Reality

I'm an alum and a H S basketball coach in the metro area for over 25 yrs. I refrain from posting because I refuse to critic other coaches and players. However I feel compelled to defend coach Lavin  and his staff. The present 8- 4 team is no t the same group that coach envisioned last Feb when he was out recruiting. The starting team of Harkless, Harrison, Branch, Sanchez,(people I respect say he's the real deal) and Sampson is a quality Big East team. Unfortunately Harkless prematurely left for the NBA and the NCAA has put Sanchez on hold. Without these two individuals the present squad lacks the offensive fire power to compete every night in the Big East. Kids who would be quality role players are now playing major minutes. To compound the problem all these kids are of equal ability and coach has the problem of keeping these players happy. I believe the other night coach played 10 kids. Starting in Jan the rotation will be shorten and a few individual will become unhappy and transfer. That 's the reality of Division 1 basketball and that 's fine because it gives coach more options moving forward with recruiting. I believe the play this year will continue to be inconsistent which translates into a modest results. What we should hope for this year is offensive improvement from Opekpa, a quality recruiting year, and no individual thinking his ready for the NBA. I believe coach has done a fantastic job rebuilding this program.  unfortunately there have been a few bumps in the road.
 Enjoy the year. Lets hope Sanchez becomes eligible and Branch is the point guard we deserve. Despite a few mistakes I really liked the way he moved and his court presence. Merry  Christmas and remember the Sealy, Werdan team as Freshman were 500 before they made a run and won the NIT

Fine to defend staff and i am not being critical of the staff when I take issue with 2 of your points. First if Moe stayed we cannot be sure how that may have affected the class that we brought in and secondly bringing up the Sealy-Werdann teams-different era, those kids stayed 4 years while today the better players leave early.

Phenomenal post

I apologize to posters for ranting so much these past few days. As a St. John's fan, I've experienced way too many lows and few highs (outside of 2010). I want Coach and this team to succeed so much that I lose focus about the facts. The fact is this team is composed of 10 underclassmen. The fact is we lost our best player to the NBA Draft in June and let's be honest, we're not Kentucky here (meaning we aren't bringing in the #1 or #2 player in the country to backfill). The fact is we lost our best X's and O's coach to the Charlotte Bobcats.

Unfortunately, it's going to take time to get this program back to a consistent level of success. As the poster said, the lineup will be shortened come time for conference play. Players riding the pine will get angry and transfer and so goes the cycle in college sports. Hopefully, we see improvement in our squad as the season progresses and we are able to get commitments from the recruits we're targeting.

Is there an excuse for yesterday? No. Simply put, it was an embarrassing performance from the players and coach. My hope is they learn from it and fix the gaping holes we all see out there.

Just one thing to remember about our fans,  about this time last year some of them referred to our former assistant head coach as Mike Dunce-lap.

Everybody enjoy Their Christmas!

Perfect, Jumpinjohnny. How quickly we forget. Dunlop was under appreciated then, and now he is indispensable. It should be a rule that as a reality check, each poster should have to read their own prior posts over the past year before posting anything critical. Consistency is a virtue.

Isham, as St.John's fans we are used to this embarrassment. Under Norm, it was far worse. New coaches present new positives, and at times, new concerns to worry about.

Sanchez not being eligible is unacceptable. It's a fluke if he represents an isolated incident, but he doesn't because we lost 3 players last year, that would have produced at the very least, an NIT.

Lavin, at 8-4 is still very much in the hunt for an NCAA bid, but he has a lot of work to do. The players he has, be it bec of injury, NBA defections or eligibility are his to work with because this is his system. He chose them. We shouldn't forgive poor results and do it w an excuse.

Other coaches have their issues too. As much as I like Lavin, he must take the good w the bad.

Reality!!

In Las Vegas visiting my family for Christmas. Why my family moved to Vegs is another story...

I attended the UNLV game last night. What great fan support they got for a Chirstmas Weekend game against Canisius.

Fans cheered loud and actually looked like they were having fun at the game.

When Canisius made a run the UNLV fans really got loud to get the Rebels going.

 The issue with St. John's fan is they are New York cool. Take this past weekend how many fans actually had a Ugly sweater on?

Everyone in New York is a expert & critic. Our fan support sucks.

I'm an alum and a H S basketball coach in the metro area for over 25 yrs. I refrain from posting because I refuse to critic other coaches and players. However I feel compelled to defend coach Lavin  and his staff. The present 8- 4 team is no t the same group that coach envisioned last Feb when he was out recruiting. The starting team of Harkless, Harrison, Branch, Sanchez,(people I respect say he's the real deal) and Sampson is a quality Big East team. Unfortunately Harkless prematurely left for the NBA and the NCAA has put Sanchez on hold. Without these two individuals the present squad lacks the offensive fire power to compete every night in the Big East. Kids who would be quality role players are now playing major minutes. To compound the problem all these kids are of equal ability and coach has the problem of keeping these players happy. I believe the other night coach played 10 kids. Starting in Jan the rotation will be shorten and a few individual will become unhappy and transfer. That 's the reality of Division 1 basketball and that 's fine because it gives coach more options moving forward with recruiting. I believe the play this year will continue to be inconsistent which translates into a modest results. What we should
hope for this year is offensive improvement from Opekpa, a quality recruiting year, and no individual thinking his ready for the NBA. I believe coach has done a fantastic job rebuilding this program.  unfortunately there have been a few bumps in the road.
 Enjoy the year. Lets hope Sanchez becomes eligible and Branch is the point guard we deserve. Despite a few mistakes I really liked the way he moved and his court presence. Merry  Christmas and remember the Sealy, Werdan team as Freshman were 500 before they made a run and won the NIT

True, there have been a few bumps in the road.  However, in terms of Harkless, his absence in no way should be affecting the present team as coach and staff never figured him in the make up of this years team.  As someone mentioned earlier, the theme of players not being eligible is getting too familiar here.  Perhaps coach Lavin is recruiting the wrong type of players. In terms of the " forever young" team mantra that permeates this site, that would be justified if your new bees would be players who never competed at this level which we know to be false.  One of our youngest members, Mr. Sampson is doing quite well as " youth" does not  seem to be affecting his game.  What seems to be most disturbing to many of us where your argument does not seem to hold water is the fact that we are playing poorly, getting out rebounded, and losing sizable leads against teams that are far inferior to us in individual talent, size and athleticism.  How many top 100 kids were on UNCA's team?  And if rebounding and interior defense is an issue then what's the deal with Gods Gift.  Would it not serve the team better to have him active?  I don't look at won loss records so much as I consider the overall body of work.  A comeback win against a far inferior opponent is more  of a red flag then a loss to a team of equal or superior ability.  Let's hope Lavin pulls a rabbit out of his gym bag and gas this team ready for Big East play in the next two weeks.

Linda,

You are crediting Jakarr with rising above his inexperience while you place rebounding as one of the central troubling issues of this team.  He has put together stats in his first 12 games that only a few other have done playing here over the past 30 years.  He is a rarity for fans of this Program.  Johnny fans have not had a coach recruit this well in a real long time. I'm sure you realize this and are pleased about it.

However, even Sampson does play like freshmen in many ways.  In three of the four losses he has had three or fewer rebounds.  He too has a lot to learn before he plays like the 22 year old guy who played for the other side the other night.

The real disaster happened last year getting stuck playing six players humungous minutes and eventually losing Harkless in the bargain.  This year's class seems talented but DLo and Jakarr are again candidates to go leaving us with squat again.  We're getting higher rated players but I don't think there's much question that 2010's team would wipe the floor with this year's.  Every mid major we play seems to have more interior talent than we do.  I think we need to find kids who can clog the middle even if they're not in the top 100.  I'd love to have that Fordham kid for example.  Where were we when he was out there?  We have no muscle and are going to be killed in the BE.  Recruiting means team building and that ain't happening right now.

Just one thing to remember about our fans,  about this time last year some of them referred to our former assistant head coach as Mike Dunce-lap.

Everybody enjoy Their Christmas!

I viewed Lavin and Dunlap as our version of Joe Torre and Don Zimmer. They were the perfect combination, and when either one got taken away from the other, the whole team suffered.  When Zim filled in for Torre in 1999, there were backstage battles with George, the press, some of the players, etc.  The calming influence was gone.  Torre was never the same in-game manager after Zim left.

So it is with our program, too.  Dunlap was a ultra-critical guy, who yelled, screamed, and with young kids, that could have destroyed there confidence last year (I thought he got better at that as the year went on).  Not have Lavin there to tell them the sun was going to rise the next morning had an influence.  Conversly, Lavin's team looks uninspired offensivley, with only a small sembelence of a game plan, and an inability to make adjustments, at least to this point.

The real disaster happened last year getting stuck playing six players humungous minutes and eventually losing Harkless in the bargain.  This year's class seems talented but DLo and Jakarr are again candidates to go leaving us with squat again.  We're getting higher rated players but I don't think there's much question that 2010's team would wipe the floor with this year's.  Every mid major we play seems to have more interior talent than we do.  I think we need to find kids who can clog the middle even if they're not in the top 100.  I'd love to have that Fordham kid for example.  Where were we when he was out there?  We have no muscle and are going to be killed in the BE.  Recruiting means team building and that ain't happening right now.

Bobre,

Valid points about the high quality recruits being a threat to leave for the pros, but there is no way that any of us felt that 2010's team was going anywhere at this same point in the season.  They were 7-3 with close wins over mid majors.  They did win two tournaments, but neither tournament was high profile.  That team did not put it togther till the second half of the Northwestern game. 
I'm not comparing this team to the 2010 team in any other way.  I'm just pointing out that it is premature to make conclusions based on these early season games when you play experienced teams that are playing their hearts out in the biggest game of their season.  During that second half the biggest difference between the two teams on the court was the desire of the team that won the game.  They took this game away from St John's.
I hope these kids grow up fast and learn how hard they need to play.

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on December 22, 2012, 09:30:17 PM

Just one thing to remember about our fans,  about this time last year some of them referred to our former assistant head coach as Mike Dunce-lap.

Everybody enjoy Their Christmas!

I viewed Lavin and Dunlap as our version of Joe Torre and Don Zimmer. They were the perfect combination, and when either one got taken away from the other, the whole team suffered.  When Zim filled in for Torre in 1999, there were backstage battles with George, the press, some of the players, etc.  The calming influence was gone.  Torre was never the same in-game manager after Zim left.

So it is with our program, too.  Dunlap was a ultra-critical guy, who yelled, screamed, and with young kids, that could have destroyed there confidence last year (I thought he got better at that as the year went on).  Not have Lavin there to tell them the sun was going to rise the next morning had an influence.  Conversly, Lavin's team looks uninspired offensivley, with only a small sembelence of a game plan, and an inability to make adjustments, at least to this point.

Dunlap got that 6 man team w 5 FR to play their butts off and give 100% every game . I thaught he did a remarkable job especially against BE competition.

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on December 22, 2012, 09:30:17 PM

Just one thing to remember about our fans,  about this time last year some of them referred to our former assistant head coach as Mike Dunce-lap.

Everybody enjoy Their Christmas!

I viewed Lavin and Dunlap as our version of Joe Torre and Don Zimmer. They were the perfect combination, and when either one got taken away from the other, the whole team suffered.  When Zim filled in for Torre in 1999, there were backstage battles with George, the press, some of the players, etc.  The calming influence was gone.  Torre was never the same in-game manager after Zim left.

So it is with our program, too.  Dunlap was a ultra-critical guy, who yelled, screamed, and with young kids, that could have destroyed there confidence last year (I thought he got better at that as the year went on).  Not have Lavin there to tell them the sun was going to rise the next morning had an influence.  Conversly, Lavin's team looks uninspired offensivley, with only a small sembelence of a game plan, and an inability to make adjustments, at least to this point.

So Dunlap was a mean old man that just learned to "play nice" in what his 30th coaching season.  That guy is a slow learner

Quote from: sju61982 on December 23, 2012, 01:40:07 PM

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on December 22, 2012, 09:30:17 PM

Just one thing to remember about our fans,  about this time last year some of them referred to our former assistant head coach as Mike Dunce-lap.

Everybody enjoy Their Christmas!

I viewed Lavin and Dunlap as our version of Joe Torre and Don Zimmer. They were the perfect combination, and when either one got taken away from the other, the whole team suffered.  When Zim filled in for Torre in 1999, there were backstage battles with George, the press, some of the players, etc.  The calming influence was gone.  Torre was never the same in-game manager after Zim left.

So it is with our program, too.  Dunlap was a ultra-critical guy, who yelled, screamed, and with young kids, that could have destroyed there confidence last year (I thought he got better at that as the year went on).  Not have Lavin there to tell them the sun was going to rise the next morning had an influence.  Conversly, Lavin's team looks uninspired offensivley, with only a small sembelence of a game plan, and an inability to make adjustments, at least to this point.

Dunlap got that 6 man team w 5 FR to play their butts off and give 100% every game . I thaught he did a remarkable job especially against BE competition.

And now we get to see what coach Steve does vs. BE competition with a team that was picked from 10th to dead last in the league. We have been playing with no point guard and two freshmen on the front line. Only reasonable expectation is that team gets better as season goes on. 

Quote from: ras on December 23, 2012, 05:36:44 PM

Quote from: sju61982 on December 23, 2012, 01:40:07 PM

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on December 22, 2012, 09:30:17 PM

Just one thing to remember about our fans,  about this time last year some of them referred to our former assistant head coach as Mike Dunce-lap.

Everybody enjoy Their Christmas!

I viewed Lavin and Dunlap as our version of Joe Torre and Don Zimmer. They were the perfect combination, and when either one got taken away from the other, the whole team suffered.  When Zim filled in for Torre in 1999, there were backstage battles with George, the press, some of the players, etc.  The calming influence was gone.  Torre was never the same in-game manager after Zim left.

So it is with our program, too.  Dunlap was a ultra-critical guy, who yelled, screamed, and with young kids, that could have destroyed there confidence last year (I thought he got better at that as the year went on).  Not have Lavin there to tell them the sun was going to rise the next morning had an influence.  Conversly, Lavin's team looks uninspired offensivley, with only a small sembelence of a game plan, and an inability to make adjustments, at least to this point.

Dunlap got that 6 man team w 5 FR to play their butts off and give 100% every game . I thaught he did a remarkable job especially against BE competition.

And now we get to see what coach Steve does vs. BE competition with a team that was picked from 10th to dead last in the league. We have been playing with no point guard and two freshmen on the front line. Only reasonable expectation is that team gets better as season goes on.

I'm not seeing the improvement we're expecting.  Despite the blocks our bigs are lightweights with no physical presence at all.  We all know what that means in the BE.  Our guards and wings seem to have gotten less quick and constantly lose their men.  Even Pointer is letting guys turn the corner on him.  We draw chippie fouls instead of good physical ones.  I can't see us beating anyone in the BE without an attitude adjustment right away. In the first half of the Asheville game they looked terrific and then forgot how to play.  Used to see that with Norm too.
I'd like to see them switch to man exclusively and find out who wants to play.  To many guys posing and leaving their feet instead of moving them.