6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: Marco Baldi on October 14, 2008, 11:53:03 AM
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Who was the better college player? Its unfortunate that both did not stay longer, both would have been great at the college level. Barkley was on the better team but I think Cook could have excelled with that team as well. That being said, I take Barkley
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Talk about a gimme. I know you just post to keep busy but this question is more ridiculous than some of your jokingly inflammatory stuff. Barkley by the largest of margins.
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Talk about a gimme. I know you just post to keep busy but this question is more ridiculous than some of your jokingly inflammatory stuff. Barkley by the largest of margins.
HAHA, was Barkley that much better?
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if cook stayed for another yr it would be him.
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Gotta go with EB. Cook was a better a passer but thats about it.
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Who was the better college player? Its unfortunate that both did not stay longer, both would have been great at the college level. Barkley was on the better team but I think Cook could have excelled with that team as well. That being said, I take Barkley
Barkley was. Cook had some incredible moments, but Barkley did it all.
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Who were the starting 5 for Cooks year?
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Barkley - not even close. Marco, how long have you been a St. John's fan?
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Funny, I was working on a post (on the blog) that's a bit about this. But the upshot is - Barkley had a better assist to turnover ratio, he was a proficient steals man, he drew fouls (even if he wasn't the best FT shooter). And Barkley turned the ball over a pretty low amount for a point guard/ lead ball handler. The Elite 8 year, his numbers were straight sick.
Meanwhile, Cook's love of the outside shot (and jacking up shots in general) really shot the team out of some games. And the squad went 14-15 in his year. And he acted like an a-hole.
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Barkley - not even close. Marco, how long have you been a St. John's fan?
80's. I dont think Barkley was that much better, he was surrounded by much better players. Cook could have been just as good, that s all Im saying
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Cook was flashier. That's the only area he's ahead. It also led to a poorer A/TO as he tried to do too much, whether it was because of inferior teammates or simply careless play on Omar's part it's on him to make whatever teammates he has better. That's what a PG does. Never felt like Omar was in control of a game or system like Erick.
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Barkley - not even close. Marco, how long have you been a St. John's fan?
80's. I dont think Barkley was that much better, he was surrounded by much better players. Cook could have been just as good, that s all Im saying
AHHHH, man. Cook's teammates were worse:
Abe Keita
Alpha Bangura
Anthony Glover
Christian Diaz
Curtis Johnson
Donald Emanuel
Jack Wolfinger
John Parker
Jon Scheiman
Kyle Cuffe
Mohammed Diakite
Omar Cook
Reggie Jessie
Sharif Fordham
Willie Shaw
(from Statsheet)
with Glover and Shaw starting 28 games; Diakate, Cuffe, Emanuel, Reggie Jessie, Alpha Bangura started in the other slots. (And Jack Wolfinger. That guy was supposed to be something but he couldn't even stay on the team. Abe Keita was on that team as well.)
That was Willie Shaw's best year in terms of points per game; the team didn't rebound particularly well. But man, Omar might have thought his teammates inferior, but he wasn't helping by trying to be a one-man show as a 6-footer with a shaky erratic jumper. Barkley could control himself; Cook was everyone's worst nightmare as a one-year player, a chemistry killing egomaniac.
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No contest here man. Barkley was an AWESOME college player. Who knows about Cook. He only played a year. If they each played three years, maybe it would a comparison. Barkley just made everybody around him better.
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Cook was flashier. That's the only area he's ahead. It also led to a poorer A/TO as he tried to do too much, whether it was because of inferior teammates or simply careless play on Omar's part it's on him to make whatever teammates he has better. That's what a PG does. Never felt like Omar was in control of a game or system like Erick.
Another mention of alumni of mine from both college and high school (CTK).
As mentioned, Cook was definitely flashier. Had better highlight passes... and probably a streakier shooter/scorer. But I would take Barkley hands down to run my team. Made better decisions and was more consistent overall.
But to fair... we should ask Willie Shaw what he thinks! ;)
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Remember y'all, O had to carry a young team hisself.
They was three frosh startin (O, Willie and Kyle) plus a senior who wudn't playin like it (Reggie J).
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Remember y'all, O had to carry a young team hisself.
They was three frosh startin (O, Willie and Kyle) plus a senior who wudn't playin like it (Reggie J).
Exactly Choz, Barkley got to pass the ball to Artest,Ty Grant,Bootsy and Lavor Postell. Cook got to play with Shaw,Shariff Fordham,Diakite,Glover and Cuffe. Not exactly an offensive force
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Exactly Choz, Barkley got to pass the ball to Artest,Ty Grant,Bootsy and Lavor Postell.
It makes me think... what were all of these guys rated before the signed up? I am sure Artest and Barkley was a 4 star or better. But I don't think Postell and Grant were even 3 stars.
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Lavor wuz top 50 outta Georgia.
Dont know if any other BE school went after Ty when he was doin his thing at Grady.
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Remember y'all, O had to carry a young team hisself.
They was three frosh startin (O, Willie and Kyle) plus a senior who wudn't playin like it (Reggie J).
I hear you...but who would you pick to run your team?
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Remember y'all, O had to carry a young team hisself.
They was three frosh startin (O, Willie and Kyle) plus a senior who wudn't playin like it (Reggie J).
I hear you...but who would you pick to run your team?
Erick... no doubt.
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the bottom line is cook's teams always seemed to lose..even in the ndbl where he put up some gaudy stats. he's a stat sheet stuffer.
barkley led us to one bump ...a grant injury...and ohio state using paid players away from a final four.
you have to go with the results.
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the bottom line is cook's teams always seemed to lose..even in the ndbl where he put up some gaudy stats. he's a stat sheet stuffer.
barkley led us to one bump ...a grant injury...and ohio state using paid players away from a final four.
you have to go with the results.
to play devils advocate, Barkley had a team of pros to play with in college, and Cook had a bunch of guys who couldnt catch the ball. barkley was out of the pros in 2 years. cook, if he had stayed two years may have really benefitted from that. they played in the same systems from 1st grade at St. Anne's in Brooklyn, through Christ the King and then St John's. Cook was always considered the better player, and if Barkley didnt go to prep school he woulda never even been a McDonaldsAA. Plus the fact that Cook was an 18 yr old frosh and EB was 21. Barkley always had better players around him, but Cook put up better #'s. Maybe if Cook was on the 99 team we make the Final 4. this is something thats debatable forever. At least O is making good money in Russia now. Cant say the same for EB.
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Is the pay scale so drastically different in Poland? I guess so given the number of big names willing to go back to play in Russia..
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Is the pay scale so drastically different in Poland? I guess so given the number of big names willing to go back to play in Russia..
all $$$ overseas is tax free. i think EB is out of the game. at least Omar is over there making a good salary as well as a great career.
Pay scale in Europe is high, if you go to Asia and the Mid East it gets lower. Turkey is on the Euro level.
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EB is playing in Poland. Only getting 14 mins/game in first 5 games of season.
To track ex-SJU players in Europe suggest this link:
http://www.usbasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=USA&Team=510&option=St.John's%20University%20%20(USA-%20NCAA%20I)&logo=stjohns.gif
Some info I got from there on guys who appear to be on rosters this season:
Alpha and Chud are playing in Lebanon this year.
Kyle in Venezuela
Glover in Argentina (19.5 pts/game).
Lamont in Spain (Tenerife, nice spot)
Z in Russia (strangely they don't show Omar on a roster for 08/09)
ManHatten in Italy (league 2, 21 pts/game)
Geno in Slovakia (18 assists, 15 to's in 3 games so far this season)
Lavor in Czech Republic
Bootsy in Turkey
or ask Gonzalo.
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EB is playing in Poland. Only getting 14 mins/game in first 5 games of season.
To track ex-SJU players in Europe suggest this link:
http://www.usbasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=USA&Team=510&option=St.John's%20University%20%20(USA-%20NCAA%20I)&logo=stjohns.gif
Some info I got from there on guys who appear to be on rosters this season:
Alpha and Chud are playing in Lebanon this year.
Kyle in Venezuela
Glover in Argentina (19.5 pts/game).
Lamont in Spain (Tenerife, nice spot)
Z in Russia (strangely they don't show Omar on a roster for 08/09)
ManHatten in Italy (league 2, 21 pts/game)
Geno in Slovakia (18 assists, 15 to's in 3 games so far this season)
Lavor in Czech Republic
Bootsy in Turkey
or ask Gonzalo.
Omar is playing in Spain.
http://www.acb.com/jugador.php?id=BFP
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the bottom line is cook's teams always seemed to lose..even in the ndbl where he put up some gaudy stats. he's a stat sheet stuffer.
barkley led us to one bump ...a grant injury...and ohio state using paid players away from a final four.
you have to go with the results.
to play devils advocate, Barkley had a team of pros to play with in college, and Cook had a bunch of guys who couldnt catch the ball. barkley was out of the pros in 2 years. cook, if he had stayed two years may have really benefitted from that. they played in the same systems from 1st grade at St. Anne's in Brooklyn, through Christ the King and then St John's. Cook was always considered the better player, and if Barkley didnt go to prep school he woulda never even been a McDonaldsAA. Plus the fact that Cook was an 18 yr old frosh and EB was 21. Barkley always had better players around him, but Cook put up better #'s. Maybe if Cook was on the 99 team we make the Final 4. this is something thats debatable forever. At least O is making good money in Russia now. Cant say the same for EB.
if barkley hadn't left early, we would have compared him favorably with mark jackson. EB is the only st john's player to my knowledge to score 500 points in his freshman year. he was an outstanding quarterback. we won with him. what other criteria is there? walter berry won a wooden award, but wasn't an impact nba player.
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the bottom line is cook's teams always seemed to lose..even in the ndbl where he put up some gaudy stats. he's a stat sheet stuffer.
barkley led us to one bump ...a grant injury...and ohio state using paid players away from a final four.
you have to go with the results.
to play devils advocate, Barkley had a team of pros to play with in college, and Cook had a bunch of guys who couldnt catch the ball. barkley was out of the pros in 2 years. cook, if he had stayed two years may have really benefitted from that. they played in the same systems from 1st grade at St. Anne's in Brooklyn, through Christ the King and then St John's. Cook was always considered the better player, and if Barkley didnt go to prep school he woulda never even been a McDonaldsAA. Plus the fact that Cook was an 18 yr old frosh and EB was 21. Barkley always had better players around him, but Cook put up better #'s. Maybe if Cook was on the 99 team we make the Final 4. this is something thats debatable forever. At least O is making good money in Russia now. Cant say the same for EB.
if barkley hadn't left early, we would have compared him favorably with mark jackson. EB is the only st john's player to my knowledge to score 500 points in his freshman year. he was an outstanding quarterback. we won with him. what other criteria is there? walter berry won a wooden award, but wasn't an impact nba player.
Walter never desired to be an NBA impact player, strange as that may seem.
Told me early on how he was envious of Antoine Carr who was playing in Europe at the time , living a great life and owning 2 Mercedes Benz automobiles.
He lived his dream, had a great career in Europe, made a fortune.
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walter absolutely hated to practice...
that's what killed his nba career. he had the skills, that's for sure.
i read somewhere he made more than 30 million dollars in europe following a long career there...so your last sentence is totally on the money.
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walter absolutely hated to practice...
that's what killed his nba career. he had the skills, that's for sure.
i read somewhere he made more than 30 million dollars in europe following a long career there...so your last sentence is totally on the money.
How much did Walter make at $t Johns? :)
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walter absolutely hated to practice...
that's what killed his nba career. he had the skills, that's for sure.
i read somewhere he made more than 30 million dollars in europe following a long career there...so your last sentence is totally on the money.
So were my earlier remarks.
I was shocked when I heard him say it but what I wrote is straight from his mouth.
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if you say he said it, i'm sure he said it.
i'm not sure he really meant it.