First round upsets?

Another excuse for coach K. He should never lose a game with all that talent! He gets off the hook all the time while Calapari is under a lot more pressure to win in my book. I also think Coach K doesn't really like the chemistry on this team and will be happy to see the kick baller move on to change the dynamic of the team.

Calipari has one title and has left two programs in shambles.  K has 5 titles and never left a program in shambles. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

Only 2 first round picks on that team (and 1 was freshman mason plumlee who averaged 4 ppg and wouldnt get drafted for a few years).  No lottery picks.  THe only first rounder is not even in the NBA (Nolan Smith).   Best player, Kyle SIngler, was a 2nd rounder and has not done well in the NBA.  But they won a title.

Also, since when is winning with less a prereq. for being the greatest?  Did John Wooden and Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson do a ton with less than elite talent?

I agree with you about Schreswhreki being one of the greats, almost as great as Jim Calhoun. But only two first round picks on one team is hardly roughing it.

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 20, 2017, 02:07:59 PM

Only 2 first round picks on that team (and 1 was freshman mason plumlee who averaged 4 ppg and wouldnt get drafted for a few years).  No lottery picks.  THe only first rounder is not even in the NBA (Nolan Smith).   Best player, Kyle SIngler, was a 2nd rounder and has not done well in the NBA.  But they won a title.

Also, since when is winning with less a prereq. for being the greatest?  Did John Wooden and Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson do a ton with less than elite talent?

I agree with you about Schreswhreki being one of the greats, almost as great as Jim Calhoun. But only two first round picks on one team is hardly roughing it.

When you think of Nolan Smith do you think of NBA first round draft pick who was the anchor to a national champion without any level of impressive coaching?

The OP critiqued coach k for "never doing more with less".  Winning a title with that group was doing exactly that.  Tough to show K doing more with less when he always has varying degrees of much much more but I think that's a great example that shows his coaching acumen.

Quote from: Foad on March 20, 2017, 04:20:00 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 20, 2017, 02:07:59 PM

Only 2 first round picks on that team (and 1 was freshman mason plumlee who averaged 4 ppg and wouldnt get drafted for a few years).  No lottery picks.  THe only first rounder is not even in the NBA (Nolan Smith).   Best player, Kyle SIngler, was a 2nd rounder and has not done well in the NBA.  But they won a title.

Also, since when is winning with less a prereq. for being the greatest?  Did John Wooden and Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson do a ton with less than elite talent?

I agree with you about Schreswhreki being one of the greats, almost as great as Jim Calhoun. But only two first round picks on one team is hardly roughing it.

When you think of Nolan Smith do you think of NBA first round draft pick who was the anchor to a national champion without any level of impressive coaching?

The OP critiqued coach k for "never doing more with less".  Winning a title with that group was doing exactly that.  Tough to show K doing more with less when he always has varying degrees of much much more but I think that's a great example that shows his coaching acumen.

Again, I was agreeing with you. Denying Kruszrenski's greatness is silly, even if he he gets every break in the book, which he does. It was the "only 2 first round picks" that got to me. There's only 30 first round picks to go around. Unless you're Kentucky two is a lot.

Dook has four projected first round picks this year. By your criteria he under performed. But three of them are underclassmen - more than some MK has been adversely affected by early grads, his system being what it is. Frank Martin talked in the post game about how important having upper classmen is, an interview a lot of St John's fans might want to listen to.

I think we all agree with you, Tha Kid, but you have to admit saying "only 2 first round picks" was as clumsy way to make your point.

Quote from: mjmaherjr on March 19, 2017, 11:19:08 PM

another team from the vaunted acc goes down

Did you hear Coach K's post game comments? He said his team wasn't deep enough. Doesn't he have at least 7 All Americans on the team? This has been my biggest argument against rat face being an all time greatest. When does he ever do more with less. He doesn't. Sure he can coach the most talented team to championships, which should count for something, but that doesn't wow me. Before anyone goes throwing our current staffs offense (or even the previous staffs offense) under the bus, just watch a Duke game. There is nothing spectacular going on, just players making plays.   

I thought he was going to cry during the 2nd half. That was thoroughly enjoyable

I think we all agree with you, Tha Kid, but you have to admit saying "only 2 first round picks" was as clumsy way to make your point.

kid tripped over the baseline with that comment

Quote from: mjmaherjr on March 19, 2017, 11:19:08 PM

another team from the vaunted acc goes down

Did you hear Coach K's post game comments? He said his team wasn't deep enough. Doesn't he have at least 7 All Americans on the team? This has been my biggest argument against rat face being an all time greatest. When does he ever do more with less. He doesn't. Sure he can coach the most talented team to championships, which should count for something, but that doesn't wow me. Before anyone goes throwing our current staffs offense (or even the previous staffs offense) under the bus, just watch a Duke game. There is nothing spectacular going on, just players making plays.   

Yes, a little disingenuous to say the least. Gimme a break

I think we all agree with you, Tha Kid, but you have to admit saying "only 2 first round picks" was as clumsy way to make your point.

To you and Foad, I get it, but it was only one first rounder that year.  The second was mason plumler who wasn't drafted for two more years and barely played that year.

To MJ, it wasn't the baseline...it was Grayson.  fookin d bag.

Quote from: Marillac on March 20, 2017, 05:43:18 PM

I think we all agree with you, Tha Kid, but you have to admit saying "only 2 first round picks" was as clumsy way to make your point.

To you and Foad, I get it, but it was only one first rounder that year.  The second was mason plumler who wasn't drafted for two more years and barely played that year.

To MJ, it wasn't the baseline...it was Grayson.  fookin d bag.

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 20, 2017, 01:00:54 PM

Quote from: mjmaherjr on March 19, 2017, 11:19:08 PM

another team from the vaunted acc goes down

Did you hear Coach K's post game comments? He said his team wasn't deep enough. Doesn't he have at least 7 All Americans on the team? This has been my biggest argument against rat face being an all time greatest. When does he ever do more with less. He doesn't. Sure he can coach the most talented team to championships, which should count for something, but that doesn't wow me. Before anyone goes throwing our current staffs offense (or even the previous staffs offense) under the bus, just watch a Duke game. There is nothing spectacular going on, just players making plays.   

The 2009-2010 title team was doing more with less.  Only 2 first round picks on that team (and 1 was freshman mason plumlee who averaged 4 ppg and wouldnt get drafted for a few years).  No lottery picks.  THe only first rounder is not even in the NBA (Nolan Smith).   Best player, Kyle SIngler, was a 2nd rounder and has not done well in the NBA.  But they won a title.

Also, since when is winning with less a prereq. for being the greatest?  Did John Wooden and Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson do a ton with less than elite talent?   

Hmmmmm...What about Miles Plumee and Lance Thomas? So by my count that's 1, 2, 3....4! NBA players who beat a butler team which was in the title game with how many NBA players? We are not even speaking about the other top 100 players who were on their roster. I wouldn't say winning in 2009/10 was doing more with less unless I was speaking about Stevens. Thanks for bringing that year up, it only makes my point.

IMO Jim Calhoun is the best of the lot hands down.  He's won several, by finding unerappreciated talent, and not with All Americans.  His record is all results.  The Bill Bellicheck of college ball...