Anthony Livingston

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2016, 11:42:16 AM »
Why is the tone changing so drastically on this thread? I want him.  He fills an immediate need, preserves a scholarship for '17, and makes us more competitive next season.  He gives the coaching staff options and helps in certain matchups. His coming on does not impede the growth and development of Sima, Yakwe, or Owens.  In fact, he frees them up to play to their strengths.

There is no downside to signing him except for the possible blowback from a PR standpoint.

PR would be great!
ST John's and Livingston "electrify" the Garden
ST John's behind Livingston "jolt" defending champs
I could go on.....


And you will. :)

Just for the record I come from a family of cops and firefighters so I do not mean to make light of the whole punching a cop thing. I just always separate athletes and entertainers from what they do off the court / field / stage / movie set.

Now with that out of the way, the taser scene in the first Hangover movie and the one in Shameless when Frank Loses the bet were hysterical and why I am having a hard time letting it go   :)

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2016, 12:35:14 PM »
Just for the record I come from a family of cops and firefighters 

I married into one.  What a bunch of a**holes.

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2016, 02:07:22 PM »
Per KenPom, Livingston had a higher Offensive Rating than any player on our roster last year.  He shot 48% from the field and 86% from the line in addition to being a burly rebounder (higher defensive rebounding % than any on last year's team). 

I don't think his addition puts us into the tournament or even above .500, but I'd bet we are a better team with him in the rotation.

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2016, 06:09:47 PM »
Distance is a non-issue. DC is 4 hours from NYC. Morgantown  is a little over 3 hours from DC.

There are def more tasers in NYC than Morgantown though. Not sure if that will factor in or not?

What would factor in is West Virginia would still take him, in my opinion, if his hearing in June did not go his way. Not sure SJU would, but it could be a moot point if charges are dismissed.

If that is the case I doubt kid waits around a month and would not seem in his best interest to pick us

He could commit to us, based on his legal team's confidence in charges being dismissed, but your point is fair. I am just thinking out loud on this.

The kid would certainly help this year and would allow unlimited taser jokes which I am pretty happy with. But honestly he will not be a difference maker for us to make the tourney and will take minutes away from Sima /Yakwe and for us the year to circle is really 2017/18 so I am fine personally however this turns out.

Hey after last year, I'd take the NIT in a heartbeat. Maybe win the damned thing, and set us up nicely for a deep 17-18 NCAA run.
Hells f'ing yeah I'll take the nit next year.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 06:10:55 PM by mullin85berry86 »

desco80

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2016, 06:42:12 PM »
Why is the tone changing so drastically on this thread? I want him.  He fills an immediate need, preserves a scholarship for '17, and makes us more competitive next season.  He gives the coaching staff options and helps in certain matchups. His coming on does not impede the growth and development of Sima, Yakwe, or Owens.  In fact, he frees them up to play to their strengths.

There is no downside to signing him except for the possible blowback from a PR standpoint.

There's also the whole losing our principles and values.   Some would call that a "downside".   

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2016, 07:05:50 PM »
Distance is a non-issue. DC is 4 hours from NYC. Morgantown  is a little over 3 hours from DC.

There are def more tasers in NYC than Morgantown though. Not sure if that will factor in or not?

What would factor in is West Virginia would still take him, in my opinion, if his hearing in June did not go his way. Not sure SJU would, but it could be a moot point if charges are dismissed.

If he commits then he goes to jail, do we get that ship back? If so then what's to lose?

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2016, 07:11:48 PM »
Why is the tone changing so drastically on this thread? I want him.  He fills an immediate need, preserves a scholarship for '17, and makes us more competitive next season.  He gives the coaching staff options and helps in certain matchups. His coming on does not impede the growth and development of Sima, Yakwe, or Owens.  In fact, he frees them up to play to their strengths.

There is no downside to signing him except for the possible blowback from a PR standpoint.

There's also the whole losing our principles and values.   Some would call that a "downside".

Sometimes people think about how their life is going, look at DLo (i know he didn't punch a cop.), was always angry, but then he changedafter Lavin sent him home.
People do change sometimes. I'd take him for a year.

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2016, 07:44:07 PM »
Desco I don't know enough about the incident to pass that judgment. As I said before, given his background, family circumstances and charitable work, I think there are probably few college coaches who are more connected to the police force than Chris Mullin.  He certainly knows more about this situation than we do. If he is comfortable, so am I.



Why is the tone changing so drastically on this thread? I want him.  He fills an immediate need, preserves a scholarship for '17, and makes us more competitive next season.  He gives the coaching staff options and helps in certain matchups. His coming on does not impede the growth and development of Sima, Yakwe, or Owens.  In fact, he frees them up to play to their strengths.

There is no downside to signing him except for the possible blowback from a PR standpoint.

There's also the whole losing our principles and values.   Some would call that a "downside".   

desco80

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2016, 08:22:32 PM »
Why is the tone changing so drastically on this thread? I want him.  He fills an immediate need, preserves a scholarship for '17, and makes us more competitive next season.  He gives the coaching staff options and helps in certain matchups. His coming on does not impede the growth and development of Sima, Yakwe, or Owens.  In fact, he frees them up to play to their strengths.

There is no downside to signing him except for the possible blowback from a PR standpoint.

There's also the whole losing our principles and values.   Some would call that a "downside".

Sometimes people think about how their life is going, look at DLo (i know he didn't punch a cop.), was always angry, but then he changedafter Lavin sent him home.
People do change sometimes. I'd take him for a year.

Second chances are different from "awards".
A scholarship is an award.

Also ... personal issues whether they be anger or drug use, often lead to run in with authorities.  Whether it be teachers coaches or police.
But there is no way to logically compare D'Angelo Harrisons demonstrativeness, or even the rumors about him getting in Hines's face at practice... with a felony charge. 

And I do agree that Mullin generally wants to do the right thing, he isn't looking to pick a fight with the administration, and he is self-assured enough not to think he NEEDS this one recruit or the walls will fall in.
That's the only reason I say I could take it or leave it .... bc Mullin seems ok with Livingston.  That does mean something. 

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #89 on: May 03, 2016, 01:12:07 AM »
There's also the whole losing our principles and values.     

What do principles and values have to do with college basketball?

goredmen

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #90 on: May 03, 2016, 01:20:13 AM »
There's also the whole losing our principles and values.     

What do principles and values have to do with college basketball?

+1

Foad

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #91 on: May 03, 2016, 10:06:59 AM »
There's also the whole losing our principles and values

Whose values?

And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #92 on: May 03, 2016, 10:33:07 AM »
Neither I nor anyone else posting on this board has enough knowledge of the details of Livingston's arrest to assess the situation or judge his character, nor do we know at this time whether his charges will be reduced or dropped entirely.  As has been stated, CM and the coaching staff have most likely investigated both very carefully, and would not be inclined to endanger the school's reputation or negatively affect the character of the team if they were not completely satisfied with what they have learned.

Given CM's personal history, and his everyday struggles as a recovering alcoholic, it seems that he might be inclined to extend a second chance to a young man if he felt that such consideration were warranted.

Even considering the seriousness of the charges pending, I am in favor of allowing CM and staff the leeway to assemble the team they choose to best represent St. John's University.

Marillac

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #93 on: May 03, 2016, 12:50:09 PM »
Why is the tone changing so drastically on this thread? I want him.  He fills an immediate need, preserves a scholarship for '17, and makes us more competitive next season.  He gives the coaching staff options and helps in certain matchups. His coming on does not impede the growth and development of Sima, Yakwe, or Owens.  In fact, he frees them up to play to their strengths.

There is no downside to signing him except for the possible blowback from a PR standpoint.

There's also the whole losing our principles and values.   Some would call that a "downside".

Sometimes people think about how their life is going, look at DLo (i know he didn't punch a cop.), was always angry, but then he changedafter Lavin sent him home.
People do change sometimes. I'd take him for a year.

Second chances are different from "awards".
A scholarship is an award.

Also ... personal issues whether they be anger or drug use, often lead to run in with authorities.  Whether it be teachers coaches or police.
But there is no way to logically compare D'Angelo Harrisons demonstrativeness, or even the rumors about him getting in Hines's face at practice... with a felony charge. 

And I do agree that Mullin generally wants to do the right thing, he isn't looking to pick a fight with the administration, and he is self-assured enough not to think he NEEDS this one recruit or the walls will fall in.
That's the only reason I say I could take it or leave it .... bc Mullin seems ok with Livingston.  That does mean something. 

I don't like to get serious, but this is a shockingly close-minded post out of you. This incident went down at a mental health facility not a frat party or club. He was presumably seeking treatment. You don't know what he was dealing with or how much  control he had over his actions at that time. His size alone can make a pussy cop elevate a fairly routine situation into something like this out of fear.  I doubt a 100-pound sorority chick gets the same result.

desco80

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #94 on: May 03, 2016, 01:14:41 PM »
Why is the tone changing so drastically on this thread? I want him.  He fills an immediate need, preserves a scholarship for '17, and makes us more competitive next season.  He gives the coaching staff options and helps in certain matchups. His coming on does not impede the growth and development of Sima, Yakwe, or Owens.  In fact, he frees them up to play to their strengths.

There is no downside to signing him except for the possible blowback from a PR standpoint.

There's also the whole losing our principles and values.   Some would call that a "downside".

Sometimes people think about how their life is going, look at DLo (i know he didn't punch a cop.), was always angry, but then he changedafter Lavin sent him home.
People do change sometimes. I'd take him for a year.

Second chances are different from "awards".
A scholarship is an award.

Also ... personal issues whether they be anger or drug use, often lead to run in with authorities.  Whether it be teachers coaches or police.
But there is no way to logically compare D'Angelo Harrisons demonstrativeness, or even the rumors about him getting in Hines's face at practice... with a felony charge. 

And I do agree that Mullin generally wants to do the right thing, he isn't looking to pick a fight with the administration, and he is self-assured enough not to think he NEEDS this one recruit or the walls will fall in.
That's the only reason I say I could take it or leave it .... bc Mullin seems ok with Livingston.  That does mean something. 

I don't like to get serious, but this is a shockingly close-minded post out of you. This incident went down at a mental health facility not a frat party or club. He was presumably seeking treatment. You don't know what he was dealing with or how much  control he had over his actions at that time. His size alone can make a pussy cop elevate a fairly routine situation into something like this out of fear.  I doubt a 100-pound sorority chick gets the same result.

Marillac, I understand the mental health aspect to this.  And it's not at all uncommon.   I represent criminal defendants all the time, the vast majority of whom suffer from scizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, or some inter related ailment.

I fully believe in giving these guys (and gals) a second chance.  And I go to work every day with  a spiel  in the back of my head regarding that client's ties to the community, his family situation, the isolated nature of the offense,  his remorse etc.

But a second chance from the justice system is different than awarding someone a scholarship. 
Fun is right to point out the new testaments teachings on acceptance and redemption.   
But helping a person is likewise very different from selecting them for an elite position.
Violent crimes are (rightfully) treated much differently than perceived self-inflicted acts like drug abuse, or even larceny which can be repaid and the owner made whole again.

We punish violence against authority figures more severely because we need to ensure society can function.    Hitting your neighbor is bad, but hitting a cop (or fireman, bus driver, train conductor etc) is worse because you are interfering with his ability to protect everyone else and provide a necessary service.   In effect, you're hurting the whole city. 

I would have been against Lavin doing this, as I was when he brought Artis in for a visit, and even the recruitment of Keith Thomas.   

But at least in the case of Thomas he had put several years between himself and the incident.   Livingstons transgression is relatively fresh.
The primary mission of SJU is not to entertain us on the basketball court.   We shouldn't give out scholarships unless the athlete achieves a certain minimum level of civility and morality.
Same as they must meet minimum education requirements.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 01:16:44 PM by desco80 »

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #95 on: May 03, 2016, 02:12:27 PM »
Desco, you say you represent people with mental health issues so you must be familiar with not being responsible for your actions due to mental disease or defect. Incident apparently happened at a MH facility and Mr. Livingston may have been off his medication. He could have been suffering from an episode of paranoia and thought the officer was trying to hurt or even kill him. Again, we don't know all the facts so none of us should be passing any judgments on this situation. Disposition of the case could easily be that he continues to receive mental health treatment.

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #96 on: May 03, 2016, 02:34:37 PM »
According to a posting on Redmen, a local article from May 29, 2015, states that Livingston was ordered to undergo a mental health evaluation and to appear in court on June 29th, 2015.  That almost a year has passed since that time without a ruling being issued could indicate that he has successfully met requirements for his treatment plan and might expect a favorable resolution of those charges.  Seems reasonable that we should know more about his case and his recruitment shortly.

Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #97 on: May 03, 2016, 02:47:13 PM »
Might also be significant that after this incident he played all of last season at Arkansas State, apparently without further problems.

SJUFAN

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #98 on: May 03, 2016, 06:17:50 PM »
Why is the tone changing so drastically on this thread? I want him.  He fills an immediate need, preserves a scholarship for '17, and makes us more competitive next season.  He gives the coaching staff options and helps in certain matchups. His coming on does not impede the growth and development of Sima, Yakwe, or Owens.  In fact, he frees them up to play to their strengths.

There is no downside to signing him except for the possible blowback from a PR standpoint.

There's also the whole losing our principles and values.   Some would call that a "downside".

Sometimes people think about how their life is going, look at DLo (i know he didn't punch a cop.), was always angry, but then he changedafter Lavin sent him home.
People do change sometimes. I'd take him for a year.

Second chances are different from "awards".
A scholarship is an award.

Also ... personal issues whether they be anger or drug use, often lead to run in with authorities.  Whether it be teachers coaches or police.
But there is no way to logically compare D'Angelo Harrisons demonstrativeness, or even the rumors about him getting in Hines's face at practice... with a felony charge. 

And I do agree that Mullin generally wants to do the right thing, he isn't looking to pick a fight with the administration, and he is self-assured enough not to think he NEEDS this one recruit or the walls will fall in.
That's the only reason I say I could take it or leave it .... bc Mullin seems ok with Livingston.  That does mean something. 

I don't like to get serious, but this is a shockingly close-minded post out of you. This incident went down at a mental health facility not a frat party or club. He was presumably seeking treatment. You don't know what he was dealing with or how much  control he had over his actions at that time. His size alone can make a pussy cop elevate a fairly routine situation into something like this out of fear.  I doubt a 100-pound sorority chick gets the same result.

We punish violence against authority figures more severely because we need to ensure society can function.    Hitting your neighbor is bad, but hitting a cop (or fireman, bus driver, train conductor etc) is worse because you are interfering with his ability to protect everyone else and provide a necessary service.   In effect, you're hurting the whole city. 

And we punish authority figures less severely for violence against society because....well...I guess someone has to do it.
There is only a charge, not a finding. There is so much we are not privy too we should trust the staffs judgment. 

MCNPA

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Re: Anthony Livingston
« Reply #99 on: May 06, 2016, 08:50:57 AM »
Any rumblings on this front?