral victories. I disagree as I see him building a foundation that this team can be successful with.

This team has had so many close losses in the BE this year it's insane. They're a few minutes away (Butler, G'town game 2) from being right in the heart of the NCAA tourney talk.



Right or wrong I think it’s understandable why the previous two were insulated from criticism for a while and why that hasn’t been the case with Anderson.

Lavin came in and took a team to the tournament and followed it up with a great recruiting class. It wasn’t until year 4 that he started to lose some fans.

Mullin came in with virtually no returning players and is himself the best player out school has ever had. Donations were up and the games were sold out as his time here went on.

Anderson comes in after a botched coaching search however he has the reputation of a “real coach” who presumably knows his X’s and O’s yet we have had some frustrating losses despite quality performances (in some cases).

Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2020, 01:50:50 PM »
I think Lavin and Mullin had their flaws and shortcomings but the school and administration have the most shortcomings.

Shouldn't have fired either guy and should have been smart enough to double down and figure out a solution.

Anderson is in the same boat. He isn't infallible and he isn't a bad choice but isn't the solution either.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

goredmen

  • *****
  • 5066
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2020, 01:53:09 PM »
I think Lavin and Mullin had their flaws and shortcomings but the school and administration have the most shortcomings.

Shouldn't have fired either guy and should have been smart enough to double down and figure out a solution.

Anderson is in the same boat. He isn't infallible and he isn't a bad choice but isn't the solution either.

So who was the solution in April after Hurley turned us down? And please don't say Brey again

ras

  • *****
  • 2091
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2020, 02:07:57 PM »
Or, perhaps he's injured and it's not really on the player or coach. If my bad memory is correct - I recall him taking scary spills in the red/white game and a couple of times in out of conference games. Then he's missed a couple of games and is now seen in a walking boot. Sounds likely.

I'm reminded of all-time great Johnny warrior Phil Greene, who played out of position and injured for years, only to finally get healthy his senior season and have a breakout year.  I'll explain it to you:

We have a group of people on the board, I'll call them the Traitors, that have written and continue to write terrible things about the most beloved, respected and greatest figure in the history of the basketball program we are so in love with, Chris Mullin. These same posters, the Traitors, have lauded the Duke inspired hiring of CFC since day one and have claimed him to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. As the inevitable occurred, this season spiraling south out of control - our hopes at post season play yet again unceremoniously dashed, it is only natural to point out to the traitors what everyone should have already known - that winning at St. John's is a very difficult thing and thusly the programs Babe Ruth should be treated better and more respectfully in the past, present and future.
You should listen to Marillac. Things are not all or none. If one criticizes Mullin, they are not a traitor and it doesnt mean they like CMA  and vice a versa ,If one likes CMA , it doesnt mean they hate Mullin. A posters opinion of Mullin and CMA are 2 separate entities.

Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2020, 02:26:30 PM »
So who was the solution in April after Hurley turned us down? And please don't say Brey again

Oh if I had my pick it would have been Rick Pitino
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2020, 02:26:52 PM »
You should listen to Marillac. Things are not all or none. If one criticizes Mullin, they are not a traitor and it doesnt mean they like CMA  and vice a versa ,If one likes CMA , it doesnt mean they hate Mullin. A posters opinion of Mullin and CMA are 2 separate entities.

I agree here
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

SJUFAN

  • *****
  • 2280
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2020, 02:50:21 PM »
Oh if I had my pick it would have been Rick Pitino

Can we come back from plant delusional. Realistically, who is the solution?

nudginator59

  • *****
  • 1437
  • It's better to be a Smart ass then a Dumb shart
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2020, 03:02:54 PM »
If Rick Pitino would’ve of been hired that would’ve been a big balls move.

His new nickname would’ve of been
Big Balls Bobby G.

....Correction, Dr. Big Balls Bobby G.
Cougar O' Malley

goredmen

  • *****
  • 5066
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2020, 03:13:33 PM »
Oh if I had my pick it would have been Rick Pitino

Come back to planet Earth here and try a somewhat realistic option. I would have killed for Pitino but that was never happening.

Johnny23

  • *****
  • 3277
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2020, 03:23:21 PM »
Pitino was never coming here. Next...

Foad

  • *****
  • 6065
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2020, 03:24:41 PM »
So who was the solution in April after Hurley turned us down? And please don't say Brey again


Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2020, 03:49:23 PM »
Pitino would have came to St. John's.

St. John's would not have Pitino.

I think as an administration there needs to be a long term vision. What is happening with Carnesecca Arena, Taffner, etc. Can they attract and keep a coach here for 10 years?

You make a bet on young hot shot? Established? Someone who's had recent success at a tier below?

Either way need an open checkbook for coaching staff and budget for team. Lavin showed early on when the school gets necessary resources you can do big things
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2020, 03:55:08 PM »
Dave - I know enough to realize that you hear things or get information I'm not privy to about the school.  From a distance - someone who watches every game and follows the team - a "mass exodus" wouldn't make sense.

Williams has improved.  His Dad also is extremely positive about Anderson on Twitter, and seems as if he is often posting on behalf of not just Greg Jr but also Roberts and Earlington.

Roberts/Earlington - both improved, playing and light years better.  We've seen what kids with one foot out the door look like - neither of these seem to be the case.

I'd say the same thing on Carraher. 

Dunn - again, besides that he's moved around a lot, his Uncle has nothing but public praise for Anderson and the staff from what I've seen.

If you are talking about Steere, it makes sense even before the suspension.  Do I know whose fault that is - no.  If the kid wasn't in shape, wasn't practicing hard, and wasn't buying in, what are you supposed to do?  He's already been at one major program that he stayed at for all but two seconds before the Marco-Polo of recruiters brought him in the door.  Perhaps he has some of the Keita/Dixon/Wright "itus", which wouldn't be the first time that this happened with one of Mr. Nebraska's recruits.

As for Heron, without knowing anything, I'm not ready to put him in the same boat as Lovett.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Heron doesn't seem like the type of kid who would do this.  He's still around the team and engaged.  He publicly praised the hire of Anderson when it happened, having played against his teams in the SEC.  The writing was on the wall with Lovett based on his history and public comments made by his Dad about not wanting to risk injury any further.  Heron has something to gain by playing well down the stretch, on multiple levels.


No coincidence Heron bounces 24hrs after I hear about mutiny of mass exodus.

goredmen

  • *****
  • 5066
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2020, 04:22:33 PM »


It was embarrassing that we even offered that guy the job. 10x more embarrassing when he rejected it.

Foad

  • *****
  • 6065
Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2020, 04:42:44 PM »
It was embarrassing that we even offered that guy the job. 10x more embarrassing when he rejected it.

Okay, but this is why your question - "So who was the solution in April after Hurley turned us down?" - is kind of silly. We could have offered - pie in the sky - Pitino sure but why not otherwise Schrewshensi, Billies Self and Gillespie, Larry Brown, even Tubby Smith was available. Because you can offer anyone. None of them would have said yes. So yes we considered a bunch of coaches many of whom stank who were under contract but were the coaches considered not recommended by Jeff Capel as home runs available. We'll never know, because the search was bollocks which leads inexorably to the conclusion that they should never have fired Lavin. And he was awful.

Re: Heron out for season
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2020, 05:19:22 PM »
the core of this team next year is dunn, williams, earlington, champagnie, and roberts. short of 2 or more of those guys leaving, there is no mass exodus.  I don't claim to know whether those guys are or aren't leaving, but I'm just skeptical because we hear claims like this all the time that don't come to fruition.