6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: Ron Artesticles on January 28, 2015, 11:12:18 PM
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get it...
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I would actually fire him now. Hire anyone off the street to make a run at NCAA
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Hire someone that will.....you know.... play your best players in a must win game.
#whynot?
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did his cousin vote yes
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Rich Homie QuanMan
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The team just needs time to gel guys. Its not like they've been playing together for some time......oh wait!! THEY HAVE. Lavin usual postgame comment will be how proud he is of the team's effort and how they seem to be headed in the right direction. SICK of the BULLSH** Lavin you're a damn joke. He's better off working at the used car lots on Northern BLVD.
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I wish Lavs would have met Little Allie Boy
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Do not know to think. Not happy at all with him . If he is fired what happens ? We need an entire new team.
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Today's Post brought up Lavin's bizarre momentum killing TO's
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Would love to know the reasoning behind the 7 people who voted yes. After this season we will have not made the NCAA's four straight years and next year is looking even worse when 99% of our scoring will be gone.
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Do not know to think. Not happy at all with him . If he is fired what happens ? We need an entire new team.
So be it Tony, keep Lavin with a steller class coming in only for the team to fall on their face? Why not start over?
Lavin is a loser.
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Do not know to think. Not happy at all with him . If he is fired what happens ? We need an entire new team.
So be it Tony, keep Lavin with a steller class coming in only for the team to fall on their face? Why not start over?
Lavin is a loser.
start over with who
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Do not know to think. Not happy at all with him . If he is fired what happens ? We need an entire new team.
So be it Tony, keep Lavin with a steller class coming in only for the team to fall on their face? Why not start over?
Lavin is a loser.
start over with who
Whoever it is can't do much worse
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Do not know to think. Not happy at all with him . If he is fired what happens ? We need an entire new team.
So be it Tony, keep Lavin with a steller class coming in only for the team to fall on their face? Why not start over?
Lavin is a loser.
start over with who
I guess we'll have to give the new guy a pass for a few years, oh well.
Better then this loser
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It can get a lot worse. Pay Lavin ( I believe) 1.6 million to stay home. Are his assistants under contract? If so pay them to stay home also. Don't think either Obekpa or Jordan comes back if he is fired. No matter what anyone else says on here I don't believe we have any chance of keeping Sampson. Kid has plenty of options. Not pro Lavin just don't want to REALLY SUCK. Suck we will for at-least 3 years. You guys remember really sucking, 12th/13th place. No Big East Tournament.
If he finishes his contract and recruits this year I think its best.
No one good is coming with no players. If we are paying Lavin and staff close to 2 million to stay home, how much could we offer a new staff?
We agree that he is a shit head. I did not vote extension, but I would rather extend the shit head. Then fire him without a solid alternative.
Solid alternative- are not these pipe dream coaches- proven winner. who is doing better currently then Lavin is. I don't believe that is out there.
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It can get a lot worse. Pay Lavin ( I believe) 1.6 million to stay home. Are his assistants under contract? If so pay them to stay home also. Don't think either Obekpa or Jordan comes back if he is fired. No matter what anyone else says on here I don't believe we have any chance of keeping Sampson. Kid has plenty of options. Not pro Lavin just don't want to REALLY SUCK. Suck we will for at-least 3 years. You guys remember really sucking, 12th/13th place. No Big East Tournament.
If he finishes his contract and recruits this year I think its best.
No one good is coming with no players. If we are paying Lavin and staff close to 2 million to stay home, how much could we offer a new staff?
We agree that he is a shit head. I did not vote extension, but I would rather extend the shit head. Then fire him without a solid alternative.
Solid alternative- are not these pipe dream coaches- proven winner. who is doing better currently then Lavin is. I don't believe that is out there.
Hahahahaha It can get a lot worse?
What the differencebetween the NIT and the CBI? Do yo like being in the NIT? The NIT means absolutely nothing to me.
It's NCAA or nothing.
So to me Norm and Lavin are the same, no NCAA.
So you are wrong. We can't do alot worse then him, but we could do a lot better then him.
If no ncaa appearance again then that's 4 straight years.
Great accomplishment huh? Are you proud that?
If so then you're sad.
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It can get a lot worse. Pay Lavin ( I believe) 1.6 million to stay home. Are his assistants under contract? If so pay them to stay home also. Don't think either Obekpa or Jordan comes back if he is fired. No matter what anyone else says on here I don't believe we have any chance of keeping Sampson. Kid has plenty of options. Not pro Lavin just don't want to REALLY SUCK. Suck we will for at-least 3 years. You guys remember really sucking, 12th/13th place. No Big East Tournament.
If he finishes his contract and recruits this year I think its best.
No one good is coming with no players. If we are paying Lavin and staff close to 2 million to stay home, how much could we offer a new staff?
We agree that he is a shit head. I did not vote extension, but I would rather extend the shit head. Then fire him without a solid alternative.
Solid alternative- are not these pipe dream coaches- proven winner. who is doing better currently then Lavin is. I don't believe that is out there.
How can it be worse? This will be 4th year in a row we don't make the big boy tournament. If you're cool being with the NIT every year then sure keep Lavin. But if you are cool with NITs why didn't we just keep Norm? Lavin is a proven loser here. He is a proven underachiever going back to his days at UCLA. So why not take a chance on a young up and coming guy that could turn into a home run hire?
To me, finishing 6th in this watered down BE and being an NIT team is equal to finishing sub .500 and finishing 12th or 13th in the old contest. Its NCAA tourney or bust for me. If you don't make the tournament its a failed season even if you win the NIT. And this year the goal shouldnt have been just to make the tournament, it should have been to win a couple games in the tournament.
You are willing to accept mediocrity because you don't want to be terrible. That's fine I guess. But that also means accepting this mediocrity won't lead to anything great either
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Have to think there are attainable coaches who will come here for more money, MSG, the Big East (which is still a good conference and has TV money) and the ability to sell NY and PT to good recruits.
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Never in a million years
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You guys are slow. If he is fired in March. What players is the new coach getting? How much will be allotted for a new coach? Already spent 2 million. What players are coming back? Since every coach in the last 20 years has failed I am sure coaches will be fighting at the opportunity to coach Felix Balmor at the garden. Also since when has money not been an issue at St. Johns? Nit isnt great, Cbi is worse. Next year can be much worse. Hating Lavin is understandable. I am not as spiteful as some of you.
His contract ends next year. Fire him then.
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You guys are slow. If he is fired in March. What players is the new coach getting? How much will be allotted for a new coach? Already spent 2 million. What players are coming back? Since every coach in the last 20 years has failed I am sure coaches will be fighting at the opportunity to coach Felix Balmor at the garden. Also since when has money not been an issue at St. Johns? Nit isnt great, Cbi is worse. Next year can be much worse. Hating Lavin is understandable. I am not as spiteful as some of you.
His contract ends next year. Fire him then.
I hear what you're saying about SJU being cheap when it comes to doling out the bucks to bring in a big name coach. That will be a big issue after Lavin is canned.
However, the question needs to be asked, what has Lavin done or achieved with this team to earn the right to coach out the last year of his contract?
I think outside of some good recruits, he really hasn't produced any type of tangible results in terms of Wins, a deep roster, a team that shows chemistry and improves with each passing game and year.
That's the biggest red flag to me about Lavin. It's his inability to coach this team where it looks like they are more cohesive and better each game out. Rather it looks like every game is just an isolated incident and there's no chemistry from the previous games where the team looks like a more gelled unit.
I see no progression in this team and program under Lavin. It's been in a holding pattern for years now with no improvement.
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Have to think there are attainable coaches who will come here for more money, MSG, the Big East (which is still a good conference and has TV money) and the ability to sell NY and PT to good recruits.
Of course there are. Think for a moment about the amount of people who aren't some clueless 18 year old, but rather a 42 year old grown man. Now, think about how many job offers are thrown at New Yorkers asking them to relocate to places like Texas, North Carolina, Ohio etc, and think about the amount of people who LOL at the thought of living in a dump like Ohio. People want to work in NY. People with culture. People who expect Italian food to be Italian food. People with taste. There would be people lining up from all over if only Father Harrington, the Sith Lord wasn't running St.John's any longer. Wait, he's not.
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Sampson and Sanchez seem to be faring a lot better at the next level than most on here thought. Throw in Gift and I'm convinced that a lot of coaches not only would have gotten last years team in the tourney but actually won some games.
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Not debating any of that. I think we could get a good coach under reasonable conditions. With 4 seniors graduating and next 2 best players possibly leaving . Who would want to walk into that?
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Not debating any of that. I think we could get a good coach under reasonable conditions. With 4 seniors graduating and next 2 best players possibly leaving . Who would want to walk into that?
Very tough conditions, no doubt. The ideal candidate would be a coach who is an up and comer in the coaching ranks and wants to make a name for himself. Bobby or Danny Hurley, Toole, Masiello, many other young good coaches out there.
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Not debating any of that. I think we could get a good coach under reasonable conditions. With 4 seniors graduating and next 2 best players possibly leaving . Who would want to walk into that?
Great situation. Good money, no pressure , and you can bring in the kind of players you want to coach. It's not like your following a legend.
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The answer is yes. It's clear now. The only questions to be answered now are for how long? and for how much? It's fun to watch his teams get better and better throughout the season. That's from good coaching.
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Three 20 win seasons in 5 years here. 2 NCAA berths (hopefully). That deserves an extension.
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The answer is yes. It's clear now. The only questions to be answered now are for how long? and for how much? It's fun to watch his teams get better and better throughout the season. That's from good coaching.
Completely agreed that we have to credit lavins coaching for the consistent progress and end of season excellent play.
That said he needs to find a way to get them to gel a little earlier bc seasons like last year would be tourney seasons if he has.
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The answer is yes. It's clear now. The only questions to be answered now are for how long? and for how much? It's fun to watch his teams get better and better throughout the season. That's from good coaching.
Completely agreed that we have to credit lavins coaching for the consistent progress and end of season excellent play.
That said he needs to find a way to get them to gel a little earlier bc seasons like last year would be tourney seasons if he has.
I agree!
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yes
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No. How much more under achievement can this fanbase endure? Other than a sweet 16 run, this is an underwhelming year imo. I posted the same preseason. Other than Sampson, not much coming in next year. Year 6. Lavin has a huge budget, overpaid assistants with not much in return. I can't see how the school can continue paying. I still believe the president will be looking to make a move
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No. How much more under achievement can this fanbase endure? Other than a sweet 16 run, this is an underwhelming year imo. I posted the same preseason. Other than Sampson, not much coming in next year. Year 6. Lavin has a huge budget, overpaid assistants with not much in return. I can't see how the school can continue paying. I still believe the president will be looking to make a move
Why do you think the president will be looking to make a move? It's not the outcome we expected with this class, but this is probably an NCAA tournament team, and whether or not he put himself in certain holes (over the last 4 seasons) or not, this year, he's done a good job coaching overall.
We have two recruits coming in next year that will be asked to do a lot, and several dark horse specials on the horizon, and that's it. I think not having an extension is hurting recruiting. So, if you're in the camp that he might not return, that's something to consider.
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No. How much more under achievement can this fanbase endure? Other than a sweet 16 run, this is an underwhelming year imo. I posted the same preseason. Other than Sampson, not much coming in next year. Year 6. Lavin has a huge budget, overpaid assistants with not much in return. I can't see how the school can continue paying. I still believe the president will be looking to make a move
Why do you think the president will be looking to make a move? It's not the outcome we expected with this class, but this is probably an NCAA tournament team, and whether or not he put himself in certain holes (over the last 4 seasons) or not, this year, he's done a good job coaching overall.
We have two recruits coming in next year that will be asked to do a lot, and several dark horse specials on the horizon, and that's it. I think not having an extension is hurting recruiting. So, if you're in the camp that he might not return, that's something to consider.
I've heard the president is not too fond of Lavin and the money being dumped into the program and the type of recruits he is seeking. Story for another time.
Let's worry about next game
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This program still has not accomplished anything under Lavin. If this senior class makes 1 tournament as an 8 seed and gets dropped in the 1st round how could that be considered successful?
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This program still has not accomplished anything under Lavin. If this senior class makes 1 tournament as an 8 seed and gets dropped in the 1st round how could that be considered successful?
That didnt happen. You can fault him if thats what happens. Cant fault him if it doesnt. Hoping to see a few games at the Garden. Lets see
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Not big lavin fan but 2 tournament appearances in 5 years is a drastic improvement and at some point continuity in the staff has real value.
Let's see how things play out in the next few weeks. He won't get extended before selection Sunday
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No. How much more under achievement can this fanbase endure? Other than a sweet 16 run, this is an underwhelming year imo. I posted the same preseason. Other than Sampson, not much coming in next year. Year 6. Lavin has a huge budget, overpaid assistants with not much in
return. I can't see how the school can continue paying. I still believe the president will be looking to make a move
Why do you think the president will be looking to make a move? It's not the outcome we expected with this class, but this is probably an NCAA tournament team, and whether or not he put himself in certain holes (over the last 4 seasons) or not, this year, he's done a good job coaching overall.
We have two recruits coming in next year that will be asked to do a lot, and several dark horse specials on the horizon, and that's it. I think not having an extension is hurting recruiting. So, if you're in the camp that he might not return, that's something to consider.
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I've heard the president is not too fond of Lavin and the money being dumped into the program and the type of recruits he is seeking. Story for another time.
Let's worry about next game
You want to bait but you want to deal with it another time. Sounds about right.
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The product on the court is fun to watch. The guys and the team are getting better all the time. The chemistry is phenomenal. The program is getting better. We are in the hunt for top recruits. He and his team deserve extensions.
Anyone else here getting tired of the bald-faced stories without any evidence or attribution...even if they have a 50% chance of ending up correct?
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No. How much more under achievement can this fanbase endure? Other than a sweet 16 run, this is an underwhelming year imo. I posted the same preseason. Other than Sampson, not much coming in next year. Year 6. Lavin has a huge budget, overpaid assistants with not much in return. I can't see how the school can continue paying. I still believe the president will be looking to make a move
I'll take season's like this, thanks. This is exciting. The two most exciting seasons of my fanhood have been under Lavin. I want him to stick around.
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No. How much more under achievement can this fanbase endure? Other than a sweet 16 run, this is an underwhelming year imo. I posted the same preseason. Other than Sampson, not much coming in next year. Year 6. Lavin has a huge budget, overpaid assistants with not much in return. I can't see how the school can continue paying. I still believe the president will be looking to make a move
I'll take season's like this, thanks. This is exciting. The two most exciting seasons of my fanhood have been under Lavin. I want him to stick around.
Yes. Cherish it
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No. How much more under achievement can this fanbase endure? Other than a sweet 16 run, this is an underwhelming year imo. I posted the same preseason. Other than Sampson, not much coming in next year. Year 6. Lavin has a huge budget, overpaid assistants with not much in return. I can't see how the school can continue paying. I still believe the president will be looking to make a move
I'll take season's like this, thanks. This is exciting. The two most exciting seasons of my fanhood have been under Lavin. I want him to stick around.
Yes. Cherish it
Will do. And hopefully many more to come.
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I think it's totally fine if you don't like Lavin and don't want him to get an extension.
But I do think it would be good if he did get an extension.
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If this senior class makes 1 tournament as an 8 seed and gets dropped in the 1st round how could that be considered successful?
Because were St. John's University - that's how. We've made the Ncaa tournament one time since 2001. This year will be the second. With that recent record of futility, you best believe that just making the tournament is an unmitigated success.
If we began to dance on even a semi-regular basis, than perhaps we might dare to dream (be still my beating heart) of the unthinkable...an actual Ncaa tournament win!
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i look at it this way. The program has improved with Lavin here no doubt but has it been enough for that much money. I love hearing people talk about how he manages his short bench. Why is his bench short? Because his assistants took a year off then tried to cover by taking players who were questionable to qualify like thomas and ADR ( long term i think ADR is going to be good). But lets call a spade a spade. Im enjoying this season due to the chemistry and fun style they play but is he worth 2.5 mill? I was thinking to myself the other day watching warmups how much of a difference a full year of whitsell has made. The defense has improved 100% and rebounding with a smaller team and we dont dilly dally around the point endlessly passing it around anymore.
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No. How much more under achievement can this fanbase endure? Other than a sweet 16 run, this is an underwhelming year imo. I posted the same preseason. Other than Sampson, not much coming in next year. Year 6. Lavin has a huge budget, overpaid assistants with not much in return. I can't see how the school can continue paying. I still believe the president will be looking to make a move
I'll take season's like this, thanks. This is exciting. The two most exciting seasons of my fanhood have been under Lavin. I want him to stick around.
Where were you in 1952? :)
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The product on the court is fun to watch. The guys and the team are getting better all the time. The chemistry is phenomenal. The program is getting better. We are in the hunt for top recruits. He and his team deserve extensions.
Anyone else here getting tired of the bald-faced stories without any evidence or attribution...even if they have a 50% chance of ending up correct?
You can't be taken seriously.
You were asking for an extension last year, and again when we were 0-3 in conference. You shill for Lavin regardless of his performance.
He shouldn't be offered an extension, he's under-achieved with this group, and the future looks ominous. But why do we need to talk about it now? Can't we just enjoy this team.
And for the 4918 time, I would like to point out that being better than Norm isn't proof of success. It just means you're better than Norm Roberts.
But newsflash... there are more options in this world than Norm Roberts and Steve Lavin.
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Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.
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Game Wednesday . Extension is there for the taking. Hopefully either way their won't be a debate. I like the way the team is playing also. Lavin Just has to win. If he wins their won't be a doubt. If not send him on his way. gut check not only for Lavin, but Dom and Harrison .
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Question. Does the incoming class play into the equation? I wouldn't' ask, but it could be the third of 3 classes in a row without much to show. If it turns out good I think it's a gimmie. How long can the school wait?
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If this senior class makes 1 tournament as an 8 seed and gets dropped in the 1st round how could that be considered successful?
Because were St. John's University - that's how. We've made the Ncaa tournament one time since 2001. This year will be the second. With that recent record of futility, you best believe that just making the tournament is an unmitigated success.
If we began to dance on even a semi-regular basis, than perhaps we might dare to dream (be still my beating heart) of the unthinkable...an actual Ncaa tournament win!
Two times since 2001. And we didn't make it in 2001 because Jarvis didn't schedule enough cup cakes. That team wasn't bad. They weren't great, but they weren't bad either. Went 8-8 in conference and beat Kentucky and Michigan.
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Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.
Is the new president going to pay a legit NCAA tournament coach? I'm cool with moving on, because I don't care for Lavin's coaching style and for his lack of recruiting the last 3 seasons, but to fire him only to bring in someone who hasn't been successful as a D1 head coach is really risky.
Danny Hurley might be the next great coach in college basketball, but if he comes here, and we see that he isn't, we're back to a mid major program like we were under under the hated Norm Roberts.
Lavin has been criticized, fairly, for not developing talent, for not settling on the right players and rotations, and for not establishing a clear defensive or offensive identity. That said, if he's going to be criticized for the lack of development in Phil Greene and Dom Pointer over the last 2/3 years, then he deserves credit for their success which has been impressive to say the least.
Last year, our rotations were awful. This year, Lavin has done a good job of getting the most out his limited bench. I feel like we are prepared to face a zone much better this year than in recent years. Our help defense has gone from awfuk to tremendous this season, and Georgetown is a great example of help defense at its very best. Just ask Josh Smith.
At the end of the day, the devil you know may be the best road to take.
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Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.
Is the new president going to pay a legit NCAA tournament coach? I'm cool with moving on, because I don't care for Lavin's coaching style and for his lack of recruiting the last 3 seasons, but to fire him only to bring in someone who hasn't been successful as a D1 head coach is really risky.
Danny Hurley might be the next great coach in college basketball, but if he comes here, and we see that he isn't, we're back to a mid major program like we were under under the hated Norm Roberts.
Lavin has been criticized, fairly, for not developing talent, for not settling on the right players and rotations, and for not establishing a clear defensive or offensive identity. That said, if he's going to be criticized for the lack of development in Phil Greene and Dom Pointer over the last 2/3 years, then he deserves credit for their success which has been impressive to say the least.
Last year, our rotations were awful. This year, Lavin has done a good job of getting the most out his limited bench. I feel like we are prepared to face a zone much better this year than in recent years. Our help defense has gone from awfuk to tremendous this season, and Georgetown is a great example of help defense at its very best. Just ask Josh Smith.
At the end of the day, the devil you know may be the best road to take.
I been saying all season, Lavin needs to take care of two things this season.
Make the NCAA Tournament (which all they need is 1 more win.), and part 2 is recruits for the future.
Sampson already committed. I'd be good with just one 5 star the rest of the way (Diallo), if not him then two 4 stars, that happens then yes give him an extension. Just want to make him earn it.
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Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.
Is the new president going to pay a legit NCAA tournament coach? I'm cool with moving on, because I don't care for Lavin's coaching style and for his lack of recruiting the last 3 seasons, but to fire him only to bring in someone who hasn't been successful as a D1 head coach is really risky.
Danny Hurley might be the next great coach in college basketball, but if he comes here, and we see that he isn't, we're back to a mid major program like we were under under the hated Norm Roberts.
Lavin has been criticized, fairly, for not developing talent, for not settling on the right players and rotations, and for not establishing a clear defensive or offensive identity. That said, if he's going to be criticized for the lack of development in Phil Greene and Dom Pointer over the last 2/3 years, then he deserves credit for their success which has been impressive to say the least.
Last year, our rotations were awful. This year, Lavin has done a good job of getting the most out his limited bench. I feel like we are prepared to face a zone much better this year than in recent years. Our help defense has gone from awfuk to tremendous this season, and Georgetown is a great example of help defense at its very best. Just ask Josh Smith.
At the end of the day, the devil you know may be the best road to take.
Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
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Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.
Is the new president going to pay a legit NCAA tournament coach? I'm cool with moving on, because I don't care for Lavin's coaching style and for his lack of recruiting the last 3 seasons, but to fire him only to bring in someone who hasn't been successful as a D1 head coach is really risky.
Danny Hurley might be the next great coach in college basketball, but if he comes here, and we see that he isn't, we're back to a mid major program like we were under under the hated Norm Roberts.
Lavin has been criticized, fairly, for not developing talent, for not settling on the right players and rotations, and for not establishing a clear defensive or offensive identity. That said, if he's going to be criticized for the lack of development in Phil Greene and Dom Pointer over the last 2/3 years, then he deserves credit for their success which has been impressive to say the least.
Last year, our rotations were awful. This year, Lavin has done a good job of getting the most out his limited bench. I feel like we are prepared to face a zone much better this year than in recent years. Our help defense has gone from awfuk to tremendous this season, and Georgetown is a great example of help defense at its very best. Just ask Josh Smith.
At the end of the day, the devil you know may be the best road to take.
Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
I guess it depends on your definition of mid major.
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Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.
Is the new president going to pay a legit NCAA tournament coach? I'm cool with moving on, because I don't care for Lavin's coaching style and for his lack of recruiting the last 3 seasons, but to fire him only to bring in someone who hasn't been successful as a D1 head coach is really risky.
Danny Hurley might be the next great coach in college basketball, but if he comes here, and we see that he isn't, we're back to a mid major program like we were under under the hated Norm Roberts.
Lavin has been criticized, fairly, for not developing talent, for not settling on the right players and rotations, and for not establishing a clear defensive or offensive identity. That said, if he's going to be criticized for the lack of development in Phil Greene and Dom Pointer over the last 2/3 years, then he deserves credit for their success which has been impressive to say the least.
Last year, our rotations were awful. This year, Lavin has done a good job of getting the most out his limited bench. I feel like we are prepared to face a zone much better this year than in recent years. Our help defense has gone from awfuk to tremendous this season, and Georgetown is a great example of help defense at its very best. Just ask Josh Smith.
At the end of the day, the devil you know may be the best road to take.
Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
I guess it depends on your definition of mid major.
The President came here to balance the budget and the program costs a lot of money. Lavin has improved this program, but is his salary worth it? As of right now we are almost exactly where we were 5 years ago, in terms of on the verge of making the tournament, senior squad and a rebuilding project for next year.
The potential for better talent is there but not defiant, and overall lasts year roster has a lot of ifs, not to mention the inelgiable issues.
-I give Lavin credit for this team not going into the abyss and I defiantly thought he was gone earlier in the year. He has made his extension decision a lot tougher.
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Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
A statement like this make zero sense.
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Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
A statement like this make zero sense.
Please enlighten me how this program is anything more than a glorified mid major at this point. There's mid major programs that have been far more successful than us before the Lavin era and during the Lavin era
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Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
A statement like this make zero sense.
Please enlighten me how this program is anything more than a glorified mid major at this point. There's mid major programs that have been far more successful than us before the Lavin era and during the Lavin era
A mid-major team would never be considered a tournament "lock" with 9 losses, 7 in conference and 5th place in their own conference. Are you enlightened?
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If this senior class makes 1 tournament as an 8 seed and gets dropped in the 1st round how could that be considered successful?
Because were St. John's University - that's how. We've made the Ncaa tournament one time since 2001. This year will be the second. With that recent record of futility, you best believe that just making the tournament is an unmitigated success.
If we began to dance on even a semi-regular basis, than perhaps we might dare to dream (be still my beating heart) of the unthinkable...an actual Ncaa tournament win!
Two times since 2001. And we didn't make it in 2001 because Jarvis didn't schedule enough cup cakes. That team wasn't bad. They weren't great, but they weren't bad either. Went 8-8 in conference and beat Kentucky and Michigan.
Made it in 2001/02; 2010/2011 and 2014/15. Did I miss one?
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Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.
Is the new president going to pay a legit NCAA tournament coach? I'm cool with moving on, because I don't care for Lavin's coaching style and for his lack of recruiting the last 3 seasons, but to fire him only to bring in someone who hasn't been successful as a D1 head coach is really risky.
Danny Hurley might be the next great coach in college basketball, but if he comes here, and we see that he isn't, we're back to a mid major program like we were under under the hated Norm Roberts.
Lavin has been criticized, fairly, for not developing talent, for not settling on the right players and rotations, and for not establishing a clear defensive or offensive identity. That said, if he's going to be criticized for the lack of development in Phil Greene and Dom Pointer over the last 2/3 years, then he deserves credit for their success which has been impressive to say the least.
Last year, our rotations were awful. This year, Lavin has done a good job of getting the most out his limited bench. I feel like we are prepared to face a zone much better this year than in recent years. Our help defense has gone from awfuk to tremendous this season, and Georgetown is a great example of help defense at its very best. Just ask Josh Smith.
At the end of the day, the devil you know may be the best road to take.
I been saying all season, Lavin needs to take care of two things this season.
Make the NCAA Tournament (which all they need is 1 more win.), and part 2 is recruits for the future.
Sampson already committed. I'd be good with just one 5 star the rest of the way (Diallo), if not him then two 4 stars, that happens then yes give him an extension. Just want to make him earn it.
I don't think he's signing anymore recruits without an extension. Kids think he's a sitting duck. Nothing new at St.John's. Contract will have to come before his extension.
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Desco, please compare Coach Lavin's first five years at St. John's to Coach K's first five year at Duke. Then you can think about the following:
Is the program getting better? Is the product getting better and fun to watch? Are the players getting better?
Are we in the hunt for elite recruiting prospects? Have we expanded our recruiting nationally and internationally? Is the glass one quarter empty or three quarters full? Have we lost players (too soon) to the NBA?
What is it you really want and is it reasonable? Are our facilities really comparable to Kentucky, Duke , Notre Dame and the government supported institutions (Fla., NC, NC State, Ohio State, Mich., Michigan State, Ariz. etc.)?
Do some people just like to whine and complain or troll and trouble make?
Is the program perfect? No. Do you expect it to be perfect? Is Coach Lavin perfect? No (I hate the overuse of timeouts after made baskets for example....and sometimes the p.r. mumble jumble.)
Has Coach Lavin built a professional team of assistants? Do you come close to meeting the same standards you expect from Coach Lavin?
Should we believe you or our own eyes?
If you are too busy enjoying the season (which I certainly am), you can simply skip this discussion and save it for when we lose (which will will certainly do at some point) and will make whining and complaining more timely.
Is St. John's basketball back on the map?
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Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
A statement like this make zero sense.
I agree. Our conference has the second best RPI in the country. We don't play in a mid major conference, Big East is a still a major conference in college basketball. Thats the first time I have ever heard anyone refer to us as a mid major, couldn't disagree with that more. Also I think Lavin should be back, no way after only our second NCAA berth in years do they just can him. Extend him so he isn't a lame duck for recruiting.
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Find me a mid major conference who has ever gotten half or more than half its members into the ncaas like the big east will this year...the big east is a major conference still. Period.
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Find me a mid major conference who has ever gotten half or more than half its members into the ncaas like the big east will this year...the big east is a major conference still. Period.
How many teams did the A-10 get in last year? Don't think it was half but pretty close?
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Find me a mid major conference who has ever gotten half or more than half its members into the ncaas like the big east will this year...the big east is a major conference still. Period.
How many teams did the A-10 get in last year? Don't think it was half but pretty close?
A10 got 6 in
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Find me a mid major conference who has ever gotten half or more than half its members into the ncaas like the big east will this year...the big east is a major conference still. Period.
How many teams did the A-10 get in last year? Don't think it was half but pretty close?
A10 got 6 in
So 43% of their conference.
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He deserves an extensions. Program has slowly come around. If not for losses to NBA his tenure would have been significantly better and few of us would be complaining.
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Take a look at the big picture
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I dont post often, but the A10 in 2014 didn't have a team seeded higher than 5, and the 2015 BigEast is in line to have a team receive either a 1 or a 2 . Just food for thought
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IMO. Have to wait till the season ends and who we will have next year, before making a final decision. I don't think Lovett qualifies. Next year is so Questionable. Have to wait to see how it pans out.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
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Lavin is not on any hot seat. Like him or not he is coming back.
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Desco, please compare Coach Lavin's first five years at St. John's to Coach K's first five year at Duke. Then you can think about the following:
I'll respond to the rest at a later date. But for those of you who are curious, coach K had won NCAA tournament games in years 4 and 5... and.. (wait for it)... WENT TO THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP IN YEAR SIX!!
The comparison ends right there. We will be rebuilding next year. Because despite all our hoping and wishing, the odds are CO and RJ are not back, and Diallo is not coming here. Is it a lock? No. But that is the most likely scenario.
So lets focus on the Marquette game, and having a fun couple of weeks with these seniors. Because the future is not bright, and that rests with Steve Lavin.
Also, I don't know who you're speaking for when you say "we". Every time we've done a poll, whether it be last season or this season, no less than 48% of SJU fans have wanted SL fired and/or not extended.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.
Not comparable. They had talent returning. Wells, Layman, Pack etc And they had Trimble inked.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.
Not comparable. They had talent returning. Wells, Layman, Pack etc And they had Trimble inked.
I know it's a big if, but if CO and Sheed return then you can say the same with SJU.
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
You should open up shop as a fortune teller. Half truths and leading statements. :)
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.
Not comparable. They had talent returning. Wells, Layman, Pack etc And they had Trimble inked.
I know it's a big if, but if CO and Sheed return then you can say the same with SJU.
I agree 75. Things look very different if CO and Sheed are coming back.
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?
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I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?
Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either. To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish. If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back. I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.
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I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
Rewarding mediocrity. And I'm being generous in that statement
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
The last point is one everyone seems to forget. I believe it is a positive that our new president will look at favorably. In addition to the 5 seniors on this year's team, Gift was an excellent student who not only graduated but got a graduate degree and was a member of the University's President's Society--a first for a basketball player. Also, Sanchez and Hooper gradated last year.
Furthermore attendance is up significantly (the average of Norm's last 3 years was about 5800 while under Lavin we are about 7700--over a 30% increase)
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?
Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either. To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish. If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back. I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.
He had cancer yes. But he also proclaimed himself the teams GM, traveling around the world on so called recruiting trips. Team should be stacked, not in rebuilding mode yet again.
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I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
Rewarding mediocrity. And I'm being generous in that statement
If SJU was drawing 12k+ at the Garden it would mean one of two things. SJU was good (far from mediocrity) or SJU scheduled big time teams that traveled well.
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I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
Rewarding mediocrity. And I'm being generous in that statement
If SJU was drawing 12k+ at the Garden it would mean one of two things. SJU was good (far from mediocrity) or SJU scheduled big time teams that traveled well.
We have to play Duke 25 times a year to average 12k per game
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I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
Rewarding mediocrity. And I'm being generous in that statement
Baldi, did you expect us to be in the NCAA's his third year? When the team was most Sophs.
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I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
Rewarding mediocrity. And I'm being generous in that statement
Baldi, did you expect us to be in the NCAA's his third year? When the team was most Sophs.
Yes. Top recruiting class and that sophomore jump
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
The last point is one everyone seems to forget. I believe it is a positive that our new president will look at favorably. In addition to the 5 seniors on this year's team, Gift was an excellent student who not only graduated but got a graduate degree and was a member of the University's President's Society--a first for a basketball player. Also, Sanchez and Hooper gradated last year.
Furthermore attendance is up significantly (the average of Norm's last 3 years was about 5800 while under Lavin we are about 7700--over a 30% increase)
While I think he deserves to be back at this point, I also agree comparing him to Norm is counterproductive. That is not the standard we can accept under any circumstances.
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I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
Rewarding mediocrity. And I'm being generous in that statement
Baldi, did you expect us to be in the NCAA's his third year? When the team was most Sophs.
Yes. Top recruiting class and that sophomore jump
That is where I disagree completely, I never expected that jump, especially without an experienced point guard. Different expectations is what makes the world go around.
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I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
Rewarding mediocrity. And I'm being generous in that statement
Baldi, did you expect us to be in the NCAA's his third year? When the team was most Sophs.
Yes. Top recruiting class and that sophomore jump
That is where I disagree completely, I never expected that jump, especially without an experienced point guard. Different expectations is what makes the world go around.
You didn't have high expectations when he brought in that top 5 class? Seems like he is collecting that ridiculous paycheck on just that. With minimal results.
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I ha
I do not think he deserves a raise but feel he should be extended. I would load the contract with incentives even offering him some of the gate if SJU draws 12k+ fans to the Garden.
Rewarding mediocrity. And I'm being generous in that statement
Baldi, did you expect us to be in the NCAA's his third year? When the team was most Sophs.
Yes. Top recruiting class and that sophomore jump
That is where I disagree completely, I never expected that jump, especially without an experienced point guard. Different expectations is what makes the world go around.
You didn't have high expectations when he brought in that top 5 class? Seems like he is collecting that ridiculous paycheck on just that. With minimal results.
I had expectations, not as grand as yours. Last year was a washout, agreed, prior year not a all. Playing in old BE with sophs to me was going to be a learning experience.
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Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
A statement like this make zero sense.
Please enlighten me how this program is anything more than a glorified mid major at this point. There's mid major programs that have been far more successful than us before the Lavin era and during the Lavin era
Its more than wins/loses and NCAA appearances. Is the Cleveland Browns not a Pro Football team? Its about revenue. SJU isn't a mid major because the conference isn't a mid major. They have national exposure with a television contract that pays the school millions. How many mid major programs/conferences have that type of leverage to warrant that type of contract? Fox could have used their money to sign the MAAC but choose a "watered down" Big East? The Big East has 6 schools in the top 50 RPI rankings, SJU being one of them. How many MAAC schools are in the top 50? That's why top programs don't want to schedule mid majors. We can call up any school in the top 25 and they would put us on their schedule because if they win, its a good win, if they lose its not a bad lost. Fox wants to broadcast SJU vs Duke, GT vs SJU. Not Monmouth vs Canisius, you may be able to find them on a old analog TV using a hanger as an antenna with some tin foil wrapped around it at 4am, and that's if its even broadcasted. Recruits want to play in MSG, they want to play on national TV, they want to play against top programs. There is nothing glorified about that.
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Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck? That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any). Objection to him should be based on results. I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets. Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court. If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?
The bigger question. When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?
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Are we really anything more than a glorified mid major at this point anyway?
A statement like this make zero sense.
Please enlighten me how this program is anything more than a glorified mid major at this point. There's mid major programs that have been far more successful than us before the Lavin era and during the Lavin era
Its more than wins/loses and NCAA appearances. Is the Cleveland Browns not a Pro Football team? Its about revenue. SJU isn't a mid major because the conference isn't a mid major. They have national exposure with a television contract that pays the school millions. How many mid major programs/conferences have that type of leverage to warrant that type of contract? Fox could have used their money to sign the MAAC but choose a "watered down" Big East? The Big East has 6 schools in the top 50 RPI rankings, SJU being one of them. How many MAAC schools are in the top 50? That's why top programs don't want to schedule mid majors. We can call up any school in the top 25 and they would put us on their schedule because if they win, its a good win, if they lose its not a bad lost. Fox wants to broadcast SJU vs Duke, GT vs SJU. Not Monmouth vs Canisius, you may be able to find them on a old analog TV using a hanger as an antenna with some tin foil wrapped around it at 4am, and that's if its even broadcasted. Recruits want to play in MSG, they want to play on national TV, they want to play against top programs. There is nothing glorified about that.
By the way, our game versus G'town on Saturday was the ONLY Big East game, this season, that CBS televised nationally.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.
Not comparable. They had talent returning. Wells, Layman, Pack etc And they had Trimble inked.
If Sheed was as good as Trimble is this freshman year, do you think we have danced last year. I suppose he was coached up by Turgeon. When you are rebuilding it takes some luck and skill of course. Remember that 5 UMD players transferred out last year, do you think they were all stiffs. I live down here and nobody was happy with him. Prior to the Wisconsin game my friends didn't trust him at all, now they are warming up, but worry if Trimble declares will they go back to last years performance.
Few fans are rarely happy with their coach, everyone is smarter.
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Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck? That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any). Objection to him should be based on results. I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets. Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court. If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?
Exactly! That is how I convey that particular argument, as well.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.
Not comparable. They had talent returning. Wells, Layman, Pack etc And they had Trimble inked.
If Sheed was as good as Trimble is this freshman year, do you think we have danced last year. I suppose he was coached up by Turgeon. When you are rebuilding it takes some luck and skill of course. Remember that 5 UMD players transferred out last year, do you think they were all stiffs. I live down here and nobody was happy with him. Prior to the Wisconsin game my friends didn't trust him at all, now they are warming up, but worry if Trimble declares will they go back to last years performance.
Few fans are rarely happy with their coach, everyone is smarter.
Trimble came in college ready. Really steady, quiet, humble kid. Also he's an old freshman too. That helps.
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Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck? That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any). Objection to him should be based on results. I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets. Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court. If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?
The bigger question. When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?
This is a great post.
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Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck? That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any). Objection to him should be based on results. I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets. Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court. If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?
The bigger question. When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?
I'm with you on most of this.
I just hope the school doesn't go back to paying someone 300k per year.
The only argument I think Lavin's salary is relevant to is when we discuss him vs. Norm. Because Norm didn't get the resources (salaries for his staff, travel budget etc) that Lavin has gotten.
Other than that, how much Lavin's salary is doesn't matter. Unless the school has to buy him out, which obviously becomes an issue.
But in terms of criticizing the coach's performance, I agree. His salary shouldn't be a major factor.
And simplyred, i don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Lavin will be retained. But if he is, I will continue to express my displeasure. But much less frequently if he's extended long term.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.
Not comparable. They had talent returning. Wells, Layman, Pack etc And they had Trimble inked.
If Sheed was as good as Trimble is this freshman year, do you think we have danced last year. I suppose he was coached up by Turgeon. When you are rebuilding it takes some luck and skill of course. Remember that 5 UMD players transferred out last year, do you think they were all stiffs. I live down here and nobody was happy with him. Prior to the Wisconsin game my friends didn't trust him at all, now they are warming up, but worry if Trimble declares will they go back to last years performance.
Few fans are rarely happy with their coach, everyone is smarter.
Trimble came in college ready. Really steady, quiet, humble kid. Also he's an old freshman too. That helps.
I agree, really mature kid, makes a difference especially at the point guard position.
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?
Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either. To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish. If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back. I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.
He had cancer yes. But he also proclaimed himself the teams GM, traveling around the world on so called recruiting trips. Team should be stacked, not in rebuilding mode yet again.
when has SJU ever been STACKED..?
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Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck? That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any). Objection to him should be based on results. I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets. Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court. If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?
The bigger question. When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?
I'm with you on most of this.
I just hope the school doesn't go back to paying someone 300k per year.
The only argument I think Lavin's salary is relevant to is when we discuss him vs. Norm. Because Norm didn't get the resources (salaries for his staff, travel budget etc) that Lavin has gotten.
Other than that, how much Lavin's salary is doesn't matter. Unless the school has to buy him out, which obviously becomes an issue.
But in terms of criticizing the coach's performance, I agree. His salary shouldn't be a major factor.
And simplyred, i don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Lavin will be retained. But if he is, I will continue to express my displeasure. But much less frequently if he's extended long term.
Hey Desco, like the guys who have been guaranteeing that he is gone (without any basis), I take the opposite position that he is guaranteed to be extended. Just as baseless (other than the teams success this year). I said weeks ago that we would make the dance and Lavin will be extended. I certainly have no reason to back off now.
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?
Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either. To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish. If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back. I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.
He had cancer yes. But he also proclaimed himself the teams GM, traveling around the world on so called recruiting trips. Team should be stacked, not in rebuilding mode yet again.
when has SJU ever been STACKED..?
When has SJU ever had a GM?
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Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck? That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any). Objection to him should be based on results. I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets. Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court. If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?
The bigger question. When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?
I'm with you on most of this.
I just hope the school doesn't go back to paying someone 300k per year.
The only argument I think Lavin's salary is relevant to is when we discuss him vs. Norm. Because Norm didn't get the resources (salaries for his staff, travel budget etc) that Lavin has gotten.
Other than that, how much Lavin's salary is doesn't matter. Unless the school has to buy him out, which obviously becomes an issue.
But in terms of criticizing the coach's performance, I agree. His salary shouldn't be a major factor.
And simplyred, i don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Lavin will be retained. But if he is, I will continue to express my displeasure. But much less frequently if he's extended long term.
Hey Desco, like the guys who have been guaranteeing that he is gone (without any basis), I take the opposite position that he is guaranteed to be extended. Just as baseless (other than the teams success this year). I said weeks ago that we would make the dance and Lavin will be extended. I certainly have no reason to back off now.
Fair enough SR.
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The funny part is that if everyone hated Lavin, Baldi would be saying he is a god and that we don't deserve him. :)
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Baldi is a God and we don't deserve him.
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Baldi is a God and we don't deserve him.
Took you awhile..
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The funny part is that if everyone hated Lavin, Baldi would be saying he is a god and that we don't deserve him. :)
Fwiw, I thought Lavin was a great hire at the time
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I don't know some of you can be so impressed by Harrison, Pointer, and Phil and give the coach who brought them here and developed them any praise. This is a good team that is well coached. The team has plenty of talent. His first recruiting class was excellent. The next 2 were very good. Last years is incomplete. If Delerosa is good the class is good.
We were better then Georgetown his first year and better then them last year. I think we are better this year. Next years team of:
PG: Jordan
SG Sampson
SF: not sure-
PF Am ar
C Obekpa
Isn't terrible. Jordan will be one of the top players coming back. No matter what some of you say I cant believe he or Obekpa leave. If they do that would hurt the program but not the coaches fault. The guy has brought plenty of talent to Union Turnpike. Not as much as some. Easier to sell Georgetown then Jamaica Estates.
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But how does he dress?
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But how does he dress?
In the dark
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I don't know some of you can be so impressed by Harrison, Pointer, and Phil and give the coach who brought them here and developed them any praise. This is a good team that is well coached. The team has plenty of talent. His first recruiting class was excellent. The next 2 were very good. Last years is incomplete. If Delerosa is good the class is good.
We were better then Georgetown his first year and better then them last year. I think we are better this year. Next years team of:
PG: Jordan
SG Sampson
SF: not sure-
PF Am ar
C Obekpa
Isn't terrible. Jordan will be one of the top players coming back. No matter what some of you say I cant believe he or Obekpa leave. If they do that would hurt the program but not the coaches fault. The guy has brought plenty of talent to Union Turnpike. Not as much as some. Easier to sell Georgetown then Jamaica Estates.
YOU can't believe CO or RJ won't come back. But everyone else knows that's a possibility.
And yes, to some degree it is his fault if they don't return. He recruited two players who have been looking to leave since before they even got here.
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It's definitely because of how he dresses.
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Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history. And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.
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Desco, please compare Coach Lavin's first five years at St. John's to Coach K's first five year at Duke. Then you can think about the following:
Is the program getting better? Is the product getting better and fun to watch? Are the players getting better?
Are we in the hunt for elite recruiting prospects? Have we expanded our recruiting nationally and internationally? Is the glass one quarter empty or three quarters full? Have we lost players (too soon) to the NBA?
What is it you really want and is it reasonable? Are our facilities really comparable to Kentucky, Duke , Notre Dame and the government supported institutions (Fla., NC, NC State, Ohio State, Mich., Michigan State, Ariz. etc.)?
Do some people just like to whine and complain or troll and trouble make?
Is the program perfect? No. Do you expect it to be perfect? Is Coach Lavin perfect? No (I hate the overuse of timeouts after made baskets for example....and sometimes the p.r. mumble jumble.)
Has Coach Lavin built a professional team of assistants? Do you come close to meeting the same standards you expect from Coach Lavin?
Should we believe you or our own eyes?
If you are too busy enjoying the season (which I certainly am), you can simply skip this discussion and save it for when we lose (which will will certainly do at some point) and will make whining and complaining more timely.
Is St. John's basketball back on the map?
What map are you asking about? The national map? Not yet. We're not ranked. We can be for this season at least, but in year 5, to be in a position where we have no idea who will be in the team next season is troubling. What would we be buying into next year?
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?
Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either. To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish. If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back. I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.
He had cancer yes. But he also proclaimed himself the teams GM, traveling around the world on so called recruiting trips. Team should be stacked, not in rebuilding mode yet again.
when has SJU ever been STACKED..?
1985.
Lavin's boasted so often about his #2 ranked recruiting class that it's salt on a wound whenener he brings it up to describe accomplishments at St.John's. In that regard, he's no different than Brian Mahoney, who's greatest achievement at St.John's was comvincing Felipe Lopez and Zendon Hamilton to come here.
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I don't know some of you can be so impressed by Harrison, Pointer, and Phil and give the coach who brought them here and developed them any praise. This is a good team that is well coached. The team has plenty of talent. His first recruiting class was excellent. The next 2 were very good. Last years is incomplete. If Delerosa is good the class is good.
We were better then Georgetown his first year and better then them last year. I think we are better this year. Next years team of:
PG: Jordan
SG Sampson
SF: not sure-
PF Am ar
C Obekpa
Isn't terrible. Jordan will be one of the top players coming back. No matter what some of you say I cant believe he or Obekpa leave. If they do that would hurt the program but not the coaches fault. The guy has brought plenty of talent to Union Turnpike. Not as much as some. Easier to sell Georgetown then Jamaica Estates.
YOU can't believe CO or RJ won't come back. But everyone else knows that's a possibility.
And yes, to some degree it is his fault if they don't return. He recruited two players who have been looking to leave since before they even got here.
I believe it is possible. I don't be believe it is certain. You have been stating it is certain ALL YEAR.
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I don't know some of you can be so impressed by Harrison, Pointer, and Phil and give the coach who brought them here and developed them any praise. This is a good team that is well coached. The team has plenty of talent. His first recruiting class was excellent. The next 2 were very good. Last years is incomplete. If Delerosa is good the class is good.
We were better then Georgetown his first year and better then them last year. I think we are better this year. Next years team of:
PG: Jordan
SG Sampson
SF: not sure-
PF Am ar
C Obekpa
Isn't terrible. Jordan will be one of the top players coming back. No matter what some of you say I cant believe he or Obekpa leave. If they do that would hurt the program but not the coaches fault. The guy has brought plenty of talent to Union Turnpike. Not as much as some. Easier to sell Georgetown then Jamaica Estates.
YOU can't believe CO or RJ won't come back. But everyone else knows that's a possibility.
And yes, to some degree it is his fault if they don't return. He recruited two players who have been looking to leave since before they even got here.
I believe it is possible. I don't be believe it is certain. You have been stating it is certain ALL YEAR.
That is absolutely not true. I say it's likely, and we need to be prepared for it, because it was foreseeable.
But I have never said there is no chance that either returns.
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He recruited two players who have been looking to leave since before they even got here.
That's almost every kid in college.
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Jay Wright made the NIT his first 3 years at Nova. Imagine if they fired him after that.
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Jay Wright made the NIT his first 3 years at Nova. Imagine if they fired him after that.
Many wanted him fired.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
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Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history. And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.
Really? I don't like Lavin, so that means I could only be satisfied by the winning-est coach ever?
He has moved the program forward. We are better than we were under Norm. The perception of the program and it's visibility has improved. He made a tournament in 2010 and it looks like he might again this season.
All of these things are true.
But I truthfully don't know if that is good enough. I also look at the state of the program and wonder if the brief success of two 1st round losses, is worth struggling for the next 2+ years.
Because I don't think we get Diallo, and I think we lose at least one of Sheed or Chris, and possibly both. That will leave us rebuilding when we should be peaking.
Players leave early. Thats part of the game now. As a coach he has to manage that better. And one way to manage that is to build depth in your program.
His starters have been quite good, but his role players and bench players have never been of the quality that can step up and become starters. From Marco and GG to Hooper, Felix, Jones, JDR, and so on.
With the exception of last season, I don't think I've ever felt that we had a full roster. This year we are obviously thin in the frontcourt with two inelidgible big men. When will we have a normal team with 2 at every position?
So, in this day of players constantly moving around you need to either develop your 2nd team players, or recruit guys who in a year or two can start and take the reigns. He's failed to do that.
It's possible that Amir could be his first player capable of doing that. It's "possible" that Adonis could start down the road, but in his case we're talking 2+ years from now, and in reality he might have to start next season.
The good don't out weigh the bad with Lavin.
And, roll your eyes all you like, but his personality, habits, and other intangibles, from what I can tell, do not impress me. He's not someone I would hire.
That has manifested itself not in how he has coached, but how he has handled discipline, how he has managed his roster and scholarships, and how he has assembled a staff.
Darrick Martin had never coached before. He had worked in the front office. Rico Hines had never coached before. He was a trainer.
And Tony Chiles is a recruiter.
Why is 4/5s of our staff not known for actually coaching the game of basketball? How do you not let Dunlap return?
Why are we constantly taking chances on the most highly questionable recruits? Michael Chandler, Artis etc.
There is a lot not to like here. You can choose to ignore it because we're going to make the tournament and lose in the first round, but to me it is not kosher.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Bad argument. we wouldn't have made the tournament with a win over PC in rd 1 of the BET last year. PC had a similar resume and the committee said they weren't in until they won the BET and they still got an 11 seed
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
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Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.
The recruits can verbal. Then if the school doesn't give Lavin and extension in march then decommitt. Atleast then the school would see that Lavin has top recruits for our immediate future.
Is the new president going to pay a legit NCAA tournament coach? I'm cool with moving on, because I don't care for Lavin's coaching style and for his lack of recruiting the last 3 seasons, but to fire him only to bring in someone who hasn't been successful as a D1 head coach is really risky.
Danny Hurley might be the next great coach in college basketball, but if he comes here, and we see that he isn't, we're back to a mid major program like we were under under the hated Norm Roberts.
Lavin has been criticized, fairly, for not developing talent, for not settling on the right players and rotations, and for not establishing a clear defensive or offensive identity. That said, if he's going to be criticized for the lack of development in Phil Greene and Dom Pointer over the last 2/3 years, then he deserves credit for their success which has been impressive to say the least.
Last year, our rotations were awful. This year, Lavin has done a good job of getting the most out his limited bench. I feel like we are prepared to face a zone much better this year than in recent years. Our help defense has gone from awfuk to tremendous this season, and Georgetown is a great example of help defense at its very best. Just ask Josh Smith.
At the end of the day, the devil you know may be the best road to take.
I been saying all season, Lavin needs to take care of two things this season.
Make the NCAA Tournament (which all they need is 1 more win.), and part 2 is recruits for the future.
Sampson already committed. I'd be good with just one 5 star the rest of the way (Diallo), if not him then two 4 stars, that happens then yes give him an extension. Just want to make him earn it.
I don't think he's signing anymore recruits without an extension. Kids think he's a sitting duck. Nothing new at St.John's. Contract will have to come before his extension.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Can he still recruit at an elite level? Because the last two seasons make me think not.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Assuming Jordan leaves the reset button looks to be being pushed next year anyway. That said, I don't know that SJU can do better than Lavin or that it even matters. I think Saint John's is pretty much France: once a powerful force reduced to memories of grandeur. Every once in a while they get to kick the shit out of Mali or Algeria. But it's pretty much over.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Can he still recruit at an elite level? Because the last two seasons make me think not.
Absolutely.
2013- Rysheed Jordan, Orlando Sanchez
2014- Adonis Delarosa, Joey Delarosa, Amar Alibegovic, Keith Thomas, Myles Stewart, Jay Henderson
2014 they swung for the fences on a few guys and missed. With the roster so loaded with upperclassman they could take that risk but they should have taken a more practical approach. Example a guy like Ben Bentil would have helped this team but they didn't go after him. All in all though I like Amar and Adonis. If Keith Thomas was on this team they would have really had a good rotation down low.
As for 2015 Brandon Sampson is as good of a recruit that has ever come here. They should have had Briscoe but they can still get Diallo. That's incredible. Doughty is a tough kid who is cut from the same cloth as DJ Kennedy. Fans will like him.
I do think St. John's needs to do a better job of having some plan B kids. They're after some big fish and they've hooked more than they've lost but need to be on some 3-star guys too.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Assuming Jordan leaves the reset button looks to be being pushed next year anyway. That said, I don't know that SJU can do better than Lavin or that it even matters. I think Saint John's is pretty much France: once a powerful force reduced to memories of grandeur. Every once in a while they get to kick the shit out of Mali or Algeria. But it's pretty much over.
After the year Jordan had I'd be very hard pressed to see him leave. He'll be THE MAN next year and should increase his stock. 2016 draft class is going to be a lot weaker.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Can he still recruit at an elite level? Because the last two seasons make me think not.
Absolutely.
2013- Rysheed Jordan, Orlando Sanchez
2014- Adonis Delarosa, Joey Delarosa, Amar Alibegovic, Keith Thomas, Myles Stewart, Jay Henderson
2014 they swung for the fences on a few guys and missed. With the roster so loaded with upperclassman they could take that risk but they should have taken a more practical approach. Example a guy like Ben Bentil would have helped this team but they didn't go after him. All in all though I like Amar and Adonis. If Keith Thomas was on this team they would have really had a good rotation down low.
As for 2015 Brandon Sampson is as good of a recruit that has ever come here. They should have had Briscoe but they can still get Diallo. That's incredible. Doughty is a tough kid who is cut from the same cloth as DJ Kennedy. Fans will like him.
I do think St. John's needs to do a better job of having some plan B kids. They're after some big fish and they've hooked more than they've lost but need to be on some 3-star guys too.
If this is truly the case, and Lavin will continue to recruit at an elite level -- then I can live with him. I'll bitch and moan at times, but worse things could happen to the program.
If, however, Lavin remains but doesn't recruit like he did in '10, '11, and '12 - then we're in the sh*t.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Assuming Jordan leaves the reset button looks to be being pushed next year anyway. That said, I don't know that SJU can do better than Lavin or that it even matters. I think Saint John's is pretty much France: once a powerful force reduced to memories of grandeur. Every once in a while they get to kick the shit out of Mali or Algeria. But it's pretty much over.
After the year Jordan had I'd be very hard pressed to see him leave. He'll be THE MAN next year and should increase his stock. 2016 draft class is going to be a lot weaker.
Kids are crazy, who knows.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Yeah, it definitely didn't work when UVA fired Leitao for Bennett
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Yeah, it definitely didn't work when UVA fired Leitao for Bennett
Leito had the worst record of any coach at UVA since the 70's (which was still better than Norm Roberts) and Bennett had a dreadful first two seasons at UVA while reshaping the program. Not a good comparison.
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Take a look at the big picture
And what is the big picture in your mind?
It is what it is. These kids will get to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.
And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.
Not comparable. They had talent returning. Wells, Layman, Pack etc And they had Trimble inked.
If Sheed was as good as Trimble is this freshman year, do you think we have danced last year. I suppose he was coached up by Turgeon. When you are rebuilding it takes some luck and skill of course. Remember that 5 UMD players transferred out last year, do you think they were all stiffs. I live down here and nobody was happy with him. Prior to the Wisconsin game my friends didn't trust him at all, now they are warming up, but worry if Trimble declares will they go back to last years performance.
Few fans are rarely happy with their coach, everyone is smarter.
Actually, Melo was coached up by Joe Wooten. Melo was mostly SG frosh/soph seasons, and made the transition to PG his Jr. year at O'Connell. He still is a score first PG, but he can go left/right and distribute to teammates good enough for now. He needs to improve his A/TO ratio(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png) quite a bit to get ready for the next level. IMO, Turgeon coached him up the most in the psychological department when PG Seth Allen unexpectedly transferred. He let Melo play his game and didn't pressure him too much.
I say this because that is the one primary area Sheed needs to keep working on - consistently getting his head in the game. Sheed's recent uptick in play has quietly (I say quietly because of the loud boom from Dom and Phil's play) supported the team's push forward. Sheed's decision making and shooting in the flow of the offense is markedly improved.
I still want the program(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png) to take a further step forward (yes, results-wise) the next 5 years. Can Lavin get us there? I'm not sure. The one thing that has irked most of us is the uneven recruiting numbers. I can deal with the coaching quirks as they will not cost "many" games, but this staff needs to keep getting talent in at a manageable level, i.e., year in, year out. I really don't want to hear about a variety of circumstances why we're sitting with another potentially unbalanced class. Strange as it seems, we'll all be very thankful if Sheed and Chris are here next season to provide some starter continuity(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png) for Sampson and whoever joins him. We all were looking at doom if they left after this year. I do not believe it will happen if they're smart, but I think this is most important for Lavin's next two years if he stays.
We are no means to be a lock with a coach that is a sure thing to do better than this staff if a move was made. I like 2-3 coaches who I am pretty sure will do better the next 10 years (Hurley, Miller, and plug in any of a few more), but if we do not connect with them after making a move, there is some risk we could step back a bit - yes, now there's a smidge of room to take steps back - we should give Lavin credit(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png) for that, however begrudgingly some might be inclined.
Since Turgeon was mentioned earlier, and being a long time Terps fan (not as long as STJ's :) , I know it will be hard to get a coach with Turgeon's pedigree that is seemingly a best bet for taking it to the next level. That is why, if a move is made, it better be a late 30s, early 40s HC with some experience and success, but also has the eye of the tiger energy to recruit his behind off and get it done. The up and down recruiting years has me wavering on whether Lavin and the staff can get it done to improve on the past 5 years for the next 5. I don't know who feels like gambling(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png) or cashing in on the safe bet of slightly above mediocre. I really am on the fence right now. If this was 20 years ago, Houdini would pull a sweet 16 out of his hat and quell the natives' drumming for another season. we'll see what unfolds here.........
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Turgeon has a real shot of landing a diamond soon ;)
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png)(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png) last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.
I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.
There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png)(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png) is important than pressing reset button.
Can he still recruit at an elite level? Because the last two seasons make me think not.
Absolutely.
2013- Rysheed Jordan, Orlando Sanchez
2014- Adonis Delarosa, Joey Delarosa, Amar Alibegovic, Keith Thomas, Myles Stewart, Jay Henderson
2014 they swung for the fences on a few guys and missed. With the roster so loaded with upperclassman they could take that risk but they should have taken a more practical approach. Example a guy like Ben Bentil would have helped this team but they didn't go after him. All in all though I like Amar and Adonis. If Keith Thomas was on this team they would have really had a good rotation down low.
As for 2015 Brandon Sampson is as good of a recruit that has ever come here. They should have had Briscoe but they can still get Diallo. That's incredible. Doughty is a tough kid who is cut from the same cloth as DJ Kennedy. Fans will like him.
I do think St. John's needs to do a better job of having some plan B kids. They're after some big fish and they've hooked more than they've lost but need to be on some 3-star guys too.
I still get on the phone with Pervis and try and get Malik over here. PT galore. Terps have way less PT to give.
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Turgeon has a real shot of landing a diamond soon ;)
Everything I've seen had Terps at around 10%. I think the victory last week puts Stone right in the cross hairs. It's good to read your opinion. I think with Carter Jr and Stone, they might be top 10 again next season.
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If Lavin does not get Diallo, then his main focus should be balancing the roster. A few JUCOs, transfers and/or 5th year players.
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Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?
I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.
If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Or how bout if he doesnt foul a 3pt shooter up 3 pts against pstate?
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We missed a ton of foul shots in that game (even D'Lo)....Lavin's fault of course.
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Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history. And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.
Really? I don't like Lavin, so that means I could only be satisfied by the winning-est coach ever?
He has moved the program forward. We are better than we were under Norm. The perception of the program and it's visibility has improved. He made a tournament in 2010 and it looks like he might again this season.
All of these things are true.
But I truthfully don't know if that is good enough. I also look at the state of the program and wonder if the brief success of two 1st round losses, is worth struggling for the next 2+ years.
Desco I think you are a good poster whos only problems people have with you revolves around your position on lavin. That is what it is. But you have got to stop doing what you did above. Before this season started it was "now lavin will be coming off of his 4th straight year of no NCAA", now its "Two first round exits". Guess what, the first part never happened and the second part might just as easily be a visit to the sweet 16. Ive seen you call out posters for off predictions in the past, myself included, just know that thats a title dawned by everyone.
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What are the reasons he deserves an extension?
3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.
From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?
Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either. To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish. If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back. I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.
He had cancer yes. But he also proclaimed himself the teams GM, traveling around the world on so called recruiting trips. Team should be stacked, not in rebuilding mode yet again.
when has SJU ever been STACKED..?
They were not stacked and thats part of it. The last 2 classes could be a reason not to bring him back. Looking for shooters and bringing in Hooper and Bourgoult. Then it was walkons and guys who were never going to qualify, and we were down to 6 players. That never should have happened. The kids coming back this year was remarkable. Go figure Dom would thrive playing 40. Thing is if the last 2 recruiting classes are what can be expected, he can't be brought back. If it can be figured that was just a freak happening, and coach Steve can be expected to bring in guys who can play, sure, bring him back.
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Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history. And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.
Really? I don't like Lavin, so that means I could only be satisfied by the winning-est coach ever?
He has moved the program forward. We are better than we were under Norm. The perception of the program and it's visibility has improved. He made a tournament in 2010 and it looks like he might again this season.
All of these things are true.
But I truthfully don't know if that is good enough. I also look at the state of the program and wonder if the brief success of two 1st round losses, is worth struggling for the next 2+ years.
Desco I think you are a good poster whos only problems people have with you revolves around your position on lavin. That is what it is. But you have got to stop doing what you did above. Before this season started it was "now lavin will be coming off of his 4th straight year of no NCAA", now its "Two first round exits". Guess what, the first part never happened and the second part might just as easily be a visit to the sweet 16. Ive seen you call out posters for off predictions in the past, myself included, just know that thats a title dawned by everyone.
Mase if I criticized him before for no ncaa appearances, I'm not moving the goalposts now, he's just done slightly better.
but just making the tournament was never my barometer.
Frankly no matter what he does this season I don't think he should be back. And I've said that through both wins and losses. no single outcome should be determinitive.
my opinion is based on watching the team for the past 5 seasons, and all that has occurred. So, we might get hot and roll to the Sweet sixteen. We also might get a terrible match up and be bounced in the 1st round. Either way my view will probably only change slightly.
there's been a big sample size already
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Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history. And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.
Really? I don't like Lavin, so that means I could only be satisfied by the winning-est coach ever?
He has moved the program forward. We are better than we were under Norm. The perception of the program and it's visibility has improved. He made a tournament in 2010 and it looks like he might again this season.
All of these things are true.
But I truthfully don't know if that is good enough. I also look at the state of the program and wonder if the brief success of two 1st round losses, is worth struggling for the next 2+ years.
Desco I think you are a good poster whos only problems people have with you revolves around your position on lavin. That is what it is. But you have got to stop doing what you did above. Before this season started it was "now lavin will be coming off of his 4th straight year of no NCAA", now its "Two first round exits". Guess what, the first part never happened and the second part might just as easily be a visit to the sweet 16. Ive seen you call out posters for off predictions in the past, myself included, just know that thats a title dawned by everyone.
Mase if I criticized him before for no ncaa appearances, I'm not moving the goalposts now, he's just done slightly better.
but just making the tournament was never my barometer.
Frankly no matter what he does this season I don't think he should be back. And I've said that through both wins and losses. no single outcome should be determinitive.
my opinion is based on watching the team for the past 5 seasons, and all that has occurred. So, we might get hot and roll to the Sweet sixteen. We also might get a terrible match up and be bounced in the 1st round. Either way my view will probably only change slightly.
there's been a big sample size already
Anything Lavin can do over the next 4-5 years to change your view of him?
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How many times are you going to write the exact same thing? You don't like Coach Lavin. You want a new coach. No matter what. You are a basketball genius.
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Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history. And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.
Really? I don't like Lavin, so that means I could only be satisfied by the winning-est coach ever?
He has moved the program forward. We are better than we were under Norm. The perception of the program and it's visibility has improved. He made a tournament in 2010 and it looks like he might again this season.
All of these things are true.
But I truthfully don't know if that is good enough. I also look at the state of the program and wonder if the brief success of two 1st round losses, is worth struggling for the next 2+ years.
Desco I think you are a good poster whos only problems people have with you revolves around your position on lavin. That is what it is. But you have got to stop doing what you did above. Before this season started it was "now lavin will be coming off of his 4th straight year of no NCAA", now its "Two first round exits". Guess what, the first part never happened and the second part might just as easily be a visit to the sweet 16. Ive seen you call out posters for off predictions in the past, myself included, just know that thats a title dawned by everyone.
Mase if I criticized him before for no ncaa appearances, I'm not moving the goalposts now, he's just done slightly better.
but just making the tournament was never my barometer.
Frankly no matter what he does this season I don't think he should be back. And I've said that through both wins and losses. no single outcome should be determinitive.
my opinion is based on watching the team for the past 5 seasons, and all that has occurred. So, we might get hot and roll to the Sweet sixteen. We also might get a terrible match up and be bounced in the 1st round. Either way my view will probably only change slightly.
there's been a big sample size already
I believe that to be the case for the administration. Lavin has to make them want to give him a contract. Anything less than sweet 16 won't change minds.
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I believe you. You are all knowing. We don't deserve you. Not a one of us.
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I believe you. You are all knowing. We don't deserve you. Not a one of us.
We will find out soon enough
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Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history. And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.
Really? I don't like Lavin, so that means I could only be satisfied by the winning-est coach ever?
He has moved the program forward. We are better than we were under Norm. The perception of the program and it's visibility has improved. He made a tournament in 2010 and it looks like he might again this season.
All of these things are true.
But I truthfully don't know if that is good enough. I also look at the state of the program and wonder if the brief success of two 1st round losses, is worth struggling for the next 2+ years.
Desco I think you are a good poster whos only problems people have with you revolves around your position on lavin. That is what it is. But you have got to stop doing what you did above. Before this season started it was "now lavin will be coming off of his 4th straight year of no NCAA", now its "Two first round exits". Guess what, the first part never happened and the second part might just as easily be a visit to the sweet 16. Ive seen you call out posters for off predictions in the past, myself included, just know that thats a title dawned by everyone.
Mase if I criticized him before for no ncaa appearances, I'm not moving the goalposts now, he's just done slightly better.
but just making the tournament was never my barometer.
Frankly no matter what he does this season I don't think he should be back. And I've said that through both wins and losses. no single outcome should be determinitive.
my opinion is based on watching the team for the past 5 seasons, and all that has occurred. So, we might get hot and roll to the Sweet sixteen. We also might get a terrible match up and be bounced in the 1st round. Either way my view will probably only change slightly.
there's been a big sample size already
I believe that to be the case for the administration. Lavin has to make them want to give him a contract. Anything less than sweet 16 won't change minds.
:2funny:
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No inside info by any stretch, but a few people who claim to be "in the know" have told me that Jordan (along with Obekpa) is expected to be back. Obviously a lot of time and things to play before that happens.
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No inside info by any stretch, but a few people who claim to be "in the know" have told me that Jordan (along with Obekpa) is expected to be back. Obviously a lot of time and things to play before that happens.
So is it inside info or not ;)
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No inside info by any stretch, but a few people who claim to be "in the know" have told me that Jordan (along with Obekpa) is expected to be back. Obviously a lot of time and things to play before that happens.
I don't think these guys feel they have to go like Jakarr due to age concerns. Only if they want to be undrafted and roll the dice. Both guys can step way up into the '16 draft - I think this would let the staff work hard on finishing a really good '16 class. I would like to see a couple more players for '15 To start balancing this roster out
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Turgeon has a real shot of landing a diamond soon ;)
Everything I've seen had Terps at around 10%. I think the victory last week puts Stone right in the cross hairs. It's good to read your opinion. I think with Carter Jr and Stone, they might be top 10 again next season.
Has a lot more legs than that. He's leaning their way.
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Back to the extension discussion. Has anyone asked themselves, does Lavin even want an extension?
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Back to the extension discussion. Has anyone asked themselves, does Lavin even want an extension?
Why not? He already said its a no pressure job
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Back to the extension discussion. Has anyone asked themselves, does Lavin even want an extension?
Why not? He already said its a no pressure job
Relative to UCLA, it is a no pressure job. Just ask Howland.
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Now it's just a matter of negotiations....we all probably have at least four more years of listening to the whiners, complainers, haters, delutionists, critics, Iona fans, and purveyors of sartorial splendor. Should be fun.
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Now it's just a matter of negotiations....we all probably have at least four more years of listening to the whiners, complainers, haters, delutionists, critics, Iona fans, and purveyors of sartorial splendor. Should be fun.
I am rooting for him. He has accomplished nothing yet. A lot of basketball yet to be played. Beat nova .
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Now it's just a matter of negotiations....we all probably have at least four more years of listening to the whiners, complainers, haters, delutionists, critics, Iona fans, and purveyors of sartorial splendor. Should be fun.
Looking at the big picture I see
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The picture of Coach lavin you'll have hanging in your living room. The one with the darts.
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The picture of Coach lavin you'll have hanging in your living room. The one with the darts.
Ya right next to Barrack and Deblassio
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Back to the extension discussion. Has anyone asked themselves, does Lavin even want an extension?
He's said he does, but who knows? The guy is full of it.