6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => Recruiting => 2019 Class => Topic started by: NYCoffey on May 16, 2019, 07:25:48 PM
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St Johns just offered according to Brazziler
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St Johns just offered according to Brazziler
Yawn! Seems like his brother is the much better of the two and Justin is already headed to Pitt.
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Reclassing to 2019 and announcing his commitment tomorrow. Some folks on twitter saying its between us and pitt.
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All signs point to it being us I think. Though weird because he's a wing and we have plenty of those for next year.
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Anyone seen Julian play or have any insight into his game/ whether or not he's a big east caliber player? My only knowledge is that there's very little tape of him on youtube and his 247 page lists him as completely unranked. He does seem to have a few nice offers though from Cincy, Rutgers, Rhode Island, Dayton, Texas, Saint Louis, and Seton Hall.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/jakeweingarten/status/1133873921617518592
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Zach says Van was the lead. Cue the whimsical articles about Action Jackson and Loughlin:
Assistant Van Macon was the lead on Julian Champagnie recruitment. St. John's worked fast on Champagnie, who initially was going to prep this year, before changing his mind. Versatiuile three-star wing. Can score in multiple ways. #sjubb
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyi40GQWh5I
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Former @MbbBishop standout who reportedly will attend prep school this year. Versatile forward who's effective on the wing and on the baseline. Great length gives him a chance to fit well into @Iron_MikeMA 's pressing defense. #SJUBB
From Paultzman's friend John Micotta's perspective.
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Great to see us get a player from the CHSAA. When was the last CHSAA player, other than walk ons (and the De La Rosa's) from the league?
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This kid sounds like the kind of player we’ve been missing.
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Nice first NY piece for this staff. He won't be expected to or needed to contribute bigtime right out of the gate which is good. Hopefully he develops into a solid 4 year guy.
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Hell have two great upper classmen to learn from. Welcome to sju!
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He is the lesser of the two brothers. I thought he was gonna wind up at A-10 level but thought if he went lower he'd be real impact. So definitely feel it's a reach for us.
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Welcome! With Ponds, Clark and Simon leaving, there are plenty of minutes available. Do well and enjoy.
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He is the lesser of the two brothers. I thought he was gonna wind up at A-10 level but thought if he went lower he'd be real impact. So definitely feel it's a reach for us.
my goodness, you haven't had a positive thing to say about SJU since Anderson was hired
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He is the lesser of the two brothers. I thought he was gonna wind up at A-10 level but thought if he went lower he'd be real impact. So definitely feel it's a reach for us.
Just so I’m understanding which perspective this is coming from Dave, would you consider yourself a scout or media?
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Bring Back Matt A!! 🙄 Need to bring in all the studs who won 3 big east Wednesday Night Games!
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4 Year Player hopefully can give us Spark off bench year 1 and learn from Figgy....NYC kid who wanted to stay home....Kid will be perfect for Anderson’s system. Welcome Julian!
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Good get by Anderson & Co. Kid's already solid with plenty of room to grow and develop. Nice to get a city kid too. Should be a solid 4 year player.
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Surprise Dave thinks it’s a reach. A reach would be offering a cross dressing thief to be your big man, a kid with offers from hall cincy few others is just a solid local player that may help build cma name in nyc.
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I disagree with Dave’s overall negative tone with respect to Mike Anderson’s regime, but I don’t think he’s totally wrong. The kid isn’t a stud but I think he should be viewed as more of a complimentary local player who can give us time at multiple spot.
Dave isn’t wrong that overall the kids we signed are not exactly blue-chippers. I just differ a little bit in that I think these kids offer more toughness and depth entering next season. as we rebuild our program under Anderson in a different style.
These are late pickups to fill needs. McGriff likely to be a backup pg. Sears a tough rebounder. Champagnie a versatile local kid who can play multiple spots for a coach who goes greater than 10 deep.
Overall though, our roster is underwhelming With respect to underclass talent. That will have to change for the 2020 class as we rebuild the roster. I expect some transfers next year coupled with the graduation of our better players will likely clear the way a bit.
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Just so I’m understanding which perspective this is coming from Dave, would you consider yourself a scout or media?
He's mainly media. This site has been somewhat of a morgue, and I believe he's been trolling to create dialogue on his forum.
As, long as this isn't our way of going about business long-term, then I'm okay with roster-fillers at this junction.
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Just so I’m understanding which perspective this is coming from Dave, would you consider yourself a scout or media?
I wouldn't consider myself either. I have worked in grassroots basketball for over a decade and have seen Julian play since he's 13. I think I have a fair assessment for him and his peers.
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Surprise Dave thinks it’s a reach. A reach would be offering a cross dressing thief to be your big man, a kid with offers from hall cincy few others is just a solid local player that may help build cma name in nyc.
That would be a risk not a reach.
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He's mainly media. This site has been somewhat of a morgue, and I believe he's been trolling to create dialogue on his forum.
You got me. Big conspiracy to drive posts.
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You got me. Big conspiracy to drive posts.
:up:
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He is the lesser of the two brothers. I thought he was gonna wind up at A-10 level but thought if he went lower he'd be real impact. So definitely feel it's a reach for us.
If he learns and improves over his time here his overall play may not mimic his star ranking.
We have had so many 4 star kids come here without getting better, why not give this new coach a chance to show us his system?
So it’s a 3 not a 4 star kid. What matters is whether or not Mike Anderson and Julian Champagnie are willing to put the work in to make Julian Champagnie a better player.
Also, I think it’s funny the way the A10 is tossed around like a lesser conference. The BE won one NCAA game last year. This is a prototypical BE project. Let’s see how he turns out.
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I always encourage everyone to share their opinions, knowledge, and thoughts. I'm simply sharing mine.
I think he'd be better suited to play for say a school like Fordham than St. John's. This isn't to say he couldn't develop to become an impact player but I don't like the immediate fit. It's simply a reach at this point to fill out roster. It's like when I didn't like Duval to Duke or Briscoe to Kentucky or Washington to Minnesota etc. It's not an anti coach or program thing but sometimes guys are better off going somewhere else.
I'm not comparing this to recruits of past coaches like many of you want to believe for whatever reason but recruits of other schools in conference right now. Outside of Creighton and Marquette we might have worst class.
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If he learns and improves over his time here his overall play may not mimic his star ranking.
We have had so many 4 star kids come here without getting better, why not give this new coach a chance to show us his system?
So it’s a 3 not a 4 star kid. What matters is whether or not Mike Anderson and Julian Champagnie are willing to put the work in to make Julian Champagnie a better player.
Also, I think it’s funny the way the A10 is tossed around like a lesser conference. The BE won one NCAA game last year. This is a prototypical BE project. Let’s see how he turns out.
I could care less if a player is 3, 4, or no stars. It's more about potential, production, and how the player has competed against his peers. For instance he wouldn't sniff Gregg Gant at Providence, Dahmir Bishop at Xavier, or Khalif Battle at Butler. He might be on par with Oscar Lopez at DePaul who's also a bit of a reach but Lopez who's nickname is the Lion plays incredibly hard.
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I could care less if a player is 3, 4, or no stars. It's more about potential, production, and how the player has competed against his peers. For instance he wouldn't sniff Gregg Gant at Providence, Dahmir Bishop at Xavier, or Khalif Battle at Butler. He might be on par with Oscar Lopez at DePaul who's also a bit of a reach but Lopez who's nickname is the Lion plays incredibly hard.
You said it there though Dave. We are just trying to fill out a roster. Mike Anderson barely has a staff in place. We definitely have to recruit more highly ranked kids in 2020 and beyond. Matt was definitely good at grabbing transfers last minute and behind the 8-ball. No denying that. I think Anderson focused this late recruiting period grabbing needed help in areas of rebounding, quick PG that can defend and grabbing a pretty good NYC wing to fill our roster.
Moving forward I have no doubt we will target higher level players when we have more of a running start and have a full staff in place. It’s gonna be a total rebuild and we will need depth. Agree we also need more studs.
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Seen this kid play plenty. Athletic and has flashes but he is just roster depth for now
I think if Pitt really wanted him he would've been there. Reclassed once SJU offered.
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Core intact, above average staff assembled, complimentary pieces rolling in, 2 ships left, WE ARE.
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watching some video of this kid I don't think he will contribute much if anything next season ala Roberts this season but hopefully with hard work and good coaching he can meaningfully contribute down the road. Would love a short term point and big to fill remaining scholarships and give us a better chance to be competitive next season. Most of us any gettin any younger.
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watching some video of this kid I don't think he will contribute much if anything next season ala Roberts this season but hopefully with hard work and good coaching he can meaningfully contribute down the road. Would love a short term point and big to fill remaining scholarships and give us a better chance to be competitive next season. Most of us ain't gettin any younger.
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Outside of Creighton and Marquette we might have worst class.
We are the only school in the conference that had a coaching change this offseason. Did you expect us not to have one of the worst classes in the conference? Is there another coach we could have gotten that would have immediately brought in a class that would have been one of the best in the conference? And please don't say Mike Brey again.
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Mike Brey would of had us in elite 8 at minimum, gotten prince, aiden and few other 5 stars....kidding
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Fellas...CMA’s style runs 10 deep. We struggled going 7 deep last year and last time I looked 5 of those players are gone. We need bodies. These recruits are tough and athletic. They may struggle offensively, but this team will be built on defense first, and we will win because of that.
This is the type of local player that finds their way on a big 10 Team and contributes off the bench as an upper classmen on a tournament team. In time I believe CMA will bring in “higher profile” players, but at a minimum he’s better than what we had at the end of our bench last year.
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I wouldn't consider myself either. I have worked in grassroots basketball for over a decade and have seen Julian play since he's 13. I think I have a fair assessment for him and his peers.
Great! So provide your assessment of him. What are his defensive limitations? What will be his challenges defensively at this level?
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I think this is a solid get. Hopefully he will be able to contribute as an upperclassmen. I definitely trust Dave's eyes and opinion since he's been around the game watching kids all the time for the past decade. He is a St. John's fan and definitely wants them to win from what I can tell from his posts.
Can we please stop saying oh this kid is perfect for Mike Anderson's system? No one knows that yet. You guys will say that about anyone who's tall and lanky or short and quick. Is the only players not good for his system fat slobs? Lets wait and see
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Welcome Julian!!!
https://nypost.com/2019/05/30/st-johns-sends-message-with-local-julian-champagnie-commit/
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I would rather take a chance on a NYC kid then Brian Trimble, a sit out transfer, or another European. At this stage this is a great pick up. Cincinnati offered which should mean the kid is tough.
Saying negative things about this staff and these recruits after staying quiet for 4 years while we had the worst staff in the country and we were 30 games under .500 seems odd.
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You got me. Big conspiracy to drive posts.
We're only days away from the big reveal where he proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're Realfan.
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On the money TonyD
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These commentators and reporters have to stop saying- such a good get because he is a local guy. No, that is not the reason he is a good get- he is a good get because he has the size we need and will provide us with some solid depth until he grows into a great player. He has the stature for it too. Also a good get because the staff proved early on they can beat other quality programs in getting a decent player and now they have an "alumni blood" player which may bode well for us in future, taking care of our own. His father was SJU soccer alum.
People have to realize though that the days of just getting NY talent makes you a contender or should be lauded extra are gone. NYs best for most part prep out to other areas. Basketball recruiting has become national with the rise of AAU programs and talent elsewhere. As long as we win, who cares, local or not!
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Anyone else take Champs (®) calling himself a "hometown hero" while wearing his father's jersey as a dig at his brother for committing to Pitt?
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These commentators and reporters have to stop saying- such a good get because he is a local guy. No, that is not the reason he is a good get- he is a good get because he has the size we need and will provide us with some solid depth until he grows into a great player. He has the stature for it too. Also a good get because the staff proved early on they can beat other quality programs in getting a decent player and now they have an "alumni blood" player which may bode well for us in future, taking care of our own. His father was SJU soccer alum.
People have to realize though that the days of just getting NY talent makes you a contender or should be lauded extra are gone. NYs best for most part prep out to other areas. Basketball recruiting has become national with the rise of AAU programs and talent elsewhere. As long as we win, who cares, local or not!
I agree with most of what you said. Except their is plenty of talent in NY. We should get our share and stop making excuses why we don’t. Being NY’s team shouldn’t just be a slogan for a tee shirt.
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We're only days away from the big reveal where he proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're Realfan.
No conspiracy. But Dave was very quiet as he watched your boy collect 8 million dollars. He sat behind the bench plenty. He saw what happened. He knows more about that staff then any of us.
I wish he would have spoke up earlier.
Only conspiracy was Chris Mullin was doing a good job. Give him a pass and a chance.
Dave is probably right about the player. He has probably watched him the most. But he was one of the best available players left. We also beat out a few teams for him.
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Both of the twins have improved each year throughout HS. Having locals on the team is essential, I would've given my left arm for former Loughlin kids Keith Williams, Mike Williams or Khadeen. If Julian improves at the same rate and has the same amount of moxie as them we're in for a good 4 years with him.
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Anyone else take Champs (®) calling himself a "hometown hero" while wearing his father's jersey as a dig at his brother for committing to Pitt?
Yes he hates his evil twin. Maybe his brother is pulling a reverse Malik Ellison.
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No conspiracy. But Dave was very quiet as he watched your boy collect 8 million dollars. He sat behind the bench plenty. He saw what happened. He knows more about that staff then any of us.
I wish he would have spoke up earlier.
Only conspiracy was Chris Mullin was doing a good job. Give him a pass and a chance.
Dave is probably right about the player. He has probably watched him the most. But he was one of the best available players left. We also beat out a few teams for him.
8 million? He didn't just walk away from the 4 million left on his contract.
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The brother with the hair is CLEARLY better. I don’t think that’s the kid we got though. Seems like a reach to me.
He looks like a faceup 4 that can maybe defend a few spots year one in a fast paced system—if he is coached up. He plays way too high on defense and uses his hands more than his feet. Appears to have some bad habits.
I like kids that played soccer as they tend to understand angles and seeing a few moves ahead of time. I would expect that his dad had him playing soccer as well at some point.
With kids like this it all comes down to work ethic and willingness to play a role that benefits the team.
I wouldn’t have offered.
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I wish
I was thinkin' I'm gonna take me some of these taters home with me, mmm, mmm
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These commentators and reporters have to stop saying- such a good get because he is a local guy. No, that is not the reason he is a good get- he is a good get because he has the size we need and will provide us with some solid depth until he grows into a great player. He has the stature for it too. Also a good get because the staff proved early on they can beat other quality programs in getting a decent player and now they have an "alumni blood" player which may bode well for us in future, taking care of our own. His father was SJU soccer alum.
People have to realize though that the days of just getting NY talent makes you a contender or should be lauded extra are gone. NYs best for most part prep out to other areas. Basketball recruiting has become national with the rise of AAU programs and talent elsewhere. As long as we win, who cares, local or not!
Great points on NY recruiting FOJ. I hate the idea that some of the older crowd seem to have of only wanting new york area players. The other important point to remember is that most of the higher rated players escape NY to finish HS or to prep in another state ala Cole Anthony and Rawle Alkins. It's vitally important for us not to limit ourselves to the ny metro area. Recruiting is now a national game.
I'm not very impressed with the Julian commit but it doesn't seem like he'll be expected to contribute anything his first year and if it can help develop good relationships in NY for Macon and CMA then I'm completely fine with it. I definitely need to see this staff land some 4 stars in 2020.
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No conspiracy. But Dave was very quiet as he watched your boy collect 8 million dollars. He sat behind the bench plenty. He saw what happened. He knows more about that staff then any of us.
I wish he would have spoke up earlier.
Only conspiracy was Chris Mullin was doing a good job. Give him a pass and a chance.
Dave is probably right about the player. He has probably watched him the most. But he was one of the best available players left. We also beat out a few teams for him.
Tony, not sure what you're inferring. I don't think the school should have let go of Mullin. I've said that plenty. The issue was there needed to be major staff changes.
As for being one of the best available Champagnie was probably one of them. I would do whatever I could to convince Nah'shon Hyland to reclassify to 2019 and let him know he's my PG of the future, I'd look into Derryck Thorton to have a platoon option, and I'd put out a contact to Tevin Mack an excellent perimeter shooter with size.
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Tony, not sure what you're inferring. I don't think the school should have let go of Mullin. I've said that plenty. The issue was there needed to be major staff changes.
It was more than simply staff changes IMO. Besides, he had opportunities to make those changes, and it didn't happen. Water under the bridge now.
I would do whatever I could to convince Nah'shon Hyland to reclassify to 2019 and let him know he's my PG of the future, I'd look into Derryck Thorton to have a platoon option, and I'd put out a contact to Tevin Mack an excellent perimeter shooter with size.
We finally agree! All across the board right here. I think I once mentioned Hyland on the other board (I know I mentioned Mack).
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I definitely trust Dave's eyes and opinion since he's been around the game watching kids all the time for the past decade. He is a St. John's fan and definitely wants them to win from what I can tell from his posts.
Although I agree he’s a fan he’s been uncharacteristically vocal and critical of the moves beginning with the CMA hire. It’s a head scratcher.
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It was more than simply staff changes IMO. Besides, he had opportunities to make those changes, and it didn't happen. Water under the bridge now.
We finally agree! All across the board right here. I think I once mentioned Hyland on the other board (I know I mentioned Mack).
'major staff changes' i think was not at the top of the list. mullin himself needed to change. from all accounts he ran the program like a gm. no way was that approach ever going to be successful. for all the talk about being 'blue-collar' type of guy, he certainly didn't behave that way. so no matter who came on as assistants, if he wasn't willing to change and role up his sleeves, he was never going to work. simple as that.
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Dave is more vocal not because of Mullin (although he has said he should have been retained) but because of his buddy Matt A and his exodus from Jamaica.
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Dave is more vocal not because of Mullin (although he has said he should have been retained) but because of his buddy Matt A and his exodus from Jamaica.
I think it's more that Dave has a lot of connections to local guys that either want to be a part of SJU or want a another local guy to turn the ship around and that it was kind of a slap in the face when they instead hired a guy from the south with zero connections to this area
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Dave is more vocal not because of Mullin (although he has said he should have been retained) but because of his buddy Matt A and his exodus from Jamaica.
I know this is a hot take lately but simply not true.
I had really good relationships with staffs as a whole with Lavin and Mullin. Perhaps that was amplified due to my job & relationship with Under Armour.
I’m not here to be an analyst or report. I offer information and opinions from time to time. I’d like to think my opinions are fair and balanced.
I have major concerns with current direction and schools ability to ever be successful. It’s less about CMA, he’s a good coach but I don’t think he maximizes potential here. I do think he can have a really good year with existing players next year
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I think it's more that Dave has a lot of connections to local guys that either want to be a part of SJU or want a another local guy to turn the ship around and that it was kind of a slap in the face when they instead hired a guy from the south with zero connections to this area
Not even remotely close. I could care less about coaches. I care about brands/players
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I know this is a hot take lately but simply not true.
I had really good relationships with staffs as a whole with Lavin and Mullin. Perhaps that was amplified due to my job & relationship with Under Armour.
I’m not here to be an analyst or report. I offer information and opinions from time to time. I’d like to think my opinions are fair and balanced.
I have major concerns with current direction and schools ability to ever be successful. It’s less about CMA, he’s a good coach but I don’t think he maximizes potential here. I do think he can have a really good year with existing players next year
"I have major concerns with current direction and schools ability to ever be successful."
What?!
Top notch AD...
Winning Coach...
New Nike Deal...
Plans to reinvigorate facilities...
More games at the Garden...
Am I missing something?
I don't think anyone is expecting a complete 180, but damn, to say the school may never be successful, you're making it sound like there's other things happening that aren't public...
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"I have major concerns with current direction and schools ability to ever be successful."
What?!
Top notch AD...
Winning Coach...
New Nike Deal...
Plans to reinvigorate facilities...
More games at the Garden...
Am I missing something?
I don't think anyone is expecting a complete 180, but damn, to say the school may never be successful, you're making it sound like there's other things happening that aren't public...
Bobby, Oliva and the Crew are still in charge, that may be what he is referring to. Their past performance does not bode well for the future. But who knows?
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Bobby, Oliva and the Crew are still in charge, that may be what he is referring to. Their past performance does not bode well for the future. But who knows?
Sure. But at same time he thinks that Mullin should’ve stayed with adjustments to staff????? That direction would’ve been ok??? No doom and gloom?
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"I have major concerns with current direction and schools ability to ever be successful."
What?!
Top notch AD...
Winning Coach...
New Nike Deal...
Plans to reinvigorate facilities...
More games at the Garden...
Am I missing something?
I don't think anyone is expecting a complete 180, but damn, to say the school may never be successful, you're making it sound like there's other things happening that aren't public...
- New AD who wasn't allowed to properly do his own coaching hire.
- 60 year old coach who has never lived 100 miles away from Arkansas
- New Nike deal which will be bottom basic deal. Don't expect to get Cuse or Georgetown like treatment.
- Slapping more lipstick on pig?
- With no plan on how to fill the garden or anything short to long term planning.
Look I'm not trying to sound negative but the facts are there are a lot of fundamental issues with the university that need wholesale changes. I really like Mike Cragg but he needs to be able to drain the swamp.
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I think it's more that Dave has a lot of connections to local guys that either want to be a part of SJU or want a another local guy to turn the ship around and that it was kind of a slap in the face when they instead hired a guy from the south with zero connections to this area
If a Cluess was hired or another "must have local" just for the sake of being "a local" this program would have been set back very far. We would have lost more of the team this year and in a few years would have to be thinking we are an A-10 school.
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- New AD who wasn't allowed to properly do his own coaching hire.
- 60 year old coach who has never lived 100 miles away from Arkansas
- New Nike deal which will be bottom basic deal. Don't expect to get Cuse or Georgetown like treatment.
- Slapping more lipstick on pig?
- With no plan on how to fill the garden or anything short to long term planning.
Look I'm not trying to sound negative but the facts are there are a lot of fundamental issues with the university that need wholesale changes. I really like Mike Cragg but he needs to be able to drain the swamp.
1. Do his job? Specifically? Who did he want that he didn’t get? Cluess? Hurley?
2. Sure he’s older. But do you come from the school of thought that to succeed here you need to be from the NE? Isn’t that a bit antiquated?
3. I don’t expect the same deal as other schools but you can’t argue the Nike brand means more to kids than UA.
4. What do you think we can afford? A totally new campus arena? Where’s that money coming from? If it hasn’t happened by now don’t think it’ll ever happen.
5. Winning fills the garden.
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1. Do his job? Specifically? Who did he want that he didn’t get? Cluess? Hurley?
Wut? Were you even paying attention? Hurley worked AD Mike "whatever you say Coach K" Cragg for a raise and so did Porter Wagoner Moser and Tim Cluess and Ryan Odom said please for god sake don't offer me the job and when all that fell through he had to go through Jeff Capel to get Coach third choice to take his calls and if that hadn't happened we'd all be celebrating the arrival of new head coach Paul Hewitt. Good grief.
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Wut? Were you even paying attention? Hurley worked AD Mike "whatever you say Coach K" Cragg for a raise and so did Porter Wagoner Moser and Tim Cluess and Ryan Odom said please for god sake don't offer me the job and when all that fell through he had to go through Jeff Capel to get Coach third choice to take his calls and if that hadn't happened we'd all be celebrating the arrival of new head coach Paul Hewitt. Good grief.
Cluess left his hat in the ring for quite some time and was left twisting in the wind as we went through candidates before finally withdrawing his name from consideration after it became apparent he was the last resort. Luckily we wound up with what might be a better choice though who knows for sure what CMA will do as compared with what Cluess might have done.
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- New AD who wasn't allowed to properly do his own coaching hire.
- 60 year old coach who has never lived 100 miles away from Arkansas
- New Nike deal which will be bottom basic deal. Don't expect to get Cuse or Georgetown like treatment.
- Slapping more lipstick on pig?
- With no plan on how to fill the garden or anything short to long term planning.
Look I'm not trying to sound negative but the facts are there are a lot of fundamental issues with the university that need wholesale changes. I really like Mike Cragg but he needs to be able to drain the swamp.
Agree with Dave, while the same players are on top, hard to see us being more than mediocre. Love what MA has done so far, but it all starts at the Bobby and crew. There is a reason we have sucked for last 20 years, must let Cragg run the show, with some oversight of course.
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before […] it became apparent he was the last resort.
Not quite the last resort dummy. We got the last resort.
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Not quite the last resort dummy. We got the last resort.
Nope hundreds, no thousands more could have turned us down you rear of a donkey.
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I have major concerns with current direction and schools ability to ever be successful. It’s less about CMA, he’s a good coach but I don’t think he maximizes potential here. I do think he can have a really good year with existing players next year
Your concerned with the current direction? We went from a coach that has zero head coaching experience, who didn’t go on the road to recruit, didn’t run his practices, who didn’t even run his own huddles during time outs. To a proven coach who has won every where he’s been. He has more NCAA tournament victories than we have appearances from the beginning of the millennium.
It’s clear your concerned with his ability to recruit.
We haven’t won a NCAA tournament game in 18 years!!! I don’t care how many stars are next to a recruits name, CMA will bring sustained success we haven’t seen in a while.
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Mike Anderson was a better choice than most of the other candidates that were pursued first by a good margin. Just because the search was spearheaded by a few bozos like gempesaw and Olivia at first doesn’t mean much. I think the guy we hired, if we weren’t gonna get a young up-and-comer, was the best choice by far. He has. Great overall record of success and is far from too old at 59.
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Julian Champagnie talks to Prep Circuit on his commitment to St. John's - "It’s really a dream come true"
https://www.prepcircuit.com/news_article/show/1025321
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So many people are so delusional. I like the hire of coach Mike Anderson but everyone saying this is such a great hire and all these recruits are phenomenal are out of your minds. Can we wait to see how the teams perform on the court before we say how great a coach is.
Also, calling Mike Cragg top notch already is a bit much. Again, I think he can be great for us if he is able to deliver on his vision, but the 2 idiots get involved way to much and I don't feel like that will change much. He needs full autonomy if we want this team and program to ever be successful.
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So many people are so delusional. I like the hire of coach Mike Anderson but everyone saying this is such a great hire and all these recruits are phenomenal are out of your minds. Can we wait to see how the teams perform on the court before we say how great a coach is.
Also, calling Mike Cragg top notch already is a bit much. Again, I think he can be great for us if he is able to deliver on his vision, but the 2 idiots get involved way to much and I don't feel like that will change much. He needs full autonomy if we want this team and program to ever be successful.
Has any one person said any of the recruits were phenomenal?
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This board is bi-polar.
You have the guys who don't want to give MA a chance and the guys who think he can't do anything wrong. I like this hire. MA has been successful everyone he has been. Don't see why he cant repeat that here. I loved Chris Mullin as a player. Don't think he was the right choice as a coach.
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Has any one person said any of the recruits were phenomenal?
Not exactly, but so many people say oh this recruit is perfect for coach Anderson's system! How on earth would they know by watching a high school youtube reel against crappy competition? I liked the hire and think he has a great track record, but I'm a realest, and until he does something well I will be skeptical.
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1. Do his job? Specifically? Who did he want that he didn’t get? Cluess? Hurley?
2. Sure he’s older. But do you come from the school of thought that to succeed here you need to be from the NE? Isn’t that a bit antiquated?
3. I don’t expect the same deal as other schools but you can’t argue the Nike brand means more to kids than UA.
4. What do you think we can afford? A totally new campus arena? Where’s that money coming from? If it hasn’t happened by now don’t think it’ll ever happen.
5. Winning fills the garden.
1. I think it was clear with all the flip flopping and interference the decisions were not his.
2. I don't think the coach has to be from the NE. Lavin worked. There is a huge culture shock from someone in the deep south their entire life to come to NYC. Not saying it can't work but probability isn't strong.
3. What would they prefer to buy at the mall maybe but for their college choice, no. There are numerous examples I could cite that would support that.
4. Carnesecca is like a used car that you need to keep taking to the mechanic. Is it wise to keep pouring money into it to fix or should you just come up with a plan and timeline to buy a new car?
5. Yes it would.
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1. I think it was clear with all the flip flopping and interference the decisions were not his.
2. I don't think the coach has to be from the NE. Lavin worked. There is a huge culture shock from someone in the deep south their entire life to come to NYC. Not saying it can't work but probability isn't strong.
3. What would they prefer to buy at the mall maybe but for their college choice, no. There are numerous examples I could cite that would support that.
4. Carnesecca is like a used car that you need to keep taking to the mechanic. Is it wise to keep pouring money into it to fix or should you just come up with a plan and timeline to buy a new car?
5. Yes it would.
Couldn’t agree more with #4
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3. What would they prefer to buy at the mall maybe but for their college choice, no. There are numerous examples I could cite that would support that.
Are you saying the Nike deal isn’t better than UA? Do you know the terms? Even though we had a tier 1 deal with UA Cragg wasn’t happy with it and thought we could get more. I’m assuming he did or why make the change.
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Are you saying the Nike deal isn’t better than UA? Do you know the terms? Even though we had a tier 1 deal with UA Cragg wasn’t happy with it and thought we could get more. I’m assuming he did or why make the change.
I am very curious- how does the branding work when we do deals with Nike or UA? Do the schools that pay more money to Nike get better Nike jerseys and same with UA? I have seen jerseys from other schools like Oregon etc that are the same company, but just better and not a plain design. How is that controlled?
I am kind of glad we went back to Nike with its tradition, but I am hoping we can move off from the plainness a bit.
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I am very curious- how does the branding work when we do deals with Nike or UA? Do the schools that pay more money to Nike get better Nike jerseys and same with UA? I have seen jerseys from other schools like Oregon etc that are the same company, but just better and not a plain design. How is that controlled?
I am kind of glad we went back to Nike with its tradition, but I am hoping we can move off from the plainness a bit.
Oregon athletics were built on the soles of Nike
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Are you saying the Nike deal isn’t better than UA? Do you know the terms? Even though we had a tier 1 deal with UA Cragg wasn’t happy with it and thought we could get more. I’m assuming he did or why make the change.
UA wanted out of St. John's deal. Felt they weren't getting enough out of it and basically chose to keep Seton Hall over us.
So I can't imagine Nike offering up much. Cragg might have a better relationship with rep which might lead to better servicing in terms of getting footwear or one off items for teams/athletes.
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I am very curious- how does the branding work when we do deals with Nike or UA? Do the schools that pay more money to Nike get better Nike jerseys and same with UA? I have seen jerseys from other schools like Oregon etc that are the same company, but just better and not a plain design. How is that controlled?
I am kind of glad we went back to Nike with its tradition, but I am hoping we can move off from the plainness a bit.
It really depends on the school. A major conference school is getting cash + product while a smaller school it purchasing product at a wholesale price.
IMO the model is really dated and outside of maybe a dozen schools brands do not see an ROI on these deals.
Duke, UNC, Texas, Notre Dame, UCLA, Louisville, Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Miami, Oklahoma, Auburn, Texas AM, Kansas, Maryland/Oregon are the big tickets and everything after that is significantly less. Even big schools like Clemson or South Carolina are significant drains on marketing dollars.
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That's interesting to me. Not understanding the economics of it, obviously, I live in Jersey, am connected to the sports/athletics scene, and can tell you that literally no one cares about Seton Hall. I know more fans of St. John's, Nova, Cuse, Duke, Notre Dame and even Rutgers.
UA wanted out of St. John's deal. Felt they weren't getting enough out of it and basically chose to keep Seton Hall over us.
So I can't imagine Nike offering up much. Cragg might have a better relationship with rep which might lead to better servicing in terms of getting footwear or one off items for teams/athletes.
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It really depends on the school. A major conference school is getting cash + product while a smaller school it purchasing product at a wholesale price.
IMO the model is really dated and outside of maybe a dozen schools brands do not see an ROI on these deals.
Duke, UNC, Texas, Notre Dame, UCLA, Louisville, Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Miami, Oklahoma, Auburn, Texas AM, Kansas, Maryland/Oregon are the big tickets and everything after that is significantly less. Even big schools like Clemson or South Carolina are significant drains on marketing dollars.
Makes sense but I just do not get- how we cannot at least get an alternate jersey like Oregon with like an angry johnny thunderbird above the numbers instead of a duck or a lightning bolt? It would look pretty cool. How is that much more to make? I get maybe we cannot glow in the dark one like Oregon, but just at least a better sense of style- I feel like a lot of people would want a cool jersey like that too.
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That's interesting to me. Not understanding the economics of it, obviously, I live in Jersey, am connected to the sports/athletics scene, and can tell you that literally no one cares about Seton Hall. I know more fans of St. John's, Nova, Cuse, Duke, Notre Dame and even Rutgers.
They've made the NCAA Tournament the last 4 years straight. The bar isn't high but that was a huge factor.
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Makes sense but I just do not get- how we cannot at least get an alternate jersey like Oregon with like an angry johnny thunderbird above the numbers instead of a duck or a lightning bolt? It would look pretty cool. How is that much more to make? I get maybe we cannot glow in the dark one like Oregon, but just at least a better sense of style- I feel like a lot of people would want a cool jersey like that too.
Not exactly sure what you're asking. Over the years St. John's has had plenty of alternate jersey and modifications from color scheme to logos.
In terms of priorities I'd say making something custom for St. John's when they're mediocre is probably low.
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I get that, but without having any metrics, the buzz and interest we got alone last year for having a 20+ win season under Mullin far eclipsed any interest the Hall has from the general public in their program.
They've made the NCAA Tournament the last 4 years straight. The bar isn't high but that was a huge factor.
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I get that, but without having any metrics, the buzz and interest we got alone last year for having a 20+ win season under Mullin far eclipsed any interest the Hall has from the general public in their program.
Apparently not.
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Apparently not.
You didn’t dump me. I dumped you first.
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You didn’t dump me. I dumped you first.
Kind of but I think both ultimately wanted out.
I think the level of attention to St. John's diminished over the years. There were shakeups in the reps and don't think the service was what St. John's wanted. Also UA is looking to trim fat and cut budgets and schools like St. John's are on the chopping block. If St. John's had a monster run in March I think UA would have said lets re-up.
On the flip side I think St. John's is somewhat delusional thinking they're a powerhouse program. I think the relationship from Coach K to Duke to Cragg to Nike is a comfort level that they feel they can leverage for better support and I don't think they're wrong.
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On the flip side I think St. John's is somewhat delusional thinking they're a powerhouse program.
And what would you call people concerned about Anderson not landing top talent for the upcoming season this late in the game after only being on the job 2 months?
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He is the lesser of the two brothers. I thought he was gonna wind up at A-10 level but thought if he went lower he'd be real impact. So definitely feel it's a reach for us.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight...... #freezingcoldtakes
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Riiiiiiiiiiiight...... #freezingcoldtakes
Unlike some people here, Dave owns up to being wrong about a recruit. He always has. He was wrong this time, and I’m pretty sure he’s glad he was.
The reminder here for all of us is that you can’t write the book for any 18 year old.
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I have repeatedly said how pleasantly shocked I've been at how well Champagnie has played and contributed. He's really played within himself and bought into his role which is expanding as a result.
While he's exceeded my expectations early on I'm still concerned with speed of game and physicality in Big East play. Ultimately every team we played is at or below where I thought he should have been playing with exceptions of Arizona St and WVU.
He had mixed results in those games which is more than expected early in freshman year.
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Tony, not sure what you're inferring. I don't think the school should have let go of Mullin. I've said that plenty. The issue was there needed to be major staff changes.
As for being one of the best available Champagnie was probably one of them. I would do whatever I could to convince Nah'shon Hyland to reclassify to 2019 and let him know he's my PG of the future, I'd look into Derryck Thorton to have a platoon option, and I'd put out a contact to Tevin Mack an excellent perimeter shooter with size.
Just wanted to bump this here. Our PG and shooting woes could have solved in early spring. While we showed mild interest in Thornton we didn't inquire about Hyland or Mack.
Hyland is breaking out for VCU just dropped 16 on Dayton then 21 in big win over St. Bonny.
Mack has been really good for Clemson all year. Was instrumental in their wins over UNC & Duke.
Derryck Thornton hasn't set the world on fire but leading scorer on bad Boston College team.
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Just wanted to bump this here. Our PG and shooting woes could have solved in early spring. While we showed mild interest in Thornton we didn't inquire about Hyland or Mack.
Hyland is breaking out for VCU just dropped 16 on Dayton then 21 in big win over St. Bonny.
Mack has been really good for Clemson all year. Was instrumental in their wins over UNC & Duke.
Derryck Thornton hasn't set the world on fire but leading scorer on bad Boston College team.
If you are asking me I don’t know. I have watched all of these teams once or twice. What year are these kids? Would the have prevented us from getting posh?
As for Rutherford. He has been very good. He can’t shoot for shit. But the kid played his heart out yesterday. He seems like a quiet kid. But I have to think he is a great leader. This kid is certainly limited. But he brings it every game. This is the kind of kid you bring in.
It would be hard to see how hard he was working on TV.
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If you are asking me I don’t know. I have watched all of these teams once or twice. What year are these kids? Would the have prevented us from getting posh?
As for Rutherford. He has been very good. He can’t shoot for shit. But the kid played his heart out yesterday. He seems like a quiet kid. But I have to think he is a great leader. This kid is certainly limited. But he brings it every game. This is the kind of kid you bring in.
It would be hard to see how hard he was working on TV.
This wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular.
Hyland is a true freshman.
Mack is grad transfer as is Thornton.
Did McGriff prevent Posh? Then Hyland shouldn't have either. Vastly more talented.
Swing and miss on Thornton then Rutherford it is. Mack would have essentially replaced Sears.
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Just wanted to bump this here. Our PG and shooting woes could have solved in early spring. While we showed mild interest in Thornton we didn't inquire about Hyland or Mack.
Hyland is breaking out for VCU just dropped 16 on Dayton then 21 in big win over St. Bonny.
Mack has been really good for Clemson all year. Was instrumental in their wins over UNC & Duke.
Derryck Thornton hasn't set the world on fire but leading scorer on bad Boston College team.
Tevin Mack of Clemson is a swingman not a PG.
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Tevin Mack of Clemson is a swingman not a PG.
That is correct
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I believe we just have to trust the staffs judgment on this. He’s trying to build a culture and seeing the effort Rutherford plays with I can see why Anderson would want him. I’m not familiar with those other players, but similar to Steere, it’s not just about talent but attitude as well.
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digging back into not too distant history, he reminds me a bit of brownlee; both really good around the basket, don't try to do too much, defend 3-4 sufficiently. if champagnie puts some more arc on his 3, i could see him being a 35% shooting from long range too. this was a really nice late pickup.
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Selected to Big East All-Freshman Team.
Congratulations Julian!!!
https://redstormsports.com/news/2020/3/8/mens-basketball-champagnie-garners-selection-to-big-east-all-freshman-team.aspx
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Congrats young man. Has had a great year, defying expectations set here. Looks like he will be an excellent 4 year kid for us. Hope he has a few more top performances in him this year.
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Like I said when we got him it was a good get by Anderson and staff. Penny had a very nice frosh campaign and only going to get better. And to think some on this board thought he couldn't play at this level. Way to prove the doubters wrong.
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Like I said when we got him it was a good get by Anderson and staff. Penny had a very nice frosh campaign and only going to get better. And to think some on this board thought he couldn't play at this level. Way to prove the doubters wrong.
Now do Earlington Garfinkel.
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Great way for this staff to make recruiting inroads by having their first NYC area kid greatly exceed expectations right out of the gate. Should help Van Macon bigtime because local kids and coaches have noticed
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He is the lesser of the two brothers. I thought he was gonna wind up at A-10 level but thought if he went lower he'd be real impact. So definitely feel it's a reach for us.
;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
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Now do Earlington Garfinkel.
Doubter #1. Own it.
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Doubter #1. Own it.
Champagnie looked rough his first few games, as most freshman do, but he has really figured out his role and plays smart.
I had a good feeling about a guy like ME who turned down offers to play football as a well regarded DE. Clearly a good work ethic and desire to find his strengths. Still surprised how athletic and fluid he has been with the ball this year.
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Doubter #1. Own it.
I'd never heard of Champagnie before he signed, which is why I didn't comment on him in this thread. What I said about him after seeing him play was that the front line of which he is a part was being overrated in the preseason based upon the ridiculously poor OOC schedule, which turned out to be spot on, that he was "impressive" and that "I wouldn’t want to play this front line in two years" and that he's "been a pleasant surprise and looks like an excellent four year player - he reminds me of Kyle Cuffe, except with a functioning frontal lobe." All of which makes you a liar. Own it.
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I could care less if a player is 3, 4, or no stars. It's more about potential, production, and how the player has competed against his peers. For instance he wouldn't sniff Gregg Gant at Providence, Dahmir Bishop at Xavier, or Khalif Battle at Butler. He might be on par with Oscar Lopez at DePaul who's also a bit of a reach but Lopez who's nickname is the Lion plays incredibly hard.
I guess I don't know exactly what "wouldn't sniff" means. Battle's averaging 3 ppg, Bishop averaged 1.6 over 10 games then transferred, Gantt's averaging 2.6. He's on par with Lopex, who's averaging .7 ppg. Champagnie's averaging 10 ppg, 6.5 rebs, shooting 45% from the field and 32% from 3. The craziest part is that he's actually improved over the last 10 games, as his usage has increased against really good competition.
I'm not trying to pile on, because there were a lot of bad takes in this thread. This is just to say that maybe this staff of professionals really does know how to identify talent and we should give them some time to build the roster with their guys before saying they can't recruit.
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I guess I don't know exactly what "wouldn't sniff" means. Battle's averaging 3 ppg, Bishop averaged 1.6 over 10 games then transferred, Gantt's averaging 2.6. He's on par with Lopex, who's averaging .7 ppg. Champagnie's averaging 10 ppg, 6.5 rebs, shooting 45% from the field and 32% from 3. The craziest part is that he's actually improved over the last 10 games, as his usage has increased against really good competition.
I'm not trying to pile on, because there were a lot of bad takes in this thread. This is just to say that maybe this staff of professionals really does know how to identify talent and we should give them some time to build the roster with their guys before saying they can't recruit.
I like Champagnie and don't want to pile on either, but what would the players Dave mentioned - none of whom I've ever heard of - done if they'd been third in minutes played and 4th in FG attempts on the 8th worst team in the conference? Probably they'd have better numbers. It's like what Branch Rickey told Ralph Kiner when he asked for a raise, we can come in last place without you.
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I like Champagnie and don't want to pile on either, but what would the players Dave mentioned - none of whom I've ever heard of - done if they'd been third in minutes played and 4th in FG attempts on the 8th worst team in the conference? Probably they'd have better numbers. It's like what Branch Rickey told Ralph Kiner when he asked for a raise, we can come in last place without you.
I mean I could imagine a whole lot of things in a world that doesn’t exist, but I’d rather focus on what they really are doing. Champagnie is the the only one with an Ortg over 100, he’s at 107.8. Some of those guys are in the 40s and 50s. He also has a 102 drtg during conference play. Ortg and drtg are not minutes dependent.
But yea, I guess champagnie is worse than the guy who couldn’t crack the lineup at 7th place Xavier and transferred out
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I mean I could imagine a whole lot of things in a world that doesn’t exist,
And you just did, which is why you ignored what I said in constructing your straw man, which they call them a straw man because straw men don't have brains, as evidently you don't, thanks for playing.
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And you just did, which is why you ignored what I said in constructing your straw man, which they call them a straw man because straw men don't have brains, as evidently you don't, thanks for playing.
good job. You win the internet today
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I guess I don't know exactly what "wouldn't sniff" means. Battle's averaging 3 ppg, Bishop averaged 1.6 over 10 games then transferred, Gantt's averaging 2.6. He's on par with Lopex, who's averaging .7 ppg. Champagnie's averaging 10 ppg, 6.5 rebs, shooting 45% from the field and 32% from 3. The craziest part is that he's actually improved over the last 10 games, as his usage has increased against really good competition.
I'm not trying to pile on, because there were a lot of bad takes in this thread. This is just to say that maybe this staff of professionals really does know how to identify talent and we should give them some time to build the roster with their guys before saying they can't recruit.
Look I've repeatedly said consistently throughout the season Champagnie has been pleasant surprise and has really bought into his role. Where and how he's playing is different than he was in high school. He's playing at high confidence level and as a freshman which is big for his development.
As far as comparing him to players I previously mentioned I don't think it's fair to use their stats when potential/talent doesn't dictate usage evenly across all teams. By this argument Champagnie is better than Wendall Moore on Duke.
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Here’s my take away on Champagnie. Coach started him, we all saw some potential. Mid-season, he loses his way some for whatever reason. He comes off the bench. He works. He starts again.
One thing I’ve noticed, now he’s not hesitating offensively. He’s a big dude who can put it on the floor and finish. Love to see him go to a big man camp this summer and learn a post up game.
I think he could give us 13 and 7.5 next year. That might get him on an all BE 3rd team. We’re gonna need him.
Excited to see what he brings to the Georgetown game.
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Here’s my take away on Champagnie. Coach started him, we all saw some potential. Mid-season, he loses his way some for whatever reason. He comes off the bench. He works. He starts again.
One thing I’ve noticed, now he’s not hesitating offensively. He’s a big dude who can put it on the floor and finish. Love to see him go to a big man camp this summer and learn a post up game.
I think he could give us 13 and 7.5 next year. That might get him on an all BE 3rd team. We’re gonna need him.
Excited to see what he brings to the Georgetown game.
I think this is a good take away. I'm less concerned with numbers as I am with him playing to his strengths and limiting his weaknesses.
His commitment to rebounding the ball and playing a role down low was something I didn't expect. If he can add on some muscle and become true stretch 4 that's big. As a 3 he wasn't skillful or athletic enough for this level but as a 4 he's got a chance.
Kudos again to him working hard, buying in, and never sulking. That's what we want out of St. John's players.
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good job. You win the internet today
Not the whole thing Shirley, just the small corner where you attempted reasoning.
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I think this is a good take away. I'm less concerned with numbers as I am with him playing to his strengths and limiting his weaknesses.
His commitment to rebounding the ball and playing a role down low was something I didn't expect. If he can add on some muscle and become true stretch 4 that's big. As a 3 he wasn't skillful or athletic enough for this level but as a 4 he's got a chance.
Kudos again to him working hard, buying in, and never sulking. That's what we want out of St. John's players.
Dave, I appreciate you are being a big man about this and giving Champagnie is due.
However, it should be dually noted that Dave was 100% right to be concerned about our recruiting. I love how hard Rutherford plays, but he’s outclassed at this level. Dunn is playing out of position, and I can’t figure out if he has a position. He’s not a point guard. He can’t shoot, so he’s not a shooting guard. You can’t be the guy who puts it on the floor and penetrates if they know you’re not gonna take a three. He reminds me a lot of Colin Charles. Another out of control speed demon who couldn’t shoot thanks to Brian Mahoney’s unique talent for finding the worst lead guards in the country year after year. Sears may help some next season. He had some moments this season, such as Arizona, but he’s not at all comfortable out there. I’m hoping he can give us leadership and minutes off the bench. The guy is in shape, and he does have some skills.
That said, while there are guards to replace Rutherford, Heron and maybe LJ, I think we need much more size than Sears, this twig juco and Josh Roberts, who we don’t even know will be recovered from shoulder surgery and be ready in time for the 20-21 season. I had thought Ian Steere was out the door, but maybe not.
What do you think? Can Coach Anderson reel in some game changers?
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but as a 4 he's got a chance.
You think?
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You think?
What happened to you, my man? When did you become so bitter
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What happened to you, my man? When did you become so bitter
Not sure what you’re referring too.
Dave was obviously not a fan. Now he’s changed his stance a bit. Still stating at this point that he “has a chance” (14 & 7 last 9 BE games), isn’t exactly enlightening. Especially when guys are patting him on the back for admitting he was wrong.
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Not sure what you’re referring too.
Dave was obviously not a fan. Now he’s changed his stance a bit. Still stating at this point that he “has a chance” (14 & 7 last 9 BE games), isn’t exactly enlightening. Especially when guys are patting him on the back for admitting he was wrong.
I think a lot of you guys get caught up on who's right or wrong instead of enjoying the discussion and debate that is sports. I think he played pretty well this year and was way more ready to contribute than I ever thought. I'll take being pleasantly surprised any and every day.
Champagnie can be our Sadiq Bey (also a big surprise for Nova) but he has to continue to fine tune his game and strengthen his body.
We also can't have guys like him be the best recruit of the class. You need the studs first and then a guy like Champagnie / Bey to become a pleasant surprise to compliment and round off a roster.
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I could care less if a player is 3, 4, or no stars. It's more about potential, production, and how the player has competed against his peers. For instance he wouldn't sniff Gregg Gant at Providence, Dahmir Bishop at Xavier, or Khalif Battle at Butler. He might be on par with Oscar Lopez at DePaul who's also a bit of a reach but Lopez who's nickname is the Lion plays incredibly hard.
Oof