An Xs and Os Assistant

Just was wondering.
With the talent collected through transfers and eligibility  I am somewhat optimistic for this season. The talent we have going forward past this season with the Simon addition also looks promising. But as a johnnie fan there is that doubting voice in me that hopes this talent is not wasted and plays together to their full potential.

Eventually do you see Mullin bringing in a top assistant in a couple years to fill that Dunlap role to ensure the talent pans out? Often it seemed as if St. Jean was coaching the team more than Mullin last year. While he is nice addition I think a top notch assistant should also be added.  Instead of spending the money on 2 top notch recruiters, would you guys have preferred one and a Dunlap level assistant to balance it out with St. Jean helping and learning?

Just was wondering.
With the talent collected through transfers and eligibility  I am somewhat optimistic for this season. The talent we have going forward past this season with the Simon addition also looks promising. But as a johnnie fan there is that doubting voice in me that hopes this talent is not wasted and plays together to their full potential.

Eventually do you see Mullin bringing in a top assistant in a couple years to fill that Dunlap role to ensure the talent pans out? Often it seemed as if St. Jean was coaching the team more than Mullin last year. While he is nice addition I think a top notch assistant should also be added.  Instead of spending the money on 2 top notch recruiters, would you guys have preferred one and a Dunlap level assistant to balance it out with St. Jean helping and learning?

I don't think ST jean needs an X and O guy. Have to give him at least a year with decent players before you can make a judgement on his coaching

We assemble this team. We pay a coaching staff this much. And leave it to be coached by a 24 year old. Who never coached a hs game. Never called a timeout. Never made a sub. If he is left alone to coach the team I think we are in big trouble. This is not a knock on st. Jean . I think he is plenty impressive. My hope is he developing and working with players. I think he should have a say in the game plan. I think he should do some in game coaching. But he is the 4th coach and should be treated like one. Experience is a huge part of being a coach.

Just was wondering.
With the talent collected through transfers and eligibility  I am somewhat optimistic for this season. The talent we have going forward past this season with the Simon addition also looks promising. But as a johnnie fan there is that doubting voice in me that hopes this talent is not wasted and plays together to their full potential.

Eventually do you see Mullin bringing in a top assistant in a couple years to fill that Dunlap role to ensure the talent pans out? Often it seemed as if St. Jean was coaching the team more than Mullin last year. While he is nice addition I think a top notch assistant should also be added.  Instead of spending the money on 2 top notch recruiters, would you guys have preferred one and a Dunlap level assistant to balance it out with St. Jean helping and learning?

I've been thinking about it hat. Would love to have a great XO coach. The problem is who do you get rid of ? A lot of knowledgeable posters really like Slice.

Show up and say that  to CM,

Eventually do you see Mullin bringing in a top assistant in a couple years to fill that Dunlap role to ensure the talent pans out?

No. Steve Lavin needed a top assistant like Dunlap because Steve Lavin is a buffoon who doesn't know anything about basketball, is an atrocious coach, and an appalling self-involved vacuous gasbag. He needed a top assistant because he was too stupid to perform the work he wasn't too fat and lazy to drag himself away from the dinner table to actually attempt. Chris Mullin on the other hand is a basketball genius and is motivated to succeed. In a little more than a year he has assembled a top notch staff and recruited more talent than the program has seen in 20 years. He seems to be doing just fine and to the extent that your doubting voices and wondering is not merely passive aggressive disparagement of his abilities you should get over it.

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on April 28, 2016, 04:00:17 PM

Eventually do you see Mullin bringing in a top assistant in a couple years to fill that Dunlap role to ensure the talent pans out?

No. Steve Lavin needed a top assistant like Dunlap because Steve Lavin is a buffoon who doesn't know anything about basketball, is an atrocious coach, and an appalling self-involved vacuous gasbag. He needed a top assistant because he was too stupid to perform the work he wasn't too fat and lazy to drag himself away from the dinner table to actually attempt. Chris Mullin on the other hand is a basketball genius and is motivated to succeed. In a little more than a year he has assembled a top notch staff and recruited more talent than the program has seen in 20 years. He seems to be doing just fine and to the extent that your doubting voices and wondering is not merely passive aggressive disparagement of his abilities you should get over it.

First off this is not a Steve Lavin ad hominem attack thread, lets be mature here.  Its a commentary of where we are now and where we need to be. What I saw this season was St. Jean being the face of the in-game coaching.  Mullin is a rookie  head coach and I am sorry but no one is above having a strong assistant to ensure the talent thrives. Do not be delusional.  Also look at it from a player's perspective. Yes, I believe St. Jean is liked by the players but I think they take an extra step with a veteran assistant who has been successful and they have a higher level of experience respect for.  Coaching is not playing and Mullin has a learning curve just like other new coaches.

Yes, I hope Mullin will be successful someday and I see promise with St. Jean but I think there is a missing piece that can ensure they take it to the next level at least in these early years. 

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on April 28, 2016, 04:00:17 PM

Eventually do you see Mullin bringing in a top assistant in a couple years to fill that Dunlap role to ensure the talent pans out?

No. Steve Lavin needed a top assistant like Dunlap because Steve Lavin is a buffoon who doesn't know anything about basketball, is an atrocious coach, and an appalling self-involved vacuous gasbag. He needed a top assistant because he was too stupid to perform the work he wasn't too fat and lazy to drag himself away from the dinner table to actually attempt. Chris Mullin on the other hand is a basketball genius and is motivated to succeed. In a little more than a year he has assembled a top notch staff and recruited more talent than the program has seen in 20 years. He seems to be doing just fine and to the extent that your doubting voices and wondering is not merely passive aggressive disparagement of his abilities you should get over it.

Mullin can show up to games in a bathrobe and read the papers and I would be fine with it. But that is based purely on what he did here as a player. At the end of the day I don't care who diagrams plays or holds the dry board. But if we are going to be honest Mullin looks in charge of his huddle about the same as my grandmother her last couple years  on Thanksgiving. She sort of walked around the kitchen observing things but didn't actually do any cooking.

First off this is not a Steve Lavin ad hominem attack thread, lets be mature here. 

LALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

Its a commentary of where we are now and where we need to be.

You have no idea where we were, no idea where are, and no idea how to get where we should be.

What I saw this season was St. Jean being the face of the in-game coaching.

 

Sorry, but you don't know little or nothing about basketball. Not your fault, you studied at the feet of Steve Lavin for five years. After that I'm surprised you can turn on your computer without breaking a bone. Here is someone who knows something about basketball explaining what coaching entails:

At times, Mullin sits in the huddle and directs his players, but he also has given St. Jean a prominent role in running practice and providing sideline instruction during games. That sometimes includes diagramming plays.

“Whatever we do, I tell him what I want written up, and he writes it up,” Mullin said.

“You do most of your preparation in practice. You can’t give these kids too much in a timeout. If you give them one thing and they remember it, you’re a genius.”

Mullin described the notion that Bird — and by extension himself — doesn’t know how to diagram a play as “comical,” and added that basketball really comes down to finding a way to put the ball in the basket.

“Larry would say, ‘Are you going to make a shot or what?’ That’s what it was. Period. Now, getting good looks, moving the ball, that’s the details you work on.

“To me, it’s like, Wow, they [media] really don’t know what happens in a basketball setting, do they? They think that a 30-second timeout is coaching. If you don’t know what you’re running and you’ve got to diagram it, you’re screwed.”

http://www.newsday.com/sports/college/college-basketball/st-john-s-coach-chris-mullin-weathers-the-storm-of-first-season-1.11542056


See, you're comical. It was in Newsday, it must be true.

<remainder hosed>

Quote from: Foad on April 29, 2016, 08:34:53 AM

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on April 28, 2016, 04:00:17 PM

Eventually do you see Mullin bringing in a top assistant in a couple years to fill that Dunlap role to ensure the talent pans out?

No. Steve Lavin needed a top assistant like Dunlap because Steve Lavin is a buffoon who doesn't know anything about basketball, is an atrocious coach, and an appalling self-involved vacuous gasbag. He needed a top assistant because he was too stupid to perform the work he wasn't too fat and lazy to drag himself away from the dinner table to actually attempt. Chris Mullin on the other hand is a basketball genius and is motivated to succeed. In a little more than a year he has assembled a top notch staff and recruited more talent than the program has seen in 20 years. He seems to be doing just fine and to the extent that your doubting voices and wondering is not merely passive aggressive disparagement of his abilities you should get over it.

Mullin can show up to games in a bathrobe and read the papers and I would be fine with it. But that is based purely on what he did here as a player. At the end of the day I don't care who diagrams plays or holds the dry board. But if we are going to be honest Mullin looks in charge of his huddle about the same as my grandmother her last couple years  on Thanksgiving. She sort of walked around the kitchen observing things but didn't actually do any cooking.

Right but does grandma delegate who makes the mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, Mac and cheese? Does she tell uncle joe to buy the cole slaw because she knows his is shit? As long as she is still the responsible party for the meal by way of delegation then she deserves the credit.  Technically even if she doesn't she spawned everyone there or the spouse of everyone there so she can prob take credit that way.   That's basically how I feel about Mullin.  Either he is delegating or teaching them or simply they are there because of him so if it works he's the man.

Why do some of you take such offense? When Lavin had Dunlap, we were a well coached team. When Lavin, coached without the help from his assistants, I thought the team was awfully coached. (Beginning of Harrison's junior season until about January). When Lavin, (seemed to listen to his assistants) the team looked much better coached. (From the middle Harrson's junior year until the end of last year )..

Last years team had zero talent. The staff for the most part got a pass. They brought in very good players. That pass won't be here this year. Very few of this group are going go spend money watching Us get killed.
No fan is anti Mullin, wining with him would be amazing. But it is not going to just happen. Showing up in fancy suits doesn't win games . Again well aware of lack of talent. Also remember losing to plenty of low teams and giving up 90 plus points way to often.

Mullin can show up to games in a bathrobe and read the papers and I would be fine with it. But that is based purely on what he did here as a player. At the end of the day I don't care who diagrams plays or holds the dry board. But if we are going to be honest Mullin looks in charge of his huddle about the same as my grandmother her last couple years  on Thanksgiving. She sort of walked around the kitchen observing things but didn't actually do any cooking.

I know you like your analogies,  but stick to fat broads. Did your grandmother hire the cooks, buy the ingredients, plan the recipe and make the only good meal your family has had in 50 years? Or is she a senile old bat. If the latter put her in a home. If the former, stop complaining about the food you haven't tasted yet.

You want to think Saint Jean is pushing Mullin around, that's your prerogative. I don't and IDGAF about the optics of it.

This week I've been treated to discussions about (1) whether SJ should get fire the head coach's best friend, the best recruiter in college basketball (2) how a guy who averaged a double double  was the most disappointing player in school history and (3) whether Chris Mullin can diagram an inbound play. The season cannot get here fast enough. In the meantime here are some ideas for possible threads:

Players who could not jump as high as they should been able to jump: My pick, Michael Porter.

Most disappointing walkon: tie, Andre Stanley, Phil Missere

Most disappointing brothers: three way tie, Mullins, Cluesses, DeLaRosas

Most disappointing local Politician: Rob Cornegy.

Worst NBA HOF player to have sat on SJU bench: tie, Willis Reed, Mitch Richmond

Discuss.

Why do some of you take such offense? When Lavin had Dunlap, we were a well coached team. When Lavin, coached without the help from his assistants, I thought the team was awfully coached. (Beginning of Harrison's junior season until about January). When Lavin, (seemed to listen to his assistants) the team looked much better coached. (From the middle Harrson's junior year until the end of last year )..

That team did not win games because they were well coached. They looked like they were well coached because they won games, which games they won despite the way they were coached.

Quote from: we are sju on April 29, 2016, 09:12:49 AM

Mullin can show up to games in a bathrobe and read the papers and I would be fine with it. But that is based purely on what he did here as a player. At the end of the day I don't care who diagrams plays or holds the dry board. But if we are going to be honest Mullin looks in charge of his huddle about the same as my grandmother her last couple years  on Thanksgiving. She sort of walked around the kitchen observing things but didn't actually do any cooking.

I know you like your analogies,  but stick to fat broads. Did your grandmother hire the cooks, buy the ingredients, plan the recipe and make the only good meal your family has had in 50 years? Or is she a senile old bat. If the latter put her in a home. If the former, stop complaining about the food you haven't tasted yet.

You want to think Saint Jean is pushing Mullin around, that's your prerogative. I don't and IDGAF about the optics of it.

This week I've been treated to discussions about (1) whether SJ should get fire the head coach's best friend, the best recruiter in college basketball (2) how a guy who averaged a double double  was the most disappointing player in school history and (3) whether Chris Mullin can diagram an inbound play. The season cannot get here fast enough. In the meantime here are some ideas for possible threads:

Players who could not jump as high as they should been able to jump: My pick, Michael Porter.

Most disappointing walkon: tie, Andre Stanley, Phil Missere

Most disappointing brothers: three way tie, Mullins, Cluesses, DeLaRosas

Most disappointing local Politician: Rob Cornegy.

Worst NBA HOF player to have sat on SJU bench: tie, Willis Reed, Mitch Richmond

Discuss.

Again at the end of the day I don't care and I am a Mullin guy no matter what. And if he had George Blaney or Mike Dunlap diagramming plays the optics would be better. Now this is just an observation from a guy with Mullin's poster still on the wall in his parents house. If things go badly imagine what people who don't care about Mullin will start to say. Personally I would like it if he looked more involved.

If we make the NIT and then start making tourney's no one will care and I don't either way. But if we struggle, I guarantee this starts to become an issue and with real people not just yahoos on message boards.

Quote from: we are sju on April 29, 2016, 09:12:49 AM

Quote from: Foad on April 29, 2016, 08:34:53 AM

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on April 28, 2016, 04:00:17 PM

Eventually do you see Mullin bringing in a top assistant in a couple years to fill that Dunlap role to ensure the talent pans out?

No. Steve Lavin needed a top assistant like Dunlap because Steve Lavin is a buffoon who doesn't know anything about basketball, is an atrocious coach, and an appalling self-involved vacuous gasbag. He needed a top assistant because he was too stupid to perform the work he wasn't too fat and lazy to drag himself away from the dinner table to actually attempt. Chris Mullin on the other hand is a basketball genius and is motivated to succeed. In a little more than a year he has assembled a top notch staff and recruited more talent than the program has seen in 20 years. He seems to be doing just fine and to the extent that your doubting voices and wondering is not merely passive aggressive disparagement of his abilities you should get over it.

Mullin can show up to games in a bathrobe and read the papers and I would be fine with it. But that is based purely on what he did here as a player. At the end of the day I don't care who diagrams plays or holds the dry board. But if we are going to be honest Mullin looks in charge of his huddle about the same as my grandmother her last couple years  on Thanksgiving. She sort of walked around the kitchen observing things but didn't actually do any cooking.

Right but does grandma delegate who makes the mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, Mac and cheese? Does she tell uncle joe to buy the cole slaw because she knows his is shit? As long as she is still the responsible party for the meal by way of delegation then she deserves the credit.  Technically even if she doesn't she spawned everyone there or the spouse of everyone there so she can prob take credit that way.   That's basically how I feel about Mullin.  Either he is delegating or teaching them or simply they are there because of him so if it works he's the man.

No but she would sometimes sit on a table so they have that in common

Again at the end of the day I don't care and I am a Mullin guy no matter what. And if he had George Blaney or Mike Dunlap diagramming plays the optics would be better. Now this is just an observation from a guy with Mullin's poster still on the wall in his parents house. If things go badly imagine what people who don't care about Mullin will start to say. Personally I would like it if he looked more involved.

Okay fine, but I don't care what it looks like. When Barack Obama decides to murder US citizens with drone strikes, he doesn't draw up the flight plan on a white board. The people are just as dead. Warren Buffet doesn't sit around day trading in his pajamas. He's just as rich. Basketball is the only sport where the coaches jump up and down on the sidelines like epileptics. Baseball managers occasionally rub their chests. The best coach in FB history stands around in a hoodie mumbling and figuring out new ways to cheat and delegates offense, defense and special teams to his assistants. Somehow if a basketball coach doesn't jump and scream like a mental patient its a reflection on his competence. It might be the only occupation in the US outside of wrestling where that sort of demonstrativeness is countenanced. Personally I think it's designed to disguise the fact that there's very little a coach can do on the sidelines to influence the outcome of a game.

If we make the NIT and then start making tourney's no one will care and I don't either way. But if we struggle, I guarantee this starts to become an issue and with real people not just yahoos on message boards.

If we struggle it should become an issue. A huge issue. Because if this school cannot win in short order with this staff and these players they should disband the program, burn CA down and sow the ground with salt. But the carping you hear is from professional malcontents, many of whom supported the former regime and are still butt hurt over his well deserved dismissal.

Quote from: we are sju on April 29, 2016, 10:18:24 AM

Again at the end of the day I don't care and I am a Mullin guy no matter what. And if he had George Blaney or Mike Dunlap diagramming plays the optics would be better. Now this is just an observation from a guy with Mullin's poster still on the wall in his parents house. If things go badly imagine what people who don't care about Mullin will start to say. Personally I would like it if he looked more involved.

Okay fine, but I don't care what it looks like. When Barack Obama decides to murder US citizens with drone strikes, he doesn't draw up the flight plan on a white board. The people are just as dead. Warren Buffet doesn't sit around day trading in his pajamas. He's just as rich. Basketball is the only sport where the coaches jump up and down on the sidelines like epileptics. Baseball managers occasionally rub their chests. The best coach in FB history stands around in a hoodie mumbling and figuring out new ways to cheat and delegates offense, defense and special teams to his assistants. Somehow if a basketball coach doesn't jump and scream like a mental patient its a reflection on his competence. It might be the only occupation in the US outside of wrestling where that sort of demonstrativeness is countenanced. Personally I think it's designed to disguise the fact that there's very little a coach can do on the sidelines to influence the outcome of a game.

Quote

If we make the NIT and then start making tourney's no one will care and I don't either way. But if we struggle, I guarantee this starts to become an issue and with real people not just yahoos on message boards.

If we struggle it should become an issue. A huge issue. Because if this school cannot win in short order with this staff and these players they should disband the program, burn CA down and sow the ground with salt. But the carping you hear is from professional malcontents, many of whom supported the former regime and are still butt hurt over his well deserved dismissal.

I understand delegation and your examples have merit. But I have personally also used delegation to push off shit I did not want to be bothered doing
Again just my opinion but I would have liked Mullin to have rolled up his sleeves and jumped into every aspect of coaching. Despite ALL of his many, many accomplishments in basketball he is still a novice as a coach.

At the end of the day is this a big issue? I hope not. But if Chris Mullin were my personal friend I would tell him the same thing I have posted on the boards. Unlike other coaches that have come and gone I am personally invested in Mullin doing well as I basically grew up watching him. I want him to succeed and I think every once in awhile grabbing the board and drawing up a play might help in that regard.
Maybe it is just me?

Quote from: Foad on April 29, 2016, 10:43:58 AM

Quote from: we are sju on April 29, 2016, 10:18:24 AM

Again at the end of the day I don't care and I am a Mullin guy no matter what. And if he had George Blaney or Mike Dunlap diagramming plays the optics would be better. Now this is just an observation from a guy with Mullin's poster still on the wall in his parents house. If things go badly imagine what people who don't care about Mullin will start to say. Personally I would like it if he looked more involved.

Okay fine, but I don't care what it looks like. When Barack Obama decides to murder US citizens with drone strikes, he doesn't draw up the flight plan on a white board. The people are just as dead. Warren Buffet doesn't sit around day trading in his pajamas. He's just as rich. Basketball is the only sport where the coaches jump up and down on the sidelines like epileptics. Baseball managers occasionally rub their chests. The best coach in FB history stands around in a hoodie mumbling and figuring out new ways to cheat and delegates offense, defense and special teams to his assistants. Somehow if a basketball coach doesn't jump and scream like a mental patient its a reflection on his competence. It might be the only occupation in the US outside of wrestling where that sort of demonstrativeness is countenanced. Personally I think it's designed to disguise the fact that there's very little a coach can do on the sidelines to influence the outcome of a game.

Quote

If we make the NIT and then start making tourney's no one will care and I don't either way. But if we struggle, I guarantee this starts to become an issue and with real people not just yahoos on message boards.

If we struggle it should become an issue. A huge issue. Because if this school cannot win in short order with this staff and these players they should disband the program, burn CA down and sow the ground with salt. But the carping you hear is from professional malcontents, many of whom supported the former regime and are still butt hurt over his well deserved dismissal.

I understand delegation and your examples have merit. But I have personally also used delegation to push off shit I did not want to be bothered doing
Again just my opinion but I would have liked Mullin to have rolled up his sleeves and jumped into every aspect of coaching. Despite ALL of his many, many accomplishments in basketball he is still a novice as a coach.

At the end of the day is this a big issue? I hope not. But if Chris Mullin were my personal friend I would tell him the same thing I have posted on the boards. Unlike other coaches that have come and gone I am personally invested in Mullin doing well as I basically grew up watching him. I want him to succeed and I think every once in awhile grabbing the board and drawing up a play might help in that regard.
Maybe it is just me?

Winning is the bottom line. If he rolls up his sleeves and diagrams all the plays and we loose it will not look good, if he delegates and he wins it will.  I'm optimistic, but truth be told , couldn't tell by last year whether Mullin could coach or not, This coming year will be more revealing.

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on April 29, 2016, 09:11:15 AM

First off this is not a Steve Lavin ad hominem attack thread, lets be mature here. 

LALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

Quote

Its a commentary of where we are now and where we need to be.

You have no idea where we were, no idea where are, and no idea how to get where we should be.

Quote

What I saw this season was St. Jean being the face of the in-game coaching.

 

Sorry, but you don't know little or nothing about basketball. Not your fault, you studied at the feet of Steve Lavin for five years. After that I'm surprised you can turn on your computer without breaking a bone. Here is someone who knows something about basketball explaining what coaching entails:

At times, Mullin sits in the huddle and directs his players, but he also has given St. Jean a prominent role in running practice and providing sideline instruction during games. That sometimes includes diagramming plays.

“Whatever we do, I tell him what I want written up, and he writes it up,” Mullin said.

“You do most of your preparation in practice. You can’t give these kids too much in a timeout. If you give them one thing and they remember it, you’re a genius.”

Mullin described the notion that Bird — and by extension himself — doesn’t know how to diagram a play as “comical,” and added that basketball really comes down to finding a way to put the ball in the basket.

“Larry would say, ‘Are you going to make a shot or what?’ That’s what it was. Period. Now, getting good looks, moving the ball, that’s the details you work on.

“To me, it’s like, Wow, they [media] really don’t know what happens in a basketball setting, do they? They think that a 30-second timeout is coaching. If you don’t know what you’re running and you’ve got to diagram it, you’re screwed.”

http://www.newsday.com/sports/college/college-basketball/st-john-s-coach-chris-mullin-weathers-the-storm-of-first-season-1.11542056


See, you're comical. It was in Newsday, it must be true.

<remainder hosed>

Am I arguing with a Kindergartner here because that is what it sounds like? For the millionth time this thread has NOTHING to do with Lavin so STOP bringing him into it. And then trying to discredit me by saying because I was a manager for the program under him I have no idea what I am talking about on anything that has to do with CURRENT St Johns basketball. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

For those that have common sense which I assume 99 percents of those here do, the idea simply is:
We have a boatload of talent coming in this year and next year. Lets hope they  play to the best of their potential. I just think with that talent we could use a solid Xs and Os veteran to make sure this 2-3 year project comes to fruition. Mullin is inexperienced and I do not deny his knowledge of the game. But at this point in the program we could use an experienced voice to continue the process. Mullin needs to learn just like other new coaches until its time for him to be the commanding presence like a Jay Wright or Mike Brey. Because if the talent cannot play together these next couple years we will be taking 2 steps back and flushed talent.  Let the talent reach its peak, thrive and attract more so we become the consistent contender again.  A veteran Xs and Os guy may help with that. 

For those that have common sense which I assume 99 percents of those here do

Very bold assumption