Most Frustrating player...

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2016, 12:00:56 PM »
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

Averaged 11 points a game and 2nd in assists on ST John's team that won a tourney game. That is almost number retired category around here the lat 25 years

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-johns-ny/1993.html

Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2016, 12:14:29 PM »
I only started watching in the early 00's, so for me definitely Willie Shaw and Lamont Hamilton. And of course Showtime, but I know injuries wrecked his time here.

Poison

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM »
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

Poison

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2016, 12:22:39 PM »
James Scott for me, 100%.

Anyone who played for Mahoney or Norm should be excluded from this because they were not coached at all.

Mahoney wasn't a good coach. He was horrible. But some of kids were so selfish, they just ignored good direction, and I witnessed Mahoney giving it to several players. Zendon wasn't able to be coached by Mahoney or Frascilla. At that point, who gets the blame? I put it on the player.

So if a player has multiple coaches, neither of whom reach him, he is uncoachable?  Isn't it just as possible that neither were good coaches?

Fran dropped his pants and grabbed his sack in front of the team.  Maybe some of you old geezers find that old school and reminsicent of the good old days, but yeah would not be a preferred method of a "good" coach if you ask me.

Fran was a great recruiter and OK coach at times.  That's enough to succeed in college as long as you dont do anything stupid. 

It's not like Zendon was coached by Louie or Coach K or Brad Stevens or Boeheim (for you Poison) here.  It was Mahoney and Fraschilla.

I don't know why you keep mentioning Boeheim and you direct it at me, but if it makes you feel good about yourself, enjoy. It's senseless. But enjoy, kid.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 12:23:04 PM by Poison »

wpc77

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2016, 12:26:23 PM »
Forgot about another name - Derek Brown.   Came in hyped up as a top athlete and scorer who could play the 2 and grow into a point, ended up being awful. 

Was not highly recruited, had a nice Soph year, got hurt than played out of position. Not sure how he would or should make this list

I was pretty young but Derek Brown was one of my favorite players and I remember not thinking he got enough opportunities or in the right positions.  Memory could be faulty, but I tend to agree with WASJU that he should be far far from this list.  Almost like someone trying to put Larry Wright on this list.

Good points guys.  I too thought he would be huge.  Maybe it's personal disappointment talking

Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2016, 12:28:07 PM »
James Scott for me, 100%.

Anyone who played for Mahoney or Norm should be excluded from this because they were not coached at all.

Mahoney wasn't a good coach. He was horrible. But some of kids were so selfish, they just ignored good direction, and I witnessed Mahoney giving it to several players. Zendon wasn't able to be coached by Mahoney or Frascilla. At that point, who gets the blame? I put it on the player.

So if a player has multiple coaches, neither of whom reach him, he is uncoachable?  Isn't it just as possible that neither were good coaches?

Fran dropped his pants and grabbed his sack in front of the team.  Maybe some of you old geezers find that old school and reminsicent of the good old days, but yeah would not be a preferred method of a "good" coach if you ask me.

Fran was a great recruiter and OK coach at times.  That's enough to succeed in college as long as you dont do anything stupid. 

It's not like Zendon was coached by Louie or Coach K or Brad Stevens or Boeheim (for you Poison) here.  It was Mahoney and Fraschilla.

I don't think Fran gets enough credit for having  confidence enough in his junk to drop his pants in front of a bunch of 6-6 guys. I mean if he wasn't "up" to that it totally would undermine whatever point he was trying to make

wpc77

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2016, 12:29:10 PM »
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

Poison

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2016, 01:34:58 PM »
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

I'm talking about before Mahoney tried to make him a point guard. His sophomore season at St.John's we finished second place to Seton Hall and came within a few points of the sweet 16. That's because during that season, and that season alone, Mahoney had a point guard who was able to get the very best out of every player we had.

Derek Brown, Charles Minlend, Shawnelle Scott and Lamont Middleton played beautiful team basketball. Perhaps you forgot about that season? I'm sure a lot of people have, but it was one of the best seasons any St.John's team has had in a long time.

Brown just fit in. He didn't have to score 24 points per game to be a dangerous player, because Cain made every player on that team dangerous for one year. Replacing David Cain with James Scott was the end of that team. He ruined any cohesiveness they had by being a selfish ball hog, and a pretty shitty shooter as well. Not that it ever stopped him.

Poison

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2016, 01:35:51 PM »
James Scott for me, 100%.

Anyone who played for Mahoney or Norm should be excluded from this because they were not coached at all.

Mahoney wasn't a good coach. He was horrible. But some of kids were so selfish, they just ignored good direction, and I witnessed Mahoney giving it to several players. Zendon wasn't able to be coached by Mahoney or Frascilla. At that point, who gets the blame? I put it on the player.

So if a player has multiple coaches, neither of whom reach him, he is uncoachable?  Isn't it just as possible that neither were good coaches?

Fran dropped his pants and grabbed his sack in front of the team.  Maybe some of you old geezers find that old school and reminsicent of the good old days, but yeah would not be a preferred method of a "good" coach if you ask me.

Fran was a great recruiter and OK coach at times.  That's enough to succeed in college as long as you dont do anything stupid. 

It's not like Zendon was coached by Louie or Coach K or Brad Stevens or Boeheim (for you Poison) here.  It was Mahoney and Fraschilla.

I don't think Fran gets enough credit for having  confidence enough in his junk to drop his pants in front of a bunch of 6-6 guys. I mean if he wasn't "up" to that it totally would undermine whatever point he was trying to make

Fran was just trying to say that they didn't have any balls, and he was right. They didn't.

Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2016, 01:36:58 PM »
Rob Cornegy
Tom Bayne
Mohammed Diatke
Abe Kieta
Adele Coker
All big men who did or did next to nothing. Most if not all came in with some bit of renown. Remember fantasizing that Tom Bayne could be the next Bob Lanier (both big hefty lefties  :)).   

TONYD3

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2016, 01:37:19 PM »
Who was better Paris Horne or Derrick brown?

Foad

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2016, 01:37:52 PM »
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

I'm talking about before Mahoney tried to make him a point guard. His sophomore season at St.John's we finished second place to Seton Hall and came within a few points of the sweet 16. That's because during that season, and that season alone, Mahoney had a point guard who was able to get the very best out of every player we had.

Derek Brown, Charles Minlend, Shawnelle Scott and Lamont Middleton played beautiful team basketball. Perhaps you forgot about that season? I'm sure a lot of people have, but it was one of the best seasons any St.John's team has had in a long time.

Brown just fit in. He didn't have to score 24 points per game to be a dangerous player, because Cain made every player on that team dangerous for one year. Replacing David Cain with James Scott was the end of that team. He ruined any cohesiveness they had by being a selfish ball hog, and a pretty shitty shooter as well. Not that it ever stopped him.

I hear Pravda is hiring.

Poison

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2016, 01:46:00 PM »
Who was better Paris Horne or Derrick brown?

Horne IMO. He played good defense. Brown was good in the open court, but only if another player set him up. Horne was similar in that regard.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 02:10:45 PM by Poison »

wpc77

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2016, 01:46:24 PM »
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?
Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

I'm talking about before Mahoney tried to make him a point guard. His sophomore season at St.John's we finished second place to Seton Hall and came within a few points of the sweet 16. That's because during that season, and that season alone, Mahoney had a point guard who was able to get the very best out of every player we had.

Derek Brown, Charles Minlend, Shawnelle Scott and Lamont Middleton played beautiful team basketball. Perhaps you forgot about that season? I'm sure a lot of people have, but it was one of the best seasons any St.John's team has had in a long time.

Brown just fit in. He didn't have to score 24 points per game to be a dangerous player, because Cain made every player on that team dangerous for one year. Replacing David Cain with James Scott was the end of that team. He ruined any cohesiveness they had by being a selfish ball hog, and a pretty shitty shooter as well. Not that it ever stopped him.

I haven't forgotten about anything.  We aren't talking about that.  We are talking about how you wrote "as a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league"
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 02:01:00 PM by wpc77 »

Poison

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2016, 01:47:46 PM »
Rob Cornegy
Tom Bayne
Mohammed Diatke
Abe Kieta
Adele Coker
All big men who did or did next to nothing. Most if not all came in with some bit of renown. Remember fantasizing that Tom Bayne could be the next Bob Lanier (both big hefty lefties  :)).   

Those guys had no talent. I'm sure it was more frustrating for them.

jr49

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2016, 01:48:56 PM »
Luis Felipe López,  hands down.  Never making an NCAA tournament in 4 years.  His highest scoring average was his Freshman year. For a guy who was arguably the best player in his class high school class ,  the bar was set so high.

Made the tourney his senior year with Fran
and Ron who should have taken the last shot vs. Detroit. Erick King because I thought he was gonna be good. All he did was float around the perimeter. 

Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2016, 01:57:48 PM »
Justin Burrell.  Plenty of potential, just seemed that he couldn't put it all together

Poison

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Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2016, 01:59:15 PM »
Luis Felipe López,  hands down.  Never making an NCAA tournament in 4 years.  His highest scoring average was his Freshman year. For a guy who was arguably the best player in his class high school class ,  the bar was set so high.

Made the tourney his senior year with Fran
and Ron who should have taken the last shot vs. Detroit. Erick King because I thought he was gonna be good. All he did was float around the perimeter. 

King is a good one. He was lazy, but he could have a great college player if he had a motor, but he just didn't play hard. I remember Jarvis calling him out all the time.

Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2016, 03:14:06 PM »
Geno
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Re: Most Frustrating player...
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2016, 03:31:16 PM »
Omar Cook.  Good numbers his freshman year, but I've never seen a guy average so many assists and still seem selfish.  He foolishly left early instead of developing his game and it really hindered his chances for NBA stardom.