Norm's offense

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thetruth8734

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Re: Norm's offense
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2012, 09:38:58 PM »
when was the last time st johns had 2 freshman as dynamic who could take over a game like harmless and Harrison can? Attest probably?

Attest never really "took over a game" as he wasn't a dominant offensive force and certainly not in his freshmen year.  His stregnth was in his very high all-around level of play.  i.e. he could defend, rebound, pass and was capable of scoring on the inside and outside.  What harmless and Harrison at times do is more like what Marcus and Showtime used to do.

I think Harkless and Harrison are a lot better than Showtime and Hatten. I've seen Harkless as high as #6 in the 2013 NBA mock drafts. Harrison is one of those special fiery players who could end up carrying the team on offense by the time he's like a junior. And the best part about this pairing is that while Harrison needs to control the ball and get up his shots, Harkless thrives without needing to dominate the ball (kinda the opposite of Melo and Amare on the Knicks), and that's why I think they'll be very good going forward, as Harmless said before.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges with Harkless. If anything he should be compared to players who play his position. He reminds me of Rudy Gay.
Showtime was excellent when he was healthy, but sadly, he couldn't stay healthy, and he became a shadow of himself.

Hatten was a tremendous player. But in fairness, he came to us as a junior. Still, next to The Truth, he was the best juco we've had here.

I don't think Harkless has the offensive upside of Gay, and will be more of an all around player.


I think Harkless is ahead of Gay in terms of offense ability at this age. Gay was just a freak athlete whos offense came from that at first and was latter developed.

Gay had pretty similar numbers to Harkless in his freshman year considering Harkless averages around 8 mpg than Gay did.

desco80

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Re: Norm's offense
« Reply #121 on: January 23, 2012, 10:21:21 PM »
when was the last time st johns had 2 freshman as dynamic who could take over a game like harmless and Harrison can? Attest probably?

Attest never really "took over a game" as he wasn't a dominant offensive force and certainly not in his freshmen year.  His stregnth was in his very high all-around level of play.  i.e. he could defend, rebound, pass and was capable of scoring on the inside and outside.  What harmless and Harrison at times do is more like what Marcus and Showtime used to do.

I think Harkless and Harrison are a lot better than Showtime and Hatten. I've seen Harkless as high as #6 in the 2013 NBA mock drafts. Harrison is one of those special fiery players who could end up carrying the team on offense by the time he's like a junior. And the best part about this pairing is that while Harrison needs to control the ball and get up his shots, Harkless thrives without needing to dominate the ball (kinda the opposite of Melo and Amare on the Knicks), and that's why I think they'll be very good going forward, as Harmless said before.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges with Harkless. If anything he should be compared to players who play his position. He reminds me of Rudy Gay.
Showtime was excellent when he was healthy, but sadly, he couldn't stay healthy, and he became a shadow of himself.

Hatten was a tremendous player. But in fairness, he came to us as a junior. Still, next to The Truth, he was the best juco we've had here.

I don't think Harkless has the offensive upside of Gay, and will be more of an all around player.


I think Harkless is ahead of Gay in terms of offense ability at this age. Gay was just a freak athlete whos offense came from that at first and was latter developed.

Gay had pretty similar numbers to Harkless in his freshman year considering Harkless averages around 8 mpg than Gay did.

Yea, I think it's a fair comparison.  As is Jeff Green.   Moe's definitely getting more playing time so the number comparisons aren't completely fair.  Plus Gay had the benefit of playing with a quality point guard in Marcus Williams. 

Gay's game really took off after getting drafted.  I didn't expect him to become this good of a pro.  He's surprised me a lot.  I hope Moe follows a similar path.

boo3

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Re: Norm's offense
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2012, 10:22:41 PM »
when was the last time st johns had 2 freshman as dynamic who could take over a game like harmless and Harrison can? Attest probably?

Attest never really "took over a game" as he wasn't a dominant offensive force and certainly not in his freshmen year.  His stregnth was in his very high all-around level of play.  i.e. he could defend, rebound, pass and was capable of scoring on the inside and outside.  What harmless and Harrison at times do is more like what Marcus and Showtime used to do.

I think Harkless and Harrison are a lot better than Showtime and Hatten. I've seen Harkless as high as #6 in the 2013 NBA mock drafts. Harrison is one of those special fiery players who could end up carrying the team on offense by the time he's like a junior. And the best part about this pairing is that while Harrison needs to control the ball and get up his shots, Harkless thrives without needing to dominate the ball (kinda the opposite of Melo and Amare on the Knicks), and that's why I think they'll be very good going forward, as Harmless said before.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges with Harkless. If anything he should be compared to players who play his position. He reminds me of Rudy Gay.
Showtime was excellent when he was healthy, but sadly, he couldn't stay healthy, and he became a shadow of himself.

Hatten was a tremendous player. But in fairness, he came to us as a junior. Still, next to The Truth, he was the best juco we've had here.

I don't think Harkless has the offensive upside of Gay, and will be more of an all around player.


I think Harkless is ahead of Gay in terms of offense ability at this age. Gay was just a freak athlete whos offense came from that at first and was latter developed.

Gay had pretty similar numbers to Harkless in his freshman year considering Harkless averages around 8 mpg than Gay did.

Yea, I think it's a fair comparison.  As is Jeff Green.   Moe's definitely getting more playing time so the number comparisons aren't completely fair.  Plus Gay had the benefit of playing with a quality point guard in Marcus Williams. 

Gay's game really took off after getting drafted.  I didn't expect him to become this good of a pro.  He's surprised me a lot.  I hope Moe follows a similar path.

 Except for the part where gay left after a year,  or was it 2?

desco80

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Re: Norm's offense
« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2012, 10:25:02 PM »
when was the last time st johns had 2 freshman as dynamic who could take over a game like harmless and Harrison can? Attest probably?

Attest never really "took over a game" as he wasn't a dominant offensive force and certainly not in his freshmen year.  His stregnth was in his very high all-around level of play.  i.e. he could defend, rebound, pass and was capable of scoring on the inside and outside.  What harmless and Harrison at times do is more like what Marcus and Showtime used to do.

I think Harkless and Harrison are a lot better than Showtime and Hatten. I've seen Harkless as high as #6 in the 2013 NBA mock drafts. Harrison is one of those special fiery players who could end up carrying the team on offense by the time he's like a junior. And the best part about this pairing is that while Harrison needs to control the ball and get up his shots, Harkless thrives without needing to dominate the ball (kinda the opposite of Melo and Amare on the Knicks), and that's why I think they'll be very good going forward, as Harmless said before.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges with Harkless. If anything he should be compared to players who play his position. He reminds me of Rudy Gay.
Showtime was excellent when he was healthy, but sadly, he couldn't stay healthy, and he became a shadow of himself.

Hatten was a tremendous player. But in fairness, he came to us as a junior. Still, next to The Truth, he was the best juco we've had here.

I don't think Harkless has the offensive upside of Gay, and will be more of an all around player.


I think Harkless is ahead of Gay in terms of offense ability at this age. Gay was just a freak athlete whos offense came from that at first and was latter developed.

Gay had pretty similar numbers to Harkless in his freshman year considering Harkless averages around 8 mpg than Gay did.

Yea, I think it's a fair comparison.  As is Jeff Green.   Moe's definitely getting more playing time so the number comparisons aren't completely fair.  Plus Gay had the benefit of playing with a quality point guard in Marcus Williams. 

Gay's game really took off after getting drafted.  I didn't expect him to become this good of a pro.  He's surprised me a lot.  I hope Moe follows a similar path.

 Except for the part where gay left after a year,  or was it 2?

He stayed two.  I'd love to see Moe here longer than that.  But if he's an All American and a Big East player of the year candidate then I can't really blame him.  Especially since it'll probably mean we did pretty well as a team next season.