6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: 4redmen on November 28, 2007, 06:20:51 PM
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I've heard this a few times,but not sure where or how to vote.
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Which century?
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18th century.
Nathanael Greene, Henry Knox, and all-colonial floor "General" George Washington.
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I used to play with old Henry... his damn wig kept falling in his eyes..
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I used to play with old Henry... his damn wig kept falling in his eyes..
I *think* you had second team honors. Congrats!
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In the St. John's Media year book, it mentions "A dedicated 100th Anniversary Website will be launched on the new RedStormSports.com this fall. Vote on St John's 25-man "All-Century Team". This is a challenge, The Johnnies have had 59 NBA Draft choices over the years( 16 in the 1st round). I don't think any players from this Century would make it on. Mase & D. Hill both have had 2 good years that's not enough. The Redmen have nine Top 10 finishes in the AP & UPI polls. 26 "Big Dance" Tournament appearances. These teams had many impact players. Go Johnnies !!!
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damn 4redmen thanks for the info you have facebook? you should create some questions in that STJ bball app we need more on there
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we are currently ranked 12th on the facebook for # of fans in the Big East we were closing ground on Seton Hall until they started to win their fans went ^^^^
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By order of what I saw as greatest wit my own eyes.
Walter Berry
Chris Mullin
Malik Sealy
Mark Jackson
Boo
Ron Artest
Billy Goodwin
Willie Glass
Jayson Williams
Bill Wennington
Shelton Jones
Billy Singleton
Matt Brust
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Good list, Choz, although I think a few are a stretch :)
I saw these guys that have to be in:
Sonny Dove
Mel Davis
Billy Schaeffer
and my all-time favorite Redman:
George Johnson
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My(players i've seen) SJU "ALL-Century" squad :
G - Mark Jackson
G - Chris Mullin
F - Malik Sealy
F - Justin Burrell
F - Walter Berry
2nd team :
G - Boo Harvey
G - Ron Artest
F - Willie Glass
F - David Russell
F - Shelton Jones
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My(players i've seen) SJU "ALL-Century" squad :
G - Mark Jackson
G - Chris Mullin
F - Malik Sealy
F - Justin Burrell
F - Walter Berry
2nd team :
G - Boo Harvey
G - Ron Artest
F - Willie Glass
F - David Russell
F - Shelton Jones
Berry, Hatten, Mullin, Sealy, Artest.
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burrell??? he may not make the all big east freshman team this year.
st john's has had some of the all time greatest players in college basketball history.
burrell??
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Can't put Burrell on any list yet. Obviously that's a projection on OR's part, but it's still premature. I hope you're right though!
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LOL @ burrell. "he is the best freshman since mullin" though. so who knows.
PG: Mark Jackson, Erik Barkley
SG: Chris Mullin, Marcus Hatten
SF: Malik Sealy, Ron Artest
PF: Walter Berry, Lloyd Dove
C: Bill Wennington, Zendon Hamilton
hadda guess/research on a few (dove, hamilton, wennington)
i'll be honest. stj tradition's pretty overrated.
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cant believe Is fogot Felipe and Zendon. Bad years but I gots mad respct.
I know all y'all love Marcus Hatten, but I dont think he all that when you compare him to teh all time greats. Brotha was clutch but he jack up mo shots than Kobe.
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LOL @ burrell. "he is the best freshman since mullin" though. so who knows.
i'll be honest. stj tradition's pretty overrated.
Ur clueless "hero"... and please name me the last SJU freshmen to average 15 points & 10 rebounds after his first four games? Plus, the kid had 19/12 last game & didn't even play that well... in other words talk to me at the END of the season. Of course he probably does not "deserve" to be mentioned with the SJU greats yet. Just "stiring the pot" a little folks.. ;D .. However, IMHO, Burrell is the BEST frontcourt "prospect"(outside of berry) i have ever seen don the red & white. If he stays healthy he will be a lottery pick in a few years... IF that happens he will have EARNED his spot on the "All-Century" team.. 8) .. btw - Just how is our tradition being "overrated" son. I suggest u pick up this years SJU media guide & familarize yourself with the program : one of the top 10 winningest teams of all-time, 3 big east titles, a host of NBA players & let's not forget LEGENDARY coaches like Lapchik & Looie.. :) .. peace!
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easy randomhero423 is only 16yrs old. I'm sure he doesn't have the appreciation for the old st. john's tradition just coming out of the age of innocence nor do I expect him to.
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well we've NEVER won a championship.
Bids by school we are 12th. i mean that's pretty good but nothing amazing. notre dame is ahead of us, which i find intresting since that's their 2nd sport. our last champ apperance was 1952 for an amazingly filled tradition, if that's ur last apperance that's crazy. in the championship we are 27-29 all time. nothing impressive there either. winning the BE championship only three times did not impress me as well.
obviously it can be worse. but i don't think it should be elite-status.
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i'll agree that it's definetely not anywhere close to those of the elite schools in the country (ucla, duke, carolina, indiana, kentucky, etc) but i cant think of a school with more tradition in the tri-state area. i will agree some with you, randomhero, in that the tradition is a bit overrated.
p.s. oldred, the media guides (like your "opinions") are of course going to be slanted towards st. johns in order to hype them up. the people that put together that book will pick out any little detail to put in the book that wil make SJU look elite. media guides and yearbooks can be as much of a recruiting/good press tool/hype machine as it is a source of information.
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cant believe Is fogot Felipe and Zendon. Bad years but I gots mad respct.
I know all y'all love Marcus Hatten, but I dont think he all that when you compare him to teh all time greats. Brotha was clutch but he jack up mo shots than Kobe.
Did you notice how good we got once felipe and z left?
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cant believe Is fogot Felipe and Zendon. Bad years but I gots mad respct.
I know all y'all love Marcus Hatten, but I dont think he all that when you compare him to teh all time greats. Brotha was clutch but he jack up mo shots than Kobe.
Did you notice how good we got once felipe and z left?
Lopez & Hamilton had two of the LOWEST b-ball iq's i have EVER seen.. ::) .. btw - agree with u about Hatten choz... peace!
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cant believe Is fogot Felipe and Zendon. Bad years but I gots mad respct.
I know all y'all love Marcus Hatten, but I dont think he all that when you compare him to teh all time greats. Brotha was clutch but he jack up mo shots than Kobe.
Did you notice how good we got once felipe and z left?
Lopez & Hamilton had two of the LOWEST b-ball iq's i have EVER seen.. ::) .. peace!
Coming from a guy who never played a game after CYO level, that is comical...
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cant believe Is fogot Felipe and Zendon. Bad years but I gots mad respct.
I know all y'all love Marcus Hatten, but I dont think he all that when you compare him to teh all time greats. Brotha was clutch but he jack up mo shots than Kobe.
Did you notice how good we got once felipe and z left?
Lopez & Hamilton had two of the LOWEST b-ball iq's i have EVER seen.. ::) .. peace!
Coming from a guy who never played a game after CYO level, that is comical...
Get off my sack already "coach"(lol).. ;D .. btw - i'll take u ANYDAY on the court "chubbs".. 8) .. yawn.
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i find it hard to believe the number 1 recruit in the country had one of the lowest basketball iq's
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i find it hard to believe the number 1 recruit in the country had one of the lowest basketball iq's
So did i 32... i was SHOCKED myself.. :o .. He did have a very good senior year however after Fran finaly instilled some "discipline" in him & his game. Not to mention, Lopez & Hamilton had a chance to REDEEM themselves in the the '98 NCAA's... but CHOKED big-time against Detroit(66-64... f*ck!)... i think the two of them shot a combined 7 - 24 with 5 turnovers & Felipe BRICKED a wide-open three to win it.. :-[ .. peace!
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PG: Mark Jackson, Boo Harvey, Erick Barkley
SG: Chris Mullin, Reggie Carter, Glen Williams
SF: Billy Schaefer, Billy Goodwin, Sonny Dove
PF: Walter Berry, Mel Davis, George Johnson
C: Zawoluk, Wennington, Paultz.
AND we won several NIT's when it was the premier post-season tourney.
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PG: Mark Jackson, Boo Harvey, Erick Barkley
SG: Chris Mullin, Reggie Carter, Glen Williams
SF: Billy Schaefer, Billy Goodwin, Sonny Dove
PF: Walter Berry, Mel Davis, George Johnson
C: Zawoluk, Wennington, Paultz.
AND we won several NIT's when it was the premier post-season tourney.
Bill S over Malik?
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Bill S over Malik. He was Mullin before Mullin. He averaged (and correct me if I'm wrong) 24 a game one year.
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Bill S over Malik. He was Mullin before Mullin. He averaged (and correct me if I'm wrong) 24 a game one year.
AZ - I will give u Billy S... but NO way u can take Goodwin over Sealy & BG was one of my favorite players.. 8) .. peace!
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Bill S over Malik. He was Mullin before Mullin. He averaged (and correct me if I'm wrong) 24 a game one year.
I think PPG averages, and stats are very hard to compare when ur talking about two different generations.
Sealy was one of the top 10 players in the nation. It wasn't just about stats. There were so many times,
he was on the bench, or others were scoring more, just because he wasn't needed as much.
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i don't take stats from the 1950-70's that seriosuly. such a diff game, not much talent or height. and i mean really it's sucha long time ago.
for goodness sakes wilt chamberlain averaged 50 and 25 one year. need i say anymore?
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How many games have you watched from the 50-70's?
Lets not talk out of our asses
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you can tell though the talent/height was completely diff wen a guy is capable of averaging 50 points and 25 rebounds...
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not really
chamberlain would prob average even better numbers now with the lack of defense being played
guys actually played defense back in the 70s unlike today
and there are great players then that would be great today
pistol pete, jerry west, rick barry, elgin baylor, walt clyde frazier, bob cousy, john havilcheck, bill walton, lew alcindor
the list goes on
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don't get me wrong those are all great players. wilt's numbers would be more like 30 and 14.
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cant believe Is fogot Felipe and Zendon. Bad years but I gots mad respct.
I know all y'all love Marcus Hatten, but I dont think he all that when you compare him to teh all time greats. Brotha was clutch but he jack up mo shots than Kobe.
Did you notice how good we got once felipe and z left?
Lopez & Hamilton had two of the LOWEST b-ball iq's i have EVER seen.. ::) .. peace!
Coming from a guy who never played a game after CYO level, that is comical...
Get off my sack already "coach"(lol).. ;D .. btw - i'll take u ANYDAY on the court "chubbs".. 8) .. yawn.
I am sure you used to tear it up in intramurals @ St. Francis Prep....
The only ball you can bounce is the one in your boxers...
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oldred a st francis prep grad???
that is interesting to say the least
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Impossible task. Once you start to read into some of the teams in the 40's,50's 60's & 70's. I list 8 guys who deserve a serious look. I never saw these guys play, but when they represented the "Redmen" their teams had great records & their individual numbers were impressive. Tony Jackson, Bob McIntyre, Alan Seider, Bob Zawolak, Leroy Ellis, Dick McGuire, Jack McMahon & Harry Boykoff. Guys I have seen...... Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Malik Sealy, Sonny Dove, Mark Jackson, Reggie Carter, Joe Depre, George Johnson, Mel Davis, Billy Paultz, Billy Schaffer, Johnny Warren , David Rusell, Bill Wennington, Felipe Lopez & Marcus Hatten.
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cant believe Is fogot Felipe and Zendon. Bad years but I gots mad respct.
I know all y'all love Marcus Hatten, but I dont think he all that when you compare him to teh all time greats. Brotha was clutch but he jack up mo shots than Kobe.
Did you notice how good we got once felipe and z left?
Lopez & Hamilton had two of the LOWEST b-ball iq's i have EVER seen.. ::) .. peace!
Coming from a guy who never played a game after CYO level, that is comical...
Get off my sack already "coach"(lol).. ;D .. btw - i'll take u ANYDAY on the court "chubbs".. 8) .. yawn.
I am sure you used to tear it up in intramurals @ St. Francis Prep....
The only ball you can bounce is the one in your boxers...
:D :D :D :D hahahahahhaha
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Bill S over Malik. He was Mullin before Mullin. He averaged (and correct me if I'm wrong) 24 a game one year.
If Billy S was really C-God why wudn't he the player of the year or an all-american teamer? How come he aint have an all-star career in the league when y'all had two leagues to play in? Why aint he got hisself a gold medal? Why didnt St. John make him one of 10 legends?
Not takin anytin away from the brotha, but when y'all compare him to C-God thems is a lofty place to go. Plius y'all gotta give Malik his due. Brotha was the last great playa St. John really had. (No O to Ron Ron but he didnt leave his mark as much as Malik).
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Bill S over Malik. He was Mullin before Mullin. He averaged (and correct me if I'm wrong) 24 a game one year.
If Billy S was really C-God why wudn't he the player of the year or an all-american teamer? How come he aint have an all-star career in the league when y'all had two leagues to play in? Why aint he got hisself a gold medal? Why didnt St. John make him one of 10 legends?
Not takin anytin away from the brotha, but when y'all compare him to C-God thems is a lofty place to go. Plius y'all gotta give Malik his due. Brotha was the last great playa St. John really had. (No O to Ron Ron but he didnt leave his mark as much as Malik).
Choz. . anyone who doesn't give Malik his proper respect doesn't know ANYTHING about basketball... there is no question he is one of the 10 best players ever @ St. John's University...
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i remember looie saying years ago the four most intelligent players he had were mark jackson, chris mullin, george johnson and malik sealy.
schaeffer was an outstanding player. i'll give him his due. he was an outstanding player. he wasn't better, overall, than malik.
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i don't take stats from the 1950-70's that seriosuly. such a diff game, not much talent or height. and i mean really it's sucha long time ago.
for goodness sakes wilt chamberlain averaged 50 and 25 one year. need i say anymore?
[Back in those 70's they had a game at the Astro Dome. Lou Alcinder vs Elvin (The Big E ) Hayes,more than 45,000 fans watched these two go head to head. Last year the # 1 draft pick was a talented center from Ohio St. "Oden" if he was on Houston or UCLA back in the 70's he would have been a backup if he wanted to play center.
Alacinder/quote]
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PMG, leaving Sealy off the list was an oversight. But I know basketball.
I played against Mullin, Jackson, Billy D. , Russell, Tim Kempton etc. I learned under former SJU guard Gus Alfieri. I may have forgotten about Sealy and should have included him instead of Goodwin. My memory may be going but my BBall IQ is intact. None of you latecomers know about Billy Schaeffer because back then ONLY guys from UCLA, NC or Notre Dame got any publicity. And David Thompson
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I saw both Billy S. and Malik.. .a lot. It's an interesting question, and not a no-brainer one way.
Choz, can't say why Billy didn't get more recognition, but it certainly seemed in those years that we didn't get recognition on a lot of fronts. Contrary to the (understandable) revisionist history that happens among younger Johnnie fans, a top 20 appearance was not common under St. Louie, and we always felt that it was a fight to get any recognition at all.
If you saw him you knew that Billy was one of the best players in college. No question. So was Malik. They were very different and played in different eras and it's difficult to compare. But certainly comparing Billy in his time against Malik in his, Billy doesn't come up short.
Maybe I should say this - Malik was great. Billy was great. i loved watching them both. Maybe one was 'better' than the other... but it'd be real, real close. Both deserve their props.
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lets keep the talk of the past 100 years to basketball here