Here is the deal

Quote from: survivedc on January 12, 2018, 03:12:42 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 02:58:12 PM

Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.

It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU.  Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play.  That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well.  Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.

We also don't know who'll even be here next season.  If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections.  In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it.  Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.

Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now.  But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.

Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.

Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops.  There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning.  If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.

Obviously you don't have an answer to my question. If you're so certain someone will leave would you care to enlighten us as to who it might be? And no, I don't pay attention to college hoops. I stumbled on this forum for a mediocre to bad program a couple years ago and bored as I was decided I'd run with it and see how many threads I could derail.

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:19:12 PM

Quote from: survivedc on January 12, 2018, 03:12:42 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 02:58:12 PM

Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.

It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU.  Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play.  That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well.  Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.

We also don't know who'll even be here next season.  If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections.  In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it.  Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.

Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now.  But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.

Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.

Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops.  There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning.  If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.

Obviously you don't have an answer to my question. If you're so certain someone will leave would you care to enlighten us as to who it might be? And no, I don't pay attention to college hoops. I stumbled on this forum for a mediocre to bad program a couple years ago and bored as I was decided I'd run with it and see how many threads I could derail.

Because it's a dumb question that I can't answer.  I don't know exactly who'll leave (and, if I did know and decided not to say so, then that's my prerogative).  But, I do know how the college game works, and how kids do not like to be associated with losing and instability.  Besides, when did I mention who I know or think will leave?  I didn't say such, so stop with the fallacy.  If you pay attention to college hoops, as you sarcastically stated, then don't act so dimwitted to what goes on in the game.

Even, if it is Yakwe and Trimble, as you mentioned....  Those are still defections.  There will also likely be a "holding of hands," per se'. 

Quote from: survivedc on January 12, 2018, 03:59:28 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:19:12 PM

Quote from: survivedc on January 12, 2018, 03:12:42 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 02:58:12 PM

Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.

It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU.  Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play.  That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well.  Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.

We also don't know who'll even be here next season.  If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections.  In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it.  Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.

Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now.  But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.

Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.

Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops.  There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning.  If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.

Obviously you don't have an answer to my question. If you're so certain someone will leave would you care to enlighten us as to who it might be? And no, I don't pay attention to college hoops. I stumbled on this forum for a mediocre to bad program a couple years ago and bored as I was decided I'd run with it and see how many threads I could derail.

Because it's a dumb question that I can't answer.  I don't know exactly who'll leave (and, if I did know and decided not to say so, then that's my prerogative).  But, I do know how the college game works, and how kids do not like to be associated with losing and instability.  Besides, when did I mention who I know or think will leave?  I didn't say such, so stop with the fallacy.  If you pay attention to college hoops, as you sarcastically stated, then don't act so dimwitted to what goes on in the game.

Even, if it is Yakwe and Trimble, as you mentioned....  Those are still defections.  There will also likely be a "holding of hands," per se'. 

Apologies for asking you to clarify a point you made in a previous post. I'll make sure to keep my mouth shut and let the adults talk from now on.

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:19:12 PM

Quote from: survivedc on January 12, 2018, 03:12:42 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 02:58:12 PM

Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.

It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU.  Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play.  That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well.  Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.

We also don't know who'll even be here next season.  If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections.  In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it.  Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.

Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now.  But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.

Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.

Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops.  There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning.  If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.

Spot on. Nor should it come as any surprise as another posted pointed out how many defections there have been under the Mullin regime.

How many defections of his own players have there been exactly. Mussini and Fredudenberg turned pro, Ellison and Sima transferred, and Williams graduated. Are we counting Lavins players, Jones, De La Rosa, Jordan and Obekpa? Oh and the all important walk on Holifield. I count two legitimate transfers. Lavin lost Polee, Stith, Q Roberts, Harkless, Lindsey, Garrett, Hooper and Sampson. Seems roughly equivalent.

The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.

Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.

Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler.  We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!

You're absolutely correct. I almost feel like at this point people are rooting against St. John's on this board so their over-the-top statements about Mullin/the program become correct.

Quote from: Johnny23 on January 12, 2018, 03:29:52 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:19:12 PM

Quote from: survivedc on January 12, 2018, 03:12:42 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 12, 2018, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 02:58:12 PM

Next year was going to be big year for him regardless. W/o Lovett just don't want two more months of Mullin sucks and should be fired and I want a Hurley inside me threads. We are going to suck. 2 maybe 3 wins. It is what it is and he probably won't and shouldn't be fired. Let's regroup and hope we are good next year. But some on here will root for us to suck next year so that Mullin can be fired and the cycle can continue with Cluess.

It's the style of ball we're playing, WASJU.  Loses are inevitable, but I'm no fan of our style of play.  That was even with LoVett being healthy, as well.  Overall, it's been a not-so-good, brand of ball and poor coaching on both sides of the ball.

We also don't know who'll even be here next season.  If our season continues to go down this ugly and bizarre road, then they'll likely be defections.  In this day and time, if kids have another avenue then they'll take it.  Too many of 'em don't like to associated with losing and instability.

Hopefully, we can get it together and win 4 or 5 conference games to show some form of gumption and we're gonna right the ship a season from now.  But, if we don't do so, be prepared to see a defection or two and one or two not make it to campus.

Who do you see leaving? Three guys on the team have already sat a year for transferring and Ponds is already the man at a program and city he is comfortable with. Yakwe and Trimble are the only guys I could see leaving and I would be pretty surprised if that happened.

Obviously, you don't pay attention to college hoops.  There's always the potential for defections, even if a team is winning.  If a team is losing, along with possible instability, then there's usually gonna be defections of some kind.

Spot on. Nor should it come as any surprise as another posted pointed out how many defections there have been under the Mullin regime.

How many defections of his own players have there been exactly. Mussini and Fredudenberg turned pro, Ellison and Sima transferred, and Williams graduated. Are we counting Lavins players, Jones, De La Rosa, Jordan and Obekpa? Oh and the all important walk on Holifield. I count two legitimate transfers. Lavin lost Polee, Stith, Q Roberts, Harkless, Lindsey, Garrett, Hooper and Sampson. Seems roughly equivalent.

If there is one thing I would give you credit for it is being accurate with facts. However your above post contains several inaccuracies. To say Williams graduated focuses on his academic standing, basketball eligibility wise in did in fact transfer to play for another school. Also you say Mussini and Freud turned pro seemingly  making it sound like those don't count against Mullin while listing Harkless and Sampson as losses for Lavin. Please do not respond to this post because if you counter my assertions I guarantee I will not understand your argument. Thank you in advance for your consideration of this matter.

If there is one thing I would give you credit for it is being accurate with facts. However your above post contains several inaccuracies. To say Williams graduated focuses on his academic standing, basketball eligibility wise in did in fact transfer to play for another school. Also you say Mussini and Freud turned pro seemingly  making it sound like those don't count against Mullin while listing Harkless and Sampson as losses for Lavin. Please do not respond to this post because if you counter my assertions I guarantee I will not understand your argument. Thank you in advance for your consideration of this matter.

Sorry, I cannot oblige you.

I fairly represent facts fairly because I am not a post modernist: I believe there is a single universal truth. That is, there are things that having happened have happened. There is not, as nice persons like Oprah believe, various truths: there are no your truths, there is just truth. Interpretation of facts is another thing entirely. We are entitled to our own experiences. But to believe that subjective interpretation of reality comprises truth comprises insanity.

That said, Williams, a player having graduated leaving - and who was just this day dismissed to the team he went to play for - does not constitute  a defection. Mullin's players who went pro offset Lavin's who also went pro. The small point I was making is that nothing unprecedented regarding the roster is going on. The larger point is that things are bad enough - and things are bad enough - without creating crisis where none exists.

Mullin hating posting is the "vile and pernicious" work of sacrilegious, treasonous traitors.

Hollywood had two Ncaa and two Nit bids in five seasons.  That is nothing short of a small miracle on Union and Utopia.  People should come to praise Lavin, not bury him.

Finished an angstrom away from four of five Ncaa tournaments. 

1) The 3'lo suspension season as was mentioned earlier in the thread and

2) One Max Hooper freeze up and no call under the basket at Alumni vs. Providence or one disconcerted D'lo free throw miss; or one Sampson foul on a three point chuck; or one overtime Thc induced brain rush turnover by Obepka at Barclays's against Penn State the following season.

Quote from: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 01:20:03 PM

The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.

Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.

Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler.  We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!

More or less agree with this. However, I had no issue moving on from Lavin - thought he was lazy and his heart wasn't in it - with the understanding that there was no slam dunk hire/silver bullet. This is clearly not an easy place to succeed otherwise someone would have figured it out over the last 25 yrs.

 

As someone who was critical of this hiring at the time it occurred I can still get behind the fact that Lavin did not have the heart in the job he did early.  After the 2011 season he had cancer in 11 and 12.  His dad died in the middle of the next season.  And while I can't find any supporting information anywhere I distinctly remember hearing somewhere that he and his wife were having major issues around the time of the last season.  So yeah, he seemed distracted and his recruiting appeared to suffer quite a bit the last couple years.

That said if they were going to let him go I was very much in favor of hiring a coach, not a symbol.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 12, 2018, 01:27:47 PM

Chris Mullin = Santa Claus for St. John’s fans over 50

If Mullin is Santa that makes Danny Hurley the tooth fairy.

Danny Hurley is dancing this year. Mullin won’t sniff the NIT in his 3rd year.  Lavin for all of his shortcomings wasn’t just better than Mullin, he was much better.

Quote from: Celtics11 on January 12, 2018, 06:14:20 PM

If there is one thing I would give you credit for it is being accurate with facts. However your above post contains several inaccuracies. To say Williams graduated focuses on his academic standing, basketball eligibility wise in did in fact transfer to play for another school. Also you say Mussini and Freud turned pro seemingly  making it sound like those don't count against Mullin while listing Harkless and Sampson as losses for Lavin. Please do not respond to this post because if you counter my assertions I guarantee I will not understand your argument. Thank you in advance for your consideration of this matter.

Sorry, I cannot oblige you.

I fairly represent facts fairly because I am not a post modernist: I believe there is a single universal truth. That is, there are things that having happened have happened. There is not, as nice persons like Oprah believe, various truths: there are no your truths, there is just truth. Interpretation of facts is another thing entirely. We are entitled to our own experiences. But to believe that subjective interpretation of reality comprises truth comprises insanity.

That said, Williams, a player having graduated leaving - and who was just this day dismissed to the team he went to play for - does not constitute  a defection. Mullin's players who went pro offset Lavin's who also went pro. The small point I was making is that nothing unprecedented regarding the roster is going on. The larger point is that things are bad enough - and things are bad enough - without creating crisis where none exists.

Truth: 8 and 33. You are what your record is.

Mullin should have some self respect and resign after the season so they can bring in a coach who knows what he’s doing.

Quote from: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 01:20:03 PM

The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.

Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.

Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler.  We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!

You're absolutely correct. I almost feel like at this point people are rooting against St. John's on this board so their over-the-top statements about Mullin/the program become correct.

No one is rooting against Mullin. He’s 0-6 in his 3rd year. He’s getting the respect he deserves. This is a former athlete with a tremendous ego - an ego big enough to think he can do a job without learning how to do it first. It’s time for him to look in the mirror.

Quote from: Spruces2 on January 12, 2018, 02:20:46 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 12, 2018, 01:20:03 PM

The program has been irrelevant for what 25 years. First two Jarvis years were outliers. Since our "Glory years" of losing every year in 1st or 2nd round of tourney, we have not had a sustainable period of success or a coach that wasn't eventually hated by our apathetic fan base. Granted some of the coaches like Norm Roberts deserved the remaining fans wraith. One coach (Fran) ran himself out of town and Jarvis deservedly wore out his welcome.

Which brings us to Lavin. Bloward, shaky game coach, drama Queen, etc. However based on the program's history, I felt he did enough outside getting a slam dunk replacement to get an extension. I posted as much at the time. Now I had no faith that we would or could hire a quality replacement. I also had no faith a quality replacement would come here. I base this on the fact that since 1992 we haven't had a quality coach with any kind of staying power. That is not my opinion, that is based on 26 years worth of proof.

Which brings us to Chris Mullin. We are not Duke. We are not Kansas. We are not Syracuse. We are not Nova. Heck recently we are not Creighton or Butler.  We do have some history that some on here cling to like a life preserver that we are something we are not and probably never were. You can't have it both ways. Louie, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy with all due respect to the guys that precede my time as a fan are royalty for us. No one could have foreseen this Lovett thing. Or maybe we should have considering his and our past. But if Lovett thing never happened, we were right on track. Based on who we were ,what we have been and what we will replace him with, Chris Mullin deserves more than two and a half years before people start talking crazy. I am not saying he should not be criticized or eventually replaced. I am just saying that it is too soon for this nonsense!!!!

More or less agree with this. However, I had no issue moving on from Lavin - thought he was lazy and his heart wasn't in it - with the understanding that there was no slam dunk hire/silver bullet. This is clearly not an easy place to succeed otherwise someone would have figured it out over the last 25 yrs.

 

As someone who was critical of this hiring at the time it occurred I can still get behind the fact that Lavin did not have the heart in the job he did early.  After the 2011 season he had cancer in 11 and 12.  His dad died in the middle of the next season.  And while I can't find any supporting information anywhere I distinctly remember hearing somewhere that he and his wife were having major issues around the time of the last season.  So yeah, he seemed distracted and his recruiting appeared to suffer quite a bit the last couple years.

That said if they were going to let him go I was very much in favor of hiring a coach, not a symbol.

I think the artist  formerly known as would have been a pretty cool hire.

All I have to say about the talk of Mullin being fired.... What year did Jay Wright turn the corner with Nova?

Once you answer this. You'll see that we should give the guy another year at the very least. Nobody expected us to lose Lovett for the entire season. He's probably our most important piece to the puzzle because as good as Shamorie is, he's not really a point guard.

All I have to say about the talk of Mullin being fired.... What year did Jay Wright turn the corner with Nova?

Once you answer this. You'll see that we should give the guy another year at the very least. Nobody expected us to lose Lovett for the entire season. He's probably our most important piece to the puzzle because as good as Shamorie is, he's not really a point guard.

Jay Wright started to catch some flak from fans during his 3rd season at Villanova, although he had taken 'em to the NIT during his first 3 years at 'Nova.  It was imperative for him to make it to the dance during his 4th season, and he delivered (with a Sweet 16 appearance).  We're not even going to the NIT, this season, which I think should've been done.

We'll probably lose Wednesday to Xavier, and if we lose to Georgetown again (gulp) on Saturday, then I'm gonna start to wonder where we'll get a Big East win.  Now, you'd be staring a potential 0-fer in the Big East for this season.  So, that'll make Mullin's 4th season an imperative year to make the NCAA's.  Nothing short of it, IMO.