Christian Jones Officially Gone

Quote from: MCNPA on April 06, 2016, 03:16:11 PM

I still don't think CJ nor Alibegovic did much to help us win games, so we aren't losing Anthony we can't replace.  I think it's more important to use the scholarships to help move us forward.

Did Yakwe, Sima, Muss, or Ellison?

All freshmen.  D1 teams at the upper level of college ball shouldn't  and can't rely on freshmen to be pulling the weight.  I thought collectively, our freshmen were a very good group.  Good enough to play the national champs to the wire once or twice, Xavier twice, Marquette etc.  Our record didn't show it because we were a very incomplete team, but we beat one Final 4 team and nearly beat the national champs.  A lot of that was on the backs of freshmen, and we got Yakwe eligible late. And sima and Williams were injured.

We must begin somewhere, and I can't help but feel we are better off pursuing top level transfers and/ our young talent with the potential to move us forward.  I wouldn't have been upset if CJ nor Ali B stayed, it would have been fine and their experience might have helped.  I still have no issue with the staff moving forward buildin-wise.  For both kids, I think it is probably better for them as well.  I don't believe they are getting jettisoned in the least.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 06, 2016, 03:18:02 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on April 06, 2016, 03:16:11 PM

I still don't think CJ nor Alibegovic did much to help us win games, so we aren't losing Anthony we can't replace.  I think it's more important to use the scholarships to help move us forward.

Did Yakwe, Sima, Muss, or Ellison?

All freshmen.  D1 teams at the upper level of college ball shouldn't  and can't rely on freshmen to be pulling the weight.

My point is right there MCN

Quote from: goredmen on April 06, 2016, 11:58:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 06, 2016, 01:37:30 AM

Quote from: goredmen on April 06, 2016, 01:06:43 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 06, 2016, 12:14:14 AM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 11:55:36 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 05, 2016, 11:07:09 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 09:52:03 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 05, 2016, 09:15:33 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 09:09:23 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 05, 2016, 09:08:10 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 07:45:07 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on April 05, 2016, 07:42:41 PM

That sucks. We need all the serviceable big guys we can get to do the dirty work down low. I hope we add Livingston or another banger with decent offensive skills.

If SJU79 is right and the KA is waiting on a commitment from the staff before committing here then whoever the staff fills CJ's scholarship will be far better than CJ. This is the best thing for the program

I just dont know how this is the best thing for the program. We have 3 open ships.

CJ best of luck my man! Underused, under-appreciated, undervalued

You don't think this staff will fill those open scholarships? I think this is a slam dunk as far as it being good for the program

I have no doubt we will fill the scholarships. I do have some doubt that they will be "far better" than CJ. Do you think CJ was our worst returning player?

I know Jones had some nice games to close out the year but if you look deeper into his numbers you'll see he just wasn't very good for the vast majority of the season. He has a nice little jump shot that he developed and can score around the rim a little too but there's not much else he does well. He doesn't pass well, is not a strong rebounder on either end and is a liability on defense at the big east level

There's extremely little upside for both the program and Jones if he was to come back. I don't think he is a Big East caliber player. There are already 3 young bigs on the roster in Yakwe, Sima and Owens and I don't want Jones eating into their minutes when he wouldn't be much of a difference maker anyway. I would rather the staff bring in a true difference maker like Livingston with one scholarship and then fill the other two with high upside possible 4 year guys like a combination of Greek Freak's bro, Simon, Clark, or other sit out transfers.

Although I got a thing for seniors, I agree it's probably best that he move on. But this Livingston guy, a true difference maker? Doesn't he play for Arkansas State? That seems like a lot of respect for a bottom feeder program.

Anybody seen him play? If so, it's impressive that you figured out how to.

If we would have played Arkansas State on a neutral court the week after the Big East Tournament we probably would have been 3 point underdogs

That's what I'd expect. We were an awful team. But that doesn't sound like such an upgrade over Christian Jones and Amar Alibegovic. Good in the Sun Belt is a far cry from good in the BE - the conference that features the National Champion and several other programs who are best friends with that National Champion.

Yeah, ACC, BE, Big 10, Big 12 teams should never take guys from smaller schools as transfers. Except that Louisville's two best players this year were transfers, one from Drexel and one fron Cleveland State. One of Iowa State's best players is a transfer from Northern Illinois. Michigan State's 2nd best scorer this year was a Cleveland State transfer. Creighton's best player and one of the best in the Big East was a transfer from Boston U. I could keep going.

The fact that you think this guy isn't good just because he played in the Sun Belt is so mind bogglingly stupid. There is no way Jones or Amar would have done even close to what he did there. There's a reason why the biggest programs in the country are trying to get guys like Holden from Delaware, Barry from Charleston and Mullins from Columbia. Because they can play anywhere in the country.

Jones and Amar have proven they can't play at big east level while this kid Livingston went for 18 and 22 against an Arkansas Little Rock team that beat Purdue (the biggest team in the country) in the NCAA Tourney

It's stupid to question a transfer from Arkansas State? Um, ok.

The number of players who come from BU or some other low level program that can keep it going in a high major conference doesn't come close to the number of players who can't. There is usually a reason why you're playing at that level. Calling out the exceptions actually makes you sound like a dreamer.

For every Maurice Watson, there's a dozen Alpha Banguras, who couldn't get away with the same shit at this level on a day-to-day basis. Did he have an occasional good game? Sure. You can't call out 3 or 4 games and bet the farm on them.

And, how do you know that Christian Jones couldn't transfer to Arkansas State, build off his end of the year improvement and put up 20 points per game? If he does that, we should be all over him because he can score the ball, and we need guys who can do that.

Yeah, nobody is saying to go after the 3rd guy off Arkansas State's bench that averaged 2.7 points a game. I know it wasn't a very high bar, but Livingston would have been the best player on our team this year

I understand that, but how do you know that Christian Jones couldn't go to a small conference that doesn't have Ochefu and Reynolds guarding you in the paint and dominate? What's the difference between Jones putting up 8.5 and 5 in the BE on a terrible team and Livingston putting up 15 and 10 on a terrible team? Seems to me that in all likelihood Livingston transfer here and puts up 8.5 and 5. What have we gained?

There is another side of the game and it's called defense. Jones always gave up more points than he scored. In a lower tiered conference Jones' lack of awareness can be masked and made up by superior athleticism. In the Big East his only role would have been a spark plug off the bench to come in and score in spurts and go to bench before other team realized he is clueless.

Quote from: Poison on April 06, 2016, 12:26:33 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 06, 2016, 11:58:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 06, 2016, 01:37:30 AM

Quote from: goredmen on April 06, 2016, 01:06:43 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 06, 2016, 12:14:14 AM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 11:55:36 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 05, 2016, 11:07:09 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 09:52:03 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 05, 2016, 09:15:33 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 09:09:23 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 05, 2016, 09:08:10 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 07:45:07 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on April 05, 2016, 07:42:41 PM

That sucks. We need all the serviceable big guys we can get to do the dirty work down low. I hope we add Livingston or another banger with decent offensive skills.

If SJU79 is right and the KA is waiting on a commitment from the staff before committing here then whoever the staff fills CJ's scholarship will be far better than CJ. This is the best thing for the program

I just dont know how this is the best thing for the program. We have 3 open ships.

CJ best of luck my man! Underused, under-appreciated, undervalued

You don't think this staff will fill those open scholarships? I think this is a slam dunk as far as it being good for the program

I have no doubt we will fill the scholarships. I do have some doubt that they will be "far better" than CJ. Do you think CJ was our worst returning player?

I know Jones had some nice games to close out the year but if you look deeper into his numbers you'll see he just wasn't very good for the vast majority of the season. He has a nice little jump shot that he developed and can score around the rim a little too but there's not much else he does well. He doesn't pass well, is not a strong rebounder on either end and is a liability on defense at the big east level

There's extremely little upside for both the program and Jones if he was to come back. I don't think he is a Big East caliber player. There are already 3 young bigs on the roster in Yakwe, Sima and Owens and I don't want Jones eating into their minutes when he wouldn't be much of a difference maker anyway. I would rather the staff bring in a true difference maker like Livingston with one scholarship and then fill the other two with high upside possible 4 year guys like a combination of Greek Freak's bro, Simon, Clark, or other sit out transfers.

Although I got a thing for seniors, I agree it's probably best that he move on. But this Livingston guy, a true difference maker? Doesn't he play for Arkansas State? That seems like a lot of respect for a bottom feeder program.

Anybody seen him play? If so, it's impressive that you figured out how to.

If we would have played Arkansas State on a neutral court the week after the Big East Tournament we probably would have been 3 point underdogs

That's what I'd expect. We were an awful team. But that doesn't sound like such an upgrade over Christian Jones and Amar Alibegovic. Good in the Sun Belt is a far cry from good in the BE - the conference that features the National Champion and several other programs who are best friends with that National Champion.

Yeah, ACC, BE, Big 10, Big 12 teams should never take guys from smaller schools as transfers. Except that Louisville's two best players this year were transfers, one from Drexel and one fron Cleveland State. One of Iowa State's best players is a transfer from Northern Illinois. Michigan State's 2nd best scorer this year was a Cleveland State transfer. Creighton's best player and one of the best in the Big East was a transfer from Boston U. I could keep going.

The fact that you think this guy isn't good just because he played in the Sun Belt is so mind bogglingly stupid. There is no way Jones or Amar would have done even close to what he did there. There's a reason why the biggest programs in the country are trying to get guys like Holden from Delaware, Barry from Charleston and Mullins from Columbia. Because they can play anywhere in the country.

Jones and Amar have proven they can't play at big east level while this kid Livingston went for 18 and 22 against an Arkansas Little Rock team that beat Purdue (the biggest team in the country) in the NCAA Tourney

It's stupid to question a transfer from Arkansas State? Um, ok.

The number of players who come from BU or some other low level program that can keep it going in a high major conference doesn't come close to the number of players who can't. There is usually a reason why you're playing at that level. Calling out the exceptions actually makes you sound like a dreamer.

For every Maurice Watson, there's a dozen Alpha Banguras, who couldn't get away with the same shit at this level on a day-to-day basis. Did he have an occasional good game? Sure. You can't call out 3 or 4 games and bet the farm on them.

And, how do you know that Christian Jones couldn't transfer to Arkansas State, build off his end of the year improvement and put up 20 points per game? If he does that, we should be all over him because he can score the ball, and we need guys who can do that.

Yeah, nobody is saying to go after the 3rd guy off Arkansas State's bench that averaged 2.7 points a game. I know it wasn't a very high bar, but Livingston would have been the best player on our team this year

I understand that, but how do you know that Christian Jones couldn't go to a small conference that doesn't have Ochefu and Reynolds guarding you in the paint and dominate? What's the difference between Jones putting up 8.5 and 5 in the BE on a terrible team and Livingston putting up 15 and 10 on a terrible team? Seems to me that in all likelihood Livingston transfer here and puts up 8.5 and 5. What have we gained?

There is another side of the game and it's called defense. Jones always gave up more points than he scored. In a lower tiered conference Jones' lack of awareness can be masked and made up by superior athleticism. In the Big East his only role would have been a spark plug off the bench to come in and score in spurts and go to bench before other team realized he is clueless.

Dave, we're in agreement here. My last point above was questioning whether a guy from a lousy Arkansas State could play in the BE and handle guys like Ochefu and Reynolds. Personally, even if he was only able to rebound, but he understood how to play defense, he's an upgrade. I just find that unlikely, even though I aware that it does happen. Guys like Watson are the exception, not the rule. And it's not like Livingston pulled a Seth Curry and transferred to a high major immediately.

Quote from: MCNPA on April 06, 2016, 09:57:35 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 06, 2016, 03:18:02 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on April 06, 2016, 03:16:11 PM

I still don't think CJ nor Alibegovic did much to help us win games, so we aren't losing Anthony we can't replace.  I think it's more important to use the scholarships to help move us forward.

Did Yakwe, Sima, Muss, or Ellison?

All freshmen.  D1 teams at the upper level of college ball shouldn't  and can't rely on freshmen to be pulling the weight.

My point is right there MCN

Yes, but in this massive rebuild, we won't be relying solely on freshmen like last year.  We will have mostly a combination of freshmen  and sophs and sure we will be young.   We will also have some upperclassmen transfers and JUCO juniors on the team. In addition as Dave pointed out, while CJ had a few good games, he wasn't a particularly good rebounder nor defender and was a turnover machine.  He had the ability to score some buckets finally in his senior season, but he couldn't defend.   I'd put Yakwe on the court any day of the week over jones, and this year we will also have Ahmed, Owens, Freudenberg and likely more, so replacing him won't be an issue I don't believe.

Lamont Middleton came out of Hartford. He was not great but he was ok. Why can't this guy from Arkansas be similar.

Quote from: Dave on April 07, 2016, 12:41:39 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 06, 2016, 12:26:33 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 06, 2016, 11:58:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 06, 2016, 01:37:30 AM

Quote from: goredmen on April 06, 2016, 01:06:43 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 06, 2016, 12:14:14 AM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 11:55:36 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 05, 2016, 11:07:09 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 09:52:03 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 05, 2016, 09:15:33 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 09:09:23 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 05, 2016, 09:08:10 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 05, 2016, 07:45:07 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on April 05, 2016, 07:42:41 PM

That sucks. We need all the serviceable big guys we can get to do the dirty work down low. I hope we add Livingston or another banger with decent offensive skills.

If SJU79 is right and the KA is waiting on a commitment from the staff before committing here then whoever the staff fills CJ's scholarship will be far better than CJ. This is the best thing for the program

I just dont know how this is the best thing for the program. We have 3 open ships.

CJ best of luck my man! Underused, under-appreciated, undervalued

You don't think this staff will fill those open scholarships? I think this is a slam dunk as far as it being good for the program

I have no doubt we will fill the scholarships. I do have some doubt that they will be "far better" than CJ. Do you think CJ was our worst returning player?

I know Jones had some nice games to close out the year but if you look deeper into his numbers you'll see he just wasn't very good for the vast majority of the season. He has a nice little jump shot that he developed and can score around the rim a little too but there's not much else he does well. He doesn't pass well, is not a strong rebounder on either end and is a liability on defense at the big east level

There's extremely little upside for both the program and Jones if he was to come back. I don't think he is a Big East caliber player. There are already 3 young bigs on the roster in Yakwe, Sima and Owens and I don't want Jones eating into their minutes when he wouldn't be much of a difference maker anyway. I would rather the staff bring in a true difference maker like Livingston with one scholarship and then fill the other two with high upside possible 4 year guys like a combination of Greek Freak's bro, Simon, Clark, or other sit out transfers.

Although I got a thing for seniors, I agree it's probably best that he move on. But this Livingston guy, a true difference maker? Doesn't he play for Arkansas State? That seems like a lot of respect for a bottom feeder program.

Anybody seen him play? If so, it's impressive that you figured out how to.

If we would have played Arkansas State on a neutral court the week after the Big East Tournament we probably would have been 3 point underdogs

That's what I'd expect. We were an awful team. But that doesn't sound like such an upgrade over Christian Jones and Amar Alibegovic. Good in the Sun Belt is a far cry from good in the BE - the conference that features the National Champion and several other programs who are best friends with that National Champion.

Yeah, ACC, BE, Big 10, Big 12 teams should never take guys from smaller schools as transfers. Except that Louisville's two best players this year were transfers, one from Drexel and one fron Cleveland State. One of Iowa State's best players is a transfer from Northern Illinois. Michigan State's 2nd best scorer this year was a Cleveland State transfer. Creighton's best player and one of the best in the Big East was a transfer from Boston U. I could keep going.

The fact that you think this guy isn't good just because he played in the Sun Belt is so mind bogglingly stupid. There is no way Jones or Amar would have done even close to what he did there. There's a reason why the biggest programs in the country are trying to get guys like Holden from Delaware, Barry from Charleston and Mullins from Columbia. Because they can play anywhere in the country.

Jones and Amar have proven they can't play at big east level while this kid Livingston went for 18 and 22 against an Arkansas Little Rock team that beat Purdue (the biggest team in the country) in the NCAA Tourney

It's stupid to question a transfer from Arkansas State? Um, ok.

The number of players who come from BU or some other low level program that can keep it going in a high major conference doesn't come close to the number of players who can't. There is usually a reason why you're playing at that level. Calling out the exceptions actually makes you sound like a dreamer.

For every Maurice Watson, there's a dozen Alpha Banguras, who couldn't get away with the same shit at this level on a day-to-day basis. Did he have an occasional good game? Sure. You can't call out 3 or 4 games and bet the farm on them.

And, how do you know that Christian Jones couldn't transfer to Arkansas State, build off his end of the year improvement and put up 20 points per game? If he does that, we should be all over him because he can score the ball, and we need guys who can do that.

Yeah, nobody is saying to go after the 3rd guy off Arkansas State's bench that averaged 2.7 points a game. I know it wasn't a very high bar, but Livingston would have been the best player on our team this year

I understand that, but how do you know that Christian Jones couldn't go to a small conference that doesn't have Ochefu and Reynolds guarding you in the paint and dominate? What's the difference between Jones putting up 8.5 and 5 in the BE on a terrible team and Livingston putting up 15 and 10 on a terrible team? Seems to me that in all likelihood Livingston transfer here and puts up 8.5 and 5. What have we gained?

There is another side of the game and it's called defense. Jones always gave up more points than he scored. In a lower tiered conference Jones' lack of awareness can be masked and made up by superior athleticism. In the Big East his only role would have been a spark plug off the bench to come in and score in spurts and go to bench before other team realized he is clueless.

Dave, we're in agreement here. My last point above was questioning whether a guy from a lousy Arkansas State could play in the BE and handle guys like Ochefu and Reynolds. Personally, even if he was only able to rebound, but he understood how to play defense, he's an upgrade. I just find that unlikely, even though I aware that it does happen. Guys like Watson are the exception, not the rule. And it's not like Livingston pulled a Seth Curry and transferred to a high major immediately.

Poison, that is up to the staff to figure out if he's an upgrade.  If he can defend the post alone he'd be an upgrade.  As of now, Livingston is just message board fodder, so we don't know the staff's level of interest clearly.