6th Man of St. John's Basketball

St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 07:27:05 PM

Title: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 07:27:05 PM
Everyone knows what an amazing player Lance is. If Lance was to chose St. Johns theres no doubt we would win more games that season and have better fan attendence. Me personally and most NY basketball fans would love to see Lance play for St Johns.

Having said all that, lets please be real with ourselves. If Lance was to come to St Johns for just one season before jumping to the league, honestly how much positive contribution would he have to the basketball program at St Johns as a whole. The team would be so relient on him for that one season, how will they adjust once hes gone? If Lance were to come here and perform well for one season, all you angry posters would be happy for one season, and then once he leaves everyone will have the same attitude they do now, so what good will it really accomplish?
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: simplyred on April 20, 2009, 07:28:57 PM
If Lance comes, we win the NCAA's and everyone is happy for the next 60 years.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 07:30:50 PM
umm....no..even with Lance its highly unlikely St Johns will win the NCAA. Thats not being negative thats just being realistic.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: sjd8886 on April 20, 2009, 07:36:07 PM
media attention, first...second, seeing that given the opportunity (getting a top 10 recruit), norm can put a kid in the nba, other top recruits might give norm the same shot...also with recruiting, many recruits have mentioned that st johns would have been their destination, if it was a winning team, thus one winning season would help greatly if it produces more recruits...that being said i believe norm will never be a good coach, and eventually, in a big game (ncaa tournament) he will screw it up for the team, and all the good that could ever come from recruits pouring in would actually be condemning us to years of mediocrity, allowing us to be a possible sweet 16 team but never a final four team 
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 07:40:39 PM
yea the only positive effect i can think of is it might boost future recruiting. But that still doesnt adress the questions i raised in the first post.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: PEEKSKILLREDDEVIL on April 20, 2009, 07:50:55 PM
Norm can say i at least put someone in the NBA LOL. Lance coming could inspire others to take a chance on STJ.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 08:30:34 PM
Norm can say i at least put someone in the NBA LOL. Lance coming could inspire others to take a chance on STJ.

If Lance gets into the NBA, Lance will (deservingly) get all the credit, not Norm. Lance could go to a D3 school and hed still make it to the NBA. Like i said before, it still doesnt adress the questions i was raising earlier.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: pmg911 on April 20, 2009, 08:43:13 PM
umm....no..even with Lance its highly unlikely St Johns will win the NCAA. Thats not being negative thats just being realistic.

Even with Lance its highly unlikely St. John's makes the NCAA tournament next year.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
umm....no..even with Lance its highly unlikely St Johns will win the NCAA. Thats not being negative thats just being realistic.

Even with Lance its highly unlikely St. John's makes the NCAA tournament next year.

not true...obviously its impossible to predict to future but St Johns would def make the tournament at the end of the season and will even be ranked at some point throughout the season.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: pmg911 on April 20, 2009, 08:48:27 PM
umm....no..even with Lance its highly unlikely St Johns will win the NCAA. Thats not being negative thats just being realistic.

Even with Lance its highly unlikely St. John's makes the NCAA tournament next year.

not true...obviously its impossible to predict to future but St Johns would def make the tournament at the end of the season and will even be ranked at some point throughout the season.

Your optimism is great but prepare yourself to be disappointed...
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: jumpinjohnny on April 20, 2009, 08:53:54 PM
Everyone knows what an amazing player Lance is. If Lance was to chose St. Johns theres no doubt we would win more games that season and have better fan attendence. Me personally and most NY basketball fans would love to see Lance play for St Johns.

Having said all that, lets please be real with ourselves. If Lance was to come to St Johns for just one season before jumping to the league, honestly how much positive contribution would he have to the basketball program at St Johns as a whole. The team would be so relient on him for that one season, how will they adjust once hes gone? If Lance were to come here and perform well for one season, all you angry posters would be happy for one season, and then once he leaves everyone will have the same attitude they do now, so what good will it really accomplish?

I don't really see anyway it hurts us even if he only comes for one year.  Obviously if he's a complete headcase he could disrupt whatever chemistry the team has but I don't think it would be a big adjustment the following year.

If he somehow gets us to the NCAA it will give Norm some credibility with other big time recruits.  Norm will be able to say he got someone to the NBA and was able to win when he got a big time recruit.

Look at OJ Mayo and USC...USC became a destination for recruits again once he committed there.

Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 08:56:28 PM
umm....no..even with Lance its highly unlikely St Johns will win the NCAA. Thats not being negative thats just being realistic.

Even with Lance its highly unlikely St. John's makes the NCAA tournament next year.

not true...obviously its impossible to predict to future but St Johns would def make the tournament at the end of the season and will even be ranked at some point throughout the season.

Your optimism is great but prepare yourself to be disappointed...

not optimistic, realistic...St Johns beat notre dame and swept georgetown. They kept many games close agaisnt high powered teams, BC and Duke were close games. Some of the final scores of games are misleading but even with Uconn and other ranked BE teams St Johns kept the game close or tied at various points in the game. Next year we will only improve as our current player mature, the addition of Mase, the addition of Omari and Dwight to add depth at that position, and 3 other possible recruits we may or may not get. Either way, with the addition of Lance and all these factors just mentioned the tourney is practically a given.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 08:58:04 PM
umm....no..even with Lance its highly unlikely St Johns will win the NCAA. Thats not being negative thats just being realistic.

Even with Lance its highly unlikely St. John's makes the NCAA tournament next year.

not true...obviously its impossible to predict to future but St Johns would def make the tournament at the end of the season and will even be ranked at some point throughout the season.

Your optimism is great but prepare yourself to be disappointed...

not optimistic, realistic...St Johns beat notre dame and swept georgetown. They kept many games close agaisnt high powered teams, BC and Duke were close games. Some of the final scores of games are misleading but even with Uconn and other ranked BE teams St Johns kept the game close or tied at various points in the game. Next year we will only improve as our current player mature, the addition of Mase, the addition of Omari and Dwight to add depth at that position, and 3 other possible recruits we may or may not get. Either way, with the addition of Lance and all these factors just mentioned the tourney is practically a given.

not to mention the big east will be a significantly weaker confrence next season.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: boo3 on April 20, 2009, 08:59:49 PM
umm....no..even with Lance its highly unlikely St Johns will win the NCAA. Thats not being negative thats just being realistic.

Even with Lance its highly unlikely St. John's makes the NCAA tournament next year.

not true...obviously its impossible to predict to future but St Johns would def make the tournament at the end of the season and will even be ranked at some point throughout the season.

   How ironic you used the term REALITY in the title of this thread.   How many teams did the big east get into Tourney this year?  7?  In what was perhaps the best conference ever.  You think St. Johns will be in top seven of Big east next year?  Or will they get 10 teams in the NCAAs next year?  I don't see it.  Agree with PMG,  admire the optimisim,  but lets not get silly.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
umm....no..even with Lance its highly unlikely St Johns will win the NCAA. Thats not being negative thats just being realistic.

Even with Lance its highly unlikely St. John's makes the NCAA tournament next year.

not true...obviously its impossible to predict to future but St Johns would def make the tournament at the end of the season and will even be ranked at some point throughout the season.

   How ironic you used the term REALITY in the title of this thread.   How many teams did the big east get into Tourney this year?  7?  In what was perhaps the best conference ever.  You think St. Johns will be in top seven of Big east next year?  Or will they get 10 teams in the NCAAs next year?  I don't see it.  Agree with PMG,  admire the optimisim,  but lets not get silly.

read my last two posts
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: boo3 on April 20, 2009, 09:17:26 PM
  St John's average margin of defeat last year was something like 16 pts,  so i don't get your point there. There were no close games.This team averages 1.2 victories a year on the road during the Roberts era.  I guess that will all  change too with Lance.  I agree that the BE  will be weaker next year, but thats my point.  How many teams get in then?  Less than this year?  5?  St.john's a top 5 team in big east next year?  I don't think so.   BTW   Georgetown sucked this year.  especially at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 09:39:43 PM
like i said you cant judge a game by the final score....for example st johns was 2 points behind duke with less than 2 minutes left, a game can get out of control in the last few minutes. in a one possesion game with less then 2 minutes less lance wont be able to contribute? ofcourse he will. i believe we were actually leading uconn at the half in one of our games.dont judge a game on the final score.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Kmart28Jets on April 20, 2009, 09:44:28 PM
and beating louisville at half and within i think 5 against pitt at half...
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 20, 2009, 09:48:28 PM
Reality is we need to score more points, Lance knows how to do that. Reality is the Big East will be down from last year, his talent should push us up
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 09:57:32 PM
and beating louisville at half and within i think 5 against pitt at half...

yup
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 20, 2009, 10:00:51 PM
and beating louisville at half and within i think 5 against pitt at half...

yup

Exactly, and than what happenned. I bet we went into a scoring drought and it was over.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 20, 2009, 10:13:23 PM
yup thats due to lack of execution...my point is that will change if Lance was to come here. and contrary to what other posters are saying, if we were to win those types of games this season we would have made the NCAA.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: boo3 on April 20, 2009, 10:38:50 PM
  Lance brings scoring.  We need scoring.  no arguement.  But please guys,  lets not pretend we were a few lucky bounces away from making the NCAAs. Being close at halftime is not what we should strive for here.  You can't pick a few games which we were competetive for a few minutes and say "if we won".  Its absurd.  How about losing by 30 to Providence for most of that game?  I hope Lance comes.  I hope we make th Ncaa's.  Oh yeah,    we need a   PG.   That would help too.   My point to you BBall fan is that to say we will definitely make the NCAAs if Lance comes....is insane!   Come on man.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: sjd8886 on April 20, 2009, 11:29:11 PM
nothings definite, as is seen by the loaded teams that dont make the tourny every year...ND was a pick for the final four by some and look what happened...but, i agree that they would have a good shot with lance and being ranked at some point is very possible as well...nothing is a lock though
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: JohnnyJungle on April 21, 2009, 12:48:32 AM
I don't think the NCAA is out of reach next season with or without Lance. I think a lot depends on our OOC schedule but the conference is definitely inferior than it was last year and we're improving while other teams are taking a step back. This is not to say St. John's is now better than these teams but they could be. A lot is up in the air now but its all possible. Could it happen and will it happen are definitely two different things.


Also to touch upon games last season. I think its a stretch to say we kept games close. Did anyone ever have a feeling we had a chance in the Duke game while the game was on? I sure didn't. I think we screwed over Vegas a few times but other than that it wasn't close. I'd venture to say I thought we kept the UConn game closer than we did the Duke game.

There are still so many question marks surrounding this team but then again many teams around the conference also have question marks as well. I think the goal at this point should be to be in the top half of the conference. 8 or better. If we do that then there is serious chance at NCAA's and also safe to say we're heading in the right direction in terms of a program.

Also Lance would help tremendously, baggage and all I'd gladly take him for more reasons than 1. Ideally adding him and Parrom over Stith or Armstead would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 21, 2009, 01:02:01 AM
what reasons please specify?
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: boo3 on April 21, 2009, 08:08:16 AM
I don't think the NCAA is out of reach next season with or without Lance. I think a lot depends on our OOC schedule but the conference is definitely inferior than it was last year and we're improving while other teams are taking a step back. This is not to say St. John's is now better than these teams but they could be. A lot is up in the air now but its all possible. Could it happen and will it happen are definitely two different things.


Also to touch upon games last season. I think its a stretch to say we kept games close. Did anyone ever have a feeling we had a chance in the Duke game while the game was on? I sure didn't. I think we screwed over Vegas a few times but other than that it wasn't close. I'd venture to say I thought we kept the UConn game closer than we did the Duke game.

There are still so many question marks surrounding this team but then again many teams around the conference also have question marks as well. I think the goal at this point should be to be in the top half of the conference. 8 or better. If we do that then there is serious chance at NCAA's and also safe to say we're heading in the right direction in terms of a program.

Also Lance would help tremendously, baggage and all I'd gladly take him for more reasons than 1. Ideally adding him and Parrom over Stith or Armstead would be fantastic.

   Thanks for the dose of reality Dave.  Well said.  My question is that if St.John's finishes 8th this year. Does the BE get 8 teams in during a down year?  Especially when they only got seven this past season. Its possible i guess.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: redstormhoopsfan on April 21, 2009, 09:13:26 AM
Your optimism is great but prepare yourself to be disappointed...

I read somewhere that the school is considering that for our new tagline…

The St. John’s Redstorm: prepare yourself to be disappointed!

Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: we are sju on April 21, 2009, 11:41:17 AM
yup thats due to lack of execution...my point is that will change if Lance was to come here. and contrary to what other posters are saying, if we were to win those types of games this season we would have made the NCAA.

The above is a good example as to why posting while on an acid trip should be discouraged! I would suggest listening to the Dead, Floyd or Phish. Maybe watch Jacob's ladder or Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas but def do not post on a basketball forum. Tommorow when you come down you are going to look at what you have posted and be very embarrassed! 
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: peter on April 21, 2009, 12:04:27 PM
yup thats due to lack of execution...my point is that will change if Lance was to come here. and contrary to what other posters are saying, if we were to win those types of games this season we would have made the NCAA.
How is Lance alone going to be able to get the ball over half court?  To stop runouts off a long rebound?  It's not like Lance will be indefensible; I am sure Jamie Dixon and Rick Pitino will find a way to get the ball out of his hands (or make him take bad shots - from all accounts, his range is not his strength) and the rest of the team has to improve to sniff the NCAA bubble.

He is one player.  The team can get better, and I hope they will.  But Lance isn't the only difference; the team needed depth, turnover prevention on offense and turnover creation on defense (both which I think were lacking), more consistent interior scoring, more consistent perimeter scoring... Lance Stephenson can change some of that.  But he can also be a turnover-prone guard who feels that he needs to put the weight of the team on his shoulders (and turn the ball over while doing so. 

I'd like to dream big too, but I'm not talking NCAAs for this team. The gap between this squad and ANY of the NCAA Big East squads' offense is a gulf. 

I'll also note that some of the losses were competitive at times (Pittsburgh and U Conn for example); some involved a team that let a player who wasn't cutting it on the floor (Louisville and Terence Williams' hand - they were unnaturally bad that whole game); and some were not remotely competitive (PROVIDENCE, Marquette, Villanova).  With Lance, maybe the Louisville game is a win. 
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: kjd01067 on April 21, 2009, 01:44:01 PM
How is Lance alone going to be able to get the ball over half court?  To stop runouts off a long rebound?  It's not like Lance will be indefensible; I am sure Jamie Dixon and Rick Pitino will find a way to get the ball out of his hands (or make him take bad shots - from all accounts, his range is not his strength) and the rest of the team has to improve to sniff the NCAA bubble.

He is one player.  The team can get better, and I hope they will.  But Lance isn't the only difference; the team needed depth, turnover prevention on offense and turnover creation on defense (both which I think were lacking), more consistent interior scoring, more consistent perimeter scoring... Lance Stephenson can change some of that.  But he can also be a turnover-prone guard who feels that he needs to put the weight of the team on his shoulders (and turn the ball over while doing so. 

I'd like to dream big too, but I'm not talking NCAAs for this team. The gap between this squad and ANY of the NCAA Big East squads' offense is a gulf. 

I'll also note that some of the losses were competitive at times (Pittsburgh and U Conn for example); some involved a team that let a player who wasn't cutting it on the floor (Louisville and Terence Williams' hand - they were unnaturally bad that whole game); and some were not remotely competitive (PROVIDENCE, Marquette, Villanova).  With Lance, maybe the Louisville game is a win.

Maybe the post of the year Peter.  Lance is a great player no doubt but to say by his mere presence he will make us an NCAA team is a little far fetched.  This team with Lance and Omari has a ton of potential but how many times have we heard things referred to as having potential around here.  There is no doubt if this team lands Lance that we are instantly a better team but adding Lance also adds many question marks.  Here is to hoping we land Lance.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 01:56:56 PM
You guys are out of your minds. This is 1 of the best players EVER to come out of NYC. Hes going to be in the NBA soon. This team has thousands of questions marks from the school president to the towel boy and even down to us as fans. Why cant we add one more question mark who would be the best talent to come to this school since Artest?
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Tha Kid on April 21, 2009, 02:03:23 PM
Omar Cook. ;)
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 02:05:51 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Not The Sleaveless Guy on April 21, 2009, 02:08:29 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?
He's more talented, but Artest was much more of a team player.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Tha Kid on April 21, 2009, 02:18:13 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?

Barkley was better for us (and had more talent around him), but I believe Cook was more "talented" coming out of HS.  Just not as good a work ethic and teammate as Barkley.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 02:22:56 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?

Barkley was better for us (and had more talent around him), but I believe Cook was more "talented" coming out of HS.  Just not as good a work ethic and teammate as Barkley.

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0) check the poll

Tha kid, were you 1 of the 3 to vote for Cook?  ;) Does anyone know where Cook was rated in the top 100 rankings as compared to Barkley?
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: we are sju on April 21, 2009, 02:24:51 PM
You guys are out of your minds. This is 1 of the best players EVER to come out of NYC. Hes going to be in the NBA soon. This team has thousands of questions marks from the school president to the towel boy and even down to us as fans. Why cant we add one more question mark who would be the best talent to come to this school since Artest?

I think if Lance does come here the best comparison will be with Felipe Lopez, right down to the crappy coaches in place.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 02:26:26 PM
You guys are out of your minds. This is 1 of the best players EVER to come out of NYC. Hes going to be in the NBA soon. This team has thousands of questions marks from the school president to the towel boy and even down to us as fans. Why cant we add one more question mark who would be the best talent to come to this school since Artest?

I think if Lance does come here the best comparison will be with Felipe Lopez, right down to the crappy coaches in place.

Felipe was a basketball God coming out of high school,the best player in his class. Where does Lance rank in his class? top 10?
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 21, 2009, 02:27:14 PM
ok this is were everyone is getting it twisted...i never said lance will singlehandedly get us to the tournament...i said him in addition to our supporting cast and added depth next year will get us in. this man is the all time leading scorer in ny highschool bball passing telfair and marbury. the point is some posters were being overly negative by saying "even with lance we wont make the tournament." im not going to act like i can predict the future but with lance, it becomes extremely possible we have a good chance of getting in.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: we are sju on April 21, 2009, 02:28:25 PM
You guys are out of your minds. This is 1 of the best players EVER to come out of NYC. Hes going to be in the NBA soon. This team has thousands of questions marks from the school president to the towel boy and even down to us as fans. Why cant we add one more question mark who would be the best talent to come to this school since Artest?

I think if Lance does come here the best comparison will be with Felipe Lopez, right down to the crappy coaches in place.

Felipe was a basketball God coming out of high school,the best player in his class. Where does Lance rank in his class? top 10?
Just comparing the situations. Struggling team, awful coach, local kid viewed as a savior.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 02:32:08 PM
You guys are out of your minds. This is 1 of the best players EVER to come out of NYC. Hes going to be in the NBA soon. This team has thousands of questions marks from the school president to the towel boy and even down to us as fans. Why cant we add one more question mark who would be the best talent to come to this school since Artest?

I think if Lance does come here the best comparison will be with Felipe Lopez, right down to the crappy coaches in place.

Felipe was a basketball God coming out of high school,the best player in his class. Where does Lance rank in his class? top 10?
Just comparing the situations. Struggling team, awful coach, local kid viewed as a savior.

I agree, hopefully Lance,Parrom(God willing) Omari and Uncle Norm can take St Johns further than Fleipe,Zendon,Tarik and Mahoney ever did
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: we are sju on April 21, 2009, 02:34:54 PM
You guys are out of your minds. This is 1 of the best players EVER to come out of NYC. Hes going to be in the NBA soon. This team has thousands of questions marks from the school president to the towel boy and even down to us as fans. Why cant we add one more question mark who would be the best talent to come to this school since Artest?

I think if Lance does come here the best comparison will be with Felipe Lopez, right down to the crappy coaches in place.

Felipe was a basketball God coming out of high school,the best player in his class. Where does Lance rank in his class? top 10?
Just comparing the situations. Struggling team, awful coach, local kid viewed as a savior.

I agree, hopefully Lance,Parrom(God willing) and Omari can take St Johns further than Fleipe,Zendon and Tarik ever did

Maybe Fran will be re-hired before their senior year ;)
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: boo3 on April 21, 2009, 02:36:55 PM
You guys are out of your minds. This is 1 of the best players EVER to come out of NYC. Hes going to be in the NBA soon. This team has thousands of questions marks from the school president to the towel boy and even down to us as fans. Why cant we add one more question mark who would be the best talent to come to this school since Artest?

  Not 1 post in this thread where someone states that they don't want Lance.  No need to stir that pot.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: boo3 on April 21, 2009, 02:39:21 PM
ok this is were everyone is getting it twisted...i never said lance will singlehandedly get us to the tournament...i said him in addition to our supporting cast and added depth next year will get us in. this man is the all time leading scorer in ny highschool bball passing telfair and marbury. the point is some posters were being overly negative by saying "even with lance we wont make the tournament." im not going to act like i can predict the future but with lance, it becomes extremely possible we have a good chance of getting in.

  re-read your posts.  you said we would definitely make tournament and in another post said it with Lance it is practically a given.  Don't backtrack now.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: bball_fan on April 21, 2009, 02:43:12 PM
i know but im saying is not singlehandly becuase of lance, hes a major factor, not the only reason though.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Tha Kid on April 21, 2009, 03:11:20 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?

Barkley was better for us (and had more talent around him), but I believe Cook was more "talented" coming out of HS.  Just not as good a work ethic and teammate as Barkley.

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0) check the poll

Tha kid, were you 1 of the 3 to vote for Cook?  ;) Does anyone know where Cook was rated in the top 100 rankings as compared to Barkley?

I can't find the poll where is it - so no, I was not the one to vote for Cook!
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 03:27:54 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?

Barkley was better for us (and had more talent around him), but I believe Cook was more "talented" coming out of HS.  Just not as good a work ethic and teammate as Barkley.

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0) check the poll

Tha kid, were you 1 of the 3 to vote for Cook?  ;) Does anyone know where Cook was rated in the top 100 rankings as compared to Barkley?

I can't find the poll where is it - so no, I was not the one to vote for Cook!

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0)
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Tha Kid on April 21, 2009, 03:44:17 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?

Barkley was better for us (and had more talent around him), but I believe Cook was more "talented" coming out of HS.  Just not as good a work ethic and teammate as Barkley.

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0) check the poll

Tha kid, were you 1 of the 3 to vote for Cook?  ;) Does anyone know where Cook was rated in the top 100 rankings as compared to Barkley?

I can't find the poll where is it - so no, I was not the one to vote for Cook!

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0)

That's not the question that was posed here.  I voted for Barkley in that poll.  He was the better college player and I'd rather have him run my team.

A post here said Lance has the most talent coming out of HS since Artest, then someone said Barkley.  I think Cook was hyped more and had more talent, coming out of HS, than Barkley, barely.  That's what my contention is.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 03:49:48 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?

Barkley was better for us (and had more talent around him), but I believe Cook was more "talented" coming out of HS.  Just not as good a work ethic and teammate as Barkley.

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0) check the poll

Tha kid, were you 1 of the 3 to vote for Cook?  ;) Does anyone know where Cook was rated in the top 100 rankings as compared to Barkley?

I can't find the poll where is it - so no, I was not the one to vote for Cook!

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0)

That's not the question that was posed here.  I voted for Barkley in that poll.  He was the better college player and I'd rather have him run my team.

A post here said Lance has the most talent coming out of HS since Artest, then someone said Barkley.  I think Cook was hyped more and had more talent, coming out of HS, than Barkley, barely.  That's what my contention is.

I cant argue with that. Does anyone know where to find their High School rankings? Was Artest,Cook or Barkley top 10,top 50?
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Tha Kid on April 21, 2009, 03:52:27 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?

Barkley was better for us (and had more talent around him), but I believe Cook was more "talented" coming out of HS.  Just not as good a work ethic and teammate as Barkley.

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0) check the poll

Tha kid, were you 1 of the 3 to vote for Cook?  ;) Does anyone know where Cook was rated in the top 100 rankings as compared to Barkley?

I can't find the poll where is it - so no, I was not the one to vote for Cook!

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0)

That's not the question that was posed here.  I voted for Barkley in that poll.  He was the better college player and I'd rather have him run my team.

A post here said Lance has the most talent coming out of HS since Artest, then someone said Barkley.  I think Cook was hyped more and had more talent, coming out of HS, than Barkley, barely.  That's what my contention is.

I cant argue with that. Does anyone know where to find their High School rankings? Was Artest,Cook or Barkley top 10,top 50?


I believe all 3 of them were McDAAs so all very high.  My recollection, in terms of hype, is that it went Artest-Cook-Barkley, but I don't recall exact rankings.
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 03:55:45 PM
Omar Cook. ;)

Barkley was better I think. Is Stephenson better than Artest coming out of high school?

Barkley was better for us (and had more talent around him), but I believe Cook was more "talented" coming out of HS.  Just not as good a work ethic and teammate as Barkley.

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0) check the poll

Tha kid, were you 1 of the 3 to vote for Cook?  ;) Does anyone know where Cook was rated in the top 100 rankings as compared to Barkley?

I can't find the poll where is it - so no, I was not the one to vote for Cook!

http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0 (http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=1335.0)

That's not the question that was posed here.  I voted for Barkley in that poll.  He was the better college player and I'd rather have him run my team.

A post here said Lance has the most talent coming out of HS since Artest, then someone said Barkley.  I think Cook was hyped more and had more talent, coming out of HS, than Barkley, barely.  That's what my contention is.

I cant argue with that. Does anyone know where to find their High School rankings? Was Artest,Cook or Barkley top 10,top 50?


I believe all 3 of them were McDAAs so all very high.  My recollection, in terms of hype, is that it went Artest-Cook-Barkley, but I don't recall exact rankings.

After seeing Reggie Jessie play in High School, I thought he was going to be another great player at St Johns. He never got any better though, was he top 100?
Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: yankcranker on April 21, 2009, 05:46:57 PM
I use rscihoops.com for historical rankings.  That guy amasses the top 6-10 rankings and then averages them out thereby creating the closest to a consensus ranking you can find.  Problem is it only goes back to the HS class of '98 so Artest isn't included.  Can't really find archives on any of the major sites going back earlier.

FWIW in that class of 1998 for STJ AG was ranked 23, Erick 28, Ernest Brown 66. In 99 no STJ's in top 100, in 00 Cook was 12, Darius was 3, Diakite 52, in 01 nobody, in 02 Ingram was 28, 03-06 nobody, in 07 JB was 79, no one in 08.

Title: Re: Lance and reality
Post by: Marco Baldi on April 21, 2009, 06:03:19 PM
I use rscihoops.com for historical rankings.  That guy amasses the top 6-10 rankings and then averages them out thereby creating the closest to a consensus ranking you can find.  Problem is it only goes back to the HS class of '98 so Artest isn't included.  Can't really find archives on any of the major sites going back earlier.

FWIW in that class of 1998 for STJ AG was ranked 23, Erick 28, Ernest Brown 66. In 99 no STJ's in top 100, in 00 Cook was 12, Darius was 3, Diakite 52, in 01 nobody, in 02 Ingram was 28, 03-06 nobody, in 07 JB was 79, no one in 08.

Thanks yankcranker-thats a great site.  I cant believe Glover was ranked that high, better than Richard Jefferson,Udonis Haslem and a couple of other pros