6th Man of St. John's Basketball
Non-Sport Related Discussion => Union and Utopia => Topic started by: 19854ever on April 22, 2011, 02:25:50 PM
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Dave it is nice to be a part of this site and great job creating all things St. John's University related sub forum.
Every year or so on Redmen.com or on BEB I would create a thread asking St. John's shareholders(students, parents, alumni, season ticket holders etc.) to provide improvements, recommendations and suggestions the school should make.
Since Redmen.com is on hiatus I figured I would bring back this post and look forward to hearing from other posters. The school is definitely headed in the right direction with the addition of Steve Lavin; the buyouts to "dead wood" veteran professors/administrators Jim Pellow’s departure in my opinion are all positive signs. I do think more must be done see below:
• Move the majority if not all Tobin College of Business graduate courses to the downtown campus (SJU needs to attract more young financial professionals, the best place to do this is a few blocks from Wall Street) some classes could remain in Queens or SI but I like the Manhattan approach. Fordham does it and it works well for them
•The Tuition inflation issue –SJU’s tuition is now $33,125 per year. This is a serious burden to middle class families, I understand the school does a wonderful job in making sure 95% of its students body gets some form of financial aid, however maybe if tuition hikes were frozen for a few years a certain % of the student body could afford the school, in 13 years when my daughter will be 18 I could see SJU being a $60,000 school, at what point is it worth sending your daughter or son there. More needs to be done, I would love Fr. Harrington have a discussion with Brendan Dugan President of St. Francis College and ask him how is able to offer a comparable undergraduate education at half the price of St. John’s. To me the recent school’s budget deficit was the result of “Let’s follow what every other preppy private school in the country is doing”. SJU is not Fairfield or BC, it has a different mission
- Use 25% of the endowment funds immediately to help defray tuition increases as the school works on a real long term tuition solution
• Merge core departments like Math, Philosophy, Theology, English and Math in one school, there is no reason the school needs to have increased professors, and admin support for similar subjects in both St. John’s College and CPS(formerly St. Vincent’s College)
• Investigate which majors are lacking attendance, interest and alumni support and eliminate these programs.
• Please create seats with backs on both sides of CA only doing it on one side was very shortsighted
• Invest more resources into a PA program than what is currently offered(health care is still a booming field SJU needs to be a part of this change)
• Devote increased resources to the Computer Science program
• Father Harrington(or whomever) the Next President is needs to be more accessible to students, parents and alumni, Fr. Cahill would eat his lunch in the cafeteria, he was very likable person FH will only have a conversation with you if you are spending a $1,000 a plate, this arrogant attitude needs to change
Thanks,
1985
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Seat backs on the other side is not enough. For a 35 million dollar renovation they got 35cents worth. Should have enlarged to at least 8,000 cushioned seat backed seats.
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A lot of good ideas but being a TCB graduate student I don't know how I would feel having to trek to Manhattan for class every day. The Queens campus is just so much easier to get to for many students. It would probably be beneficial for the academic portion but the students and professors would probably not want to travel.
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I love this thread. Keep it going. University administrators look at this site and with reasonable well thought out suggestions I'm sure they'd be taken under advisement.
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Those interested in St. John's welfare, beyond the basketball team, might find the Dec. issue of Kiplinger's interesting. They rate private colleges, considering both academic and economic variables. The mag ranks the top fifty and the website had the top hundred. Many of our regular opponents were listed, including ND, G'town, Villanova, Providence, Marquette, Fordham and most of the Catholic schools from the West Coast Conf. Absent from the top hundred were STJ, DePaul, Niagara, as well as Hofstra and Seton Hall. While there have been some improvements at STJ, they are still far from being a solid academic institution. The survey also projects the tuition at each of the schools, absent financial aid, and it will shock some, as it averages about $50,000.
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205 Tuttle I would love to get your opinion on improvements and recommendations...Thanks 1985
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Those interested in St. John's welfare, beyond the basketball team, might find the Dec. issue of Kiplinger's interesting. They rate private colleges, considering both academic and economic variables. The mag ranks the top fifty and the website had the top hundred. Many of our regular opponents were listed, including ND, G'town, Villanova, Providence, Marquette, Fordham and most of the Catholic schools from the West Coast Conf. Absent from the top hundred were STJ, DePaul, Niagara, as well as Hofstra and Seton Hall. While there have been some improvements at STJ, they are still far from being a solid academic institution. The survey also projects the tuition at each of the schools, absent financial aid, and it will shock some, as it averages about $50,000.
Regarding St. John's being far from being a solid academic institution. That is simply not true as a blanket statement. St. John's School of Pharmacy has an excellent program as are other disciplines within The College of Allied Health Professions.
TCB has an excellent Accounting program.
In addition, the university has other solid programs which can hold their own compared with many of the aforementioned.
Does this apply to every program.? Of course not.
I wouldn't get too caught up in the various rating/ranking services/magazines as a be all and end all.
Structurally there are some things that work against St. John's. For example, St. John's has a School of Education and The College of Professional Studies which act as a drag on the university's overall SAT scores for entering freshmen.
However, both (School of Education and CPS) offer students an opportunity to prepare for a profession that is important to them.
Schools like ND, G'Town, BC and Fordham do not offer these programs on an undergrad level and there is also nothing wrong with that.
St. John's also doesn't have a Schools of Engineering, Nursing, Foreign Service, or Architecture which help the so called elite institutions improve their overall student academic profile.
St. John's is also a fairly large school. If you took the top 1200 - 1500 or so freshman at St. John's and compared them with the their peer group at Nova, PC or Fordham, I would think they would shape up very well. In addition, the Catholic colleges on the West Coast have relatively small student bodies so it's tough to compare on an apples to apples basis.
By the way, I was out in San Diego a few weeks ago and visited USD. It does have an amazing campus and will be one of my favorites in the next life!!
PC is a fine institution but I always thought of it as a back up plan for kids who didn't get into BC.
St. John's is far more financially diverse institution with a huge chunk of the student body coming from families with AGI's below $50K annually.
Typically these students are the first members of their immediate family to attend college. You will be hard pressed to find a first generation college student at many elite schools. St. John's isn't a finishing school. Many (or a majority) of the kids that enter St. John's are not the products of families of financial advantage.
Although I am an alumnus, I realize (and have for quite sometime) that St. John's is never going to be G'Town, BC, or Notre Dame and I'm fine with that.
St. John's offers young men and women the opportunity to get a good education, make the most of NYC and it's opportunities and provide a good life for them and their families.
Also remember that recognition typically lags reality. Let's not forget that the many major capital projects and the introduction of resident students (who have higher SAT's and GPA's) than non-residents have happened within only the last 20 yrs. These dynamics will, no doubt, have a positive influence in the perception of the university as we go forward. Particularly as the university is in a position to realistically recruit students from a more geographically diverse pool of applicants.
And it certainly would help if we talked up the benefits of St. John's and what it has meant to us. . At times, I think many of us have an inferiority complex as it pertains to St. John's and we don't champion our alma mater as much as other graduates may and often do about theirs.
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205 Tuttle I would love to get your opinion on improvements and recommendations...Thanks 1985
For fun, let me ask if anyone thinks that The Law School could (or should) be moved to Manhattan or S.I. to open up an academic building or a dorm for undergrads in Queens? Would the university be better off (as it pertains to undergrads) if the Law School was somewhere else. Remember Seton Hall Law is in Newark, not South Orange and Fordham Law is located in Lincoln Center not Rose Hill. In addition, Georgetown Law is in D.C. and not on The G'Town campus.
Realize that is somewhat of an outlandish statement but what the heck always good to provoke some thought.
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Which Big East school looks best on the resume?
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Which Big East school looks best on the resume?
Notre Dame? If you must play FB then I'd guess Georgetown.
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ND certainly has the more loyal alumni base. Grads like to hire Domers and often do. Excellent Placement Office
One of the few schools whose alumni still wear their college rings.
If you are looking for a job in the tri-state area, a degree from ND (particularly in Accounting, Engineering, Architecture, or "the sciences") will usually get your resume a look.
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Which Big East school looks best on the resume?
Notre Dame? If you must play FB then I'd guess Georgetown.
When I interviewed perspective candidates for positions where I worked, my favorites were the endee grads.
I would ask them straight up why they decided to spend the greatest 4 years of their life in Indiana.
The looks on their faces were priceless.
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Re 1985's observation re tuition at St. John's
To me the issue is the amount of scholarship money that the university can provide so that kids don't have to graduate with over $20K in debt.
St. John's is not going to use their endowment for a source of funds for scholarships.
Unfortunately, a majority of our grads either can't, could care less, or do not want to write checks to fund scholarship programs.
Just read ND is expected to award $106 million next year in scholarship awards nearly double the $60 million awarded for the 2004-05 academic year.
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205,
Thanks for your insights valuable as always. I will agree to disagree on tuition, I think the school needs to be proactive and do their best to make tuition affordable, decreasing or stagnating tuition in the long term will lessen the need for financial aid and help families.
The only figure SJU provides is that 95% receive some type of aid(well what % of the 95% are for loans the student needs to pay back after graduation) If that % is significant and the debt burden is north of $20K, then something needs to be done.
SJU needs to go back to being an affordable option, not an expensive option like Fairfield.
Think St. Francis College but with better academics, Big East sports and more students.
I would keep SJU Law where it is for now, unless maybe the School of Risk Management in Manhattan can expand to be an SJU grad center for business, law and insurance.
The Harrington way, has been build, borrow, and leverage more from middle class families. The Cahill way was more austere and closer to the real ideals of the Vincentian mission.
I think the next President (hopefully gets on board sooner than later) can bring the likability and down to earth ways of Fr. Cahill, with the fundraising corporate professionalism of FH.
Thanks,
1985
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I graduated from that PA program before SJU bought it. It's a great program and there is little room for it to grow, as it's size is already large enough and comparable to other PA programs. The attrition rate isn't high from the pre-PA program because it is very challenging. Essentially it weeds out the kids that can't hack it. Bottom line is that the acquisition of the PA program was one of the best things the school did in the last 10 years. It is one of the hottest fields in America, and SJU is pumping out quality grads from every field in the school of Pharmacy and Allied Health. IMO it is one f the strongest schools that SJU has and needs little change except to maybe add more healtcare fields available.
SJU should certainly do a review of the schools that a pulling down the academic standing at SJU and try to trim them or at least skim some of the lower level applicant pool. I also read some recommending SJU start a school of Engineering and I think it is a fantastic idea if they ever did so.
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MCNPA's points are well taken.
I would also add, that a School of Nursing and a School of Physical Therapy would dovetail nicely with The College of Pharmacy and Allied Health Professions.
Not only would these schools attract "good" students, but they would also prepare them for a rewarding career.
If a student and his/her family is going to be on the proverbial hook for over $20K in loans after graduation, it would be nice to know that their chances of obtaining a job in their chosen field were reasonably good .
IMO, there are 2 things that this world doesn't need more of: Italian restaurants and Psychology majors.
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For what it's worth, noticed The President said today that the U.S. should graduate 10,000 American engineers every year.
For those that have suggested, in the past, (on this site as well as redmen.com) that St. John's should create a School of Engineering, the aforementioned would appear to give support to that idea.
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Assume for a second that a resident student, after grants and other non-loan financial aid for tuition and room and board, needs to pay $10K per semester out of pocket. That is $80K over 4 years as we all can figure out on our own.
If someone (student and/or parents) is shelling out that kind of $$, shouldn't they be receiving a first rate education that will allow them to compete with those who attend the so-called highly competitive universities.
Realize this will never, ever happen but I would require the following courses for graduation from St. John's:
2 courses on The Great Books of the 20th Century.
4 courses on The History of Western Civilization.
An Ethics course
A course on Logic
4 Math courses (realize this would start a small riot, but this is the 21st Century. Course work could be adopted to a student's proficiency in the subject)
2 courses on The Great Religions of the World. As an aside, only about 50% of the St. John's undergrad student population identify themselves as CATHOLIC.
4 Science/Technology/Computer Science courses (see observations for math courses).
A Creative Writing courses
A Macro Economics course
Arguably, one can take a majority of "fluff" courses that will result in an impressive GPA and a degree no one cares about, or one can follow a rigorous program of study that will enable them to successfully compete for a well paying career.
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4 courses on The History of Western Civilization.
World's becomin a smaller place bre. While I dig the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightement same as the next brutha, think it would best serve kids to look at the histry of the Mid East and East Asia.
Plus African histry is severly underrepresented in schools.
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Wouldn't have any objection if you wanted to knock out a Western Civ. class or two, and substitute your suggestion. It's a point well taken.
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A school of engineering on the Queens campus would be a fantastic idea. I have no idea if it has ever been a conversation amongst the SJU brass though.
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Well, unlike I thought, we do have some reach into the engineering fields, but only a few of them and not extensive:
http://www.stjohns.edu/academics/undergraduate/liberalarts/departments/physics/programs/bs_be.stj (http://www.stjohns.edu/academics/undergraduate/liberalarts/departments/physics/programs/bs_be.stj)
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An engineering school would be a great idea and long overdue frankly. The majority of major universities have one and it would improve the quality of the univversity.
I also agree that the computer science program should be strengthened.
As a TCB MBA alumn, i would definately like to see the business school improved. Not sure if moving the program to the manhattan campus is of great importance to achieve this.
While i agree that STJ will never be G-Town or ND (at least not in our lifetimes), it can become comparable to schools like Northeastern and Fordham within a couple of decades if the right decisions are made
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If St. John's wants to be in the same ballpark with Fordham they better get on the proverbial stick.
It's not as if Fordham is going to wait for St. John's to catch up. U.S. News has them ranked somewhere around the 55th best school in the country which is in the same neighborhood as Syracuse, Boston University, Rutgers and Pitt.
The president of Fordham at least states that he is gunning for BC, their Jesuit rival (at least in the eyes of those at Rose Hill).
Not that it's going to happen any time in the near future, but at least he is saying that he wants Fordham to be a top tier school and has made it a primary objective for the university.
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The business/ academic model for St. John's is outdated.
When St. John's was opened in 1870 it was created for the good and noble purpose of educating the masses. In 1870 there was no State University of New York and there was no City University of New York to provide those opportunities to the same population that St. John's served.
St. John's can't compete with the public schools for price, and as poster "Tuttle" has pointed out the academic profile of St.John's entering class becomes watered down by the bottom 1/3 of the entering class. St. John's currently has approximately 15,000 undergrads.
My suggestion is that St.John's cut its undergrad enrollment to 9,000 students which would have the effect of (x) cutting costs, (y) raising the academic profile of the school, and (z) allowing the financial aid more to be used to assist fewer students.
In my opinion the traditional "Catholic" schools must raise their academic profile or face tough times. Fifty years ago neither Boston College nor Villanova were considered to be distinguished academic schools but today each have moved to be nationally respected schools. Likewise Providence College has successfully raised its academic profile. The best way for St.John's to bolster its academic credibility is to reduce its undergrad enrollment. A smaller undergrad enrollment would also increase the proportion of undergrads that can live on campus thereby increasing the sense of community.
Does anyone agree?
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The mission to provide need-based assistance to minority students hurts the universities academic standing a lot. If they want to keep better students they need to offer more academic scholarships to deserving students and cut down the admission to unqualified students. St. John's accepts literally everyone who applies, don't believe any of that acceptance rate stuff, that's only because they offer a free application so every clown in the city and Long Island applies. When you accept nearly everyone and offer very generous need-based aid, you're going to have a lot of students in school who aren't good students.
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The point I attempted to make with my above post is that the SUNY and CUNY systems each provide quality education for the masses at affordable costs.
Neither SUNY nor CUNY existed in 1870 when St.John's was founded.
The College Board indicates that the average St.John's undergrad indebtedness at graduation is a staggering $32,886. As much as I love St.John's I do not know whether the St.John's name is worth the expense for an undergrad liberal arts major versus a SUNY school.
St.John's can't compete with the public schools for affordable education and as such it should modify its goals to provide the highest quality education with generous financial assistance for those that could not otherwise afford to attend.
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I wouldn't necessarily disagree with any of the last 3 posts, although trimming the student body some 5K students may be a tad problematic.
To be fair, a lot of positive things have happened at the university over the last 20yrs. including (and in no small part) the transformation of the Jamaica campus, the purchase of the College of Insurance and the expansion of The College of Pharmacy and Allied Health Professions.
That said, one still needs to put bodies in the classroom and St. John's may have been forced to adopt more liberal admission standards, on the margin, than others that they compete with for students.
Many, if not most, of the ideas I have read on this board are well taken. However, the proverbial "political will" doesn't seem to be shared with the powers that be at Utopia Parkway.
Bottom line is that FH and Board of Trustees have chosen who they want to be and they don't appear to change course any time soon. They have an established business model, if you will, and obviously they think it is successful since they are not having a problem filling seats. Arguably they are more focused on quantity above overall student quality.
One can argue the merits of such a strategy but the St. John's administration has been quite honest about their mission and intention. It is what it is, and it is not going to change. The U.S. News & World Report ranking is simply not a priority for the school.
As a 40 year plus observer of the St. John's scene, I would be very surprised to see the creation of a School of Engineering, Nursing, Architecture, or Physical Therapy (which would enhance the student profile to a meaningful degree and boost the school's ranking) in the near future or even by 2070 when St. John's will celebrate its 200th anniversary .
If one thinks that the new normal is 7% or 8% unemployment, it is going to more ferocious than ever for graduates to corral good paying jobs in the career of their choice. I read that unemployment for college grads is closer to 4% or 5% but I wonder how many of those grads are working in their chosen fields or are making enough money where they can afford their own home (or apt.).
It's great to have a college degree and I would rather have one than not, but going forward a college degree, particularly in the NY area, is no longer a guarantee of life on easy street.
At some point (i.e when interviewing for one's first job) a young man or woman is going to have to differentiate themselves from their competition. A fair and legitimate question is will a degree from St. John's assist them in this effort.
Personally, I think the answer is most likely "yes" if you graduate from the School of Pharmacy or have a degree in Accounting from TCB, or have a degree in Chemistry, Physics, or Math from SJC.
I'm not so sure the question can be answered in the affirmative for many other majors at St. John's. But I guess I can say the same for many other local colleges.
Speaking for myself, I think most kids today would be better served to go to a community school for 2 yrs. and then transfer to a SUNY school if they are going to pursue most liberal arts fields of study and save the $$ for a good grad school.
People can spend their $$$ any way they want but it would appear to me, sitting in the cheap seats, that many students and their families have no clue about the consequences of student loan debt or the skills they need to be able to compete in the job market. Many are simply delusional, and don't figure it out until it is too late.
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205 Tuttle you bring up some great points.
However,I do think the school is listening to the serious ideas and suggestions placed on this site and previosuly on Redmen.com and BEB. I know of one woman who works in development mention to me that she read Redmen.com frequently and enjoyed for the most part the civil dialogue and solid ideas bantered about.
Also I do think Brian Shea's who is a member of the BOT influence in the hiring of Steve Lavin was in part a reaction to the fans dissatisfaction placed on the various message boards, Brian worked very hard with Mike Repole and Chris Monasch to no not let the Status Quo way of doing things continue.
Kudos to them.
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Much like Father Harrington did not understand just how good the St. John's athletic program could be, I do not believe he and his brain trust understand just how much the schools academics could be.
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Much like Father Harrington did not understand just how good the St. John's athletic program could be, I do not believe he and his brain trust understand just how much the schools academics could be.
Very well said. Sometimes it takes striving for excellence to prove that excellence can really be had. Lavin changed our reputation and ceiling overnight. Sometimes increased expectations are a good thing. SJU is not a trade school. I don't think SJU should have their sights set on Harvard, but this is not a trade school. SJU's approach should be along the practical lines that it has always been and not academia, but things must change moving forward. Practical fields like Engineering, healthcare etc. prepare students to attain jobs. Like I said, SJU did a great thing by acquiring the Physician Assistant school and adding it to their Allied Health school. PA's are all graduating with high GPA's, all have tons of jobs available, and most in 6 figure range. Goes to show that SJU can adapt and has done so successfully. We just need more of that.
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I don't think too many of us would mind if we had our sights set on Villanova (which has a school of engineering and nursing).
As I recall reading in Jim Pellow's book, FH had to be convinced that dorms were a necessity if St. John's was going to be a viable national institution. Much to his credit, and to be fair, FH changed his mind after a compelling case was brought before him.
That said, since FH is at the tail end of his tenure, I wouldn't expect any dramatic changes in direction as it pertains to the school's academic offering.
Our best hope is that the next president of St. John's has a vision that would include a dramatic improvement in the university's overall academic reputation.
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205 I agree wholeheartedly, I also think the next President needs to be friendlier though.
If Fr. Harrington is like Cardinal Egan, the next President needs to be more like Archbishop Timothy Dolan in temperament and accessability.
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When I was on the e-board of Student Government at St. John's, I met with Father Harrington on a monthly basis. He told us that St. John's could easily be on the same level with Fordham, Villanova, and other top Catholic schools, but he wanted to stay close the mission. I argued that the creation of community colleges and the growth of the CUNY system have really changed things and that niche has really been filled.
I think Father Harrington has done a great job, but his emphasis has never been and will never be on improving the academic resume of the school. One of the leading candidates to replace Father Harrington, Sister Margeret Fitzpatrick of St. Thomas Aquinas, would definitely make that a priority. She setup a joint program with NYU there and started a relationship with STJ School of Law for a graduating STAC students.
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The "mission" for St. John's is noble but Harrington and his posse have used it as an excuse for academic mediocrity.
I challenge anyone to find any old tme "Catholis" college that was not established to educate the poor. The difference is that Boston College, Notre Dame, Georgetown, Fordham, and Villanova have sophisticated leaders who elected to provide first class education to the poor rather than compete with the state schools. Providence College and other med tier Catholics not attract students with better academic qualifications.
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When I was on the e-board of Student Government at St. John's, I met with Father Harrington on a monthly basis. He told us that St. John's could easily be on the same level with Fordham, Villanova, and other top Catholic schools, but he wanted to stay close the mission. I argued that the creation of community colleges and the growth of the CUNY system have really changed things and that niche has really been filled.
I think Father Harrington has done a great job, but his emphasis has never been and will never be on improving the academic resume of the school. One of the leading candidates to replace Father Harrington, Sister Margeret Fitzpatrick of St. Thomas Aquinas, would definitely make that a priority. She setup a joint program with NYU there and started a relationship with STJ School of Law for a graduating STAC students.
Well, SJU must go that direction if we want to survive. You are right Marillac, that the niche you speak of is filled. SJU can still honor that mission without breaking down all academic standards to do so. The Mission is to educate the poor. That doesn't mean that all of the poor are poor students with low GPA's that should be attending a private Catholic College in NYC. I think SJU's sights should certainly be set on schools like Nova, Fordham, Holy Cross etc. There is no reason at all that the school can't attain that status with a few changes including tightening standards, and changing offerings a bit.
I really hope that when Father Harrington steps down which should be soon, we land somebody who can and will take SJU to that next level. We lucked into Steve Lavin basketball-wise quite a bit. Need more than luck with the next President, and hopefully one that has a fresh mission, not just status quo.
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http://adage.com/article/media/time-warner-cable-hearst-hbo-verizon-fund-nyc-media-lab/241291/ (http://adage.com/article/media/time-warner-cable-hearst-hbo-verizon-fund-nyc-media-lab/241291/)
missed opportunity, we should be in the mix for this.
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IMO in order to really live up to the "metropolitan" mission of the university, St. John's needs to create/ improve on the below majors.
St. Johns is not taking advantage of being in "NYC", something they need to capitalize on.
NYC Financial capital of the world -> STJ needs develop and expand the graduate program on the Manhattan campus, with so many people in the financial district coming to NYC, and then once they are in established positions with fortune 500 companies, choose to pursue a higher degree. They should be able to take advantage of the Manhattan campus location. STJ could compete with NYU, Fordham, and Baruch's Manhattan grad schools.
Communications / Advertising capital -> Madison Ave. is known for being the center of advertising (not just in Mad Men, in real life) Not to mention most of the communications industry is headquartered in NY (CBS, NBC, ABC, Viacom, News Corp.). STJ Must at least expand on the communications department, if not create a communications school.
NYC Architecture-> with such a big and ever expanding major world leading metropolitan city as your backdrop, its another missed opportunity, Not to mention the Rome and Paris campus give them the opportunity to easily study old world and new world architecture, an advantage most other programs probably do not have.
That should be a start... The Queens campus also needs to keep expanding, I think they are at about 4,000+ dormers, that should go up to about 8,000, and start buying out those random houses that are basically on campus (behind the town houses, and by gate 6) they are quickly running out of room.
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IMO in order to really live up to the "metropolitan" mission of the university, St. John's needs to create/ improve on the below majors.
St. Johns is not taking advantage of being in "NYC", something they need to capitalize on.
NYC Financial capital of the world -> STJ needs develop and expand the graduate program on the Manhattan campus, with so many people in the financial district coming to NYC, and then once they are in established positions with fortune 500 companies, choose to pursue a higher degree. They should be able to take advantage of the Manhattan campus location. STJ could compete with NYU, Fordham, and Baruch's Manhattan grad schools.
Communications / Advertising capital -> Madison Ave. is known for being the center of advertising (not just in Mad Men, in real life) Not to mention most of the communications industry is headquartered in NY (CBS, NBC, ABC, Viacom, News Corp.). STJ Must at least expand on the communications department, if not create a communications school.
NYC Architecture-> with such a big and ever expanding major world leading metropolitan city as your backdrop, its another missed opportunity, Not to mention the Rome and Paris campus give them the opportunity to easily study old world and new world architecture, an advantage most other programs probably do not have.
That should be a start... The Queens campus also needs to keep expanding, I think they are at about 4,000+ dormers, that should go up to about 8,000, and start buying out those random houses that are basically on campus (behind the town houses, and by gate 6) they are quickly running out of room.
The neighborhood had the old admin by the balls. I used to be a part of the committe that met with them and there are a lot of limiting restrictions...height of dorms, etc. The old admin never challenged that and always catered to the surrounding community.
Also, there are (or were, at lest) standing offers on all the houses immediately surrounding the campus.
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I never understood the height restrictions as there are other buildings in fresh meadows with more than 6 stories. Is there some sort of law against it?
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Much like Father Harrington did not understand just how good the St. John's athletic program could be, I do not believe he and his brain trust understand just how much the schools academics could be.
Very well said. Sometimes it takes striving for excellence to prove that excellence can really be had. Lavin changed our reputation and ceiling overnight. Sometimes increased expectations are a good thing. SJU is not a trade school. I don't think SJU should have their sights set on Harvard, but this is not a trade school. SJU's approach should be along the practical lines that it has always been and not academia, but things must change moving forward. Practical fields like Engineering, healthcare etc. prepare students to attain jobs. Like I said, SJU did a great thing by acquiring the Physician Assistant school and adding it to their Allied Health school. PA's are all graduating with high GPA's, all have tons of jobs available, and most in 6 figure range. Goes to show that SJU can adapt and has done so successfully. We just need more of that.
All very well stated. We've never taken full advantage of our proximity to the Metropolitan area either in sports or academics. It's always amazed me that Long Island, one of the more fertile areas anywhere doesn't have a top notch university. As a result the residents are forced to send their kids elsewhere spending a fortune in the process and draining the local economy. SJU has always tended to establish mediocre offerings to draw more students while ignoring the top notch kids in it's backyard. Unfortunately a lot of this is based on our reputation which has been allowed to flounder over the years. I doubt whether we can overcome this across the board but there is no reason why a segment of the school couldn't be devoted to superior academics to start the ball rolling in the right direction. It pisses me off to see the millions being exported to the Podunk schools who've had the wisdom to establish good academic reputations. There are huge advantages inherent in our location that the Vincentians have ignored and you can't tell me that a president who adorns himself with Patek watches and $1000 suits isn't aware of this. We are long overdue for some enlightened leadership and I hope Lavin and the change of administration get this school to where it should be in the near future.
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Well, the US News 2014 rankings are out. And St. Johns is ranked at #152. Behind such schools as Depaul, Hofstra, Seton Hall, SUNY Albany!
The law ranking has dropped to 98th this year. Behind Syracuse. What the hell is going on with the administration of this place?! SJU could so easily be a top 110 university within a few years if the people who ran this school had a clue.
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DePaul:
http://premium.usnews.com/best-colleges/depaul-university-1671/rankings?int=c6b9e3 (http://premium.usnews.com/best-colleges/depaul-university-1671/rankings?int=c6b9e3)
St. John's:
http://premium.usnews.com/best-colleges/st-johns-university-2823/rankings?int=c6b9e3 (http://premium.usnews.com/best-colleges/st-johns-university-2823/rankings?int=c6b9e3)
Retention and 6 yr. grad rate doesn't help us.
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Well, the US News 2014 rankings are out. And St. Johns is ranked at #152. Behind such schools as Depaul, Hofstra, Seton Hall, SUNY Albany!
The law ranking has dropped to 98th this year. Behind Syracuse. What the hell is going on with the administration of this place?! SJU could so easily be a top 110 university within a few years if the people who ran this school had a clue.
DePaul and Albany were always better schools than St.John's. Seton Hall is not really a surprise. I always had them pegged around St.John's. I'm actually surprised that St.John's is ranked #152. That's better than I expected.
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Well, the US News 2014 rankings are out. And St. Johns is ranked at #152. Behind such schools as Depaul, Hofstra, Seton Hall, SUNY Albany!
The law ranking has dropped to 98th this year. Behind Syracuse. What the hell is going on with the administration of this place?! SJU could so easily be a top 110 university within a few years if the people who ran this school had a clue.
Since SJ's is not a hardcore research university, I recommend taking a tried and true approach that other schools have employed: as a starter, find one department to key on building up into the spotlight by poaching a heavyweight professor (a Nobel Prize winner type, a researcher well known in his/her field, or a nationally known faculty for example) and let them use their notoriety to start adding some high end young faculty. Having one department shine starts changing perceptions, and they move on from there. Where I live, George Mason enhanced its reputation for its business school when it hired Walter Williams in the Economics dept., and he took over as Dept Chair shortly thereafter. It took 20 years, but it has to start somewhere.
So I conclude with: Start with your faculty. Need to put up (cash), or shut up. Get the faculty, and the quality of students will move up too. Do good in sports, and more high end students want to go to SJ's.
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Well, the US News 2014 rankings are out. And St. Johns is ranked at #152. Behind such schools as Depaul, Hofstra, Seton Hall, SUNY Albany!
The law ranking has dropped to 98th this year. Behind Syracuse. What the hell is going on with the administration of this place?! SJU could so easily be a top 110 university within a few years if the people who ran this school had a clue.
Syracuse was a tier three law school like five years ago and SJU was knocking on tier one. That is crazy.
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Well, the US News 2014 rankings are out. And St. Johns is ranked at #152. Behind such schools as Depaul, Hofstra, Seton Hall, SUNY Albany!
The law ranking has dropped to 98th this year. Behind Syracuse. What the hell is going on with the administration of this place?! SJU could so easily be a top 110 university within a few years if the people who ran this school had a clue.
Syracuse was a tier three law school like five years ago and SJU was knocking on tier one. That is crazy.
Harrington was too busy accepting gifts (and I don't mean God's Gift), looking the other way and making shady deals to worry about the state of the university.
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Latest 2015 US News law rankings. St. Johns drops to 107th.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+5 (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+5)
Really. As an MBA alumn i am really disturbed by the management of my B-school alma mater. i think a cleaning of house is needed and replace all of these mediocre small time people with an administration and faculty that has a vision and effective strategy for improvement.