Head Coach - Patience

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Aces

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Head Coach - Patience
« on: December 02, 2016, 01:14:06 PM »
Lets be moral here and demonstrate some patience. We have an incredible staff. NO team in the country has 2 HOF players. The wisdom and experience these guys have is incredible. Lets also recognize that this isn't Mullins choice of team. He needed guys last year, he had to work with something or else we wouldn't have won a game. Next season when we have clark and simon, and a true big man, well be savvy and athletic and deep and more competent on both ends of the floor. Then you can address Mullin as a coach. This roster has limitations, the staff can only do so much. What I'm trying to say is things take time, I'm impressed by the coaching, it's going to be sensational to see next years team.


First three years of these head coaches.

Chris Mullin                     Jay Wright(Vill)                Coack K (Duke)                     Tom Izzo                       Rick Pitino (Kentucky)                     John Calipari
8-24                                 19-13                                    17-13                                  16-16                             14-14                                                10-18
?                                      15-16                                    10-17                                  17-12                              22-6                                                  17-14
?                                      18-17                                    11-17                                   22-8                               29-7                                                  20-13



Next year, he'll have a full squad. We wont have to watch Ellison and Amar. They have no part of being on the floor.

The group will be more versatile and the coaching staff has flexibility to get creative.

Patience. No reason to jump on the staff, good things take time.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 01:21:09 PM by Aces »

Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2016, 01:28:27 PM »
The more the week has passed, I'm goow with more patience, but we need to be careful about what the new guys next year will bring.

Marvin Clark Jr. avg. ~ 10 min a game in two seasons
Jusin Simon avg ~7.5 in his freshman season

Both will have a year of practice, but also a year of real game rust

Zach Brown, if 1) He shows up due to legal issues 2) is eligible academically will be big but still raw and a freshman.

We need the current roster to improve drastically for next season and hope than any 2 of the 3 above really contribute more than current key guys.   

And we'll have to see who departs at season end it that opens up roster spots.




Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2016, 02:54:37 PM »
Lets be moral here and demonstrate some patience. We have an incredible staff. NO team in the country has 2 HOF players. The wisdom and experience these guys have is incredible. Lets also recognize that this isn't Mullins choice of team. He needed guys last year, he had to work with something or else we wouldn't have won a game. Next season when we have clark and simon, and a true big man, well be savvy and athletic and deep and more competent on both ends of the floor. Then you can address Mullin as a coach. This roster has limitations, the staff can only do so much. What I'm trying to say is things take time, I'm impressed by the coaching, it's going to be sensational to see next years team.


First three years of these head coaches.

Chris Mullin                     Jay Wright(Vill)                Coack K (Duke)                     Tom Izzo                       Rick Pitino (Kentucky)                     John Calipari
8-24                                 19-13                                    17-13                                  16-16                             14-14                                                10-18
?                                      15-16                                    10-17                                  17-12                              22-6                                                  17-14
?                                      18-17                                    11-17                                   22-8                               29-7                                                  20-13



Next year, he'll have a full squad. We wont have to watch Ellison and Amar. They have no part of being on the floor.

The group will be more versatile and the coaching staff has flexibility to get creative.

Patience. No reason to jump on the staff, good things take time.

First of all, those coaches had prior coaching experience.  Outside of possibly, 2 or 3 players, on Pitino's first Kentucky team, there wasn't a whole bunch of talent.  He still ended up 14-14 and 10-8 in conference play.  UK was also on probation during Pitino's first couple seasons at Kentucky (because of Eddie Sutton).

Coach K struggled mightily during his second and third seasons at Duke.  I once heard him say, he didn't think he was gonna survive, and he knew he had to win his fourth season.  The third season was the freshmen campaign of Coach K's bonanza class of Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, David Henderson, and Jay Bilas.  K's fourth season was the year he brought in Tommy Amaker.  With the team being lead by a young crop (the sophomores), they made a heckuva jump that season from 11-17 to 24-10 and an NCAA Tourmanent invitation (they lost in the 2nd round). 

Calipari stunk it up in his first season in UMass.  But, as you can see he made strides each season.  Actually, an NIT bid in his second season.

Izzo record was mediocre his first season and slightly, above-average his second season at Michigan State, but they still made the NIT both years (and, even advanced to the second round of the NIT both of those seasons).

Jay Wright had some bumps along the way at Villanova.  Some folks was even questioning whether he'd last.  He started to turn the corner during the sophomore campaign of kids he recruited (Randy Foye, Allan Ray, Curtis Sumpter, Jason Fraser and a couple others).  They ended up making serious noise during their junior season.

I understand where you're coming from, but those particular coaches may not have been the best example.  I'm considering their first couple seasons (maybe, outside of Coach K).
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 02:59:39 PM by mjdinkins »

Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2016, 12:57:05 PM »
Not sure why we are comparing Mullin to the greatest coaches in the game. If he can be half the coach those guys are we will be fine. I honestly thought they would reel in some more higher tier prospects over the first 3 years but if ZachBrown didn't have all the baggage attached to him the cupboard would be bare next year. Having 2 HOF coaches should help allure players to come but in reality they haven't been involved in the college game for 25 years so there is a huge learning curve. Abdelmessih is a recruiter and recruiter only so the X and o's is being left to a young up and comer so this staff is about as raw as it gets. I liked the move when it happened but Mullin made a major mistake and set the program back by hiring Rixhmond. Cost the University a pretty penny as well to get what he wanted. Time for the honeymoon period to end and  Mullin to put the ego aside. We are going to get lumped up in the Big East this year

Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2016, 02:05:48 PM »
Simon [played at Arizona - were they over recruited at his position

Clark played on a top five team in Michigan State and also got hurt.
He plays physical which the team needs.
They don't have to be stars just contribute

Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2016, 05:34:21 PM »
Simon [played at Arizona - were they over recruited at his position

Clark played on a top five team in Michigan State and also got hurt.
He plays physical which the team needs.
They don't have to be stars just contribute
+1

Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2016, 12:22:19 PM »
This miniscule fan base is way, way out of patience as we've sucked for what seems like forever,  with Hollywood offering us a small reprieve.

I do agree that posts bad mouthing Chris Mullin and even calling for his head in only the very beginning of his second season are despicable and embarrassing.

TONYD3

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Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2016, 12:41:15 PM »
Norm Roberts- 3 big east wins season 1. Season 2- 5. Both teams had much less talent then this one.- old big east tougher competition.

Mahoney- 2 seasons of 5 big east wins.

Dunlap/Lavin- second season 5 wins. All freshman team. Old big east. Beat some good teams.

Mullin- 1st season 1 big east win- lost to plenty of cupcakes. No talent- new big east.
Mullin second season - 0-3 vs big east talent. 1-2 vs lesser talent. 2-1 vs cupcakes.
5 big east wins have to be minimum that is acceptable? I don't think we get there

Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2016, 12:51:53 PM »
Tony, don't even begin to call Tulane decent competition. They are terrible. St John's is 0-4 against decent teams (this year) and 3-1 against total cupcakes.

ras

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Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2016, 01:07:11 PM »
The weird thing about this BE is only DePaul and us are bad, the others are very good. Cant play ourselves so that leaves DePaul as the only team you can pencil a W in. This BE doesn't have the marque names but they are getting the job done.

nudginator59

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Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2016, 01:44:41 PM »
Old BE had a high ceiling and a low basement. It  could actually be easier to find 5 wins in the old BE.  If this teams doesn't show much improvement after this year, I think there will be some pressure/ urgency from within SJU administration about making adjustments. 
Cougar O' Malley

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Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2016, 02:05:50 PM »
Old BE had a high ceiling and a low basement. It  could actually be easier to find 5 wins in the old BE.  If this teams doesn't show much improvement after this year, I think there will be some pressure/ urgency from within SJU administration about making adjustments. 

Lots of people felt that way with Roberts and Lavin.  Why would this time be any different?

Aces

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Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2016, 03:57:09 PM »


"""Not sure why we are comparing Mullin to the greatest coaches in the game."""


I am comparing Mullin to the all time greats because even the best of the best coaches STRUGGLE during there first few years. Have patience with Mullin, instant results aren't going to be evident. Progression will have to occur until he gets the players he needs to coach with.

I'm sure he rather have Simon playing over ellison and clark playing over Amar etc. 

Give the guy a chance to work with some guys. It didn't come easy to the all time great coaches either. That's my correlation.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 03:58:55 PM by Aces »

nudginator59

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Re: Head Coach - Patience
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2016, 05:44:14 PM »
Old BE had a high ceiling and a low basement. It  could actually be easier to find 5 wins in the old BE.  If this teams doesn't show much improvement after this year, I think there will be some pressure/ urgency from within SJU administration about making adjustments. 

Lots of people felt that way with Roberts and Lavin.  Why would this time be any different?

You have a new President and AD that came here to make changes to SJU.  Mullins was a risky pick for the President. As the school is trying to cut costs, but they are spending money on he basketball program. Their already on the hook for one coach that didn't work out for Mullin. SJU let gave him the money to pay another coach who has no coaching experience. If the team has another 8ish win season there will be some grumblings.

This administration will be a lot more proactive and involved with the school.
Cougar O' Malley