Game 30: @ Creighton

Creighton recap: http://www.bigeastboards.com/

You guys can be as positive as you want. In the last 10 games when we played "better" we gave up 80 plus 9 times. We held one team to 78 points. We gave up 90 plus 3 times and a whopping 110 points. These are not minor issues. Winning teams dont do this. No team that I can remember has ever been this bad defensively. Shot selection last night again was horrible.

I have no words for Amar shooting a 3 point shot in transition.  How can that be allowed? Next year many of our players will turn 21 years old, are they still going to be to young ? Is aau going to be the problem?

This was the softest team in school history.

You guys can be as positive as you want. In the last 10 games when we played "better" we gave up 80 plus 9 times. We held one team to 78 points. We gave up 90 plus 3 times and a whopping 110 points. These are not minor issues. Winning teams dont do this. No team that I can remember has ever been this bad defensively. Shot selection last night again was horrible.

I have no words for Amar shooting a 3 point shot in transition.  How can that be allowed? Next year many of our players will turn 21 years old, are they still going to be to young ? Is aau going to be the problem?

This was the softest team in school history.

What do you think of this teams potential next year?

Last night during the game, one of the announcers brought up after the camera panned on Mullin, that the players have the same demeanor as Mullin, which is calm.  Now I believe at that point, we were losing and announcer was trying to make point that our team does not panic, but I was looking at it differently.  I believe Mullin is not fired up enough.  He still has that NBA mantra about him that will not fly on the college level.  These kids need him to be in there face constantly.  I mean we make the same mistakes over and over again, and it just seems as though only a few guys take it to heart. 

I believe the reason why the team is so soft is because it comes from the top.  Maybe next year with better players playing, some of these kids will fear for playing time, but that message has to be instilled from day one of the off season.

Last night during the game, one of the announcers brought up after the camera panned on Mullin, that the players have the same demeanor as Mullin, which is calm.  Now I believe at that point, we were losing and announcer was trying to make point that our team does not panic, but I was looking at it differently.  I believe Mullin is not fired up enough.  He still has that NBA mantra about him that will not fly on the college level.  These kids need him to be in there face constantly.  I mean we make the same mistakes over and over again, and it just seems as though only a few guys take it to heart. 

I believe the reason why the team is so soft is because it comes from the top.  Maybe next year with better players playing, some of these kids will fear for playing time, but that message has to be instilled from day one of the off season.

John Wooden did not get in his players' faces and he seemed to be successful just sitting with rolled up program during the game.  You may forget the Rice "experience" at Rutgers but he treated his players like dirt, in their faces during games-it did not work.

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

Like having someone on staff who can teach defense and get in players faces when they mail it in

On redmen message boards someone broke down +/- for Malik last night.....For all the Ellison Love/Hate. Post from message board below:

Ellison was -18 in the first half. Rest of team was +5 without Malik on the floor, a 23 point swing.

Second half was a little better. Ellison was -5, rest of the team was +4 without Malik on the floor, a 9 point swing.

For the game Ellison was -23. The rest of the team was +9 without Malik on the floor, a 32 point swing.

If you remove a -3 for rest of team and a +3 for Ellison when the game got out of hand in the last few minutes, it's -26 and +12, a 38 point swing in ~36 minutes of basketball.

And it wasn't like it was only driven by one good/bad run or something. If you remove the end of the game, Ellison had 6 sessions on the court. Only 1 was positive, a +1 when he scored the 8 quick points. Over same stretch of game the rest of the team had 5 sessions without Ellison on the court. Only 1 was negative, a -2 in the last 30 seconds of the 1st half when Creighton had a tip in near the buzzer.

Individual +/- is a flawed statistic in my view, especially in small samples. I don't think one player being +4 and another being -4 in a game is statistically meaningful, or even necessarily means the player in the positive had a better game. Bigger fan of +/- for entire 5-player combinations.

But when the numbers are extreme it's difficult to ignore. And these numbers are absolutely astounding. Especially for a player that played the third most minutes on the team last night after playing the second most against Georgetown, while not playing particularly well in either game.

Plenty of other guys didn't play well last night, but this seems to be a growing trend for Ellison with significant minutes for not a lot of production. What is the staff trying to accomplish here?

There is some merit here but like you stated the +/- is a flawed metric. It doesn't account for who else is in lineup or what lineup they are going against.

On redmen message boards someone broke down +/- for Malik last night.....For all the Ellison Love/Hate. Post from message board below:

Ellison was -18 in the first half. Rest of team was +5 without Malik on the floor, a 23 point swing.

Second half was a little better. Ellison was -5, rest of the team was +4 without Malik on the floor, a 9 point swing.

For the game Ellison was -23. The rest of the team was +9 without Malik on the floor, a 32 point swing.

If you remove a -3 for rest of team and a +3 for Ellison when the game got out of hand in the last few minutes, it's -26 and +12, a 38 point swing in ~36 minutes of basketball.

And it wasn't like it was only driven by one good/bad run or something. If you remove the end of the game, Ellison had 6 sessions on the court. Only 1 was positive, a +1 when he scored the 8 quick points. Over same stretch of game the rest of the team had 5 sessions without Ellison on the court. Only 1 was negative, a -2 in the last 30 seconds of the 1st half when Creighton had a tip in near the buzzer.

Individual +/- is a flawed statistic in my view, especially in small samples. I don't think one player being +4 and another being -4 in a game is statistically meaningful, or even necessarily means the player in the positive had a better game. Bigger fan of +/- for entire 5-player combinations.

But when the numbers are extreme it's difficult to ignore. And these numbers are absolutely astounding. Especially for a player that played the third most minutes on the team last night after playing the second most against Georgetown, while not playing particularly well in either game.

Plenty of other guys didn't play well last night, but this seems to be a growing trend for Ellison with significant minutes for not a lot of production. What is the staff trying to accomplish here?

Tremendous post. I would imagine his +/- was much worse for Gtown since we made our 17-0 run when he went tot the bench for Mussini and they made their 17-0 run right after that with him on the floor. The kid has size and legit guard skills, he just doesn't have the effort and focus right now and that is extremely frustrating. We'd be a NCAA caliber team if we sawapped him for Pointer as a soph.

Quote from: talkbigeast on March 01, 2017, 09:46:18 AM

On redmen message boards someone broke down +/- for Malik last night.....For all the Ellison Love/Hate. Post from message board below:

Ellison was -18 in the first half. Rest of team was +5 without Malik on the floor, a 23 point swing.

Second half was a little better. Ellison was -5, rest of the team was +4 without Malik on the floor, a 9 point swing.

For the game Ellison was -23. The rest of the team was +9 without Malik on the floor, a 32 point swing.

If you remove a -3 for rest of team and a +3 for Ellison when the game got out of hand in the last few minutes, it's -26 and +12, a 38 point swing in ~36 minutes of basketball.

And it wasn't like it was only driven by one good/bad run or something. If you remove the end of the game, Ellison had 6 sessions on the court. Only 1 was positive, a +1 when he scored the 8 quick points. Over same stretch of game the rest of the team had 5 sessions without Ellison on the court. Only 1 was negative, a -2 in the last 30 seconds of the 1st half when Creighton had a tip in near the buzzer.

Individual +/- is a flawed statistic in my view, especially in small samples. I don't think one player being +4 and another being -4 in a game is statistically meaningful, or even necessarily means the player in the positive had a better game. Bigger fan of +/- for entire 5-player combinations.

But when the numbers are extreme it's difficult to ignore. And these numbers are absolutely astounding. Especially for a player that played the third most minutes on the team last night after playing the second most against Georgetown, while not playing particularly well in either game.

Plenty of other guys didn't play well last night, but this seems to be a growing trend for Ellison with significant minutes for not a lot of production. What is the staff trying to accomplish here?

Tremendous post. I would imagine his +/- was much worse for Gtown since we made our 17-0 run when he went tot the bench for Mussini and they made their 17-0 run right after that with him on the floor. The kid has size and legit guard skills, he just doesn't have the effort and focus right now and that is extremely frustrating. We'd be a NCAA caliber team if we sawapped him for Pointer as a soph.

Only way this team is ncaa caliber if it was senior Pointer.

I have hope for Ellison. But I don't think he will ever get where I think he could be.

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 01, 2017, 12:04:22 PM

You guys can be as positive as you want. In the last 10 games when we played "better" we gave up 80 plus 9 times. We held one team to 78 points. We gave up 90 plus 3 times and a whopping 110 points. These are not minor issues. Winning teams dont do this. No team that I can remember has ever been this bad defensively. Shot selection last night again was horrible.

I have no words for Amar shooting a 3 point shot in transition.  How can that be allowed? Next year many of our players will turn 21 years old, are they still going to be to young ? Is aau going to be the problem?

This was the softest team in school history.

What do you think of this teams potential next year?

I think next year we could potentially  the tournament . But their has to be a change made somewhere. I think st. Jean is a good coach. But he hasn't stressed defense and rebounding enough. Players like Chris mullin, Mitch Richmond , and deangelo Harrison should have freedom and always have the green light . Role players need a more defined role. And need to be held more accountable. Shot selection has to improve. No reason to take quick 3 pointers, especially by role players.