Most Frustrating player...

Geno

His category is player that watching him made you want to punch yourself in the face

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 11:14:51 AM

Forgot about another name - Derek Brown.   Came in hyped up as a top athlete and scorer who could play the 2 and grow into a point, ended up being awful. 

Was not highly recruited, had a nice Soph year, got hurt than played out of position. Not sure how he would or should make this list

I liked Derek Brown.  Was relatively lightly recruited out of Carey High School in Franklin Square.  He was an above average player for us, though.  He was a combo guard that really lacked a penetration dribble, and when he shot he brought the ball way to far in front of him  which made it to easy to block and made it less of a good shot.  But he was definitely a pretty good player for us.  I agree with you we are, I don't think he belongs on this list at all.

Quote from: Moose on April 27, 2016, 10:38:38 PM

If Cook stayed. With Hatten and Shaw that would have been a scary 3 headed monster. Cook and Hatten penetrated and Willie camped out in the corner

I believe the only reason we got Hatten was because Cook was all but a lock to enter the draft at that point (late April). I think he even announced the same week.

Marcus verballed on 4/26
Cook left on 5/8

http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2001/17/20010426-archive815.html

http://www.redstormsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/050801aaa.html

Speaking of the McDonalds All American class of 94', which was supposed to rival the 81' class with Jordan, Ewing, Mullin and everyone else, it was a major bust.  The point guards included Kareem Reid, Wojo, and one Neil Reed, who not only was a terrible player, but totally sabotaged the career of Bobby Knight. Knight could have never imagined at the time what the recruitment of this All American would bring to him and the program.  Was probably psyched after he got him.

Speaking of the McDonalds All American class of 94', which was supposed to rival the 81' class with Jordan, Ewing, Mullin and everyone else, it was a major bust.  The point guards included Kareem Reid, Wojo, and one Neil Reed, who not only was a terrible player, but totally sabotaged the career of Bobby Knight. Knight could have never imagined at the time what the recruitment of this All American would bring to him and the program.  Was probably psyched after he got him.

I posted on some of this earlier...pretty objectively I think it's fair to say Felipe had the 6th best combined college/NBA career from that class.   It was a bust of epic proportions.  Other than Antoine Walker not a single NBA All-star from the bunch.  Not sure how that compares to other years but for what was supposed to be an epic class, to only have one all star (and only a 3x all star at that), huge bust.

Wasn't Iverson in that year. First time I saw Iverson I knew who the best freshman was and then best player in the conference

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 01:34:58 PM

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

I'm talking about before Mahoney tried to make him a point guard. His sophomore season at St.John's we finished second place to Seton Hall and came within a few points of the sweet 16. That's because during that season, and that season alone, Mahoney had a point guard who was able to get the very best out of every player we had.

Derek Brown, Charles Minlend, Shawnelle Scott and Lamont Middleton played beautiful team basketball. Perhaps you forgot about that season? I'm sure a lot of people have, but it was one of the best seasons any St.John's team has had in a long time.

Brown just fit in. He didn't have to score 24 points per game to be a dangerous player, because Cain made every player on that team dangerous for one year. Replacing David Cain with James Scott was the end of that team. He ruined any cohesiveness they had by being a selfish ball hog, and a pretty shitty shooter as well. Not that it ever stopped him.

I haven't forgotten about anything.  We aren't talking about that.  We are talking about how you wrote "as a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league"

I meant as a sophomore. He didn't play as a freshman, but the talent was there. We all had high hopes. The point was he was a very good player until he no longer had Cain to find him.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 28, 2016, 03:14:06 PM

Geno

His category is player that watching him made you want to punch yourself in the face

As I scanned through nearly 3 pages of comments, I was surprised to not find Geno be mentioned and thought well folks have eased of him as the MOST disappointing which I did not find him to be.  One of my choices would be an all city CHSAA first teamer who averaged 25 points per game as a senior, Mike Cavativo.  McDonald's AA Elijah Ingram was a major disappointment in both on and off court categories.  Or how about the walk on water guard-Nuri Lindsey.  At least Geno did not walk out on the team and the school when things got rough nor disgrace the university.

Sproling

Sproling

Played his best ball for us in NCAA tourney to get to Elite 8

Sproling and Elijah Ingrahm

Wasn't Iverson in that year. First time I saw Iverson I knew who the best freshman was and then best player in the conference

Wasn't he the same year as Ray Allen and Kittles?    Embarrassment of riches for the Big East.
Terry Deheere too?

My memory could be off

Sean Evans.    Thought he could, and should, dribble the basketball.
That right there makes him the most frustrating player I've ever rooted for. 

Speaking of the McDonalds All American class of 94', which was supposed to rival the 81' class with Jordan, Ewing, Mullin and everyone else, it was a major bust.  The point guards inclu ???ded Kareem Reid, Wojo, and one Neil Reed, who not only was a terrible player, but totally sabotaged the career of Bobby Knight. Knight could have never imagined at the time what the recruitment of this All American would bring to him and the program.  Was probably psyched after he got him.

Yeah, what a terrible thing Neil Reed did slipping his neck in between poor Bobby Knight's hands and forcing himself to be choked.

Quote from: 96 Schermerhorn Street on April 28, 2016, 04:36:57 PM

Wasn't Iverson in that year. First time I saw Iverson I knew who the best freshman was and then best player in the conference

Wasn't he the same year as Ray Allen and Kittles?    Embarrassment of riches for the Big East.
Terry Deheere too?

My memory could be off

Dehere was gone by the time Ray Allen and Kerry Kittles arrived. Allen was a freshman during the 93-94 season, and he came off the bench. AI and Lopez arrived the following year. But really, Lopez never actually arrived.

Quote from: WillieG on April 28, 2016, 04:04:27 PM

Speaking of the McDonalds All American class of 94', which was supposed to rival the 81' class with Jordan, Ewing, Mullin and everyone else, it was a major bust.  The point guards inclu ???ded Kareem Reid, Wojo, and one Neil Reed, who not only was a terrible player, but totally sabotaged the career of Bobby Knight. Knight could have never imagined at the time what the recruitment of this All American would bring to him and the program.  Was probably psyched after he got him.

Yeah, what a terrible thing Neil Reed did slipping his neck in between poor Bobby Knight's hands and forcing himself to be choked.

LOL.  That's funny.  But what really happened was Reed was verbally abusing his teammates and Knight just placed his hand on his throat gently.  In other words shut your mouth.  There was no force behind it.  ESPN slowed the video down to make it look like he did it for much longer then he really did.  He did it for less then two seconds.  Certainly not a choke.  When he transferred to some mid major in the south, the coach there said Reed was the most disruptive player he has ever been around.  Not a good recruit for knight, but he played in that game at Alumni Hall.  I was there and I remember thinking what does everyone see in this guy.  But I was sure I was wrong since Knight recruited him.

Not an apologist for Knight but just trying to set the record straight.  I have a problem with him because he seems to have a problem with Coach Carnesecca.  Knight goes over the top too much, but I think he is actually a good guy though.

Bobby Knight never did anything gently, probably even making love to his wife...while she was pregnant. 

Quote from: mjmaherjr on April 28, 2016, 04:45:41 PM

Sproling

Played his best ball for us in NCAA tourney to get to Elite 8

he did but oh man were our expectations high for him. We started at soju same year. We thought he was going to be big time after he had to sit the first year

Quote from: Celtics11 on April 28, 2016, 10:32:27 PM

Quote from: WillieG on April 28, 2016, 04:04:27 PM

Speaking of the McDonalds All American class of 94', which was supposed to rival the 81' class with Jordan, Ewing, Mullin and everyone else, it was a major bust.  The point guards inclu ???ded Kareem Reid, Wojo, and one Neil Reed, who not only was a terrible player, but totally sabotaged the career of Bobby Knight. Knight could have never imagined at the time what the recruitment of this All American would bring to him and the program.  Was probably psyched after he got him.

Yeah, what a terrible thing Neil Reed did slipping his neck in between poor Bobby Knight's hands and forcing himself to be choked.

LOL.  That's funny.  But what really happened was Reed was verbally abusing his teammates and Knight just placed his hand on his throat gently.  In other words shut your mouth.  There was no force behind it.  ESPN slowed the video down to make it look like he did it for much longer then he really did.  He did it for less then two seconds.  Certainly not a choke.  When he transferred to some mid major in the south, the coach there said Reed was the most disruptive player he has ever been around.  Not a good recruit for knight, but he played in that game at Alumni Hall.  I was there and I remember thinking what does everyone see in this guy.  But I was sure I was wrong since Knight recruited him.

Not an apologist for Knight but just trying to set the record straight.  I have a problem with him because he seems to have a problem with Coach Carnesecca.  Knight goes over the top too much, but I think he is actually a good guy though.

Knight is a f'n nice person. Have you seen the news today?

Quote from: WillieG on April 28, 2016, 11:05:47 PM

Quote from: Celtics11 on April 28, 2016, 10:32:27 PM

Quote from: WillieG on April 28, 2016, 04:04:27 PM

Speaking of the McDonalds All American class of 94', which was supposed to rival the 81' class with Jordan, Ewing, Mullin and everyone else, it was a major bust.  The point guards inclu ???ded Kareem Reid, Wojo, and one Neil Reed, who not only was a terrible player, but totally sabotaged the career of Bobby Knight. Knight could have never imagined at the time what the recruitment of this All American would bring to him and the program.  Was probably psyched after he got him.

Yeah, what a terrible thing Neil Reed did slipping his neck in between poor Bobby Knight's hands and forcing himself to be choked.

LOL.  That's funny.  But what really happened was Reed was verbally abusing his teammates and Knight just placed his hand on his throat gently.  In other words shut your mouth.  There was no force behind it.  ESPN slowed the video down to make it look like he did it for much longer then he really did.  He did it for less then two seconds.  Certainly not a choke.  When he transferred to some mid major in the south, the coach there said Reed was the most disruptive player he has ever been around.  Not a good recruit for knight, but he played in that game at Alumni Hall.  I was there and I remember thinking what does everyone see in this guy.  But I was sure I was wrong since Knight recruited him.

Not an apologist for Knight but just trying to set the record straight.  I have a problem with him because he seems to have a problem with Coach Carnesecca.  Knight goes over the top too much, but I think he is actually a good guy though.

Knight is a f'n nice person. Have you seen the news today?

thank you!  Knight   a guy who needed a good ass kicking