Pet recruiting Peeve....

Why is it apparently impossible for recruiting reports to contain the prospects free throw percentage?

I realize it's been a lifetime since I was in high school.  But in my day every HS team had a team statistician - so the numbers SHOULD be as easy to get as a phone call (or email).

Projecting how a high school performance will translate to college is a bit of a crapshoot - but the MOST consistent performance from HS to College is free throw shooting.

I get so tired of hearing what a great prospect a kid is, and what an immediate impact he'll be,  only to find he's a 50% shooter from the line who you don't dare have on the court at crunch time.

Plus, of course, as we're always looking for "lights out shoothers" (that phrase is somewhere in just about every recruiting thread on the board!), it's a pretty good bet that if a kid is a 90% FT shooter, he's also a solid perimeter shooter - so the stat has advantages above the obvious.

Okay, off my soapbox.  Just bugs me that "recruiting gurus" seem to almost intentionally deny that one tidbit of info....

Great post.

Agree crgreen.

You're right on cr.  Great observation.

Why is it apparently impossible for recruiting reports to contain the prospects free throw percentage?

I realize it's been a lifetime since I was in high school.  But in my day every HS team had a team statistician - so the numbers SHOULD be as easy to get as a phone call (or email).

Projecting how a high school performance will translate to college is a bit of a crapshoot - but the MOST consistent performance from HS to College is free throw shooting.

I get so tired of hearing what a great prospect a kid is, and what an immediate impact he'll be,  only to find he's a 50% shooter from the line who you don't dare have on the court at crunch time.

Plus, of course, as we're always looking for "lights out shoothers" (that phrase is somewhere in just about every recruiting thread on the board!), it's a pretty good bet that if a kid is a 90% FT shooter, he's also a solid perimeter shooter - so the stat has advantages above the obvious.

Okay, off my soapbox.  Just bugs me that "recruiting gurus" seem to almost intentionally deny that one tidbit of info....

Can you name a situation where FT shooting would be relevant to a kid's ranking or recruitment? Because I can't. If you have a kid who shoots 100 percent from the FT line - a 4 year starter in HS who never missed a FT over the course of his career - no one's going to care if he doesn't do other things well or is not some sort of a physical specimen - it's not like you can have Herb Washington come in as your designated FT shooter. Conversely if a kid does everything well but shoot FTs, he's still going to get recruited - the fact that Wilt Chamberlain was a ludicrous FT shooter didn't stop people from coverting him. The fact is that most players are by definition average FT shooters - most results cluster around the mean, yes? So the vast majority of recruits shoot between 60 and 80 percent. While it is true that a good FT is more likely to be a good FT shooter, its just as likely - even more likely - that a good outside shooter is likely to be a good FT shooter, so that percentage can be extrapolated. That said, it's surprising that those statistics aren't available when there is so much data that is.

Quote from: crgreen on January 14, 2012, 03:49:55 PM

Why is it apparently impossible for recruiting reports to contain the prospects free throw percentage?

I realize it's been a lifetime since I was in high school.  But in my day every HS team had a team statistician - so the numbers SHOULD be as easy to get as a phone call (or email).

Projecting how a high school performance will translate to college is a bit of a crapshoot - but the MOST consistent performance from HS to College is free throw shooting.

I get so tired of hearing what a great prospect a kid is, and what an immediate impact he'll be,  only to find he's a 50% shooter from the line who you don't dare have on the court at crunch time.

Plus, of course, as we're always looking for "lights out shoothers" (that phrase is somewhere in just about every recruiting thread on the board!), it's a pretty good bet that if a kid is a 90% FT shooter, he's also a solid perimeter shooter - so the stat has advantages above the obvious.

Okay, off my soapbox.  Just bugs me that "recruiting gurus" seem to almost intentionally deny that one tidbit of info....

Can you name a situation where FT shooting would be relevant to a kid's ranking or recruitment? Because I can't. If you have a kid who shoots 100 percent from the FT line - a 4 year starter in HS who never missed a FT over the course of his career - no one's going to care if he doesn't do other things well or is not some sort of a physical specimen - it's not like you can have Herb Washington come in as your designated FT shooter. Conversely if a kid does everything well but shoot FTs, he's still going to get recruited - the fact that Wilt Chamberlain was a ludicrous FT shooter didn't stop people from coverting him. The fact is that most players are by definition average FT shooters - most results cluster around the mean, yes? So the vast majority of recruits shoot between 60 and 80 percent. While it is true that a good FT is more likely to be a good FT shooter, its just as likely - even more likely - that a good outside shooter is likely to be a good FT shooter, so that percentage can be extrapolated. That said, it's surprising that those statistics aren't available when there is so much data that is.

It's just a recruiting tool.   If we've got a shot at two similar skilled/similar ranked players, I'd like to know if one shoots 45% from the line while the other hit's 90%.   Makes a big difference in which one I hope we get....

Quote from: Foad on January 15, 2012, 08:03:24 AM

Quote from: crgreen on January 14, 2012, 03:49:55 PM

Why is it apparently impossible for recruiting reports to contain the prospects free throw percentage?

I realize it's been a lifetime since I was in high school.  But in my day every HS team had a team statistician - so the numbers SHOULD be as easy to get as a phone call (or email).

Projecting how a high school performance will translate to college is a bit of a crapshoot - but the MOST consistent performance from HS to College is free throw shooting.

I get so tired of hearing what a great prospect a kid is, and what an immediate impact he'll be,  only to find he's a 50% shooter from the line who you don't dare have on the court at crunch time.

Plus, of course, as we're always looking for "lights out shoothers" (that phrase is somewhere in just about every recruiting thread on the board!), it's a pretty good bet that if a kid is a 90% FT shooter, he's also a solid perimeter shooter - so the stat has advantages above the obvious.

Okay, off my soapbox.  Just bugs me that "recruiting gurus" seem to almost intentionally deny that one tidbit of info....

Can you name a situation where FT shooting would be relevant to a kid's ranking or recruitment? Because I can't. If you have a kid who shoots 100 percent from the FT line - a 4 year starter in HS who never missed a FT over the course of his career - no one's going to care if he doesn't do other things well or is not some sort of a physical specimen - it's not like you can have Herb Washington come in as your designated FT shooter. Conversely if a kid does everything well but shoot FTs, he's still going to get recruited - the fact that Wilt Chamberlain was a ludicrous FT shooter didn't stop people from coverting him. The fact is that most players are by definition average FT shooters - most results cluster around the mean, yes? So the vast majority of recruits shoot between 60 and 80 percent. While it is true that a good FT is more likely to be a good FT shooter, its just as likely - even more likely - that a good outside shooter is likely to be a good FT shooter, so that percentage can be extrapolated. That said, it's surprising that those statistics aren't available when there is so much data that is.

It's just a recruiting tool.   If we've got a shot at two similar skilled/similar ranked players, I'd like to know if one shoots 45% from the line while the other hit's 90%.   Makes a big difference in which one I hope we get....

Me too

Quote from: Foad on January 15, 2012, 08:03:24 AM

Quote from: crgreen on January 14, 2012, 03:49:55 PM

Why is it apparently impossible for recruiting reports to contain the prospects free throw percentage?

I realize it's been a lifetime since I was in high school.  But in my day every HS team had a team statistician - so the numbers SHOULD be as easy to get as a phone call (or email).

Projecting how a high school performance will translate to college is a bit of a crapshoot - but the MOST consistent performance from HS to College is free throw shooting.

I get so tired of hearing what a great prospect a kid is, and what an immediate impact he'll be,  only to find he's a 50% shooter from the line who you don't dare have on the court at crunch time.

Plus, of course, as we're always looking for "lights out shoothers" (that phrase is somewhere in just about every recruiting thread on the board!), it's a pretty good bet that if a kid is a 90% FT shooter, he's also a solid perimeter shooter - so the stat has advantages above the obvious.

Okay, off my soapbox.  Just bugs me that "recruiting gurus" seem to almost intentionally deny that one tidbit of info....

Can you name a situation where FT shooting would be relevant to a kid's ranking or recruitment? Because I can't. If you have a kid who shoots 100 percent from the FT line - a 4 year starter in HS who never missed a FT over the course of his career - no one's going to care if he doesn't do other things well or is not some sort of a physical specimen - it's not like you can have Herb Washington come in as your designated FT shooter. Conversely if a kid does everything well but shoot FTs, he's still going to get recruited - the fact that Wilt Chamberlain was a ludicrous FT shooter didn't stop people from coverting him. The fact is that most players are by definition average FT shooters - most results cluster around the mean, yes? So the vast majority of recruits shoot between 60 and 80 percent. While it is true that a good FT is more likely to be a good FT shooter, its just as likely - even more likely - that a good outside shooter is likely to be a good FT shooter, so that percentage can be extrapolated. That said, it's surprising that those statistics aren't available when there is so much data that is.

It's just a recruiting tool.   If we've got a shot at two similar skilled/similar ranked players, I'd like to know if one shoots 45% from the line while the other hit's 90%.   Makes a big difference in which one I hope we get....

You asked a question: Why is it apparently impossible for recruiting reports to contain the prospects free throw percentage? I answered it. It's apparently impossible because no one apparently cares because the situation you describe rarely or never occurs. Why ask the question if you think you already know the answer? (Note: this is irony. Here I am asking a question to which I already know the answer.)

Perhaps as a UCLA fan you've been spoiled and have run across a situation where two highly ranked recruits are equally matched but for their free throw shooting and you have to make a choice between them. As SJ fans we are not spoiled and hence we worry about whether our recruits have 10 fingers and 10 toes and whether they've actually graduated high school. Again and in general I don't recall any recruit ever whose prospects were downgraded based on his FT percentage and can't conceive of a situation outside an aesops fable where a 16 year olds free throw percentage  might make a difference, which is why the information is unavailable.

Quote from: crgreen on January 15, 2012, 09:52:34 AM

Quote from: Foad on January 15, 2012, 08:03:24 AM

Quote from: crgreen on January 14, 2012, 03:49:55 PM

Why is it apparently impossible for recruiting reports to contain the prospects free throw percentage?

I realize it's been a lifetime since I was in high school.  But in my day every HS team had a team statistician - so the numbers SHOULD be as easy to get as a phone call (or email).

Projecting how a high school performance will translate to college is a bit of a crapshoot - but the MOST consistent performance from HS to College is free throw shooting.

I get so tired of hearing what a great prospect a kid is, and what an immediate impact he'll be,  only to find he's a 50% shooter from the line who you don't dare have on the court at crunch time.

Plus, of course, as we're always looking for "lights out shoothers" (that phrase is somewhere in just about every recruiting thread on the board!), it's a pretty good bet that if a kid is a 90% FT shooter, he's also a solid perimeter shooter - so the stat has advantages above the obvious.

Okay, off my soapbox.  Just bugs me that "recruiting gurus" seem to almost intentionally deny that one tidbit of info....

Can you name a situation where FT shooting would be relevant to a kid's ranking or recruitment? Because I can't. If you have a kid who shoots 100 percent from the FT line - a 4 year starter in HS who never missed a FT over the course of his career - no one's going to care if he doesn't do other things well or is not some sort of a physical specimen - it's not like you can have Herb Washington come in as your designated FT shooter. Conversely if a kid does everything well but shoot FTs, he's still going to get recruited - the fact that Wilt Chamberlain was a ludicrous FT shooter didn't stop people from coverting him. The fact is that most players are by definition average FT shooters - most results cluster around the mean, yes? So the vast majority of recruits shoot between 60 and 80 percent. While it is true that a good FT is more likely to be a good FT shooter, its just as likely - even more likely - that a good outside shooter is likely to be a good FT shooter, so that percentage can be extrapolated. That said, it's surprising that those statistics aren't available when there is so much data that is.

It's just a recruiting tool.   If we've got a shot at two similar skilled/similar ranked players, I'd like to know if one shoots 45% from the line while the other hit's 90%.   Makes a big difference in which one I hope we get....

Me too

Me 3!
But I think it has more to do with fans preferring to hear about a player's physical attributes rather than can he handle the ball, can he pass and God forbid shoot a free throw! It is like watching a beauty contest. They show you a bunch of stats like height and weight but do not include her IQ.
We all seem to prefer the 5'11 blonde with big T's but every once and while that short Asian wins with the high IQ and Stanford degree. Every once and a while you will get a lights out free throw shooter. Usually he is the walk-on at the end of the bench majoring in Physics.