6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => Recruiting Archives => Recruiting => 2017 Class => Topic started by: jumpinjohnny on July 21, 2016, 03:32:55 PM
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http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/190953/zach-brown
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Per Zach B
New St John's commit Zach Brown expected to be at Nike Skills Academy this week in Los Angeles. #sjubb
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Is he set to qualify?
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Headed to elv8 I hear
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From Nike Skills Academy last night;
Corey Evans – @coreyevans_10
Zach Brown may lead the Big East in rebounds one day. Space eating big man headed to St John's cleans the glass with the best of them
9:55 PM - 26 Jul 2016
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It's quite possible that by the time the 2017 rankings are finalized next Spring, ZB can be our highest rated recruit since Felipe.
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Is he the biggest (size) top 50 recruit to have ever committed to us?
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Is he the biggest (size) top 50 recruit to have ever committed to us?
I know you're of the younger generation of fans like me Mase, so these guys are before our time, but you'd have to figure this crop would be top50 centers if rankings existed-
Bill Wennington
LeRoy Ellis
Jayson Williams
Zendon Hamilton
Billy Paultz
Shawnelle Scott
Charles Mineland
Glenn Williams
But after watching tape on Zach, it's hard to imagine that he can't be the best center of recent Johnnies history (15-20 years), the recent crop-
Kyle Cuffe
Lamont Hamilton
Mohammed Diatke
Curtis Johnson
Dele Coker
Justin Burrell
Yankuba Sima
Where he stands in Johnnies history as far as all time great Centers, only time can tell. But if you watch his tape and understand his ranking, it's hard to not imagine that he'll be in the conversation.
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Is he the biggest (size) top 50 recruit to have ever committed to us?
I know your of the younger generation of fans like me Mase, so these guys are before our time, but you'd have to figure this crop would be top50 centers if rankings existed-
Bill Wennington
LeRoy Ellis
Jayson Williams
Zendon Hamilton
Billy Paultz
Shawnelle Scott
Charles Mineland
Glenn Williams
But after watching tape on Zach, it's hard to imagine that he can't be the best center of recent Johnnies history (15-20 years), the recent crop-
Kyle Cuffe
Lamont Hamilton
Mohammed Diatke
Curtis Johnson
Dele Coker
Justin Burrell
Yankuba Sima
Where he stands in Johnnies history as far as all time great Centers, only time can tell. But if you watch his tape and understand his ranking, it's hard to not imagine that he'll be in the conversation.
Glenn Williams was a SG & Charles M a 6'6 PF
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Is he the biggest (size) top 50 recruit to have ever committed to us?
I know your of the younger generation of fans like me Mase, so these guys are before our time, but you'd have to figure this crop would be top50 centers if rankings existed-
Bill Wennington
LeRoy Ellis
Jayson Williams
Zendon Hamilton
Billy Paultz
Shawnelle Scott
Charles Mineland
Glenn Williams
But after watching tape on Zach, it's hard to imagine that he can't be the best center of recent Johnnies history (15-20 years), the recent crop-
Kyle Cuffe
Lamont Hamilton
Mohammed Diatke
Curtis Johnson
Dele Coker
Justin Burrell
Yankuba Sima
Where he stands in Johnnies history as far as all time great Centers, only time can tell. But if you watch his tape and understand his ranking, it's hard to not imagine that he'll be in the conversation.
Glenn Williams was a SG & Charles M a 6'6 PF
Apologies on Williams, I counted Mineland bc of his rebounding prowess. I guess Reggie Jessie and Dom can be included there as well if you want to use stretch bigs.
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Is he the biggest (size) top 50 recruit to have ever committed to us?
I know you're of the younger generation of fans like me Mase, so these guys are before our time, but you'd have to figure this crop would be top50 centers if rankings existed-
Bill Wennington
LeRoy Ellis
Jayson Williams
Zendon Hamilton
Billy Paultz
Shawnelle Scott
Charles Mineland
Glenn Williams
But after watching tape on Zach, it's hard to imagine that he can't be the best center of recent Johnnies history (15-20 years), the recent crop-
Kyle Cuffe
Lamont Hamilton
Mohammed Diatke
Curtis Johnson
Dele Coker
Justin Burrell
Yankuba Sima
Where he stands in Johnnies history as far as all time great Centers, only time can tell. But if you watch his tape and understand his ranking, it's hard to not imagine that he'll be in the conversation.
Thanks for the reply Quan! I dont think any of those guys listed were as big as ZB with the exception of maybe Wennington.
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Thanks for the list Quan. I don't know if its worth putting Dom and Reggie Jessie in a greatest center at St Johns conversation
Sounds like a beast on the court, but thirteen months until Aug, 2017 can be a long time. Hopefully he sees the opportunities ahead of him by being exposed to these camps and clinics. Hope he stays focused on books and basketball.
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Is he the biggest (size) top 50 recruit to have ever committed to us?
I know you're of the younger generation of fans like me Mase, so these guys are before our time, but you'd have to figure this crop would be top50 centers if rankings existed-
Bill Wennington
LeRoy Ellis
Jayson Williams
Zendon Hamilton
Billy Paultz
Shawnelle Scott
Charles Mineland
Glenn Williams
But after watching tape on Zach, it's hard to imagine that he can't be the best center of recent Johnnies history (15-20 years), the recent crop-
Kyle Cuffe
Lamont Hamilton
Mohammed Diatke
Curtis Johnson
Dele Coker
Justin Burrell
Yankuba Sima
Where he stands in Johnnies history as far as all time great Centers, only time can tell. But if you watch his tape and understand his ranking, it's hard to not imagine that he'll be in the conversation.
Half of these guys aren't centers. Some of them weren't even power forwards. To answer the question that was asked: yes, he is.
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Keep in mind Brown has been idle long periods of time this year & may be rounding into shape. Hopefully he keeps things together & in two seasons is clogging the middle, clearing the boards & outletting to our quick guards. Ok to dream lol.
Corey Evans – @coreyevans_10
Nick Richards and Zach Brown may have been the most productive bigs this week. Both know what has gotten them here. Assertive on the glass
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Someone should try to put Amare Stoudemire and Zach together. They have so much in common. Florida. Basketball. Upbringing. Jewish. New York.
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I don't know if its worth putting Dom and Reggie Jessie in a greatest center at St Johns conversation
And the Winner for Understatement of the Year goes to Braintrust, for "I don't know if its worth putting Dom and Reggie Jessie in a greatest center at St Johns conversation."
Seriously though, the name missing from that list is Paul Berwanger. And no Sean Muto? No Baldi? No Bayne? No Keita? Young people are shamefully unaware of the great history of this once proud program.
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Rob Werdann?
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Bill Phillips, a seven footer
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Bill Phillips, a seven footer
That was a monster team with Killer, Greg Cluess, Tony Prince and Billy Schaeffer. Mulzoff may not have been the greatest coach, but his teams were entertaining to watch and regularly scored 80+ ponts per game
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I don't know if its worth putting Dom and Reggie Jessie in a greatest center at St Johns conversation
And the Winner for Understatement of the Year goes to Braintrust, for "I don't know if its worth putting Dom and Reggie Jessie in a greatest center at St Johns conversation."
Seriously though, the name missing from that list is Paul Berwanger. And no Sean Muto? No Baldi? No Bayne? No Keita? Young people are shamefully unaware of the great history of this once proud program.
Kit Frey
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Isn't Curtis Johnson the tallest center on record? 7'3/320
Dom not only played center for the majority of the 14-15' season, he averaged 7.7 RPG doing so, which probably ranks in the upper half of SJU centers per game average over one year. 13.7 ppg/3.0 apg/1.9 spg to boot, a ridiculous season.
Thinking it over Zendon followed by Lamont Hamilton are probably the best Johnnies centers of my Johnnies' fandom thus far.
Old timers, who's the best Johnnies center of all time?
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Old timers, who's the best Johnnies center of all time?
I resent your ageism, but after Paul Berwanger no doubt it was LeRoy Ellis.
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In 69' Paultz avg 15/15......stud
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I would rank the centers thus:
1. Leroy Ellis- Before my time, but Coach C also rated him the best Center.
2. Mel Davis- For one season. Should have been a PF, but beggars cannot be choosy.
3. Jayson Williams- His junior year.
3. A.. Bill Wennington- Once he got rid of the crew cut, he had a super solid career.
4. Rob Werdann- Solid four years.
5. Billy Paultz- An over achiever to the "n" degree.
6. Z Hamilton- Like Felipe, solid, but more was expected.
7. S. Scott- Another PF playing out of position.
8. Wayne McCoy- Solid, but another C who more was expected from.
9. All the Cs I left out.
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Old timers, who's the best Johnnies center of all time?
I resent your ageism, but after Paul Berwanger no doubt it was LeRoy Ellis.
Agree
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I showed my colleague (longtime NBA fanatic) ZB's highlights and he said he was reminded of a raw but taller Zach Randolph.
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I would rank the centers thus:
1. Leroy Ellis- Before my time, but Coach C also rated him the best Center.
2. Mel Davis- For one season. Should have been a PF, but beggars cannot be choosy.
6'6" - probably a 2 guard today
3. Jayson Williams- His junior year.
i was looking forward o his senior year, another in a long line of disappointments
3. A.. Bill Wennington- Once he got rid of the crew cut, he had a super solid career.
but for ewing who knows how'd he'd be remembered, which is as a canadian gollumpus
4. Rob Werdann- Solid four years.
Nothing about Werdann was solid, he was made of Tissue paper
5. Billy Paultz- An over achiever to the "n" degree.
the first in a long line of LWG (lou's white golems)
6. Z Hamilton- Like Felipe, solid, but more was expected.
Underrated
7. S. Scott- Another PF playing out of position.
Underrated
8. Wayne McCoy- Solid, but another C who more was expected from.
bust
9. All the Cs I left out.
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I would rank the centers thus:
1. Leroy Ellis- Before my time, but Coach C also rated him the best Center.
2. Mel Davis- For one season. Should have been a PF, but beggars cannot be choosy.
3. Jayson Williams- His junior year.
3. A.. Bill Wennington- Once he got rid of the crew cut, he had a super solid career.
4. Rob Werdann- Solid four years.
5. Billy Paultz- An over achiever to the "n" degree.
6. Z Hamilton- Like Felipe, solid, but more was expected.
7. S. Scott- Another PF playing out of position.
8. Wayne McCoy- Solid, but another C who more was expected from.
9. All the Cs I left out.
Killer played PF the center was either Phillips, Greg Cluess or Tony Prince.
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I'll show my lack of time depth. Lamont Hamilton? Is he in the mix?
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I'll show my lack of time depth. Lamont Hamilton? Is he in the mix?
In the mix in the list above, no. In the next five, probably.
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Love this discussion that started from my question, but still wondering if he is the biggest high quality recruit to have signed with us. Understand we had bigger players like Curtis Johnson but I don't think he was particularly highly sought after.
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I thought Zendon was top 5 to 10 recruit
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I thought Zendon was top 5 to 10 recruit
Top 5, although I don't think it was quite as scientific as it is nowadays
http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/camron-was-ranked-top-25-class-94-high-school-rankings
Werdann was a MD AA along with 20 ther players including Malik Sealy, Billy Owens, Alonzo Mourning, Xtian Laettner, Shawn Kemp and Laphonso Ellis
http://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/mcdonalds/rosters/1988
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I thought Zendon was top 5 to 10 recruit
Top 5, although I don't think it was quite as scientific as it is nowadays
http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/camron-was-ranked-top-25-class-94-high-school-rankings
Werdann was a MD AA along with 20 ther players including Malik Sealy, Billy Owens, Alonzo Mourning, Xtian Laettner, Shawn Kemp and Laphonso Ellis
http://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/mcdonalds/rosters/1988
And piggy backing my own post Wayne McKoy was probably the #1 player in his class, projected as an NBA lock out of HS
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I don't know if its worth putting Dom and Reggie Jessie in a greatest center at St Johns conversation
And the Winner for Understatement of the Year goes to Braintrust, for "I don't know if its worth putting Dom and Reggie Jessie in a greatest center at St Johns conversation."
Seriously though, the name missing from that list is Paul Berwanger. And no Sean Muto? No Baldi? No Bayne? No Keita? Young people are shamefully unaware of the great history of this once proud program.
Thanks Foad! I saw where Werdann and McKoy were given their due, they were true centers.
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I thought Zendon was top 5 to 10 recruit
Top 5, although I don't think it was quite as scientific as it is nowadays
http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/camron-was-ranked-top-25-class-94-high-school-rankings
Werdann was a MD AA along with 20 ther players including Malik Sealy, Billy Owens, Alonzo Mourning, Xtian Laettner, Shawn Kemp and Laphonso Ellis
http://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/mcdonalds/rosters/1988
And piggy backing my own post Wayne McKoy was probably the #1 player in his class, projected as an NBA lock out of HS
Some ranking services may have had McKoy ranked #1 but I recall Basketball Weekly magazine ranking Magic Johnson #1 and I was ticked off. Guess they knew what they were doing.
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I would rank the centers thus:
1. Leroy Ellis- Before my time, but Coach C also rated him the best Center.
2. Mel Davis- For one season. Should have been a PF, but beggars cannot be choosy.
6'6" - probably a 2 guard today
3. Jayson Williams- His junior year.
i was looking forward o his senior year, another in a long line of disappointments
3. A.. Bill Wennington- Once he got rid of the crew cut, he had a super solid career.
but for ewing who knows how'd he'd be remembered, which is as a canadian gollumpus
4. Rob Werdann- Solid four years.
Nothing about Werdann was solid, he was made of Tissue paper
5. Billy Paultz- An over achiever to the "n" degree.
the first in a long line of LWG (lou's white golems)
6. Z Hamilton- Like Felipe, solid, but more was expected.
Underrated
7. S. Scott- Another PF playing out of position.
Underrated
8. Wayne McCoy- Solid, but another C who more was expected from.
bust
9. All the Cs I left out.
I could be mistaken but Werdann was in my class and I think it was only his senior year that he missed a lot of time. If anything he just never put up big scoring numbers. Maybe averaging low double digits and didnt progress that much maybe but I think year 1-3 he had steady rebound numbers ( maybe 7 a game ). I don't remember the scoring numbers but I think it was double digits but that was a lot of beers ago so I'm foggy on that
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Corey Evans – @coreyevans_10
10 Takeaways from #NikeSkillsAcademy: Collin Sexton ascends + playmakers in tow at Villanova http://www.hoopseen.com/news/event/201607/10-things-learned-nike-skills-academy …
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I would rank the centers thus:
1. Leroy Ellis- Before my time, but Coach C also rated him the best Center.
2. Mel Davis- For one season. Should have been a PF, but beggars cannot be choosy.
6'6" - probably a 2 guard today
3. Jayson Williams- His junior year.
i was looking forward o his senior year, another in a long line of disappointments
3. A.. Bill Wennington- Once he got rid of the crew cut, he had a super solid career.
but for ewing who knows how'd he'd be remembered, which is as a canadian gollumpus
4. Rob Werdann- Solid four years.
Nothing about Werdann was solid, he was made of Tissue paper
5. Billy Paultz- An over achiever to the "n" degree.
the first in a long line of LWG (lou's white golems)
6. Z Hamilton- Like Felipe, solid, but more was expected.
Underrated
7. S. Scott- Another PF playing out of position.
Underrated
8. Wayne McCoy- Solid, but another C who more was expected from.
bust
9. All the Cs I left out.
I could be mistaken but Werdann was in my class and I think it was only his senior year that he missed a lot of time. If anything he just never put up big scoring numbers. Maybe averaging low double digits and didnt progress that much maybe but I think year 1-3 he had steady rebound numbers ( maybe 7 a game ). I don't remember the scoring numbers but I think it was double digits but that was a lot of beers ago so I'm foggy on that
You are right.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/robert-werdann-1.html
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I could be mistaken but Werdann was in my class and I think it was only his senior year that he missed a lot of time. If anything he just never put up big scoring numbers. Maybe averaging low double digits and didnt progress that much maybe but I think year 1-3 he had steady rebound numbers ( maybe 7 a game ). I don't remember the scoring numbers but I think it was double digits but that was a lot of beers ago so I'm foggy on that
My recollection is that there was always something wrong with him. This was sprained, that was bruised, the other thing was aggravated. His calf was an issue for almost two years.
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I could be mistaken but Werdann was in my class and I think it was only his senior year that he missed a lot of time. If anything he just never put up big scoring numbers. Maybe averaging low double digits and didnt progress that much maybe but I think year 1-3 he had steady rebound numbers ( maybe 7 a game ). I don't remember the scoring numbers but I think it was double digits but that was a lot of beers ago so I'm foggy on that
My recollection is that there was always something wrong with him. This was sprained, that was bruised, the other thing was aggravated. His calf was an issue for almost two years.
Very soft player. Yeah that calf is probably still causing him pain.
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I could be mistaken but Werdann was in my class and I think it was only his senior year that he missed a lot of time. If anything he just never put up big scoring numbers. Maybe averaging low double digits and didnt progress that much maybe but I think year 1-3 he had steady rebound numbers ( maybe 7 a game ). I don't remember the scoring numbers but I think it was double digits but that was a lot of beers ago so I'm foggy on that
My recollection is that there was always something wrong with him. This was sprained, that was bruised, the other thing was aggravated. His calf was an issue for almost two years.
I definitely remember the calf thing. Don't remember which year it was but remember something with it
I have a friend who when we play softball he always looks like he is hurt playing even when he's perfectly healthy. Kind of reminds me of werdann. In school we always thought he would end up putting up great scoring numbers down the road. We had Malik who carried us but we thought we were going to get nice numbers from him. He was solid but never great
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After some off the court issues and inconsistent play, Zach Brown, a 7-foot prospect out of Miami, fell from Scout’s top 100. But it appears he’s more than earned his way back in when the player rankings are updated post-July. Brown was aggressive at camp and used his size and length to his advantage in the post. Brown was active on the glass, especially on the offensive end, and did a good job of fighting for good position, sealing off defenders and finishing with powerful dunks in the paint.
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1690393-nike-skils-duval-shines-plus-top-performers
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My gut tells me he will get his act together and be a good one for us. A real bona fide center w offense
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#36 in new ESPN rankings
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Per Braziller
St John's commit Zach Brown is attending Elevation Academy in Sarasota, Fla., where he took classes over the summer, I'm told. #sjubb
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St. John's Chris Mullin and @mabde33
are also going to Florida Saturday to see 2017 pledge Zach Brown at Elevation Academy in Sarasota
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https://mobile.twitter.com/NYPost_Brazille/status/782970266284621824
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Per Zach B
St. John's will check in on 2017 commit Zach Brown today. Told he is expected to sign during early period in November. #sjubb
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Interesting that the frequent "check ins" on this kid are part of what feels like a public campaign to assure us that appropriate diligence is being done by the staff. I'm all for transparency, but I wonder if this perpetrates the perception that ZB is risky.
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Interesting that the frequent "check ins" on this kid are part of what feels like a public campaign to assure us that appropriate diligence is being done by the staff. I'm all for transparency, but I wonder if this perpetrates the perception that ZB is risky.
That or it could be that skilled big men are extremely hard to find and this guy was being recruited by the blue bloods before his legal troubles and they want to make sure they keep him a priority to make sure those others schools don't come sniffing around. A verbal is nice but it is not cemented until he signs.
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Interesting that the frequent "check ins" on this kid are part of what feels like a public campaign to assure us that appropriate diligence is being done by the staff. I'm all for transparency, but I wonder if this perpetrates the perception that ZB is risky.
That or it could be that skilled big men are extremely hard to find and this guy was being recruited by the blue bloods before his legal troubles and they want to make sure they keep him a priority to make sure those others schools don't come sniffing around. A verbal is nice but it is not cemented until he signs.
Yeah, I'm down with this. This guy could really be the real deal, don't let him think of going elsewhere.
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I think it's just us showing our commitment to him as well. The kid is monstrous, and as others have said, bigs like him don't grow on trees. It seems he's past his legal troubles hopefully, /!: getting him to sign early with us would be a big coup. Now isn't the time to back off before he actually signs.
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Everyone likes to be shown the love. I'm sure Zach is no different. I'm glad our guys are on top of him.
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Best to babysit all recruits until they sign and even after. If they aren't doing it then someone else will.
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@NYPost_Brazille 3m
St. John's commit Zach Brown has transferred to Calusa Prep in Miami, source confirms.#sjubb
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@NYPost_Brazille 3m
St. John's commit Zach Brown has transferred to Calusa Prep in Miami, source confirms.#sjubb
At the end of October?
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Per Zach B
Told Zach Brown transfer was to be closer to ongoing court case in Miami. #sjubb
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Hope I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if this guy ever made it to campus
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Hope I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if this guy ever made it to campus
I'd be more concerned if it were because of academics. We know he's still settling his legal issues and plans to sign next month. As long as he's in good academic standing, and it seems his legal issues are getting sorted out, I'm cautiously optimistic. As SJU fans we don't know how to be optimistic about much because we get burned, but oddly I think this one might work out as long as legal issues get cleared up.
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Well worth the risk.
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From Zags blog
Zach Brown, the 7-foot-1 big man who has verbally committed to St. John’s for 2017, has transferred schools and is expected to sign his Letter of Intent in November during the early signing period.
Brown is now at Miami (FL) Calusa Prep School after he was previously enrolled at Sarasota (FL) Elevation Prep Academy since the last week of June.
Sources said Brown was advised to be in the Miami area to best help himself get exonerated from the charges against him and to do his community service. Brown was arrested in Miami in May on multiple robbery charges, several of which were eventually dropped. He committed to St. John’s in July after initially pledging to UConn.
“Zach will play with the Championship Academy Program that Calusa Prep is partners with,” said Derrick DeLaGrana, the head coach at Calusa Prep. “What he brings to our team instantly is someone that can control the paint on both sides of the floor. His length and athleticism will allow us to be a great defensive team and on the offensive side be our main option…With his high IQ he will open up opportunities for the rest of our guys.”
DeLaGrana said the school has two teams and that Brown will be playing with both the Calusa Prep team and the Championship Academy Program.Brown is expected to sign a Letter of Intent during the NCAA early signing period Nov. 9-16. “Yes, in November,” DeLaGrana said.
Brown could face eligibility issues going forward given the fact that he’s attended multiple schools, but sources said St. John’s is confident he can become eligible if he continues to work toward his goals.
Follow Adam Zagoria on Twitter
And like ZAGS on Facebook
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My understanding of his situation both legally and academically is they are confident of the plan thats in place(in GREAT detail) which will put him in uniform next season. They like the kid, wanna help this kid but stating the obvious its ultimately up to him
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From Zags blog
Zach Brown, the 7-foot-1 big man who has verbally committed to St. John’s for 2017, has transferred schools and is expected to sign his Letter of Intent in November during the early signing period.
Brown is now at Miami (FL) Calusa Prep School after he was previously enrolled at Sarasota (FL) Elevation Prep Academy since the last week of June.
Sources said Brown was advised to be in the Miami area to best help himself get exonerated from the charges against him and to do his community service. Brown was arrested in Miami in May on multiple robbery charges, several of which were eventually dropped. He committed to St. John’s in July after initially pledging to UConn.
“Zach will play with the Championship Academy Program that Calusa Prep is partners with,” said Derrick DeLaGrana, the head coach at Calusa Prep. “What he brings to our team instantly is someone that can control the paint on both sides of the floor. His length and athleticism will allow us to be a great defensive team and on the offensive side be our main option…With his high IQ he will open up opportunities for the rest of our guys.”
DeLaGrana said the school has two teams and that Brown will be playing with both the Calusa Prep team and the Championship Academy Program.Brown is expected to sign a Letter of Intent during the NCAA early signing period Nov. 9-16. “Yes, in November,” DeLaGrana said.
Brown could face eligibility issues going forward given the fact that he’s attended multiple schools, but sources said St. JOHNS IS CONFIDENT HE CAN BECOME ELIGIBLE IF HE CONTINUES TO WORK TOWARD HIS GOALS.
Follow Adam Zagoria on Twitter
And like ZAGS on Facebook
Whenever you read St. John's is confident a recruit can overcome eligibility issues, be afraid, be very afraid.
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Paultz assume you feel that way even if it meant that we don't get a kid like French who many here like and who it seems we had a very good shot with before Brown? From what I've heard, the upside for Brown plus view that everything will be sorted out fine outweighs passing on him and taking a kid like French, even though the staff liked him too (though not nearly on Brown's level)
Well worth the risk.
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Paultz assume you feel that way even if it meant that we don't get a kid like French who many here like and who it seems we had a very good shot with before Brown? From what I've heard, the upside for Brown plus view that everything will be sorted out fine outweighs passing on him and taking a kid like French, even though the staff liked him too (though not nearly on Brown's level)
Well worth the risk.
I would take the opinion of many on this site, with respect to their ability to assess talent, with a grain of salt. Many were touting Sima better than Obekpa. I hope we see how ridiculous that is. We can find players like French, players like Brown, not so easy.
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Paultz assume you feel that way even if it meant that we don't get a kid like French who many here like and who it seems we had a very good shot with before Brown? From what I've heard, the upside for Brown plus view that everything will be sorted out fine outweighs passing on him and taking a kid like French, even though the staff liked him too (though not nearly on Brown's level)
Well worth the risk.
Exactly & realize French was not a lock for SJU. To me, you're playing with house money re Brown. It is not like passing on another 4 star true big man.
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Paultz assume you feel that way even if it meant that we don't get a kid like French who many here like and who it seems we had a very good shot with before Brown? From what I've heard, the upside for Brown plus view that everything will be sorted out fine outweighs passing on him and taking a kid like French, even though the staff liked him too (though not nearly on Brown's level)
Well worth the risk.
I would take the opinion of many on this site, with respect to their ability to assess talent, with a grain of salt. Many were touting Sima better than Obekpa. I hope we see how ridiculous that is. We can find players like French, players like Brown, not so easy.
Why is that ridiculous? Their stats are pretty similar, minus blocks, and even then, aside from Obekpa's freshman year he isn't far off. Sima brings some semblance of an offensive game with him and seems like someone who is willing to sacrifice his own stats in a team effort, unlike Obekpa.
I think Obekpa was done dirty by poor coaching and and lack of discipline, but aside from some exciting blocks, didn't really do much here.
Sorry to derail.
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Different year...same old story.
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How many schools has Brown been enrolled in?
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I think sima is better than Obekpa already. He was injured as well for quite a bit. Obekpa's offense was abysmal. Sims had a solid freshman year for a young big guy, who also played injured.
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I think sima is better than Obekpa already. He was injured as well for quite a bit. Obekpa's offense was abysmal. Sims had a solid freshman year for a young big guy, who also played injured.
Also he's not a sociopath
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I think sima is better than Obekpa already. He was injured as well for quite a bit. Obekpa's offense was abysmal. Sims had a solid freshman year for a young big guy, who also played injured.
Also he's not a sociopath
Sima can probaby beat some ass in the shower
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Can Sima handle the Fordham front court? Because last year he couldn't. It would be great if he's a better than Obekpa when it's all said and done, but he's not there yet. Obekpa had a rare skill, and Sima doesn't excel like that at anything. But let's see what he's ready to do in two weeks.
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I want to see how much stronger Sima got this offseason. Interested to see how he controls the paint, blocks out, and rebounds. Also want to see him be a little more selfish offensively.
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Sima was second in the league in blocks as a freshman and he was hurt for part of the year. What more did you expect?
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Sima was second in the league in blocks as a freshman and he was hurt for part of the year. What more did you expect?
Like I said, he needed to get stronger in the off season to handle all the banging in the league and impose his will down low. Blocks are only one small part of the equation. His rebounding needs to get up to 7-8/game too.
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His rebounding needs to get up to 7-8/game
Two players in the BE averaged > 8 rebounds a game last year. Six averaged more than seven. Three of those six are in the NBA.
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His rebounding needs to get up to 7-8/game
Two players in the BE averaged > 8 rebounds a game last year. Six averaged more than seven. Three of those six are in the NBA.
My guess is they had other skill sets.
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His rebounding needs to get up to 7-8/game
Two players in the BE averaged > 8 rebounds a game last year. Six averaged more than seven. Three of those six are in the NBA.
It's attainable.
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
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Paultz assume you feel that way even if it meant that we don't get a kid like French who many here like and who it seems we had a very good shot with before Brown? From what I've heard, the upside for Brown plus view that everything will be sorted out fine outweighs passing on him and taking a kid like French, even though the staff liked him too (though not nearly on Brown's level)
Well worth the risk.
Many were touting Sima better than Obekpa. I hope we see how ridiculous that is.
Taken with a grain
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His rebounding needs to get up to 7-8/game
Two players in the BE averaged > 8 rebounds a game last year. Six averaged more than seven. Three of those six are in the NBA.
My guess is they had other skill sets.
My point is that nonchalantly saying that a sophomore should do what three NBA players did might lead to disappointment.
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Freshman year stats:
Obekpa Sima
PPG. 3.9. 7.3
Rebs. 6.2. 5.7
Blk. 4.0. 2.4
FT. .391. .386
Fg%. .451. .487
I'm not sure anybody can say that Obekpa was better as a freshman. Sima doubled obekpa's points per game and had a bit higher fg%. The other categories were extremely close except for blocks, and don't forget that Sima was out injured and then payed injured second half season. He didn't play as well while injured as he did early in the season.
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
Agree with this...both have plenty of upside.
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Usually very positive about the up coming season and our players. I love yawke. He is by far my favorite player coming back . I don't think he is anywhere close to being as good as many of you. Sima had some very good games . Also got abused at times. ( vandy, I believe Georgetown) and he wasn't very good after the injury. Not saying I hate him . But he is no where close to an NBA prospect currently. I compared him to Lamont Hamilton last year. he still has plenty of work to be Lamont good.
As far as quoting last years stats and comparing them to previous seasons. Makes no sense to me. We were that bad. Games weren't close (even though many of you remember them close). Bad players can get stats just by playing. Sima is promising. But he was not a good big east center playing as a freshman. As a sophomore I think he will be average. As an upperclassman I think he will be good.
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Usually very positive about the up coming season and our players. I love yawke. He is by far my favorite player coming back . I don't think he is anywhere close to being as good as many of you. Sima had some very good games . Also got abused at times. ( vandy, I believe Georgetown) and he wasn't very good after the injury. Not saying I hate him . But he is no where close to an NBA prospect currently. I compared him to Lamont Hamilton last year. he still has plenty of work to be Lamont good.
As far as quoting last years stats and comparing them to previous seasons. Makes no sense to me. We were that bad. Games weren't close (even though many of you remember them close). Bad players can get stats just by playing. Sima is promising. But he was not a good big east center playing as a freshman. As a sophomore I think he will be average. As an upperclassman I think he will be good.
He wasn't a good BE center as a freshman. He was a good BE center for a freshman.
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I tend to listen to what the opposing coaches in the league say. The only 2 guys I recall opposing coaches speak in a positive manner about, without prompting, where Yawke and Sima. McDermott, I believe, said that Sima will be a really good big in the league for a number of years. Willard said that any coach in the league would want Yawke and Sima on their team.
Usually very positive about the up coming season and our players. I love yawke. He is by far my favorite player coming back . I don't think he is anywhere close to being as good as many of you. Sima had some very good games . Also got abused at times. ( vandy, I believe Georgetown) and he wasn't very good after the injury. Not saying I hate him . But he is no where close to an NBA prospect currently. I compared him to Lamont Hamilton last year. he still has plenty of work to be Lamont good.
As far as quoting last years stats and comparing them to previous seasons. Makes no sense to me. We were that bad. Games weren't close (even though many of you remember them close). Bad players can get stats just by playing. Sima is promising. But he was not a good big east center playing as a freshman. As a sophomore I think he will be average. As an upperclassman I think he will be good.
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Agree with both of you.
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Agree with both of you.
Cop out.
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Paultz assume you feel that way even if it meant that we don't get a kid like French who many here like and who it seems we had a very good shot with before Brown? From what I've heard, the upside for Brown plus view that everything will be sorted out fine outweighs passing on him and taking a kid like French, even though the staff liked him too (though not nearly on Brown's level)
Well worth the risk.
Many were touting Sima better than Obekpa. I hope we see how ridiculous that is.
Taken with a grain
So you believe Sima looked better than Obekpa comparing their freshman year? Does Sima has potential, yes. However unless you believe he's leaving for the NBA after this season he is already being recruited over.
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
Both have 3 years remaining. If they don't make the league, gotta think it's on the staff
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I tend to listen to what the opposing coaches in the league say. The only 2 guys I recall opposing coaches speak in a positive manner about, without prompting, where Yawke and Sima. McDermott, I believe, said that Sima will be a really good big in the league for a number of years. Willard said that any coach in the league would want Yawke and Sima on their team.
Usually very positive about the up coming season and our players. I love yawke. He is by far my favorite player coming back . I don't think he is anywhere close to being as good as many of you. Sima had some very good games . Also got abused at times. ( vandy, I believe Georgetown) and he wasn't very good after the injury. Not saying I hate him . But he is no where close to an NBA prospect currently. I compared him to Lamont Hamilton last year. he still has plenty of work to be Lamont good.
As far as quoting last years stats and comparing them to previous seasons. Makes no sense to me. We were that bad. Games weren't close (even though many of you remember them close). Bad players can get stats just by playing. Sima is promising. But he was not a good big east center playing as a freshman. As a sophomore I think he will be average. As an upperclassman I think he will be good.
Remember what the opposing coaches said about Norm Roberts?
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
Both have 3 years remaining. If they don't make the league, gotta think it's on the staff
I remember reading a publication that mentioned there was a possibility that Mussini may not come here as NBA teams were giving him a look. So we went 1-17 in league play with 3 NBA players on our roster? Its either on the staff, or just maybe we should curb our enthusiasm. There is potential for Sima and KY no question, but until we actually see it, they are not currently NBA material. It's hard to get there. That doesn't mean they will not be great college players for us or develop into future pro's.
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
Both have 3 years remaining. If they don't make the league, gotta think it's on the staff
I remember reading a publication that mentioned there was a possibility that Mussini may not come here as NBA teams were giving him a look. So we went 1-17 in league play with 3 NBA players on our roster? Its either on the staff, or just maybe we should curb our enthusiasm. There is potential for Sima and KY no question, but until we actually see it, they are not currently NBA material. It's hard to get there. That doesn't mean they will not be great college players for us or develop into future pro's.
Exactly. Huge potential. But if it's not realized, who is to blame? 4 years to harness that potential
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Paultz assume you feel that way even if it meant that we don't get a kid like French who many here like and who it seems we had a very good shot with before Brown? From what I've heard, the upside for Brown plus view that everything will be sorted out fine outweighs passing on him and taking a kid like French, even though the staff liked him too (though not nearly on Brown's level)
Well worth the risk.
Many were touting Sima better than Obekpa. I hope we see how ridiculous that is.
Taken with a grain
So you believe Sima looked better than Obekpa comparing their freshman year? Does Sima has potential, yes. However unless you believe he's leaving for the NBA after this season he is already being recruited over.
Absolutely
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Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
Both have 3 years remaining. If they don't make the league, gotta think it's on the staff
I remember reading a publication that mentioned there was a possibility that Mussini may not come here as NBA teams were giving him a look. So we went 1-17 in league play with 3 NBA players on our roster? Its either on the staff, or just maybe we should curb our enthusiasm. There is potential for Sima and KY no question, but until we actually see it, they are not currently NBA material. It's hard to get there. That doesn't mean they will not be great college players for us or develop into future pro's.
Exactly. Huge potential. But if it's not realized, who is to blame? 4 years to harness that potential
Remember Wayne McKoy? Huge potential but he never realized all the hype. Was that Looies fault?
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So, baldi- you need to blame Leary for never getting off the bench and not getting a div 1 scholarship to the powerhouse Iona. Please-saying Sima and yak are both pros right now is ridiculous as they are both so raw and to blame staff.
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Speaking of lottery picks how is the steal of the draft Richardson doing in NBA
You think he will get his first points in the NBA or the D-league
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Getting back to Zach Brown.....
It is concerning that there is another school switch, coupled with the charges. Hopefully he's getting the right guidance.
If he does sign w/ us as being reported, I'm going in with mindset that he likely won't be fully eligible as we get closer to next season.
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
Both have 3 years remaining. If they don't make the league, gotta think it's on the staff
I remember reading a publication that mentioned there was a possibility that Mussini may not come here as NBA teams were giving him a look. So we went 1-17 in league play with 3 NBA players on our roster? Its either on the staff, or just maybe we should curb our enthusiasm. There is potential for Sima and KY no question, but until we actually see it, they are not currently NBA material. It's hard to get there. That doesn't mean they will not be great college players for us or develop into future pro's.
Exactly. Huge potential. But if it's not realized, who is to blame? 4 years to harness that potential
Remember Wayne McKoy? Huge potential but he never realized all the hype. Was that Looies fault?
Before my time
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So, baldi- you need to blame Leary for never getting off the bench and not getting a div 1 scholarship to the powerhouse Iona. Please-saying Sima and yak are both pros right now is ridiculous as they are both so raw and to blame staff.
Not that I had a chance, but Leary never networked his players that actually could play.
And yes, if these 2 don't get betterment good enough in the next 3 years staff takes some of the blame
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In the first part of the year I thought Sima was a future NBA player. But, He didn't look so good after the injury. I'm not sure if it is because he was never fully recovered or because he was playing against stronger competition. This year will be telling. Re, Brown, I'll take him as a partial qualifier and be happy. , like Lovett . He definitely has red flags, but , if he didn't, we would be competing w schools like Kansas for him. I believe he has big upside and his troubles have affected his ratings.
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Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
Obekpa was great his Freshman year but it was clear he had 0 offensive potential. He also didn't really improve much through the years as he was still just an average rebounder for a guy his size and never learned when to go for a block and when not to
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Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
Obekpa was great his Freshman year but it was clear he had 0 offensive potential. He also didn't really improve much through the years as he was still just an average rebounder for a guy his size and never learned when to go for a block and when not to
Never got any better from day 1
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Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
Wow'd by one thing: his shot blocking. It was the best Ive ever seen but other than that he did nothing well, espically as a freshmen. I'm not saying you couldn't win big with CO as your center, I just prefer Sima. He is bigger, better offensively, and he has some semblance of consciousness when he has the ball. He may not be the best shot blocker ive ever seen but 2.5 a game as a freshmen is about as close to that as you could be.
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I think he improved a bit, particularly in between his sophomore/junior year. More physical, better D and less one dimensional. But I agree that Sima's upside as an all around player is higher if for no greater reason than it seems that Sima's aptitude is on a different planet than Obekpa's. Obekpa did one thing as good as almost any college hoops player I've seen in the past decade if not more. Otherwise was very flawed.
Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
Obekpa was great his Freshman year but it was clear he had 0 offensive potential. He also didn't really improve much through the years as he was still just an average rebounder for a guy his size and never learned when to go for a block and when not to
Never got any better from day 1
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Obekpa never boxed out, he was a one trick pony
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Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
Wow'd by one thing: his shot blocking. It was the best Ive ever seen but other than that he did nothing well, espically as a freshmen. I'm not saying you couldn't win big with CO as your center, I just prefer Sima. He is bigger, better offensively, and he has some semblance of consciousness when he has the ball. He may not be the best shot blocker ive ever seen but 2.5 a game as a freshmen is about as close to that as you could be.
Obekpa was a better rebounder and shot blocker. He also redirected so many shots, he was one of the better defensive players in college basketball. The "potential" was much higher for Obekpa than Sima after their perspective freshman year. We just know what happened with Obekpa. I don't think any of us thought he wouldn't improve at all over the course of his time here. Look at Noah for the Knicks. He has had a pretty good NBA career and his offense is non-existent. I think Brown will take minutes away form Sima from day 1 unless Sima shows significant improvement. Talent doesn't go 1-17 in league play.
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Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
Wow'd by one thing: his shot blocking. It was the best Ive ever seen but other than that he did nothing well, espically as a freshmen. I'm not saying you couldn't win big with CO as your center, I just prefer Sima. He is bigger, better offensively, and he has some semblance of consciousness when he has the ball. He may not be the best shot blocker ive ever seen but 2.5 a game as a freshmen is about as close to that as you could be.
Obekpa was a better rebounder and shot blocker. He also redirected so many shots, he was one of the better defensive players in college basketball. The "potential" was much higher for Obekpa than Sima after their perspective freshman year. We just know what happened with Obekpa. I don't think any of us thought he wouldn't improve at all over the course of his time here. Look at Noah for the Knicks. He has had a pretty good NBA career and his offense is non-existent. I think Brown will take minutes away form Sima from day 1 unless Sima shows significant improvement. Talent doesn't go 1-17 in league play.
In addition to blocks and alters, he also goaltended far too often when he didn't have to, and went for blocks that he had no chance of getting leading him to vacate his rebounding position resulting in an easy offensive rebound and put back
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Obekpa got a lot better. He was always a great shot blocker. As he got stronger he played adequate post defense. Never a good rebounder. On offense he also got better. Still really poor.
He was the most overrated player in johnnyjungle history.
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Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
Wow'd by one thing: his shot blocking. It was the best Ive ever seen but other than that he did nothing well, espically as a freshmen. I'm not saying you couldn't win big with CO as your center, I just prefer Sima. He is bigger, better offensively, and he has some semblance of consciousness when he has the ball. He may not be the best shot blocker ive ever seen but 2.5 a game as a freshmen is about as close to that as you could be.
Obekpa was a better rebounder and shot blocker. He also redirected so many shots, he was one of the better defensive players in college basketball. The "potential" was much higher for Obekpa than Sima after their perspective freshman year. We just know what happened with Obekpa. I don't think any of us thought he wouldn't improve at all over the course of his time here. Look at Noah for the Knicks. He has had a pretty good NBA career and his offense is non-existent. I think Brown will take minutes away form Sima from day 1 unless Sima shows significant improvement. Talent doesn't go 1-17 in league play.
Disagree with their relative potential. Obekpa's started and ended with shot blocking. Sims is at least 2 inches taller and can be a multi-faceted player. He's a very good shot blocker, rebounder and at least is capable on offense. He was injured so he shouldn't be over scrutinized with his post-injury performance so much. I think he's got much more potential as a center, and it's not even close.
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Obekpa could block shots like a pro but his defense as a whole was less than impressive. Guards regularly took the ball into his body when they drove the lane, and even mediocre forwards/centers on BE teams torched him in the post.
CO was an elite weak side and help defender. But guarding his own responsibility was a different story.
As for Sima, we'll have to wait and see. I'm definitely not ready to give up on him yet... but if Brown is as good as advertised I have no issue with him taking the starting spot next season.
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
Both have 3 years remaining. If they don't make the league, gotta think it's on the staff
I remember reading a publication that mentioned there was a possibility that Mussini may not come here as NBA teams were giving him a look. So we went 1-17 in league play with 3 NBA players on our roster? Its either on the staff, or just maybe we should curb our enthusiasm. There is potential for Sima and KY no question, but until we actually see it, they are not currently NBA material. It's hard to get there. That doesn't mean they will not be great college players for us or develop into future pro's.
Exactly. Huge potential. But if it's not realized, who is to blame? 4 years to harness that potential
Remember Wayne McKoy? Huge potential but he never realized all the hype. Was that Looies fault?
Before my time
Cop out. ;) The point is you can't put the development of kids solely on the coaching staff. BTW, McKoy was the 2nd ranked prospect coming out of LuHi but he peaked in HS and was schooled by your very own Jeff Ruland who was nowhere near as well regarded coming out of HS.
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
Both have 3 years remaining. If they don't make the league, gotta think it's on the staff
I remember reading a publication that mentioned there was a possibility that Mussini may not come here as NBA teams were giving him a look. So we went 1-17 in league play with 3 NBA players on our roster? Its either on the staff, or just maybe we should curb our enthusiasm. There is potential for Sima and KY no question, but until we actually see it, they are not currently NBA material. It's hard to get there. That doesn't mean they will not be great college players for us or develop into future pro's.
Exactly. Huge potential. But if it's not realized, who is to blame? 4 years to harness that potential
Remember Wayne McKoy? Huge potential but he never realized all the hype. Was that Looies fault?
Before my time
Cop out. ;) The point is you can't put the development of kids solely on the coaching staff. BTW, McKoy was the 2nd ranked prospect coming out of LuHi but he peaked in HS and was schooled by your very own Jeff Ruland who was nowhere near as well regarded coming out of HS.
So you're saying McKoy didn't improve in his time at St John's?
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Sima has potential. But I remember being absolutely wowed by Obekpa his first season. People have short memories.
Wow'd by one thing: his shot blocking. It was the best Ive ever seen but other than that he did nothing well, espically as a freshmen. I'm not saying you couldn't win big with CO as your center, I just prefer Sima. He is bigger, better offensively, and he has some semblance of consciousness when he has the ball. He may not be the best shot blocker ive ever seen but 2.5 a game as a freshmen is about as close to that as you could be.
Obekpa was a better rebounder and shot blocker. He also redirected so many shots, he was one of the better defensive players in college basketball. The "potential" was much higher for Obekpa than Sima after their perspective freshman year. We just know what happened with Obekpa. I don't think any of us thought he wouldn't improve at all over the course of his time here. Look at Noah for the Knicks. He has had a pretty good NBA career and his offense is non-existent. I think Brown will take minutes away form Sima from day 1 unless Sima shows significant improvement. Talent doesn't go 1-17 in league play.
Noah is consistently one of the best passing bigmen in the league. And if you want to look at his collegiate career their offense couldn't have been further apart. I think Sima has as much "potential" as any big ive seen at sju in the past 10-15 years.
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Not trying to rain on the parade, sima will be a good 4 year player. But he is slow. Really slow. Who is he guarding in the NBA?
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With Obekpa in the middle SJU had a 4 man offense. Other than the putback dunk he was useless on offense, could not pass, could not shoot (mastered the linedrive), could not make a free throw. A poor rebounder who did not box out. He was awful. Even if he blocked 5 a game he was the team anchor. A breathing Sima is bound to be much better, could not be any worse. Why are we even discussing this guy? Tough to win 4 on 5.
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Not trying to rain on the parade, sima will be a good 4 year player. But he is slow. Really slow. Who is he guarding in the NBA?
Really slow for a 6'11 center?
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Not trying to rain on the parade, sima will be a good 4 year player. But he is slow. Really slow. Who is he guarding in the NBA?
Who is he guarding in college? He's uncoordinated. That's the part that everyone keeps leaving out. Hopefully, he works harder than Obekpa did, and he takes the game more seriously than he did.
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Not trying to rain on the parade, sima will be a good 4 year player. But he is slow. Really slow. Who is he guarding in the NBA?
Who is he guarding in college? He's uncoordinated. That's the part that everyone keeps leaving out. Hopefully, he works harder than Obekpa did, and he takes the game more seriously than he did.
He is neither slow nor uncoordinated for a young 7 footer. I think you are describing Curtis Johnson. Sima's offensive game is raw but, with added strength, he will be a fine defensive Center.
But he's also not a real NBA prospect at this time.
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Not trying to rain on the parade, sima will be a good 4 year player. But he is slow. Really slow. Who is he guarding in the NBA?
Who is he guarding in college? He's uncoordinated. That's the part that everyone keeps leaving out. Hopefully, he works harder than Obekpa did, and he takes the game more seriously than he did.
He is neither slow nor uncoordinated for a young 7 footer. I think you are describing Curtis Johnson. Sima's offensive game is raw but, with added strength, he will be a fine defensive Center.
But he's also not a real NBA prospect at this time.
Neither was Mvouika
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Not trying to rain on the parade, sima will be a good 4 year player. But he is slow. Really slow. Who is he guarding in the NBA?
Who is he guarding in college? He's uncoordinated. That's the part that everyone keeps leaving out. Hopefully, he works harder than Obekpa did, and he takes the game more seriously than he did.
He is neither slow nor uncoordinated for a young 7 footer. I think you are describing Curtis Johnson. Sima's offensive game is raw but, with added strength, he will be a fine defensive Center.
But he's also not a real NBA prospect at this time.
Neither was Mvouika
Still isn't.
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Not trying to rain on the parade, sima will be a good 4 year player. But he is slow. Really slow. Who is he guarding in the NBA?
Who is he guarding in college? He's uncoordinated. That's the part that everyone keeps leaving out. Hopefully, he works harder than Obekpa did, and he takes the game more seriously than he did.
He is neither slow nor uncoordinated for a young 7 footer. I think you are describing Curtis Johnson. Sima's offensive game is raw but, with added strength, he will be a fine defensive Center.
But he's also not a real NBA prospect at this time.
Neither was Mvouika
Still isn't.
Agreed on that
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Both Sima and KY will play in the league
D-League?
Both have 3 years remaining. If they don't make the league, gotta think it's on the staff
I remember reading a publication that mentioned there was a possibility that Mussini may not come here as NBA teams were giving him a look. So we went 1-17 in league play with 3 NBA players on our roster? Its either on the staff, or just maybe we should curb our enthusiasm. There is potential for Sima and KY no question, but until we actually see it, they are not currently NBA material. It's hard to get there. That doesn't mean they will not be great college players for us or develop into future pro's.
Exactly. Huge potential. But if it's not realized, who is to blame? 4 years to harness that potential
Remember Wayne McKoy? Huge potential but he never realized all the hype. Was that Looies fault?
Before my time
Cop out. ;) The point is you can't put the development of kids solely on the coaching staff. BTW, McKoy was the 2nd ranked prospect coming out of LuHi but he peaked in HS and was schooled by your very own Jeff Ruland who was nowhere near as well regarded coming out of HS.
So you're saying McKoy didn't improve in his time at St John's?
The vast majority of players improve to some degree. I'm saying Wayne didn't live up to the hype that surrounded him in HS. His numbers went up after his frosh year and then were consistent for his last three seasons. Actually, I'd be very happy if either KY or YS matched his production which was 14/7. Again it's really hard to quantify how much a coaching staff can improve a player and how much of it is due to just their game and body maturing. If KY and YS don't make the league it's not on the staff.
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Anyone have any insight as to whether Zach will sign during the early signing period?
Thanks in advance.
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Anyone have any insight as to whether Zach will sign during the early signing period?
Thanks in advance.
I thought I recall reading that he would. But I'm on a lot of cold medication, so...
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Anyone have any insight as to whether Zach will sign during the early signing period?
Thanks in advance.
Tomorrow
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http://www.zagsblog.com/2016/10/28/st-johns-commit-zach-brown-transfers-schools-expected-sign-november/
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Manhattan, NY
St John's has received the NLI from four-star Miami center Zach Brown, im told #sjubb
Per Zach
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Manhattan, NY
St John's has received the NLI from four-star Miami center Zach Brown, im told #sjubb
Per Zach
Good to hear.
Hoping for measurable improvement in 2016 and the NCAAs in 2017!
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SIgned LOI
http://www.redstormsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/110916aab.html
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Zach Brown's attorney: "Legal issues have not yet completely been resolved, but they are heading in a positive direction." #sjubb
Per Zach Brown
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Is everybody still confident this kid will be eligible when he arrives on campus? Honest question
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Staff is confident from what I hear. We'll see. Perhaps we are due to prevail on something of this ilk. :)
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Staff is confident from what I hear. We'll see. Perhaps we are due to prevail on something of this ilk. :)
Thanks. Would be nice for this program to catch a break on this stuff every once in a while
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Is he playing hoops for whatever school he is at?
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did Zach ever take an official visit--if not maybe Chris can get him up for a w/e with team and a game; would love to see his stature vs Sima and Owens.
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Official press release on Zach Brown signing:
http://www.redstormsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/110916aab.html
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Brown said he choose SJU because coach Mullin overcame his own struggles and adversity n he admires that
"He knows what I've been through"
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Brown said he choose SJU because coach Mullin overcame his own struggles and adversity n he admires that
"He knows what I've been through"
That doesn't make any sense, but if it worked, great.
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Brown said he choose SJU because coach Mullin overcame his own struggles and adversity n he admires that
"He knows what I've been through"
That doesn't make any sense, but if it worked, great.
He was an alcoholic.
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Brown said he choose SJU because coach Mullin overcame his own struggles and adversity n he admires that
"He knows what I've been through"
That doesn't make any sense, but if it worked, great.
He was an alcoholic.
Poison in denial.
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Brown had 14 points in 16 minutes in one sided win yesterday. Guy covering game on Twitter noted his agility, deft stroke and defense. Not sure of competition, but just passing it on.
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Brown had 14 points in 16 minutes in one sided win yesterday. Guy covering game on Twitter noted his agility, deft stroke and defense. Not sure of competition, but just passing it on.
Can you imagine the team we have already this year with our height and athleticism adding a 7'2" top 40 big man?? Sima and Owens will look small next to him. Gonna be beastly if he suits up next year.
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Article
zach smart – @zsmart3
Jack leads Calusa to victory, SJU-commit Zach Brown says his troubles are over
http://zsmart.blogspot.com/2016/11/nathaniel-jacks-up-calusa-in-acd-victory.html …
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"He opened up to me and I opened up to him. knows what I've been through. I can't just go with anyone who can say, 'Ok you've been through this, you've been through that.' He talked to me about what his situation was and I felt it was similar to me. Ever since we've had a great relationship."
Brown cited SJU assistant Matt Abdelmassih as another major figure in his support system. Both he and De La Grana have been instrumental in helping him keep his focus and continue on as the reformed Zach Brown.
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Saying his troubles are over has me concerned. Turning your life around is an ongoing process and I hope he realizes this and continues on the right path.
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St John's checking in on signee Zach Brown today in Miami #sjubb - Per Zach
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The thing I like about Brown is he seems to keep the ball up. Someone taught him well.
https://twitter.com/hoop_mia/status/801077885322874880
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Dinks it's great to have you back. Can't wait for Brown...and Clarke
...and Simon.
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Simon yes Clarke questions about his wheels and Brown not a high riser and slow afoot
You might say he pulling a wagon
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Simon yes Clarke questions about his wheels and Brown not a high riser and slow afoot
You might say he pulling a wagon
Eh. If his back to the basket skills can translate to the college level I could care less if he's a "high riser." Lavin loved the high risers.
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Simon yes Clarke questions about his wheels and Brown not a high riser and slow afoot
You might say he pulling a wagon
Eh. If his back to the basket skills can translate to the college level I could care less if he's a "high riser." Lavin loved the high risers.
Was the double entendre intentional or unintentional?
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The thing I like about Brown is he seems to keep the ball up. Someone taught him well.
https://twitter.com/hoop_mia/status/801077885322874880
Absolutely MJ, even in his videos from 2 years ago he always seems to keep it high. Great place to start. Especially with a 7 footer who isnt a stiff athletically.
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Simon yes Clarke questions about his wheels and Brown not a high riser and slow afoot
You might say he pulling a wagon
Eh. If his back to the basket skills can translate to the college level I could care less if he's a "high riser." Lavin loved the high risers.
Was the double entendre intentional or unintentional?
Sometimes luck is better than skill?
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Simon yes Clarke questions about his wheels and Brown not a high riser and slow afoot
You might say he pulling a wagon
Clark hasn't had any foot injuries for a while. Pretty sure that's resolved. Zachary Brown isn't all that slow for a 7'2" kid. He's gonna be tough to defend if he gets the ball down low.
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Will he be eligible though?
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Will he be eligible though?
I've wondered the same. I think he can help us next season, if he's able to play.
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We need a true BIG MAN, someone who can post up in the paint, play with their back to the rim, and get some points for us down low -bonus if he can draw fouls and get to the line...
We have the PG to get him the rock... Let's just pray he has the grades and ability...
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Per Zach Smart
Zach Brown is averaging 15PPG and 13RPG and steadily improving conditioning and evolving right hand. SJU commit is Focused
4:24 PM - 27 Nov 2016
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Does anyone understand the vaguaries of NCAA eligibility, and willing to explain it?
In relation to Brown, of course...
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I wish the NCAA would tell these young guys while see in high school they have to complete this course and not wait for the kid to enroll in a college and then tell them they cant play
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Does anyone understand the vaguaries of NCAA eligibility, and willing to explain it?
In relation to Brown, of course...
With Zach it's pretty simple: he's been to four high schools and has been arrested. It's never a good sign to attend numerous high schools, as it complicates the certification process with classes that may have overlapping content that won't count towards the required 16 core classes. E.g., one school might have a stand-alone algebra course while another might include algebra and geometry. Completing both courses would likely only yield only one credit in the transcript evaluation.
Additionally, each student-athlete has to graduate and earn a qualifying SAT or ACT score and qualifying GPA (sliding scale) before they can be eligible. Zach's past, though, makes him ripe for rumors that he won't meet those conditions.
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I know pretty much the entire NCAA enforcement and eligibility departments. They are all good people who are accessible and resourceful. Unfortunately it's about 8 people total for every sport across the country.
Marillac did a pretty solid job explaining the basics of the root of most problems. Standards of classes from school to school is difficult. It doesn't help when a kid goes from all C's to straight A's in his next school taking more difficult classes. Additionally some of these kids attend schools that aren't recognized by the NCAA which is really a travesty and bad guidance from adults in their life.
I think Zach will be ok but might take a bit to verify everything from the NCAA like it did with Yakwe.
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I know pretty much the entire NCAA enforcement and eligibility departments. They are all good people who are accessible and resourceful. Unfortunately it's about 8 people total for every sport across the country.
Marillac did a pretty solid job explaining the basics of the root of most problems. Standards of classes from school to school is difficult. It doesn't help when a kid goes from all C's to straight A's in his next school taking more difficult classes. Additionally some of these kids attend schools that aren't recognized by the NCAA which is really a travesty and bad guidance from adults in their life.
I think Zach will be ok but might take a bit to verify everything from the NCAA like it did with Yakwe.
We got lucky with Yakwe thanks to Kansas getting a law firm involved in the Diallo situation which was similar to Yakwe and why the NCAA finally cleared him.
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I know pretty much the entire NCAA enforcement and eligibility departments. They are all good people who are accessible and resourceful. Unfortunately it's about 8 people total for every sport across the country.
Marillac did a pretty solid job explaining the basics of the root of most problems. Standards of classes from school to school is difficult. It doesn't help when a kid goes from all C's to straight A's in his next school taking more difficult classes. Additionally some of these kids attend schools that aren't recognized by the NCAA which is really a travesty and bad guidance from adults in their life.
I think Zach will be ok but might take a bit to verify everything from the NCAA like it did with Yakwe.
It begs the question, for such a large, powerful and rich organization, why is this department only staffed by 8 people? Why are kids careers hanging in the balance because the NCAA doesn't want to staff the department? It isn't lack of resources. I'm trying to figure this one out.
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I know pretty much the entire NCAA enforcement and eligibility departments. They are all good people who are accessible and resourceful. Unfortunately it's about 8 people total for every sport across the country.
Marillac did a pretty solid job explaining the basics of the root of most problems. Standards of classes from school to school is difficult. It doesn't help when a kid goes from all C's to straight A's in his next school taking more difficult classes. Additionally some of these kids attend schools that aren't recognized by the NCAA which is really a travesty and bad guidance from adults in their life.
I think Zach will be ok but might take a bit to verify everything from the NCAA like it did with Yakwe.
It begs the question, for such a large, powerful and rich organization, why is this department only staffed by 8 people? Why are kids careers hanging in the balance because the NCAA doesn't want to staff the department? It isn't lack of resources. I'm trying to figure this one out.
To be fair to the NCAA they were forced to allocate a great percentage of their resources to their investigation of the Lamar University men's golf program. Because you have to have priorities.
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I know pretty much the entire NCAA enforcement and eligibility departments. They are all good people who are accessible and resourceful. Unfortunately it's about 8 people total for every sport across the country.
Marillac did a pretty solid job explaining the basics of the root of most problems. Standards of classes from school to school is difficult. It doesn't help when a kid goes from all C's to straight A's in his next school taking more difficult classes. Additionally some of these kids attend schools that aren't recognized by the NCAA which is really a travesty and bad guidance from adults in their life.
I think Zach will be ok but might take a bit to verify everything from the NCAA like it did with Yakwe.
It begs the question, for such a large, powerful and rich organization, why is this department only staffed by 8 people? Why are kids careers hanging in the balance because the NCAA doesn't want to staff the department? It isn't lack of resources. I'm trying to figure this one out.
Because the NCAA is one of the dumbest, most corrupt organizations in the country. The execs wouldn't consider taking money out of their own pockets by hiring more help. Only they are allowed to make money in this process
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St. John's checking in on signee Zach Brown today in Miami. #sjubb
Per Zach - The man with all the inside information regarding SJU.
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St. John's checking in on signee Zach Brown today in Miami. #sjubb
Per Zach - The man with all the inside information regarding SJU.
You mean the guy that laughed at everybody mentioning Slice leaving rumors?
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That's the man - he was laughing at SJU - because he couldn't believe somebody making 500K - would do absolutely nothing for the program.
The only thing he did was tell the players where the best piazza was.
If he worked one tenth as hard as Matt - maybe we could have recruited better players.
How can one man be in a hundred places.
They need another assistant coach to help them recruit.
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St. John's checking in on signee Zach Brown today in Miami. #sjubb
Per Zach - The man with all the inside information regarding SJU.
You mean the guy that laughed at everybody mentioning Slice leaving rumors?
Was he also the same guy saying Lavin was getting extension?
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Yeah he was the guy that said Richardson was the steal of the draft - he was right - of the top scorers in the D-League.
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I know pretty much the entire NCAA enforcement and eligibility departments. They are all good people who are accessible and resourceful. Unfortunately it's about 8 people total for every sport across the country.
Marillac did a pretty solid job explaining the basics of the root of most problems. Standards of classes from school to school is difficult. It doesn't help when a kid goes from all C's to straight A's in his next school taking more difficult classes. Additionally some of these kids attend schools that aren't recognized by the NCAA which is really a travesty and bad guidance from adults in their life.
I think Zach will be ok but might take a bit to verify everything from the NCAA like it did with Yakwe.
It begs the question, for such a large, powerful and rich organization, why is this department only staffed by 8 people? Why are kids careers hanging in the balance because the NCAA doesn't want to staff the department? It isn't lack of resources. I'm trying to figure this one out.
Because the NCAA is one of the dumbest, most corrupt organizations in the country. The execs wouldn't consider taking money out of their own pockets by hiring more help. Only they are allowed to make money in this process
Correct. They are a major group of disingenuous sc@mbags.
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Has not been playing lately for his school, Calusa Prep.
Very shaky, tenuous situation IMO from beginning, but worth the shot.
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That sounds good. A kid who has a pending criminal case , and has already transferred to numerous high schools isn't playing in games.
I'm sure it's for a good reason. Probably has a sick relative.
Zach is throwing away a golden ticket. He's a 7ft basketball phenom. Take control of your life man!
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Sounds like time to move on to me
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Sounds like time to move on to me
Yeah so he can end up at Iona. ;) :)
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If it doesn't pan out it doesn't pan out. Hope he gets his life together first honestly.
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Maybe why we are recruiting hard for 17' lately? I hope not because I'd like to see a big guy like him here, but who knows. I'm sure the staff does. Hopefully nothing?!?
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I don't have much of a pulse on situation here but if he works out it's gravy. If he doesn't in good with plenty in '18. The '17 class is very weak imo. Then again '16 class was so loaded so hard for '17 to live up to that.
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I don't have much of a pulse on situation here but if he works out it's gravy. If he doesn't in good with plenty in '18. The '17 class is very weak imo. Then again '16 class was so loaded so hard for '17 to live up to that.
I don't understand how a team without a center can look at Brown like his addition is gravy. Team needs to find a Tyrone Grant type bad. That kid from USF is gravy. A big man is a clear necessity.
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I don't have much of a pulse on situation here but if he works out it's gravy. If he doesn't in good with plenty in '18. The '17 class is very weak imo. Then again '16 class was so loaded so hard for '17 to live up to that.
I don't understand how a team without a center can look at Brown like his addition is gravy. Team needs to find a Tyrone Grant type bad. That kid from USF is gravy. A big man is a clear necessity.
Agreed. Especially with Yakwe looking lost so far this year.
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I don't have much of a pulse on situation here but if he works out it's gravy. If he doesn't in good with plenty in '18. The '17 class is very weak imo. Then again '16 class was so loaded so hard for '17 to live up to that.
I don't understand how a team without a center can look at Brown like his addition is gravy. Team needs to find a Tyrone Grant type bad. That kid from USF is gravy. A big man is a clear necessity.
How many true centers can you name in college basketball? Game is changing. I'm cool with rolling with Owens, Yakwe, Williams, Amar, Clark in the front court.
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I don't have much of a pulse on situation here but if he works out it's gravy. If he doesn't in good with plenty in '18. The '17 class is very weak imo. Then again '16 class was so loaded so hard for '17 to live up to that.
I don't understand how a team without a center can look at Brown like his addition is gravy. Team needs to find a Tyrone Grant type bad. That kid from USF is gravy. A big man is a clear necessity.
How many true centers can you name in college basketball? Game is changing. I'm cool with rolling with Owens, Yakwe, Williams, Amar, Clark in the front court.
Agree re centers. However, playing devil's advocate here, these are the issues with the guys which you listed:
Owens: rail thin and can get pushed around by stronger bodies
Yakwe: struggling and perhaps even regressing
Williams: injury history
Amar: limited skill set
Clark: knock on him at MSU was his defense in the post
Again, those are just the negatives, but we need another big (and not just serviceable) body. Ideally need a 5th year guy like Livingston (who, by the way, is 13 ppg, 5 rebounds per, 2 assists per for Texas Tech so far), but without the cop assault/mental hospital visit in his background.
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I don't have much of a pulse on situation here but if he works out it's gravy. If he doesn't in good with plenty in '18. The '17 class is very weak imo. Then again '16 class was so loaded so hard for '17 to live up to that.
I don't understand how a team without a center can look at Brown like his addition is gravy. Team needs to find a Tyrone Grant type bad. That kid from USF is gravy. A big man is a clear necessity.
How many true centers can you name in college basketball? Game is changing. I'm cool with rolling with Owens, Yakwe, Williams, Amar, Clark in the front court.
Agree re centers. However, playing devil's advocate here, these are the issues with the guys which you listed:
Owens: rail thin and can get pushed around by stronger bodies
Yakwe: struggling and perhaps even regressing
Williams: injury history
Amar: limited skill set
Clark: knock on him at MSU was his defense in the post
Again, those are just the negatives, but we need another big (and not just serviceable) body. Ideally need a 5th year guy like Livingston (who, by the way, is 13 ppg, 5 rebounds per, 2 assists per for Texas Tech so far), but without the cop assault/mental hospital visit in his background.
This is where I think losing Sima hurt. I agree with everything you said above but it's not as prohibitive as lack of guard play would be. However 2018 has much better crop Naz Reid, Bol Bol (i think this has become less likely), Moses Brown. Some other guys not recruiting but I'd look into KJ Hymes, Valdir Manuel, Marcus Littles, Connor Vanover, but probably a transfer/juco at that point would be more likely. Keep in mind need to keep scholarship balance.
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I don't have much of a pulse on situation here but if he works out it's gravy. If he doesn't in good with plenty in '18. The '17 class is very weak imo. Then again '16 class was so loaded so hard for '17 to live up to that.
I don't understand how a team without a center can look at Brown like his addition is gravy. Team needs to find a Tyrone Grant type bad. That kid from USF is gravy. A big man is a clear necessity.
How many true centers can you name in college basketball? Game is changing. I'm cool with rolling with Owens, Yakwe, Williams, Amar, Clark in the front court.
The last 5 national championship winning teams have had a true college center
2016 Villanova - Ochefu
2015 Duke - Okafor
2014 Yukon - Nolan/Brimah
2013 Louisville - Dieng
2012 Kentucky - Anthony Davis
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Send Owens and Yakwe to big man camp and give them plenty of muscle milk. Yakwe has potential, but may not live up to it and transfer is possibility. Bash, Clark, Williams at the 4 is good. But like many said, Williams is injury prone. The other 2, good, but undersized Then one has to factor in injury. I would feel better w another big. One could argue we have Amar and Freud. I have been disappointed w them, although Freud is young, both seem to fancy themselves as 3s instead of real post players.
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pizza, supplements and the weight room daily for Owens, Yakwe.....for the whole team with Ahmed and Amar getting a pass
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You need another space eating big who can rebound if you want to be a top 25 team in the next year or two.
A 6'10+ bull is just what the Johnnies need.
Sure you can get by without one but look at all the big boys, Duke, UCLA, UK, UNC, KU, all have multiple big bodies.
I think Nova's downfall in the tourney this year will be the lack of a true big ie Ochefu.
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I don't have much of a pulse on situation here but if he works out it's gravy. If he doesn't in good with plenty in '18. The '17 class is very weak imo. Then again '16 class was so loaded so hard for '17 to live up to that.
I don't understand how a team without a center can look at Brown like his addition is gravy. Team needs to find a Tyrone Grant type bad. That kid from USF is gravy. A big man is a clear necessity.
How many true centers can you name in college basketball? Game is changing. I'm cool with rolling with Owens, Yakwe, Williams, Amar, Clark in the front court.
Agree re centers. However, playing devil's advocate here, these are the issues with the guys which you listed:
Owens: rail thin and can get pushed around by stronger bodies
Yakwe: struggling and perhaps even regressing
Williams: injury history
Amar: limited skill set
Clark: knock on him at MSU was his defense in the post
Again, those are just the negatives, but we need another big (and not just serviceable) body. Ideally need a 5th year guy like Livingston (who, by the way, is 13 ppg, 5 rebounds per, 2 assists per for Texas Tech so far), but without the cop assault/mental hospital visit in his background.
This is where I think losing Sima hurt. I agree with everything you said above but it's not as prohibitive as lack of guard play would be. However 2018 has much better crop Naz Reid, Bol Bol (i think this has become less likely), Moses Brown. Some other guys not recruiting but I'd look into KJ Hymes, Valdir Manuel, Marcus Littles, Connor Vanover, but probably a transfer/juco at that point would be more likely. Keep in mind need to keep scholarship balance.
Very true. Having one of our current guys develop very well by April, and a winning season, is probably going to help with the 2018 bigs
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For some reason people think these 6'9 240lb "bull" -type players are easy to come by. They're not.
Ty Grant and Rico Gathers don't grow on trees.
Hell, Justin Burrell type players are hard to find.
And when you think you're getting one they end up like God's Gift or Orlando Sanchez and universally disappoint.
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For some reason people think these 6'9 240lb "bull" -type players are easy to come by. They're not.
Ty Grant and Rico Gathers don't grow on trees.
Hell, Justin Burrell type players are hard to find.
And when you think you're getting one they end up like God's Gift or Orlando Sanchez and universally disappoint.
I don't think anyone is saying they're easy to come by but they are definitely out there. Just go through every Power conf roster in the country and I'm sure you'll see plenty of them.
With our current roster, we just need one of them, two at most.
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Have to think out of the box, G Thompson found big burly guys in the 80s who were often older and had not been to college. Look at the Services teams and you may find one or more who are experienced and big and would be a mature man among boys. Would love to see a 27 year old 6'8'' 250LB power forward. We a need big, mean spaceeater
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We sure could use Zack for next year. But, at this point if he is a partial qualifier like Lovett, I wouldn't complain.
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We sure could use Zack for next year. But, at this point if he is a partial qualifier like Lovett, I wouldn't complain.
Wouldn't count on that either.
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We sure could use Zack for next year. But, at this point if he is a partial qualifier like Lovett, I wouldn't complain.
Wouldn't count on that either.
Unfortunately, ditto.
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Is Matt targeting any bigs other than Carter?
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Next year, we have Owens coming back. AA and Williams both have eligibility left., We have done well with role playing, upperclassmen bigs historically. Ron Stewart; Donald Emanuel; Justin Brownlee, etc. Owens, AA and Williams could blend nicely, but we do need that complimentary 6'-8"+ nose for the ball rebounder who picks up points in the paint.
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Next year, we have Owens coming back. AA and Williams both have eligibility left., We have done well with role playing, upperclassmen bigs historically. Ron Stewart; Donald Emanuel; Justin Brownlee, etc. Owens, AA and Williams could blend nicely, but we do need that complimentary 6'-8"+ nose for the ball rebounder who picks up points in the paint.
Hard to count on Williams. Although I am happy w his game lately. He is very injury prone. AA not much of a post player. We need a junkyard dog. But gotta figure Matt will have that covered.
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Next year, we have Owens coming back. AA and Williams both have eligibility left., We have done well with role playing, upperclassmen bigs historically. Ron Stewart; Donald Emanuel; Justin Brownlee, etc. Owens, AA and Williams could blend nicely, but we do need that complimentary 6'-8"+ nose for the ball rebounder who picks up points in the paint.
A 5th year transfer
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You guys are both right. A junkyard dog with a lot to play for.
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http://slaterscoops.com/news/2017/1/9/exclusive-st-johns-star-hoops-recruit-arrested-again-accused-of-robbing-walgreens
We should probably start recruiting a different big man.
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http://slaterscoops.com/news/2017/1/9/exclusive-st-johns-star-hoops-recruit-arrested-again-accused-of-robbing-walgreens
We should probably start recruiting a different big man.
Wow...... Yeah think it's time to cut ties....
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http://slaterscoops.com/news/2017/1/9/exclusive-st-johns-star-hoops-recruit-arrested-again-accused-of-robbing-walgreens
We should probably start recruiting a different big man.
Wow...... Yeah think it's time to cut ties....
Dang, man! Hopefully, the kid gets some help, and can eventually turn his life around and become a productive citizen. The hell with basketball for the foreseeable future. Just get himself together. Otherwise, he's gonna find himself in prison for a long time.
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You play with fire and you get burned.
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Probably a blessing in disguise for the program. If we had got him on campus and he did something like this we would have had a huge issue. Time to cut ties for sure.
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Although they are from different clases I now expect Moses Brown even more a priority.
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Staff gave the kid the benefit of the doubt...But now it's time to move on. Hopefully the kid gets some help.
Basketball wise...Glad this happened now. We can move on and the speculation of being eligible is a non factor.
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A lot of wasted recruiting hours on this nice person
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More from Matt A via Zach B: "Odds were already long for Zach Brown to get to St. John's, with previous arrest and academic situation. Seems far-fetched now"
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
Slice's fault
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
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This is disappointing to say the least. It's sad that it seemed like he was so close to turning his life around.
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Go into the JUCO ranks and get some big men there. Solid players to compliment your roster. Stop chasing these checkered players.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
I'd 100% recruit a talent like Brown over and over again. The risk was worth the reward. New staff, limited time, this was a must. Almost worked too.
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Next year, we have Owens coming back. AA and Williams both have eligibility left., We have done well with role playing, upperclassmen bigs historically. Ron Stewart; Donald Emanuel; Justin Brownlee, etc. Owens, AA and Williams could blend nicely, but we do need that complimentary 6'-8"+ nose for the ball rebounder who picks up points in the paint.
You're forgetting about Clark
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
I'd 100% recruit a talent like Brown over and over again. The risk was worth the reward. New staff, limited time, this was a must. Almost worked too.
fair enough. just hoping that we get more bonzie colsons going forward than Anthony livingstons and Zach browns
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
ND has landed NINE four star ranked kids in past 4 years and has had the same head coach for past 16 years. C'mon lets be realistic here.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
Yeah how much could he have gotten from Walgreen? They are closing left and right. CVS would have been smarter choice
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
ND has landed NINE four star ranked kids in past 4 years and has had the same head coach for past 16 years. C'mon lets be realistic here.
Not to mention ND is indeed a top 50 program over the last 10 years or so.
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Next year, we have Owens coming back. AA and Williams both have eligibility left., We have done well with role playing, upperclassmen bigs historically. Ron Stewart; Donald Emanuel; Justin Brownlee, etc. Owens, AA and Williams could blend nicely, but we do need that complimentary 6'-8"+ nose for the ball rebounder who picks up points in the paint.
You're forgetting about Clark
How good is Clark Jr? What's his game?
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
Yeah how much could he have gotten from Walgreen? They are closing left and right. CVS would have been smarter choice
Ya no one would notice a 6'10 kid stuffing his pockets
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
ND has landed NINE four star ranked kids in past 4 years and has had the same head coach for past 16 years. C'mon lets be realistic here.
I am talking about the big men only, Dave. Here's who Brey hasnabbed in the past 4 years at the 4/5 (BTW, yes Brey has had very good results and a track record, but also the disadvantages of some of the worst hoops facilities in major conference hoops during his time and a campus in the middle of nowheresville):
Mooney - got him after he decomitted from Florida when Donovan bailed. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Burns - got him over BC, the Hall and Rhody. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Geben - got him over Maryland, Miami. He was seen as a 3 star by some, 4 by others.
Colson - got him over FSU, Minnesota, Iowa St. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Burgett - got him over Cincy and Iowa. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Torres - got him over Lamar and Navy. 1 star recruit. Package deal with Demetris Jackson.
Auguste - got him over WVU, GTech, Florida, Marquette. He was seen as a 4 star by most people.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
Yeah how much could he have gotten from Walgreen? They are closing left and right. CVS would have been smarter choice
Ya no one would notice a 6'10 kid stuffing his pockets
He was thinking too small, go big or go home
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The kid Patton, who just lit us up for 25&9 had one scholarship offer. There are others like him, Mullin just has to find them. There are still 4 star big men out there.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
Yeah how much could he have gotten from Walgreen? They are closing left and right. CVS would have been smarter choice
Ya no one would notice a 6'10 kid stuffing his pockets
He was thinking too small, go big or go home
Maybe he was stealing tighty whiteys, like that Cowboy running back a few years back
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
Yeah how much could he have gotten from Walgreen? They are closing left and right. CVS would have been smarter choice
Ya no one would notice a 6'10 kid stuffing his pockets
He was thinking too small, go big or go home
Maybe he was stealing tighty whiteys, like that Cowboy running back a few years back
I don't want anyone on the team that gets their underwear at Walgreen!
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So your 7 feet tall, and you think hey I can just reach over take the cash and run away and no one will
be able to identify you , And than you jump into your unregistered car with the broken window and you drive
off using your suspended license.. Are you really that f'kin stupid?
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
I'd 100% recruit a talent like Brown over and over again. The risk was worth the reward. New staff, limited time, this was a must. Almost worked too.
Sure the risk was worth it now, but how about if he committed this or some other crime 2 days before next year starts. And that would always be a possibility with this kid. Can't wait until we get to the point where we don't have to take this big of a chance
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
I'd 100% recruit a talent like Brown over and over again. The risk was worth the reward. New staff, limited time, this was a must. Almost worked too.
Sure the risk was worth it now, but how about if he committed this or some other crime 2 days before next year starts. And that would always be a possibility with this kid. Can't wait until we get to the point where we don't have to take this big of a chance
Hey, James Felton committed his crime in the SJU locker room. Tradition! :)
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What happened to his "brothers" dad? Thought he was handling everything. I guess they can follow up on that video that showed all the hurdles that Zach had to over come with the help of his adoptive family and show how it all broke down.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
I'd 100% recruit a talent like Brown over and over again. The risk was worth the reward. New staff, limited time, this was a must. Almost worked too.
Sure the risk was worth it now, but how about if he committed this or some other crime 2 days before next year starts. And that would always be a possibility with this kid. Can't wait until we get to the point where we don't have to take this big of a chance
Hey, James Felton committed his crime in the SJU locker room. Tradition! :)
I thinking about that. What a stupid stupid thing to do. And for what? A bag of chips? Things change, but my how they stay the same.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
I'd 100% recruit a talent like Brown over and over again. The risk was worth the reward. New staff, limited time, this was a must. Almost worked too.
Sure the risk was worth it now, but how about if he committed this or some other crime 2 days before next year starts. And that would always be a possibility with this kid. Can't wait until we get to the point where we don't have to take this big of a chance
Hey, James Felton committed his crime in the SJU locker room. Tradition! :)
Whose sneakers and t shirts did he steal? Wild guess - Milos Dumic
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Good riddance, would probably never qualify anyway. Get after the Molloy boy Moses Brown.
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This is disappointing to say the least. It's sad that it seemed like he was so close to turning his life around.
Yeah, what he go, 9 months between reported felonies?
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The kid Patton, who just lit us up for 25&9 had one scholarship offer. There are others like him, Mullin just has to find them. There are still 4 star big men out there.
Justin Patton was the #24 recruit in the country by Scout and #45 by Rivals. He is arguably the biggest recruit to ever choose Creighton.
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Unfortunately, we know how his story will likely end up. He now has to prove himself in a JUCO and faces a major uphill climb.
For us, we have clarity on the situation in January instead of the summer. The only thing to do is land a grad transfer with size or (plan b) a JUCO. Our front court situation could very well work itself out with the addition of Clark, 25 pounds on Owens, and the second year versions of RF and Ahmed. BUT we are....
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Unfortunately, we know how his story will likely end up. He now has to prove himself in a JUCO and faces a major uphill climb.
For us, we have clarity on the situation in January instead of the summer. The only thing to do is land a grad transfer with size or (plan b) a JUCO. Our front court situation could very well work itself out with the addition of Clark, 25 pounds on Owens, and the second year versions of RF and Ahmed. BUT we are....
All that, plus maybe a light goes on for Yakwe and things finally start to click for him Jr year. Stranger things have happened
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Unfortunately, we know how his story will likely end up. He now has to prove himself in a JUCO and faces a major uphill climb.
For us, we have clarity on the situation in January instead of the summer. The only thing to do is land a grad transfer with size or (plan b) a JUCO. Our front court situation could very well work itself out with the addition of Clark, 25 pounds on Owens, and the second year versions of RF and Ahmed. BUT we are....
All that, plus maybe a light goes on for Yakwe and things finally start to click for him Jr year. Stranger things have happened
5th year guy
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Rumor has him headed to Florida State or Columbia (Florida State Prison, West Unit or Columbia Correctional Institution)
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I think it was Felipe Lopez' gear that he helped himself to.
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Watching that video is head scratching.... Idiot.
My guess is he's and his bro have done this more than once or twice.
Good riddance... Would have been a ticking time bomb under our watch.
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The kid Patton, who just lit us up for 25&9 had one scholarship offer. There are others like him, Mullin just has to find them. There are still 4 star big men out there.
Was hurt in high school and wanted to stay home. Schools didn't bother but still a top 50 dude
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
ND has landed NINE four star ranked kids in past 4 years and has had the same head coach for past 16 years. C'mon lets be realistic here.
I am talking about the big men only, Dave. Here's who Brey hasnabbed in the past 4 years at the 4/5 (BTW, yes Brey has had very good results and a track record, but also the disadvantages of some of the worst hoops facilities in major conference hoops during his time and a campus in the middle of nowheresville):
Mooney - got him after he decomitted from Florida when Donovan bailed. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Burns - got him over BC, the Hall and Rhody. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Geben - got him over Maryland, Miami. He was seen as a 3 star by some, 4 by others.
Colson - got him over FSU, Minnesota, Iowa St. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Burgett - got him over Cincy and Iowa. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Torres - got him over Lamar and Navy. 1 star recruit. Package deal with Demetris Jackson.
Auguste - got him over WVU, GTech, Florida, Marquette. He was seen as a 4 star by most people.
So now you're saying you only need decent bigs when you have great guards?
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
Been saying this for awhile, recruit smarter kids
I'd 100% recruit a talent like Brown over and over again. The risk was worth the reward. New staff, limited time, this was a must. Almost worked too.
Sure the risk was worth it now, but how about if he committed this or some other crime 2 days before next year starts. And that would always be a possibility with this kid. Can't wait until we get to the point where we don't have to take this big of a chance
Mullin has his demons too. I respect he tried to give a kid a 2nd chance. Vincentian way
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
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Agree with Dave. The risk/reward ratio with a 5 star talent favors taking the shot on him. Unless you are losing out on another 5 or 4 star prospect by tying up that scholarship then it makes sense to take the chance
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Agree with Dave. The risk/reward ratio with a 5 star talent favors taking the shot on him. Unless you are losing out on another 5 or 4 star prospect by tying up that scholarship then it makes sense to take the chance
No Sima. No Brown. Yakwe has regressed. This team doesn't need a big man. They need three of them.
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program. Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent. Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so.
Mullin is doing the same as Lavin. It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on. The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer. They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread.
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Agree with Dave. The risk/reward ratio with a 5 star talent favors taking the shot on him. Unless you are losing out on another 5 or 4 star prospect by tying up that scholarship then it makes sense to take the chance
No Sima. No Brown. Yakwe has regressed. This team doesn't need a big man. They need three of them.
Yakwe hasn't regressed. Just lost all confidence. Simply needs to get his motor back.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
Slice's fault
That´s unfair to Matt A. Although I agree to you that Slice´s loss is bigger than many fans say.
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program. Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent. Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so.
Mullin is doing the same as Lavin. It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on. The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer. They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread.
Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program. Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent. Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so.
Mullin is doing the same as Lavin. It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on. The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer. They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread.
Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.
Rysheed Jordan.
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program. Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent. Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so.
Mullin is doing the same as Lavin. It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on. The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer. They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread.
Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.
Rysheed Jordan.
Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program. Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent. Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so.
Mullin is doing the same as Lavin. It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on. The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer. They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread.
Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.
Rysheed Jordan.
Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.
Of course Jordan was a question mark. Why don't you think Villanova recruited him in their own backyard? Lavin wasn't fired because of Jordan.
Point is you got to take risks as a coach when coaching a program that has not been good. This staff has taken some risks but has had a backup plan and a backup plan for that. I respect that.
Everyone is crying for a big yet in same breathe are complaining about a guy with pro potential flaking out before he steps on campus.
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You could argue btw Jordan was worse than Brown. Jordan was under staff's watch when nonsense was occurring. Staff can't be responsible for kid still in HS making bad decisions.
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program. Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent. Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so.
Mullin is doing the same as Lavin. It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on. The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer. They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread.
Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.
Rysheed Jordan.
Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.
Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens? If not, you proved why some of our coaches need to take chances.
Alan Iverson went to prison before Gtown. Caron Butler had a rap sheet
before Uconn and turned into a great and very charitable person.
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If the priority is recruiting good kids and not good basketball players we might as well bring Norm back
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program. Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent. Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so.
Mullin is doing the same as Lavin. It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on. The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer. They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread.
Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.
Rysheed Jordan.
Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.
Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens? If not, you proved why some of our coaches need to take chances.
Alan Iverson went to prison before Gtown. Caron Butler had a rap sheet
before Uconn and turned into a great and very charitable person.
My point isn't that we shouldn't take these chances at all, but that we should be objective when criticizing Lavin. Lavin didn't recruit kids with records. Jordan got into real trouble after he left. IMO, you take a chance on a kid like Brown knowing full well that he may never end up here, but knowing that possibility, you should also be recruiting well adjusted, hard working big men, too. The fact that Brown is the only big committed to coming here makes his recruitment even riskier. He should be the icing on the cake. Not the prize of the class.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
If Charles Manson was a 6-7 forward who could get 15-8 I 'd recruit him. Just win baby!
College athletics is a joke. Basically NBA minor leagues now but worth Billions in revenue
Even Ferret face is taking one and dones now took forever to kick a serial sexual abuser off the team and is ok with a serial tripper.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
Wow, I agreed with Bluto this week and now Poison.
If Norm could have gotten bad kids he would have taken them. He took what he could.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
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Even Ferret face is taking one and dones now took forever to kick a serial sexual abuser off the team and is ok with a serial tripper.
He suspends the kid indefinitely, losses the next game, then re-instates him. So his indefinite suspension was 1 game. What a fn joke rat face is, 7 McDonald All Americans isn't enough to win. There is no morality in college basketball, there are just coaches who are better at pretending there is.
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Even Ferret face is taking one and dones now took forever to kick a serial sexual abuser off the team and is ok with a serial tripper.
He suspends the kid indefinitely, losses the next game, then re-instates him. So his indefinite suspension was 1 game. What a fn joke rat face is, 7 McDonald All Americans isn't enough to win. There is no morality in college basketball, there are just coaches who are better at pretending there is.
Exactly, and it is not just that they pretend but writers and ESPN kiss their ass.
Rat face scolded the kid that beat them in tourney last year for not acting properly but it is ok to have a kid keep tripping other guys.
Can't wait for him to vilify the kid that finally caves in Allen's face
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Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...
They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.
It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.
The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.
From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too
I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program. Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent. Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so.
Mullin is doing the same as Lavin. It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on. The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer. They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread.
Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.
Rysheed Jordan.
Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.
Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens? If not, you proved why some of our coaches need to take chances.
Alan Iverson went to prison before Gtown. Caron Butler had a rap sheet
before Uconn and turned into a great and very charitable person.
My point isn't that we shouldn't take these chances at all, but that we should be objective when criticizing Lavin. Lavin didn't recruit kids with records. Jordan got into real trouble after he left. IMO, you take a chance on a kid like Brown knowing full well that he may never end up here, but knowing that possibility, you should also be recruiting well adjusted, hard working big men, too. The fact that Brown is the only big committed to coming here makes his recruitment even riskier. He should be the icing on the cake. Not the prize of the class.
Lavin took too many chances. Poor character kids, mixed in w academic question marks coupled w going after high quality recruits w no backup plans. Pelle, ADR, CO, Thompson, , Jordan . Plus ADR and Thompson weren't ruled ineligible until after the school year started. Putting all his eggs in the Brisque, Diallo basket. Not a recipe for success. W Brown you are only talking about one player. But I will admit he was a big need. The silver lining is its early Jan. And not Sept. before the season starts.
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When an incident happens to an sju student athlete then it is a discussion to have.
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any chance this kid makes it to campus? seems like a real talent, taking some money from a store isn't good, but he hasn't been convicted of anything and even if he is convicted/pleads to some crime, it's pretty minor. his history doesn't seems like something that would put any other students in danger (unless I'm missing something) so should still try to get him here and on the court because this team needs a big asap.
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any chance this kid makes it to campus? seems like a real talent, taking some money from a store isn't good, but he hasn't been convicted of anything and even if he is convicted/pleads to some crime, it's pretty minor. his history doesn't seems like something that would put any other students in danger (unless I'm missing something) so should still try to get him here and on the court because this team needs a big asap.
Until he starts stealing from teammates ala who was it, James Felton?
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.
To be fair, the fact that a 5 star player was only being actively recruited by a couple of schools means that there was more than just "perhaps some red flags". Everybody, including Lavin, knew there were huge question marks with him. That said, I still think Lavin did the right thing by taking that gamble
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a kid like this 1s poison, let him go
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At least we know he has quick hands.
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any chance this kid makes it to campus? seems like a real talent, taking some money from a store isn't good, but he hasn't been convicted of anything and even if he is convicted/pleads to some crime, it's pretty minor. his history doesn't seems like something that would put any other students in danger (unless I'm missing something) so should still try to get him here and on the court because this team needs a big asap.
At this point, I do not want him on the team.
After the robbery charge, I was ready to give him a second chance. But now 2x is too many chances.
He had a hard upbringing, and even admitted in the Vice documentary that he stole as a young'un to survive. When he lived with his adopted family, I guess the need to steal to survive was absent. But seems that changed when he moved back with his mother.
I wonder if, and a big IF... , he hadnt gone back to meet with his mother through the Vice documentary that he would have stayed with his adopted family and kept clean. In the doc, everyone thought he had NBA potential and his aunt seemed to resent that everyone was saying that others and not that aunt was the one that raised him. Maybe that meeting was the catalyst in Zach moving back with his moms family and the current unfortunate events. Its still on him, but what if....
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/video/the-7-foot-center-of-two-miamis
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All this is moot. They will cut bait. Brown hasn't played recently at Calusa Prep & was becoming a tough babysitting project for Matt A. They knew this was not going to end well even before he redeemed his coupons at Walgreens.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.
To be fair, the fact that a 5 star player was only being actively recruited by a couple of schools means that there was more than just "perhaps some red flags". Everybody, including Lavin, knew there were huge question marks with him. That said, I still think Lavin did the right thing by taking that gamble
Except there weren't more than just red flags. That is all there was. In fact, I recall reading articles about Jordan that shed light on how dedicated he was to taking care of his siblings.
It's easy to play Monday morning QB, but I don't recall any STJ fan calling Jordan a risk at all when he picked us.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.
So Steve Lavin recruits a player to school who you claim is a good kid and after two years under Lavin's wing the kid drops out and ends up in prison and that has nothing at all to do with Steve Lavin. That's seemingly odd, as Steve Lavin often said that there were more important things than winning and among those things especially was preparing his delicate charges for success later in life. He often said that he was a teacher first and a basketball coach second.
Question: since Steve Lavin does not deserve blame for Jordan's transformation from good kid to felon does he deserve credit for D'Angelo Harrison's transformation from angry young man to model citizen or does that have everything to do with D'Angelo Harrison?
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.
So Steve Lavin recruits a player to school who you claim is a good kid and after two years under Lavin's wing the kid drops out and ends up in prison and that has nothing at all to do with Steve Lavin. That's seemingly odd, as Steve Lavin often said that there were more important things than winning and among those things especially was preparing his delicate charges for success later in life. He often said that he was a teacher first and a basketball coach second.
Question: since Steve Lavin does not deserve blame for Jordan's transformation from good kid to felon does he deserve credit for D'Angelo Harrison's transformation from angry young man to model citizen or does that have everything to do with D'Angelo Harrison?
Some people are just incorrigible, sort of like you.
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Some people are just incorrigible, sort of like you.
I understand the nature of good and evil, but that's not the point I'm making. If you like Steve Lavin for some to me inexplicable reason and say: Lavin gets credit for everything good that happened while he was coach and everything bad that happened was someones else's fault - which is btw Steve Lavin's perspective - that's I suppose fine, but to me it makes you an unserious person with whom discourse is futile, because you are disinterested in reason, facts, or rhetoric: you're arguing from a conclusion. It's the same on the other end of the spectrum with the Norm is always wrong crowd, who will give him no credit for anything, ever. I despise Lavin for a number of reasons but I don't give him credit for absolutely nothing, just not a lot something. While I certainly don't think he did the Jordan any favors and I think maybe Lavin could have done things to ameliorate Jordan's recklessness I also don't think he's to blame for what happened; and on the other hand I think he deserves zero credit for whatever alleged transformation DH underwent, which I don't think he underwent anyway, that was just some histrionic horseshit Lavin cooked up to make himself look good. The point being that I'm rational and some people aren't and arguing with irrational people is irrational and I try and avoid it.
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When if at all should a formal announcement be expected from the University rescinding his offer?
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm went after some questionable recruits himself:
Doug Wiggins - committed to SJU then got kicked out of Uconn
Derwin Kitchen - Ineligible
Aaron Spears- Busted for drugs while at SJU
Qa'rran Calhoun - Knocked up girl and left first year
Sylvan Lamdesburg - drama and left after a year in UVA
Rob Thomas - Ineligible
DJ Kennedy - Had a kid when we recruited him and like 14 kids by graduation
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Some people are just incorrigible, sort of like you.
I understand the nature of good and evil, but that's not the point I'm making. If you like Steve Lavin for some to me inexplicable reason and say: Lavin gets credit for everything good that happened while he was coach and everything bad that happened was someones else's fault - which is btw Steve Lavin's perspective - that's I suppose fine, but to me it makes you an unserious person with whom discourse is futile, because you are disinterested in reason, facts, or rhetoric: you're arguing from a conclusion. It's the same on the other end of the spectrum with the Norm is always wrong crowd, who will give him no credit for anything, ever. I despise Lavin for a number of reasons but I don't give him credit for absolutely nothing, just not a lot something. While I certainly don't think he did the Jordan any favors and I think maybe Lavin could have done things to ameliorate Jordan's recklessness I also don't think he's to blame for what happened; and on the other hand I think he deserves zero credit for whatever alleged transformation DH underwent, which I don't think he underwent anyway, that was just some histrionic horseshit Lavin cooked up to make himself look good. The point being that I'm rational and some people aren't and arguing with irrational people is irrational and I try and avoid it.
Everyone sees themselves as rational I think. I mean do people walk around going " man I am one irrational person"?
You and maybe others would put me in the irrational category in regards to Norm. But I would do the same with you with Lavin.
And virtually no one on these boards is rational about Jarvis. Granted bad guy, pompous, in the end did way more harm to program than good. However Elite 8 team probably my favorite team ever. For all Jarvis faults, that team does not play that way for Fran.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm went after some questionable recruits himself:
Doug Wiggins - committed to SJU then got kicked out of Uconn
Derwin Kitchen - Ineligible
Aaron Spears- Busted for drugs while at SJU
Qa'rran Calhoun - Knocked up girl and left first year
Sylvan Lamdesburg - drama and left after a year in UVA
Rob Thomas - Ineligible
DJ Kennedy - Had a kid when we recruited him and like 14 kids by graduation
<sarcasm>
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Some people are just incorrigible, sort of like you.
I understand the nature of good and evil, but that's not the point I'm making. If you like Steve Lavin for some to me inexplicable reason and say: Lavin gets credit for everything good that happened while he was coach and everything bad that happened was someones else's fault - which is btw Steve Lavin's perspective - that's I suppose fine, but to me it makes you an unserious person with whom discourse is futile, because you are disinterested in reason, facts, or rhetoric: you're arguing from a conclusion. It's the same on the other end of the spectrum with the Norm is always wrong crowd, who will give him no credit for anything, ever. I despise Lavin for a number of reasons but I don't give him credit for absolutely nothing, just not a lot something. While I certainly don't think he did the Jordan any favors and I think maybe Lavin could have done things to ameliorate Jordan's recklessness I also don't think he's to blame for what happened; and on the other hand I think he deserves zero credit for whatever alleged transformation DH underwent, which I don't think he underwent anyway, that was just some histrionic horseshit Lavin cooked up to make himself look good. The point being that I'm rational and some people aren't and arguing with irrational people is irrational and I try and avoid it.
Everyone sees themselves as rational I think. I mean do people walk around going " man I am one irrational person"?
You and maybe others would put me in the irrational category in regards to Norm. But I would do the same with you with Lavin.
And virtually no one on these boards is rational about Jarvis. Granted bad guy, pompous, in the end did way more harm to program than good. However Elite 8 team probably my favorite team ever. For all Jarvis faults, that team does not play that way for Fran.
Irrational people suffering manias don't know they're crazy. Rational people know that some of their thoughts are insane. I'm not irrational about Lavin. Sure I use hyperbole to describe him. but I don't eg deny that he deserves some credit for taking two teams to the tournament. I just question how much. You're irrational about Norm because you give him no credit for even any small thing and have managed to maintain that animus for nearly ten years. I've come to consider you nearly insane on the subject. To use one of your favorite analogies, I have a certain ex girlfriend who I can't think about without a giant flashing neon C word popping unbidden into my mind but I'm not so irrational about her that I refuse to acknowledge that she gave great head.
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Some people are just incorrigible, sort of like you.
I understand the nature of good and evil, but that's not the point I'm making. If you like Steve Lavin for some to me inexplicable reason and say: Lavin gets credit for everything good that happened while he was coach and everything bad that happened was someones else's fault - which is btw Steve Lavin's perspective - that's I suppose fine, but to me it makes you an unserious person with whom discourse is futile, because you are disinterested in reason, facts, or rhetoric: you're arguing from a conclusion. It's the same on the other end of the spectrum with the Norm is always wrong crowd, who will give him no credit for anything, ever. I despise Lavin for a number of reasons but I don't give him credit for absolutely nothing, just not a lot something. While I certainly don't think he did the Jordan any favors and I think maybe Lavin could have done things to ameliorate Jordan's recklessness I also don't think he's to blame for what happened; and on the other hand I think he deserves zero credit for whatever alleged transformation DH underwent, which I don't think he underwent anyway, that was just some histrionic horseshit Lavin cooked up to make himself look good. The point being that I'm rational and some people aren't and arguing with irrational people is irrational and I try and avoid it.
Everyone sees themselves as rational I think. I mean do people walk around going " man I am one irrational person"?
You and maybe others would put me in the irrational category in regards to Norm. But I would do the same with you with Lavin.
And virtually no one on these boards is rational about Jarvis. Granted bad guy, pompous, in the end did way more harm to program than good. However Elite 8 team probably my favorite team ever. For all Jarvis faults, that team does not play that way for Fran.
Irrational people suffering manias don't know they're crazy. Rational people know that some of their thoughts are insane. I'm not irrational about Lavin. Sure I use hyperbole to describe him. but I don't eg deny that he deserves some credit for taking two teams to the tournament. I just question how much. You're irrational about Norm because you give him no credit for even any small thing and have managed to maintain that animus for nearly ten years. I've come to consider you nearly insane on the subject. To use one of your favorite analogies, I have a certain ex girlfriend who I can't think about without a giant flashing neon C word popping unbidden into my mind but I'm not so irrational about her that I refuse to acknowledge that she gave great head.
I fully believe you could have stuck anyone in there for 6 years and not done any worse than Norm. Most of the people defending him were basically giving him credit for not being Jarvis. We stunk, were awful to watch and I would have bet we were never going to make a tourney ever again. In fact I would have said it was more likely we left the BE for smaller conference before we made NCAA tourney.
Norm is the reason I can never hate on Lavin like some of you do. And I thought Lavin was a self promoting bad basketball coach.
How about Jarvis? No matter what happened afterwards, Elite 8 team was probably my favorite. Even more so than Final Four team.
How is this analogy? My stop mom was a drain on man kind. Worst person most people including eventually my Dad had the misfortune of meeting. She could cook though. Better than any Italian restaurant I have ever been to. Elite 8 team was my step mom's cooking
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Some people are just incorrigible, sort of like you.
I understand the nature of good and evil, but that's not the point I'm making. If you like Steve Lavin for some to me inexplicable reason and say: Lavin gets credit for everything good that happened while he was coach and everything bad that happened was someones else's fault - which is btw Steve Lavin's perspective - that's I suppose fine, but to me it makes you an unserious person with whom discourse is futile, because you are disinterested in reason, facts, or rhetoric: you're arguing from a conclusion. It's the same on the other end of the spectrum with the Norm is always wrong crowd, who will give him no credit for anything, ever. I despise Lavin for a number of reasons but I don't give him credit for absolutely nothing, just not a lot something. While I certainly don't think he did the Jordan any favors and I think maybe Lavin could have done things to ameliorate Jordan's recklessness I also don't think he's to blame for what happened; and on the other hand I think he deserves zero credit for whatever alleged transformation DH underwent, which I don't think he underwent anyway, that was just some histrionic horseshit Lavin cooked up to make himself look good. The point being that I'm rational and some people aren't and arguing with irrational people is irrational and I try and avoid it.
Everyone sees themselves as rational I think. I mean do people walk around going " man I am one irrational person"?
You and maybe others would put me in the irrational category in regards to Norm. But I would do the same with you with Lavin.
And virtually no one on these boards is rational about Jarvis. Granted bad guy, pompous, in the end did way more harm to program than good. However Elite 8 team probably my favorite team ever. For all Jarvis faults, that team does not play that way for Fran.
Irrational people suffering manias don't know they're crazy. Rational people know that some of their thoughts are insane. I'm not irrational about Lavin. Sure I use hyperbole to describe him. but I don't eg deny that he deserves some credit for taking two teams to the tournament. I just question how much. You're irrational about Norm because you give him no credit for even any small thing and have managed to maintain that animus for nearly ten years. I've come to consider you nearly insane on the subject. To use one of your favorite analogies, I have a certain ex girlfriend who I can't think about without a giant flashing neon C word popping unbidden into my mind but I'm not so irrational about her that I refuse to acknowledge that she gave great head.
I fully believe you could have stuck anyone in there for 6 years and not done any worse than Norm. Most of the people defending him were basically giving him credit for not being Jarvis. We stunk, were awful to watch and I would have bet we were never going to make a tourney ever again. In fact I would have said it was more likely we left the BE for smaller conference before we made NCAA tourney.
Norm is the reason I can never hate on Lavin like some of you do. And I thought Lavin was a self promoting bad basketball coach.
How about Jarvis? No matter what happened afterwards, Elite 8 team was probably my favorite. Even more so than Final Four team.
How is this analogy? My stop mom was a drain on man kind. Worst person most people including eventually my Dad had the misfortune of meeting. She could cook though. Better than any Italian restaurant I have ever been to. Elite 8 team was my step mom's cooking
Breakthrough! It's not your fault, sport. It's not your fault.
I guess this explains the disdain for Mussini.
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Some people are just incorrigible, sort of like you.
I understand the nature of good and evil, but that's not the point I'm making. If you like Steve Lavin for some to me inexplicable reason and say: Lavin gets credit for everything good that happened while he was coach and everything bad that happened was someones else's fault - which is btw Steve Lavin's perspective - that's I suppose fine, but to me it makes you an unserious person with whom discourse is futile, because you are disinterested in reason, facts, or rhetoric: you're arguing from a conclusion. It's the same on the other end of the spectrum with the Norm is always wrong crowd, who will give him no credit for anything, ever. I despise Lavin for a number of reasons but I don't give him credit for absolutely nothing, just not a lot something. While I certainly don't think he did the Jordan any favors and I think maybe Lavin could have done things to ameliorate Jordan's recklessness I also don't think he's to blame for what happened; and on the other hand I think he deserves zero credit for whatever alleged transformation DH underwent, which I don't think he underwent anyway, that was just some histrionic horseshit Lavin cooked up to make himself look good. The point being that I'm rational and some people aren't and arguing with irrational people is irrational and I try and avoid it.
Everyone sees themselves as rational I think. I mean do people walk around going " man I am one irrational person"?
You and maybe others would put me in the irrational category in regards to Norm. But I would do the same with you with Lavin.
And virtually no one on these boards is rational about Jarvis. Granted bad guy, pompous, in the end did way more harm to program than good. However Elite 8 team probably my favorite team ever. For all Jarvis faults, that team does not play that way for Fran.
Irrational people suffering manias don't know they're crazy. Rational people know that some of their thoughts are insane. I'm not irrational about Lavin. Sure I use hyperbole to describe him. but I don't eg deny that he deserves some credit for taking two teams to the tournament. I just question how much. You're irrational about Norm because you give him no credit for even any small thing and have managed to maintain that animus for nearly ten years. I've come to consider you nearly insane on the subject. To use one of your favorite analogies, I have a certain ex girlfriend who I can't think about without a giant flashing neon C word popping unbidden into my mind but I'm not so irrational about her that I refuse to acknowledge that she gave great head.
I fully believe you could have stuck anyone in there for 6 years and not done any worse than Norm. Most of the people defending him were basically giving him credit for not being Jarvis. We stunk, were awful to watch and I would have bet we were never going to make a tourney ever again. In fact I would have said it was more likely we left the BE for smaller conference before we made NCAA tourney.
Norm is the reason I can never hate on Lavin like some of you do. And I thought Lavin was a self promoting bad basketball coach.
How about Jarvis? No matter what happened afterwards, Elite 8 team was probably my favorite. Even more so than Final Four team.
How is this analogy? My stop mom was a drain on man kind. Worst person most people including eventually my Dad had the misfortune of meeting. She could cook though. Better than any Italian restaurant I have ever been to. Elite 8 team was my step mom's cooking
Breakthrough! It's not your fault, sport. It's not your fault.
I guess this explains the disdain for Mussini.
No I am 15 % Italian on my mom's side
Norm was terrible but that doesn't mean I don't like all black coaches. Just Norm
My step mom was horrible but I like Italian people,15% of myself included
I just don't like watching slow, short Italian shooting guards named Frederico
I generally hate all things Duke but I like Tha Kid
I don't prejudge the things I hate. They are earned
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.
So Steve Lavin recruits a player to school who you claim is a good kid and after two years under Lavin's wing the kid drops out and ends up in prison and that has nothing at all to do with Steve Lavin. That's seemingly odd, as Steve Lavin often said that there were more important things than winning and among those things especially was preparing his delicate charges for success later in life. He often said that he was a teacher first and a basketball coach second.
Question: since Steve Lavin does not deserve blame for Jordan's transformation from good kid to felon does he deserve credit for D'Angelo Harrison's transformation from angry young man to model citizen or does that have everything to do with D'Angelo Harrison?
When a 12 year old is arrested for armed robbery, it's pretty easy to understand that he didn't end up in that situation on his own. Rysheed Jordan is a grown man. It's absolutely ridiculous to blame Steve Lavin for his arrest. From what I can tell, Lavin has a good relationship with many of his former players from both UCLA and St.John's.
If Lavin handed Jordan a loaded weapon, you'd have a damn good point.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm went after some questionable recruits himself:
Doug Wiggins - committed to SJU then got kicked out of Uconn
Derwin Kitchen - Ineligible
Aaron Spears- Busted for drugs while at SJU
Qa'rran Calhoun - Knocked up girl and left first year
Sylvan Lamdesburg - drama and left after a year in UVA
Rob Thomas - Ineligible
DJ Kennedy - Had a kid when we recruited him and like 14 kids by graduation
Bite your tongue. DJ Kennedy is one of the best 4 year players we've ever had at St.John's.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm went after some questionable recruits himself:
Doug Wiggins - committed to SJU then got kicked out of Uconn
Derwin Kitchen - Ineligible
Aaron Spears- Busted for drugs while at SJU
Qa'rran Calhoun - Knocked up girl and left first year
Sylvan Lamdesburg - drama and left after a year in UVA
Rob Thomas - Ineligible
DJ Kennedy - Had a kid when we recruited him and like 14 kids by graduation
Bite your tongue. DJ Kennedy is one of the best 4 year players we've ever had at St.John's.
Agreed. And he was a risk that paid off. Most coaches wouldn't look twice at a high schooler with a child....probably why he was available and willing to come to SJU. Believe me, I'm not knocking him. I was arrested before college and was a huge risk myself.
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We Are SJU, don't tell me the Elite 8 team wouldn't have played hard for Fran. Fran was 10x the coach Jarvis was
Jarvis just rolled the balls out.
If Fran behaved like a professional or things weren't made public, he could've stayed here and we would have more than 1 Final Four banner.
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We Are SJU, don't tell me the Elite 8 team wouldn't have played hard for Fran. Fran was 10x the coach Jarvis was
Jarvis just rolled the balls out.
If Fran behaved like a professional or things weren't made public, he could've stayed here and we would have more than 1 Final Four banner.
There's a heavy dose of irony in your post. ;D
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm went after some questionable recruits himself:
Doug Wiggins - committed to SJU then got kicked out of Uconn
Derwin Kitchen - Ineligible
Aaron Spears- Busted for drugs while at SJU
Qa'rran Calhoun - Knocked up girl and left first year
Sylvan Lamdesburg - drama and left after a year in UVA
Rob Thomas - Ineligible
DJ Kennedy - Had a kid when we recruited him and like 14 kids by graduation
Bite your tongue. DJ Kennedy is one of the best 4 year players we've ever had at St.John's.
Agreed. And he was a risk that paid off. Most coaches wouldn't look twice at a high schooler with a child....probably why he was available and willing to come to SJU. Believe me, I'm not knocking him. I was arrested before college and was a huge risk myself.
This thread is about taking questionable people. In no way was DJ a questionable person. Aaron Spears, yes. Derwin Kitchen, maybe, but not certainly. By and large Norm recruited good kids. That wasn't why he failed. He lost out on just about every top recruiting target, key players were always hurt, he had almost no continuity due to transfers and he was a clueless strategist 24/7.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.
So Steve Lavin recruits a player to school who you claim is a good kid and after two years under Lavin's wing the kid drops out and ends up in prison and that has nothing at all to do with Steve Lavin. That's seemingly odd, as Steve Lavin often said that there were more important things than winning and among those things especially was preparing his delicate charges for success later in life. He often said that he was a teacher first and a basketball coach second.
Question: since Steve Lavin does not deserve blame for Jordan's transformation from good kid to felon does he deserve credit for D'Angelo Harrison's transformation from angry young man to model citizen or does that have everything to do with D'Angelo Harrison?
When a 12 year old is arrested for armed robbery, it's pretty easy to understand that he didn't end up in that situation on his own. Rysheed Jordan is a grown man. It's absolutely ridiculous to blame Steve Lavin for his arrest. From what I can tell, Lavin has a good relationship with many of his former players from both UCLA and St.John's.
If Lavin handed Jordan a loaded weapon, you'd have a damn good point.
Your evasion of the question is noted.
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We Are SJU, don't tell me the Elite 8 team wouldn't have played hard for Fran. Fran was 10x the coach Jarvis was
Jarvis just rolled the balls out.
If Fran behaved like a professional or things weren't made public, he could've stayed here and we would have more than 1 Final Four banner.
That's debatable. I wasn't happy when they fired Fran, but who could complain after the 98-99 season? In 1996-1997, Fran won 14 games with Lopez and Zendon as upperclassmen + Minlend as a senior. Lost to Rutgers two times in one season. Lost to f'n LIU at Alumni Hall, too. He was no walk in the walk.
Jarvis clearly wasn't the answer for many reasons, but you can't look back on the body of work and say he wasn't a good coach. You are what your record is. The season Harrington fired him on Christmas Eve, we were terrible. He had given up. Before that, St.John's basketball may not have been great year in, year out, but we definitely had great moments, and seasons. No one can deny that.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.
What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?
When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.
So Steve Lavin recruits a player to school who you claim is a good kid and after two years under Lavin's wing the kid drops out and ends up in prison and that has nothing at all to do with Steve Lavin. That's seemingly odd, as Steve Lavin often said that there were more important things than winning and among those things especially was preparing his delicate charges for success later in life. He often said that he was a teacher first and a basketball coach second.
Question: since Steve Lavin does not deserve blame for Jordan's transformation from good kid to felon does he deserve credit for D'Angelo Harrison's transformation from angry young man to model citizen or does that have everything to do with D'Angelo Harrison?
When a 12 year old is arrested for armed robbery, it's pretty easy to understand that he didn't end up in that situation on his own. Rysheed Jordan is a grown man. It's absolutely ridiculous to blame Steve Lavin for his arrest. From what I can tell, Lavin has a good relationship with many of his former players from both UCLA and St.John's.
If Lavin handed Jordan a loaded weapon, you'd have a damn good point.
Your evasion of the question is noted.
Who the hell knows who is responsible for Harrison's maturity? Lavin never told us why he suspended the kid.
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Who the hell knows who is responsible for Harrison's maturity? Lavin never told us why he suspended the kid.
If Jordan is solely responsible for what happened to Jordan, why would Harrison not be solely responsible for what happened to Harrison.
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Fair argument. Perhaps Harrison allowed himself to accept help from others and Jordan did not
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We Are SJU, don't tell me the Elite 8 team wouldn't have played hard for Fran. Fran was 10x the coach Jarvis was
Jarvis just rolled the balls out.
If Fran behaved like a professional or things weren't made public, he could've stayed here and we would have more than 1 Final Four banner.
I liked Fran. Thought he would be Louie 2.0
Knew a player that played for Fran. Said everyone hated him. Jarvis for whatever reason was a perfect fit for that team in that they could just go out and play. Not sure Fran lets that happen.
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We Are SJU, don't tell me the Elite 8 team wouldn't have played hard for Fran. Fran was 10x the coach Jarvis was
Jarvis just rolled the balls out.
If Fran behaved like a professional or things weren't made public, he could've stayed here and we would have more than 1 Final Four banner.
There's a heavy dose of irony in your post. ;D
I really hope that was intentional - hilarious.
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So to recap, our lead 2016 big man recruit was a mental patient who punched a cop, and our lead 2017 big man recruit is a chronic criminal with academic issues. WTF
We are not a top 50 program so we need to take chances on kids that top 25 programs pass up. Don't care if you are Lavin or Mullin we unfortunately need to take some risks when it comes to recruiting. Hopefully the staff has/had a plan B.
Mike Brey, to give one example, has (by and large) been "getting by" without "top 50 program" big men for over a decade. Without scrapping the barrel with players who have checkered pasts
ND has landed NINE four star ranked kids in past 4 years and has had the same head coach for past 16 years. C'mon lets be realistic here.
I am talking about the big men only, Dave. Here's who Brey hasnabbed in the past 4 years at the 4/5 (BTW, yes Brey has had very good results and a track record, but also the disadvantages of some of the worst hoops facilities in major conference hoops during his time and a campus in the middle of nowheresville):
Mooney - got him after he decomitted from Florida when Donovan bailed. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Burns - got him over BC, the Hall and Rhody. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Geben - got him over Maryland, Miami. He was seen as a 3 star by some, 4 by others.
Colson - got him over FSU, Minnesota, Iowa St. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Burgett - got him over Cincy and Iowa. He was seen as a 3 star by most people.
Torres - got him over Lamar and Navy. 1 star recruit. Package deal with Demetris Jackson.
Auguste - got him over WVU, GTech, Florida, Marquette. He was seen as a 4 star by most people.
So now you're saying you only need decent bigs when you have great guards?
No, I was referring to big men recruits, so was sticking with that topic. But to branch out to guards and to stick with ND as an example, the only elite guard Brey has signed over past 4 years or so was Demetris Jackson. Rest are 3 and borderline 4 starts. He's focusing on, as Baldi said, smart players who can all handle the ball and shoot well coming in, with no baggage (bad grades are one thing and can be "fixed", baggae is what it is usually, and can be poisonous).
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm went after some questionable recruits himself:
Doug Wiggins - committed to SJU then got kicked out of Uconn
Derwin Kitchen - Ineligible
Aaron Spears- Busted for drugs while at SJU
Qa'rran Calhoun - Knocked up girl and left first year
Sylvan Lamdesburg - drama and left after a year in UVA
Rob Thomas - Ineligible
DJ Kennedy - Had a kid when we recruited him and like 14 kids by graduation
Bite your tongue. DJ Kennedy is one of the best 4 year players we've ever had at St.John's.
Agreed. And he was a risk that paid off. Most coaches wouldn't look twice at a high schooler with a child....probably why he was available and willing to come to SJU. Believe me, I'm not knocking him. I was arrested before college and was a huge risk myself.
This thread is about taking questionable people. In no way was DJ a questionable person. Aaron Spears, yes. Derwin Kitchen, maybe, but not certainly. By and large Norm recruited good kids. That wasn't why he failed. He lost out on just about every top recruiting target, key players were always hurt, he had almost no continuity due to transfers and he was a clueless strategist 24/7.
Disagree. How many babies do you see behind Duke and Nova benches? Can you imagine the distraction of a baby, babymama, and a 5 hour commute for a teenager trying to balance academics and d-1 athletics? DJ handled it all well but to say he wasn't a risk is crazy. Pitt pulled his offer for a reason even though his teammate Blair was a stud.
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Who the hell knows who is responsible for Harrison's maturity? Lavin never told us why he suspended the kid.
If Jordan is solely responsible for what happened to Jordan, why would Harrison not be solely responsible for what happened to Harrison.
Who suggested that Harrison wasn't solely responsible for actions? He didn't come to St.John's as a 12 year old.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm went after some questionable recruits himself:
Doug Wiggins - committed to SJU then got kicked out of Uconn
Derwin Kitchen - Ineligible
Aaron Spears- Busted for drugs while at SJU
Qa'rran Calhoun - Knocked up girl and left first year
Sylvan Lamdesburg - drama and left after a year in UVA
Rob Thomas - Ineligible
DJ Kennedy - Had a kid when we recruited him and like 14 kids by graduation
Bite your tongue. DJ Kennedy is one of the best 4 year players we've ever had at St.John's.
Agreed. And he was a risk that paid off. Most coaches wouldn't look twice at a high schooler with a child....probably why he was available and willing to come to SJU. Believe me, I'm not knocking him. I was arrested before college and was a huge risk myself.
This thread is about taking questionable people. In no way was DJ a questionable person. Aaron Spears, yes. Derwin Kitchen, maybe, but not certainly. By and large Norm recruited good kids. That wasn't why he failed. He lost out on just about every top recruiting target, key players were always hurt, he had almost no continuity due to transfers and he was a clueless strategist 24/7.
Disagree. How many babies do you see behind Duke and Nova benches? Can you imagine the distraction of a baby, babymama, and a 5 hour commute for a teenager trying to balance academics and d-1 athletics? DJ handled it all well but to say he wasn't a risk is crazy. Pitt pulled his offer for a reason even though his teammate Blair was a stud.
It's crazy to say that DJ wasn't a risk? Actually, it's not. It's crazy to think that any University or basketball fan has a right to judge DJ Kennedy's personal life.
Speaking of Duke, go Google the response that Elton Brand had for a fan who ridiculed him for leaving after two seasons. It wasn't directed at you, but maybe it could have been.
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Who the hell knows who is responsible for Harrison's maturity? Lavin never told us why he suspended the kid.
If Jordan is solely responsible for what happened to Jordan, why would Harrison not be solely responsible for what happened to Harrison.
Who suggested that Harrison wasn't solely responsible for actions? He didn't come to St.John's as a 12 year old.
Are you thick? I'm asking why Lavin is not responsible for Jordan failing and yet gets credit for Harrison's succeeding. It's a very simple question.
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Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?
To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.
Norm went after some questionable recruits himself:
Doug Wiggins - committed to SJU then got kicked out of Uconn
Derwin Kitchen - Ineligible
Aaron Spears- Busted for drugs while at SJU
Qa'rran Calhoun - Knocked up girl and left first year
Sylvan Lamdesburg - drama and left after a year in UVA
Rob Thomas - Ineligible
DJ Kennedy - Had a kid when we recruited him and like 14 kids by graduation
Bite your tongue. DJ Kennedy is one of the best 4 year players we've ever had at St.John's.
Agreed. And he was a risk that paid off. Most coaches wouldn't look twice at a high schooler with a child....probably why he was available and willing to come to SJU. Believe me, I'm not knocking him. I was arrested before college and was a huge risk myself.
This thread is about taking questionable people. In no way was DJ a questionable person. Aaron Spears, yes. Derwin Kitchen, maybe, but not certainly. By and large Norm recruited good kids. That wasn't why he failed. He lost out on just about every top recruiting target, key players were always hurt, he had almost no continuity due to transfers and he was a clueless strategist 24/7.
Disagree. How many babies do you see behind Duke and Nova benches? Can you imagine the distraction of a baby, babymama, and a 5 hour commute for a teenager trying to balance academics and d-1 athletics? DJ handled it all well but to say he wasn't a risk is crazy. Pitt pulled his offer for a reason even though his teammate Blair was a stud.
It's crazy to say that DJ wasn't a risk? Actually, it's not. It's crazy to think that any University or basketball fan has a right to judge DJ Kennedy's personal life.
Speaking of Duke, go Google the response that Elton Brand had for a fan who ridiculed him for leaving after two seasons. It wasn't directed at you, but maybe it could have been.
Wow, you are a f*cking nice person.
(1) You called recruits "actual criminals" in this very thread.
(2) If it's so crazy for a fan to have the right to judge a player's personal life, please explain why you called Eric King and Willie Shaw "lazy, arrogant thugs who simply weren't interested in working on their games" http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=9975.msg258410#msg258410
(3) Surely you understand the difference between acknowledging risk factors and judging someone's character. Some kids with good backgrounds will do bad things and some kids with red flags will be great teammates and people.
(4) WTF do the reactions of Duke fans to Brand declaring have to do with backgrounds of Coach K's recruits?
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I don't remember ever hearing a peep in terms of issues with Kennedy during his recruitment or 4 years here at St. John's. Seemed like the model student-athlete, turned professional. Heart, hustle, defense. all things I wish our current team had.
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I don't remember ever hearing a peep in terms of issues with Kennedy during his recruitment or 4 years here at St. John's. Seemed like the model student-athlete, turned professional. Heart, hustle, defense. all things I wish our current team had.
Agreed. He is one of my all-time favorite players. What that idiot doesn't get in the midst of his white knight act is the difference between judging and acknowledging risk factors. Coach K doesn't recruit the kids DJ or myself were even though we both turned out fine. The irony is that Scarsdale is literally the most judgmental a rear of a donkey on this site and is perfectly okay with labeling any non coastal city a dump and its inhabitants misfortunate gomers.
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Who the hell knows who is responsible for Harrison's maturity? Lavin never told us why he suspended the kid.
If Jordan is solely responsible for what happened to Jordan, why would Harrison not be solely responsible for what happened to Harrison.
Who suggested that Harrison wasn't solely responsible for actions? He didn't come to St.John's as a 12 year old.
Are you thick? I'm asking why Lavin is not responsible for Jordan failing and yet gets credit for Harrison's succeeding. It's a very simple question.
It appears you're thick. Forget it. Have a nice Friday.
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I don't remember ever hearing a peep in terms of issues with Kennedy during his recruitment or 4 years here at St. John's. Seemed like the model student-athlete, turned professional. Heart, hustle, defense. all things I wish our current team had.
Agreed. He is one of my all-time favorite players. What that idiot doesn't get in the midst of his white knight act is the difference between judging and acknowledging risk factors. Coach K doesn't recruit the kids DJ or myself were even though we both turned out fine. The irony is that Scarsdale is literally the most judgmental a rear of a donkey on this site and is perfectly okay with labeling any non coastal city a dump and its inhabitants misfortunate gomers.
Correct. You are dirt under my fingernails you confused child.
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Who the hell knows who is responsible for Harrison's maturity? Lavin never told us why he suspended the kid.
If Jordan is solely responsible for what happened to Jordan, why would Harrison not be solely responsible for what happened to Harrison.
Who suggested that Harrison wasn't solely responsible for actions? He didn't come to St.John's as a 12 year old.
Are you thick? I'm asking why Lavin is not responsible for Jordan failing and yet gets credit for Harrison's succeeding. It's a very simple question.
It appears you're thick. Forget it. Have a nice Friday.
Yes, I trapped you like a rat didn't I. In future remember that it's hard to appear dignified when you announce that you're flouncing off.
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I don't remember ever hearing a peep in terms of issues with Kennedy during his recruitment or 4 years here at St. John's. Seemed like the model student-athlete, turned professional. Heart, hustle, defense. all things I wish our current team had.
Agreed. He is one of my all-time favorite players. What that idiot doesn't get in the midst of his white knight act is the difference between judging and acknowledging risk factors. Coach K doesn't recruit the kids DJ or myself were even though we both turned out fine. The irony is that Scarsdale is literally the most judgmental a rear of a donkey on this site and is perfectly okay with labeling any non coastal city a dump and its inhabitants misfortunate gomers.
Correct. You are dirt under my fingernails you confused child.
Are you still judging? I don't remember ever hearing a peep in terms of issues with Kennedy during his recruitment or 4 years here at St. John's. Seemed like the model student-athlete, turned professional. Heart, hustle, defense. all things I wish our current team had.
Agreed. He is one of my all-time favorite players. What that idiot doesn't get in the midst of his white knight act is the difference between judging and acknowledging risk factors. Coach K doesn't recruit the kids DJ or myself were even though we both turned out fine. The irony is that Scarsdale is literally the most judgmental a rear of a donkey on this site and is perfectly okay with labeling any non coastal city a dump and its inhabitants misfortunate gomers.
Correct. You are dirt under my fingernails you confused child.
Why do you have the remains of confused children under your fingernails? What did you do to me in your twisted hypo, Ed Gein? You went from zero to windowless van and a puppy way too quick.
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Per Zach B
St John's has yet to make a decision on recently arrested signee Zach Brown, but told it should come soon #sjubb
Adios
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Per Zach B
St John's has yet to make a decision on recently arrested signee Zach Brown, but told it should come soon #sjubb
Adios
Waste of talent and potential.
Does he go the JuCo route now?
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Per Zach B
St John's has yet to make a decision on recently arrested signee Zach Brown, but told it should come soon #sjubb
Adios
Waste of talent and potential.
Does he go the JuCo route now?
Hopefully, he learns his lesson before it's too late. Someone mentioned James Felton. He died at 27. Sad to see that.
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Zach Brown arrested again. Behind bars
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Zach Brown arrested again. Behind bars
Looks like him and his bro were arrested at a motel while wearing drag or at least with makeup on. They were arrested for not showing up in traffic court recently.
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Zach Brown arrested again. Behind bars
Why did you put this in the Matt A thread?
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Zach Brown arrested again. Behind bars
Why did you put this in the Matt A thread?
Thought this was his guy?
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Mods can move if they choose so.
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Zach Brown arrested again. Behind bars
Looks like him and his bro were arrested at a motel while wearing drag or at least with makeup on. They were arrested for not showing up in traffic court recently.
link to the story.?
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http://slaterscoops.com/news/2017/3/3/exclusive-71-former-stud-hoops-recruit-behind-bars-again
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Do we care at this point? If he were still a target most definitely relevant. But we've cut ties.
Zach Brown arrested again. Behind bars
Looks like him and his bro were arrested at a motel while wearing drag or at least with makeup on. They were arrested for not showing up in traffic court recently.
link to the story.?
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Any other Trannys we can recruit?
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It might be politically incorrect. But Marco, I laughed!
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Any other Trannys we can recruit?
Priceless!
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Rupaul, a 6'8 hustler who can handle the balls and bang down low, is still available. From Caitlin Jenner Junior College
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Rupaul, a 6'8 hustler who can handle the balls and bang down low, is still available. From Caitlin Jenner Junior College
LOL funny
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Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
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Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
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Imagine this guy and his brother in the locker room showers with the De La Rosa brothers!
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Imagine this guy and his brother in the locker room showers with the De La Rosa brothers!
1 big brotherly orgy
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LOL!
Make Shawshank look like a clam bake.
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Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
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Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
Brown would've led the team in steals.
I'll be here all week folks
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Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
He doesn't have to be Bam to contribute. That's a strawman. Giles isn't a center either, but you mentioned him. Giles's game in no way resembles a center.
At least, Leaf plays with his back to the basket. He's UCLA's go-to-guy in the post. Leaf being a center is just a label. He plays like one for UCLA.
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Imagine this guy and his brother in the locker room showers with the De La Rosa brothers!
My money is on the girls.
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Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
He doesn't have to be Bam to contribute. That's a strawman. Giles isn't a center either, but you mentioned him. Giles's game in no way resembles a center.
At least, Leaf plays with his back to the basket. He's UCLA's go-to-guy in the post. Leaf being a center is just a label. He plays like one for UCLA.
I have no idea what Giles is, he's hasn't done anything yet and unless Brown was going to hit some threes I wouldn't compare him to Leaf. I think he'd be more like RF than TJ.
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Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
He doesn't have to be Bam to contribute. That's a strawman. Giles isn't a center either, but you mentioned him. Giles's game in no way resembles a center.
At least, Leaf plays with his back to the basket. He's UCLA's go-to-guy in the post. Leaf being a center is just a label. He plays like one for UCLA.
I have no idea what Giles is, he's hasn't done anything yet and unless Brown was going to hit some threes I wouldn't compare him to Leaf. I think he'd be more like RF than TJ.
I knew you didn't know what Giles his by even mentioning him as a "big." Where and when did I compare Brown to Leaf? I only gave names of "bigs" who are playing well for their respective teams. Just because Leaf is capable of hitting treys doesn't take away from him being a "big." He often plays on the blocks for UCLA.
Yeah, Brown would be more like Freudenberg than Leaf.... Moving the goalposts and another one of your fallacies.
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I wonder if he can get his life together if the lady storm might offer him a scholarship. Would be a nice pick up.
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Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
Having seen top big men such as Giles, Bolden, Azubuike and others struggle to contribute this year, I'm convinced Brown would have given us little to nothing next year. When it comes to big men, graduate transfers are the way to go in the one and done era.
Brown may have not helped us out a season from now, but there is a chance he could've helped us. So, why speak in absolutes based off a handful of players? Giles never has played like a big. He just has good size, but he's what they call a "stretch four." He's also a year removed from an ACL injury.
Just because the one's you've mentioned aren't paying off immediately doesn't mean they won't pay off for their respective team. Big men can typically take the longest to get going.
I guess you forgot about freshman bigs Bam Adebayo, TJ Leaf, Zach Collins, Tony Bradley, and probably a few others I could be forgetting.
There are freshmen that contribute but he's not Bam and Leaf is not a center. I don't think Brown is as talented as Bolden but we'll never know.
He doesn't have to be Bam to contribute. That's a strawman. Giles isn't a center either, but you mentioned him. Giles's game in no way resembles a center.
At least, Leaf plays with his back to the basket. He's UCLA's go-to-guy in the post. Leaf being a center is just a label. He plays like one for UCLA.
I have no idea what Giles is, he's hasn't done anything yet and unless Brown was going to hit some threes I wouldn't compare him to Leaf. I think he'd be more like RF than TJ.
I knew you didn't know what Giles his by even mentioning him as a "big." Where and when did I compare Brown to Leaf? I only gave names of "bigs" who are playing well for their respective teams. Just because Leaf is capable of hitting treys doesn't take away from him being a "big." He often plays on the blocks for UCLA.
Yeah, Brown would be more like Freudenberg than Leaf.... Moving the goalposts and another one of your fallacies.
That went way over my head and I won't reduce myself to insulting a teenager with gender identity issues who has had a much tougher life than I had but my original point was in this era of one and dones, we're better off with the graduate transfer.
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This is pretty wild.
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I wonder if he can get his life together if the lady storm might offer him a scholarship. Would be a nice pick up.
Not everyone is as tough as a St.John's fan.
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bring back Adonis D, a real man :D
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https://twitter.com/JessicaTurberry
After monthly visits this Winter, how was this imbalanced personality not suspected?
I credit Matt for a lot of things, but imagine looking at this account knowing he/she was suiting up for us next Fall. We're only about a month removed from this debacle. A inexcusable, irresponsible risk, terrible recruiting job on his part.
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https://twitter.com/JessicaTurberry
After monthly visits this Winter, how was this imbalanced personality not suspected?
I credit Matt for a lot of things, but imagine looking at this account knowing he/she was suiting up for us next Fall. We're only about a month removed from this debacle. A inexcusable, irresponsible risk, terrible recruiting job on his part.
If his gender identity is female can he play for the women's team? Imagine the damage he could do as a 7' 260 lb. center for the ladies Red Storm. Bring on Uconn!
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https://twitter.com/JessicaTurberry
After monthly visits this Winter, how was this imbalanced personality not suspected?
I credit Matt for a lot of things, but imagine looking at this account knowing he/she was suiting up for us next Fall. We're only about a month removed from this debacle. A inexcusable, irresponsible risk, terrible recruiting job on his part.
This is some of the craziest sht I've seen
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Jesus
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Now it makes sense why he/she committed to Yukon. Geno was recruiting him/her for the girls team and you can't say no to Geno
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https://twitter.com/JessicaTurberry
After monthly visits this Winter, how was this imbalanced personality not suspected?
I credit Matt for a lot of things, but imagine looking at this account knowing he/she was suiting up for us next Fall. We're only about a month removed from this debacle. A inexcusable, irresponsible risk, terrible recruiting job on his part.
I still don't get where the irresponsible risk is? It was potentially the last scholarship on the team. Who was better that late in the game?
It was calculated risk imo. If it worked great, if it didn't then you still have transfer fall back plan. Rest of bigs in class stunk.
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https://twitter.com/JessicaTurberry
After monthly visits this Winter, how was this imbalanced personality not suspected?
I credit Matt for a lot of things, but imagine looking at this account knowing he/she was suiting up for us next Fall. We're only about a month removed from this debacle. A inexcusable, irresponsible risk, terrible recruiting job on his part.
I still don't get where the irresponsible risk is? It was potentially the last scholarship on the team. Who was better that late in the game?
It was calculated risk imo. If it worked great, if it didn't then you still have transfer fall back plan. Rest of bigs in class stunk.
Dave, in the past month he has changed his name to Jessica Turberry, regularly crossdresses, puts on makeup, blatenly shoplifted and violated his probation. You're asking what the risk was? This scholarship supposedly scared away Sima for good and dampened our chances with any other 2017 recruit. It looks like we almost had the first trans basketball player in the sport's history. If this active profile was caught by the press while he was still committed to us articles would start and rumors would be flying. It would've been a colossal embarrassment. Matt gambled and it blew up on him and could've gotten worse. You have to be joking.
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https://twitter.com/JessicaTurberry
After monthly visits this Winter, how was this imbalanced personality not suspected?
I credit Matt for a lot of things, but imagine looking at this account knowing he/she was suiting up for us next Fall. We're only about a month removed from this debacle. A inexcusable, irresponsible risk, terrible recruiting job on his part.
I still don't get where the irresponsible risk is? It was potentially the last scholarship on the team. Who was better that late in the game?
It was calculated risk imo. If it worked great, if it didn't then you still have transfer fall back plan. Rest of bigs in class stunk.
Dave, in the past month he has changed his name to Jessica Turberry, regularly crossdresses, puts on makeup, blatenly shoplifted and violated his probation. You're asking what the risk was? This scholarship supposedly scared away Sima for good and dampened our chances with any other 2017 recruit. It looks like we almost had the first trans basketball player in the sport's history. If this active profile was caught by the press while he was still committed to us articles would start and rumors would be flying. It would've been a colossal embarrassment. Matt gambled and it blew up on him and could've gotten worse. You have to be joking.
I'm looking at this from a basketball perspective only. St. John's got involved with Brown when everyone jumped off then he was turning the corner and teams jumped back in and he climbed up the rankings. St. John's had an inside track on top rated big school has been involved with since Jayson Williams.
There are no other 2017 recruits and Sima couldn't cut it on this current roster so that has nothing to do with Brown.
Kid threw away his opportunity but school was wise to hang in and gamble on him. It didn't work out but I'd do it again for next recruit especially scholarship #13
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Embarrassment? We would have been applauded by the media and gotten more coverage from ESPN than we've gotten in the last 20 years for being so progressive for having a transgender on our roster.
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Dave...we needed a big and this guy had zero chance of ever making it. Surely there was a PF type out there we could've got that would defend and rebound.
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My biggest qualm is how he wasn't pegged as unstable from nearly monthly visits this Winter. Regardless of talent, at what point do you step back and say we can't have this kid represent our program. Sheed and Obekpa were costly risks at 18 years old, but this would've been unprecedented.
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It didn't work out but I'd do it again for next recruit especially scholarship #13
I've admitted that Brown was worth the risk, but in our case he wasn't the 13th scholarship player. Frankly, we're not in a position where he'd be listed as such. He was being counted on in our case.
For teams like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, UNC, or even Villanova, then your "13th scholarship" quote would hold true. But, not in our situation. I'm not counting on personnel who isn't on the team or have yet to commit to St. John's.
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Dave...we needed a big and this guy had zero chance of ever making it. Surely there was a PF type out there we could've got that would defend and rebound.
This class is thin and available and attainable guys weren't worth it. Transfer was always backup plan and still in play. In good shape.
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Embarrassment? We would have been applauded by the media and gotten more coverage from ESPN than we've gotten in the last 20 years for being so progressive for having a transgender on our roster.
Still might have the ESPY "Most Courageous Athlete" award wrapped up. Past winners include Bruce Jenner and Michael Obama.
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https://twitter.com/JessicaTurberry
After monthly visits this Winter, how was this imbalanced personality not suspected?
I credit Matt for a lot of things, but imagine looking at this account knowing he/she was suiting up for us next Fall. We're only about a month removed from this debacle. A inexcusable, irresponsible risk, terrible recruiting job on his part.
I still don't get where the irresponsible risk is? It was potentially the last scholarship on the team. Who was better that late in the game?
It was calculated risk imo. If it worked great, if it didn't then you still have transfer fall back plan. Rest of bigs in class stunk.
Dave, in the past month he has changed his name to Jessica Turberry, regularly crossdresses, puts on makeup, blatenly shoplifted and violated his probation. You're asking what the risk was? This scholarship supposedly scared away Sima for good and dampened our chances with any other 2017 recruit. It looks like we almost had the first trans basketball player in the sport's history. If this active profile was caught by the press while he was still committed to us articles would start and rumors would be flying. It would've been a colossal embarrassment. Matt gambled and it blew up on him and could've gotten worse. You have to be joking.
I'm looking at this from a basketball perspective only. St. John's got involved with Brown when everyone jumped off then he was turning the corner and teams jumped back in and he climbed up the rankings. St. John's had an inside track on top rated big school has been involved with since Jayson Williams.
There are no other 2017 recruits and Sima couldn't cut it on this current roster so that has nothing to do with Brown.
Kid threw away his opportunity but school was wise to hang in and gamble on him. It didn't work out but I'd do it again for next recruit especially scholarship #13
He's not the top rated big we've recruited since Williams. Possibly the top raked big since Zendon Hamilton, who was rated higher than Brown, and actually Williams, too.
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My biggest qualm is how he wasn't pegged as unstable from nearly monthly visits this Winter. Regardless of talent, at what point do you step back and say we can't have this kid represent our program. Sheed and Obekpa were costly risks at 18 years old, but this would've been unprecedented.
Actual killers have played here. We also had a guy who started the biggest sports riot in basketball history. This kid did what, steal a bag of potato chips? He has really, really bad judgement, but I see Dave's point. There are other options, and most of them won't become available for another week to ten days.
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Can someone change the name of this thread to make it accurate and to reflect the transformation thank you
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Can someone change the name of this thread to make it accurate and to reflect the transformation thank you
Hahahaha