DEFENSE

I admit I loved but never understood Dunlap's ameoba (sp?) defense.  I enjoyed watching it progress during the NCAA year.
 
I am hoping this topic can follow the progress of our defense (an obvious key to the season) as the players get settled, new looks and wrinkles are  added...the players who are getting it etc.

I am hoping others can point out details ie.... in the matchup zone...automatic double teams  when the ball handler goes to the corner or turns his back to the basket. 

For starters as noted, we'll need to improve our three point D. 

I'm looking forward to seeing our trap zone press the most. Sheed, Dom, and Jamal at the top of the key in both half and full court sets will be suffocating and aggressive.

Sheed and Dom are going to cause some serious havoc for opposing backcourts.

Our length in the frontcourt will really be accentuated because of this. I expect Obekpa and Jak to get bonus rebounds and blocks this year simply because there will be much more room in/around the paint. Opposing guards are going to be preoccupied with the variety of defensive minded sets Lavs can throw at them.

Best Defensive 5:

Jamal
Sheed
Dom
Jak/Sanchez
Obek

People forget how highly regarded Branch was out of HS defensively. Last year w missing the first semester and his injury, we really could not evaluate him.

I'm agnostic on man vs zone...I think you should be able to play both and let your opponent's offensive strength determine which one you play. I'm also not one of those "we're St. John's, we've always played man" people. But that said, with our depth, length and quicks we should playing a lot more man than we have the last few seasons. We can defend the perimeter and the post without resorting to gimmick defenses, and that stupid amoeba thing we've been playing is a gimmick. And a bad one at that.

I think it would be great if this season really started to help our program define a POV on offense and defense. Duke plays man to man. SU plays zone.

What is our point of view on offense and defense? I think our kids have had trouble learning man and zone, because we really defined who we are. I grew up watching STJ man to man defense, but we don't do that anymore. I love the concept of VCU's "Havoc". I think it's brilliant. That should be what scares the sh*t out of a team that's on their way to NYC.

People forget how highly regarded Branch was out of HS defensively. Last year w missing the first semester and his injury, we really could not evaluate him.

I think they have forgotten bec he didn't play very good defense last year.

I dont get paid to coach.
With that said, I really feel there are fundamental flaws in a so called zone-defense that make it significantly more difficult to teach and use.

My critique mostly surrounds guards having to come out to the 3line or beyond to pickup their man and "get in his face".   How can you then realistically expect that player to rotate when the ball swings to the otherside?   Its going to take him forever.   
In a 2-3 that player would be lagging back a little.   Could he give up a 3? Sure.  But in a 2-3 that defender is at the foul line extended, it clogs the middle, and makes it easy for him to rotate to the top of the key when the ball rotates to the other side.   

Sorry if that comes off as nonsense.  Maybe a better basketball mind than myself can explain it, but I think you play man or you play a zone.  Trying to teach kids to do a combination of both at the same time is going to leave people open.   

I think it would be great if this season really started to help our program define a POV on offense and defense. Duke plays man to man. SU plays zone.

What is our point of view on offense and defense? I think our kids have had trouble learning man and zone, because we really defined who we are. I grew up watching STJ man to man defense, but we don't do that anymore. I love the concept of VCU's "Havoc". I think it's brilliant. That should be what scares the sh*t out of a team that's on their way to NYC.

I agree completely.  With our depth, we should be able to play high intensity (full court?) defense and run on offense every chance we get.  Not sure if that's the direction we are going, but at one point that was the thought behind acquiring a roster filled with incredible athletes.  It seems like we aren't highlighting our physical advantages if we don't take that approach

While most teams play a certain style of defense, don't almost all teams change up their defense from time to time.  Don't we need to play both if only to protect our key guys when they get into foul trouble.

While most teams play a certain style of defense, don't almost all teams change up their defense from time to time.  Don't we need to play both if only to protect our key guys when they get into foul trouble.

The zone should be the defense you play to keep your guys out of foul trouble.

Quote from: Poison on September 09, 2013, 05:50:25 PM

I think it would be great if this season really started to help our program define a POV on offense and defense. Duke plays man to man. SU plays zone.

What is our point of view on offense and defense? I think our kids have had trouble learning man and zone, because we really defined who we are. I grew up watching STJ man to man defense, but we don't do that anymore. I love the concept of VCU's "Havoc". I think it's brilliant. That should be what scares the sh*t out of a team that's on their way to NYC.

I agree completely.  With our depth, we should be able to play high intensity (full court?) defense and run on offense every chance we get.  Not sure if that's the direction we are going, but at one point that was the thought behind acquiring a roster filled with incredible athletes.  It seems like we aren't highlighting our physical advantages if we don't take that approach

That's what I'm looking for. If we have incredible athletes, and that's what we're building here, then let's see the defense really get after it. IMO we do have very good athletes, but most of them are unable to run the break, and get the ball to these athletes in transition, so it really hasn't mattered much. We ended up in an ugly half court set anyway.

What I'm looking is for is to see the STJ's program defined by how they play. Who are we?

Quote from: hnk on September 09, 2013, 07:18:17 PM

While most teams play a certain style of defense, don't almost all teams change up their defense from time to time.  Don't we need to play both if only to protect our key guys when they get into foul trouble.

The zone should be the defense you play to keep your guys out of foul trouble.

I agree. That, and we stunk at it.

I think it would be great if this season really started to help our program define a POV on offense and defense. Duke plays man to man. SU plays zone.

What is our point of view on offense and defense? I think our kids have had trouble learning man and zone, because we really defined who we are. I grew up watching STJ man to man defense, but we don't do that anymore. I love the concept of VCU's "Havoc". I think it's brilliant. That should be what scares the sh*t out of a team that's on their way to NYC.

I agree with this. Would be great to see Havoc II at the Garden. Maybe then Spike Lee will take off his VCU jersey and put a St. John's 1 on.

Love man to man and Shaka's Havoc. With Obekpa as the anchor of the press protecting the rim coupled with our depth your post is a 5***** post!

Thank you...

Just don;t think Steve has it in him to play that card regularly.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on September 09, 2013, 07:08:59 PM

Quote from: Poison on September 09, 2013, 05:50:25 PM

I think it would be great if this season really started to help our program define a POV on offense and defense. Duke plays man to man. SU plays zone.

What is our point of view on offense and defense? I think our kids have had trouble learning man and zone, because we really defined who we are. I grew up watching STJ man to man defense, but we don't do that anymore. I love the concept of VCU's "Havoc". I think it's brilliant. That should be what scares the sh*t out of a team that's on their way to NYC.

I agree completely.  With our depth, we should be able to play high intensity (full court?) defense and run on offense every chance we get.  Not sure if that's the direction we are going, but at one point that was the thought behind acquiring a roster filled with incredible athletes.  It seems like we aren't highlighting our physical advantages if we don't take that approach

That's what I'm looking for. If we have incredible athletes, and that's what we're building here, then let's see the defense really get after it. IMO we do have very good athletes, but most of them are unable to run the break, and get the ball to these athletes in transition, so it really hasn't mattered much. We ended up in an ugly half court set anyway.

What I'm looking is for is to see the STJ's program defined by how they play. Who are we?

Our transition game isn't the problem at all IMHO...the reason we end up in the ugly halfcourt sets more than we'd like is that you cant run when you're taking the ball out of the net. Better defense + defensive rebounding= more transition opportunities.

Quote from: hnk on September 09, 2013, 07:18:17 PM

While most teams play a certain style of defense, don't almost all teams change up their defense from time to time.  Don't we need to play both if only to protect our key guys when they get into foul trouble.

The zone should be the defense you play to keep your guys out of foul trouble.

True pressing teams almost always fall back into a zone (not the Duke 3/4 court pressure nonsense, but real pressure).  I don't think this team can be a fraction as good if they aren't pressing for nearly the entire game.  I am a huge proponent of switching up defenses early and often. 

Defense and rebounding will decide the team's fate.  If we aren't taking advantage of our athletic, length, and depth advantages then we are doing our opponents a favor.