6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: gonzalo on May 13, 2011, 02:43:05 PM
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I am not as optimist as another posters for next season but I think that 14th is very low.
http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/05/13/syracuse-louisville-lead-big-east-preseason-rankings/#more-52209 (http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/05/13/syracuse-louisville-lead-big-east-preseason-rankings/#more-52209)
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I am not as optimist as another posters for next season but I think that 14th is very low.
http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/05/13/syracuse-louisville-lead-big-east-preseason-rankings/#more-52209 (http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/05/13/syracuse-louisville-lead-big-east-preseason-rankings/#more-52209)
What number would you think?
And yes I think Zags is off his rocker with this.
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I'm one of those optimistic posters and I'll agree that 14th is "very low!" I believe we'll be between 7-10 (if, not higher) once the Big East season ends. I would take this early prediction and post it in in the lockers of the Johnnies players and maybe, they'll use it as ammunition.
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I think its a fair ranking. I do believe that they will prove themselves at the mid point of the big east season
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Biancardi of ESPN has us us as a 12 seed and ninth team in big east already.
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Biancardi of ESPN has us us as a 12 seed and ninth team in big east already.
Lunardi....but close enough.
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14 is too low. With ND losing Hansborough, Nash and now Carleton Scott I think SJU can mix it up with them let alone Georgetown, S. Florida, SHU and RU.
Between 8-11 is about right.
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last year's team had a lot of scoring woes going a number of minutes without a basket. this year's group has a lot more scoring ability from all over the floor. they will be inexperienced early but mid/late January, they will put things together. if they go 8-10 they will be in the middle of the pack.if they go 11-7 then Steve will be COY. I like setting expectations low because surprises can happen with good coaching.
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Please...They will only miss Hardy, Kennedy, and Brownlee. Hardy is the only player whose production may be difficult to replace since he was so good last year. Otherwise everyone else on the team was pretty much only good at defending, hence the offensive weakness of the team. I feel like offensively St. John's will actually improve despite the lack of experience because of the increase in talent...they'll take a step back on defense though. I'm thinking 8th-10th in the conference is fair. Maybe a NCAA bid on the back end if they get some key wins and avoid terrible losses which last years team didn't do in losing to Fordham and St. Bonaventure. 12 seed in the NCAA's or a high seed in the NIT next year I'd say. Then big things from then on.
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Please...They will only miss Hardy, Kennedy, and Brownlee. Hardy is the only player whose production may be difficult to replace since he was so good last year. Otherwise everyone else on the team was pretty much only good at defending, hence the offensive weakness of the team. I feel like offensively St. John's will actually improve despite the lack of experience because of the increase in talent...they'll take a step back on defense though. I'm thinking 8th-10th in the conference is fair. Maybe a NCAA bid on the back end if they get some key wins and avoid terrible losses which last years team didn't do in losing to Fordham and St. Bonaventure. 12 seed in the NCAA's or a high seed in the NIT next year I'd say. Then big things from then on.
So the team won't miss Horne? Boothe? Burrell? Evans?
I think thats kind of crazy.
Not that I'd shoot St. John's up but I'd certainly push Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, and South Florida down.
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I love low expectations. That much sweeter when they are proven wrong.
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I love low expectations. That much sweeter when they are proven wrong.
That only goes so far. Personally I get tired of slights especially when not much thought goes into it.
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I can DEFINITELY see us finishing 14th. I personally think we'll be in the 9th-12th range but 14th wouldn't surprise me too much. It's going to be extremely hard to win games in this conference with 10 first year players. While our recruiting class is VERY good the fact is that most of these players aren't top 30 talents and many of them need work to be solid contributers in the Big East. However, the fact of the matter is that this team can't really be predicted because we've never seen them play on the college level. I wouldn't be surprised to see us picked anywhere from 6th to 14th.
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adam zagoria should stfu and get a good haircut
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I can DEFINITELY see us finishing 14th. I personally think we'll be in the 9th-12th range but 14th wouldn't surprise me too much. It's going to be extremely hard to win games in this conference with 10 first year players. While our recruiting class is VERY good the fact is that most of these players aren't top 30 talents and many of them need work to be solid contributers in the Big East. However, the fact of the matter is that this team can't really be predicted because we've never seen them play on the college level. I wouldn't be surprised to see us picked anywhere from 6th to 14th.
adam zagoria should stfu and get a good haircut
We will play zones early and often which will help our learning curve on defense much like it did this past year. The difference is that instead of going 6 deep, we'll be going 12 deep. We'll also be taller, much faster, more athletic with more dynamic players than last season. I think our guys this coming season will do a better job than last season's guys were capable of at the defensive end. I think we'll also be a better team rebounding group. Add that to the fact that last season we had one big scorer in Hardy. This season, we'll have 3-5 guys who can really score and I think we'll be a lot better than 14th. I'm looking at the 6-10 range and another NCAA berth. Lavin has done it again and again at ucla and he will get these guys playing at a high level by mid season.
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I can see as low as 14 and as high as maybe 7. Honestly with as many freshman as we have coming in I dont think any prediction is outrageous this year unless someone tried picking us top 5
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Tim Abromaitis is back? Geez, that guy just wont go away. Him and Scoop Jardine.
I think Pitt is a lil too high, but I think that every year and they usually finish near the top. I would have Marquette at the 3
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Seton Hall ahead of us? I predict they finish behind Depaul. Syracuse isn't a top team. They lost their best player, and they have a supporting cast of assh*les. Pitt is my early pick. It's always the safest one. No world beater here. There are a lot of teams here that just don't scare me. I think on any night, any of them to lose to any conference team.
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What number would you think?
I think that we have a similar team (talent and experience) to Connecticut in 2006-07 season. Connecticut finished 12th in Big East that season. Five teams finished in the top 25.
So, I would expect 10-12th.
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I think 14 is just about right
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8Th and do not count on them playing a zone!
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This is what's going to be soooooooo interesting about next season. I can see a bunch of freshman finishing at the bottom of the BE but this is an incredibility gifted collection of talent and they could excel beyond expectations. I believe they will all need to adjust to the BE college game. They will struggle and show flashs and by mid seasons they will start to gel and impress (or at least I hope). I have complete faith in our coaching staff and they will get the team on the right track.
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8Th and do not count on them playing a zone!
They will be playing a zone. Dunlap likes zone. And its one of the reason they played it so much this year. Why tell a recruit your playing zone and then play man all year. They got to see the style of play we would be using.
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The zone is not going anywhere but I hope they mix in some more man to man throughout the year. I think it makes the zone more effective. Too many teams got "comfortable" against the zone and I think switching to man more often will help.
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The zone is not going anywhere but I hope they mix in some more man to man throughout the year. I think it makes the zone more effective. Too many teams got "comfortable" against the zone and I think switching to man more often will help.
Having longer players will help disrupt more teams on offense. Shorter guys we had could only close out so much.
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The zone is not going anywhere but I hope they mix in some more man to man throughout the year. I think it makes the zone more effective. Too many teams got "comfortable" against the zone and I think switching to man more often will help.
Having longer players will help disrupt more teams on offense. Shorter guys we had could only close out so much.
Agreed Moose. The guys recruited were to play in the defensive system we saw last year. I personally think that is the most underrated thing going into next season.
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8Th and do not count on them playing a zone!
They will be playing a zone. Dunlap likes zone. And its one of the reason they played it so much this year. Why tell a recruit your playing zone and then play man all year. They got to see the style of play we would be using.
Dunlap likes winning! It's the unexpected that give you an advantage.Last year was the zone this year we will see, I expect a greater reliance on man to man.
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8Th and do not count on them playing a zone!
They will be playing a zone. Dunlap likes zone. And its one of the reason they played it so much this year. Why tell a recruit your playing zone and then play man all year. They got to see the style of play we would be using.
Dunlap likes winning! It's the unexpected that give you an advantage.Last year was the zone this year we will see, I expect a greater reliance on man to man.
I expect we'll see constantly shifting defenses all season. But I agree we'll likely see significant man d - Pointer, Garrett, and Harkless are considred three of the top man defenders coming out of the prep ranks this year. It would be a waste of their talent's not to have them in the opponents grill. But on the other hand, this is the Big East - and there's a good chance that guys like Pelle and Polee might have trouble witht he physicality of Post players in conference in a man situation. Don't be surprised if Dunlap and Lavin brush the dust off an old chestnut like the "triangle and 2" and add it to the defensive arsenal.
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8Th and do not count on them playing a zone!
They will be playing a zone. Dunlap likes zone. And its one of the reason they played it so much this year. Why tell a recruit your playing zone and then play man all year. They got to see the style of play we would be using.
Dunlap likes winning! It's the unexpected that give you an advantage.Last year was the zone this year we will see, I expect a greater reliance on man to man.
If he likes winning like you say then we would have abandoned the zone thru the year when it hurt us. But we didn't. There were nights we played the zone to perfection. Play the Duke and Uconn games over and over if you need a reminder.
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Last year we didn't know what to expect, started ok, hit the wall and then finished strong. We'll have different talent this year but I can see a similar pattern. That translates to 10 -12 but hell on wheels in the BE tourney
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Best guess on this end....anywhere from 7-14. The league is so balanced that a bounce here or there is the difference in winning 7 conference games or 10. The key question is will we be in a position to win those games? Will we be in the 2 point games in the last 2 minutes? Most importantly, how will the freshmen react in that situation, especially on the road?
That is the difference between 7 and 14 in the final standings.
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14th???? He has S Florida at 11th! He has NO credibility! I'm going out on a limb with the #2 class in the country...5TH!!!!!!!!
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Agree with CR that we'll see a variety of defenses taking advantage of some of the bulldogs we brought in. Those losses where guys got hot from three are very avoidable with good on ball defenders. Hornewas about it last season and he couldn't guard everyone. The rest of the team was pretty ordinary on "D" although Hardy improved more than I thought he would. I think the zone suited us better but backfired on occasion and we didn't take enough advantage of the front court strength we did have. It'll be a whole new ballgame this year and a lot remains to be seen. Dunlap should have a field day with the pieces we have this time around.
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Simply put, the guys we brout in with this class are longer, faster and more athletic overall. This translates into improved ability to play ALL defenses from zones to man-d. Paris horne was considered such a solid defender because he was the only one we had with the lateral quickness and athleticism to keep with offensive players. This season we add about 9 guys who can move like Paris did.
We had some savvy players last year and some solid pieces, but nobody would consider the roster we hadmas being real quick overall. We looked that way sometimes because we played fast ball, but we had average speed roster-wise. Going to be a lot different with guys like Pointer, Garrett, Sampson and others rotating in the zone.
I too think we'll see more man-D than wemdid last year, but I think this team is built to mix defenses. It was mentioned when Lavin came aboard that he loved mixing offenses etc. In his days at ucla. Well it is both Lavin and Dunlap that love this hybrid style of ball. They love to mix things up to suit the tram's strengths as well as keep opponents on their toes. It will be a hallmark of SJU basketball as long as Lavin is here IMO.
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I think we'll finish higher than 14th. The drop off from this year will not be as bad as some are predicting.
Last year we had an average offense, which struggles at times, this year, were adding more offensive threats to the mix. I think it will take some time to find a solid offensive rhythm, but defense is where is see a big improvement.
Although we are losing size and experience this upcoming year, we are adding overall length and speed. this will help close in on the gaps on the open 3s that we let up last year. also i think the skill level of the players added will make up for some of the experience were losing, and they will only get better as time goes on.
My only major concern is low post play of other bigger more powerful forwards. We are really going to have to rely on length and positioning to prevent the entry passes into the paint. And collapse down low when the ball gets down there.
All in all, I'm predicting a middle of the pack finish. between 8-10. I think closer to an 8 though.
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We started the smallest front line in the BE last season. That eventually got Burrell the 6th man award but he and Evans didn't play together enough to enable us to cope with size in some cases. Then when DJ went down our midsize advantage was gone and too many changes were necessary. This year we're much better balanced and way more athletic. 14th is ridiculous IMO.
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I think we finish somewhere in the 8-10 slot.
Lavin said last year just before the season started that he preferred man to man defense but the team (then) wasn't suited for it. This one is and I think we see a lot more of it under certain circumstances but still will use the matchup zone. Look at how effective it was last year with less able manpower. The fly in its ointment was the hot shooter from three-point territory which killed us earlier in the season. We should be much better with that this year.
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I think we finish as high or higher than last season. Talent, skill, quickness, speed, individual defense - this team will be SUPERIOR to last years. The only thing 2011 had over this team is EXPERIENCE. We may not start out as strong - may not be 7-3 heading into conference like last year. Could be 5-5 or even worse. But with 10 games under their belts, that experience deficiency is really negated. I expect us to be as strong as last season or stronger in conference.
You know, with all the great reports coming out of IS8 that have got this board buzzing about the newcomers, there's still a good chance that Harrison (the only Parade All America we have coming in), and Lindsay & Achiuwa (both Jr. College All Americans) will be the three BEST newcomers - and we aren't even seeing THEM yet. (Anyone know why Harrison isn't at IS8?)
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theres a report crgreen that says harrison and pelle may be coming in next weekend to join harkless and sampsons squad. would be nice if greene showed up as well. That would make all seven highschool recruits at is8
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I think we finish as high or higher than last season. Talent, skill, quickness, speed, individual defense - this team will be SUPERIOR to last years. The only thing 2011 had over this team is EXPERIENCE. We may not start out as strong - may not be 7-3 heading into conference like last year. Could be 5-5 or even worse. But with 10 games under their belts, that experience deficiency is really negated. I expect us to be as strong as last season or stronger in conference.
You know, with all the great reports coming out of IS8 that have got this board buzzing about the newcomers, there's still a good chance that Harrison (the only Parade All America we have coming in), and Lindsay & Achiuwa (both Jr. College All Americans) will be the three BEST newcomers - and we aren't even seeing THEM yet. (Anyone know why Harrison isn't at IS8?)
Why would you think Harrison 'should' be at IS8? I mean a couple of the close by recruits have been playing there. Pointer is the farthest who's made multiple trips up. Amir made just 1. Who knows if they won if he would return next weekend. I'm pleasantly surprised that Harrison and Pelle might be coming but hardly from expecting it.
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I think we finish somewhere in the 8-10 slot.
Lavin said last year just before the season started that he preferred man to man defense but the team (then) wasn't suited for it. This one is and I think we see a lot more of it under certain circumstances but still will use the matchup zone. Look at how effective it was last year with less able manpower. The fly in its ointment was the hot shooter from three-point territory which killed us earlier in the season. We should be much better with that this year.
I think Lavin preferred the man but Dunlap preferred the matchup zone. In addition remember that 90 feet of heat we had in the beginning of the year. It pretty much disappeared towards the end of the year because we didn't have the horses. I expect that to return.
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USF takes a hit as Sr. PG Anthony Crater is dismissed.
http://bit.ly/lJzD8J (http://bit.ly/lJzD8J)
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...(Anyone know why Harrison isn't at IS8?)
Only mention of it came in Adam Zagoria's blog yesterday:
"...And Harkless and Sampson could be joined for that game [IS8 semifinal game next Saturday] by fellow St. John’s signees D’Angelo Harrison, a 6-3 guard from Texas, and Norvel Pelle, a 6-10 center from California.
`I’m going to see if they’re available,' Real Scout coach Nate Blue said of Harrison and Pelle. `If they’re available, then there’s a great chance that they’ll be here.'
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Looking ahead to the semis, Real Scout could potentially feature four St. John’s signees in Harkless, Sampson, Harrison and Pelle.
`Definitely Norvel, I don’t know about D’Angelo,' Sampson said. `That’s going to be fun, that’s going to be fun.'”
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...(Anyone know why Harrison isn't at IS8?)
Only mention of it came in Adam Zagoria's blog yesterday:
"...And Harkless and Sampson could be joined for that game [IS8 semifinal game next Saturday] by fellow St. John’s signees D’Angelo Harrison, a 6-3 guard from Texas, and Norvel Pelle, a 6-10 center from California.
`I’m going to see if they’re available,' Real Scout coach Nate Blue said of Harrison and Pelle. `If they’re available, then there’s a great chance that they’ll be here.'
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Looking ahead to the semis, Real Scout could potentially feature four St. John’s signees in Harkless, Sampson, Harrison and Pelle.
`Definitely Norvel, I don’t know about D’Angelo,' Sampson said. `That’s going to be fun, that’s going to be fun.'”
http://bit.ly/jP7qIE (http://bit.ly/jP7qIE)
No Pelle at IS8 per this tweet.
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Think St Johns will be better than Rutgers next year?
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i do baldi
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i do baldi
Its tough, theyll have a nice frontcourt with Biruta,Randall,Jack and Dane Miller. Some good guards too, I like Mack alot
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I like their team and their coach I just think well be to0 deep for them and I hope our zone gives biruta problems cause he is there one big advantage.
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i do baldi
Its tough, theyll have a nice frontcourt with Biruta,Randall,Jack and Dane Miller. Some good guards too, I like Mack alot
They'll be much improved with a talent upgrade and experience in Biruta and Miller
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i do baldi
Its tough, theyll have a nice frontcourt with Biruta,Randall,Jack and Dane Miller. Some good guards too, I like Mack alot
They'll be much improved with a talent upgrade and experience in Biruta and Miller
Ya, I think Biruta will be the best big man in the conference the next 3 years, beast. Looking at their recruiting page on rivals, Jerome Seagers is 4 stars-Myles Mack is 3. Do both start or is Mike Poole the SG?