An Xs and Os Assistant

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TONYD3

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2016, 09:17:36 AM »
We don't need an x's and 0's maven. We need 4 coaches to contribute and coach basketball. The young guy is plenty impressive. It just looks like he could use some help. St. Jean seems better then advertised.

Foad

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2016, 09:28:57 AM »
We don't need an x's and 0's maven. We need 4 coaches to contribute and coach basketball. The young guy is plenty impressive. It just looks like he could use some help. St. Jean seems better then advertised.

Other than perhaps jumping up and down and scrunching up his face what has SJ done that is "plenty impressive"?

Foad

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2016, 09:32:12 AM »
Coaching wins games.  It's why we beat Syracuse with Hopkins and Boeheim took the same players to the final four.

Wasn't that an example of poor coaching losing a game? If it was good coaching producing a win we'd have beaten someone else. 

Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2016, 10:07:16 AM »
Coaching wins games.  It's why we beat Syracuse with Hopkins and Boeheim took the same players to the final four.

Wasn't that an example of poor coaching losing a game? If it was good coaching producing a win we'd have beaten someone else. 

It was poor coaching.  That was my point.  Right now we have poor game coaching and it cost us.  We need good coaching.

Foad

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2016, 10:25:25 AM »
Coaching wins games.  It's why we beat Syracuse with Hopkins and Boeheim took the same players to the final four.

Wasn't that an example of poor coaching losing a game? If it was good coaching producing a win we'd have beaten someone else. 

It was poor coaching.  That was my point.  Right now we have poor game coaching and it cost us.  We need good coaching.

I saw little or no evidence of poor coaching - there was no one to coach.

If Mullin is only capable of being poor at coaching they should fire him and bring in some who is not poor at coaching.

Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2016, 10:33:53 AM »
Coaching wins games.  It's why we beat Syracuse with Hopkins and Boeheim took the same players to the final four.

Wasn't that an example of poor coaching losing a game? If it was good coaching producing a win we'd have beaten someone else. 

It was poor coaching.  That was my point.  Right now we have poor game coaching and it cost us.  We need good coaching.

I saw little or no evidence of poor coaching - there was no one to coach.

If Mullin is only capable of being poor at coaching they should fire him and bring in some who is not poor at coaching.

Not to continue beating on the poor dead horse but last year would have been a perfect time for Mullin to be more hands on. No one was expecting much, there was no downside. Better the roster gets the more pressure will come.

Foad

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2016, 11:09:54 AM »
Coaching wins games.  It's why we beat Syracuse with Hopkins and Boeheim took the same players to the final four.

Wasn't that an example of poor coaching losing a game? If it was good coaching producing a win we'd have beaten someone else. 

It was poor coaching.  That was my point.  Right now we have poor game coaching and it cost us.  We need good coaching.

I saw little or no evidence of poor coaching - there was no one to coach.

If Mullin is only capable of being poor at coaching they should fire him and bring in some who is not poor at coaching.

Not to continue beating on the poor dead horse but last year would have been a perfect time for Mullin to be more hands on. No one was expecting much, there was no downside. Better the roster gets the more pressure will come.

More pressure than what? The NBA play offs? The Olympics? The Final Four? Or do you men more people on the internet wondering whether he can coach. Last year meant nothing. Next year will show whether he'll either succeed or fail. It'll be patently obvious to even the least observant fan. In the meantime all of this is akin to idly wondering whether Caravaggio needs a crayon expert to teach coloring.

Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2016, 11:22:02 AM »
Coaching wins games.  It's why we beat Syracuse with Hopkins and Boeheim took the same players to the final four.

Wasn't that an example of poor coaching losing a game? If it was good coaching producing a win we'd have beaten someone else. 

It was poor coaching.  That was my point.  Right now we have poor game coaching and it cost us.  We need good coaching.

I saw little or no evidence of poor coaching - there was no one to coach.

If Mullin is only capable of being poor at coaching they should fire him and bring in some who is not poor at coaching.

Not to continue beating on the poor dead horse but last year would have been a perfect time for Mullin to be more hands on. No one was expecting much, there was no downside. Better the roster gets the more pressure will come.

More pressure than what? The NBA play offs? The Olympics? The Final Four? Or do you men more people on the internet wondering whether he can coach. Last year meant nothing. Next year will show whether he'll either succeed or fail. It'll be patently obvious to even the least observant fan. In the meantime all of this is akin to idly wondering whether Caravaggio needs a crayon expert to teach coloring.

Walter Berry was the 2nd best player we ever had. I would have been just as happy if he was named coach for the same reason I was happy with Mullin. I really loved watching them play. Berry has the same coaching experience as Mullin. Now obviously Mullin has been around the game and was a way more cerebral player but again novice coach. I just think he did not take advantage of the opportunity he had last year to gain some experience with all aspects of coaching.

Bottom line is I think he went about last year the wrong way. This year they win 17 games no one will care. I won't care if we win 5 but I am honest about my Mullin blinders. Some might take this as criticism but I am really just being honest about what I personally felt.

Poison

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2016, 11:22:12 AM »
Coaching wins games.  It's why we beat Syracuse with Hopkins and Boeheim took the same players to the final four.

Wasn't that an example of poor coaching losing a game? If it was good coaching producing a win we'd have beaten someone else. 

It was poor coaching.  That was my point.  Right now we have poor game coaching and it cost us.  We need good coaching.

It doesn't matter who the coach is if you have zero ball handlers. Press us and it's over. Easy.

Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2016, 12:17:44 PM »
I find posts critical of Chris Mullin distasteful.

TONYD3

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2016, 12:29:52 PM »
We don't need an x's and 0's maven. We need 4 coaches to contribute and coach basketball. The young guy is plenty impressive. It just looks like he could use some help. St. Jean seems better then advertised.

Other than perhaps jumping up and down and scrunching up his face what has SJ done that is "plenty impressive"?
He seemed like he handled much of the in game coaching. That is impressive to me. I am aware that you don't think that making adjustments during the game, substituting players, and adjusting game strategy is important.

Foad

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2016, 12:42:10 PM »
He seemed like he handled much of the in game coaching. That is impressive to me. I am aware that you don't think that making adjustments during the game, substituting players, and adjusting game strategy is important.

I didn't say its not important: it's important at the margins. It's not important if all your players stink. Anyway, I don't believe that Saint Jean did those things and if he did there was nothing impressive about it, as we lost nearly every game. The one play I recall him drawing up, a last second play with Sima going to the basket, failed miserably. As did most of our plays. If he's responsible for how the team played last year they should fire him immediately.

Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2016, 09:06:52 PM »
To call this thread nutty is to completely misunderstand the point of it.

Good grief. No one is misunderstanding anything. This is not the Manhattan project. You're not Oppenheimer. People aren't  disagreeing with you because your deeply complex proposal was hard for them to comprehend. They're disagreeing with you because your half formed idea was completely lacking in merit. Lest I MISCONSTRUE!!! your important post, let me quote you: "Instead of spending the money on 2 top notch recruiters, would you guys have preferred one and a Dunlap level assistant to balance it out with St. Jean helping and learning."

And the answer is a resounding no, because that's nice personic. You want to bring in an X and O guy to help Saint Jean learn to be an X and O guy so her can help Mullin with Xs and Os. That is dumb on several levels. In the first place, talent wins college BB games, not some dope scribbling on a white board. So two ace recruiters is better than one. In the similar second place, coaching is over rated. Many college BB coaches are complete meatheads and unless you're a class A buffoon like Steve Lavin who doesn't even vaguely understand the sport you don't really need any help. Jim Boeheim and Bob Knight are so dumb they can barely tie their shoes and they're in the hall of fame. In the third place, there's no evidence that Mullin needs help: he's a BB genius who's succeeded at every level of the sport for half a century. And in the fourth place, if he did need help the person to get rid of would be Saint Jean, who's allegedly the X and O guy. Because there's no reason for SJ to be "spending the money" for him to learn on the job.

I think the GA proposal for St. Jean would have made more sense and having a hired Xs and Os guy would have been ideal. Should not pay for STJ to learn but can have him around.  Hopefully all works out next year, but if not they need to reconsider and Mullin should hire someone to help this talent go far for our program.  This would be different if Mullin came in after several years coaching experience than it is not an issue and can be flexible with assistants. As much as I hate Boeheim to call him a knucklehead is nonsense. Coach K has been a good coach for many years. Jay Wright and Mike Brey have been too.  Calipari has gotten alot of talent together but has found ways to get them to play together unlike say someone like the LSU coach who has no idea what the hell he was doing this year. There is more to the game than talent- the talent has to play together and have chemistry.

Mullin could very well use a big time Xs and Os assistant down the line if we do not see progress (hopefully we do). Heck, even someone at Whitesell's level. Several players on the team have told me that he was a decent coach and respected him during his time here and got alot out of his attention to fundamentals and style. Similar to Dunlap. And yes Dunlap has failed as head coach but maybe he is just best suited to be an assistant does not take away that he thrived as assistant.   

We all want  championship and contention someday yet we criticize for daring to help him along to reach the level of a great coach. Before coaches become great they had help and they learned early on in the process. Just because someone was a great player does not make them a great coach right away. I do think Mullin can become great because the knowledge is there, but lets not be nieve and think he is above having guidance at this early stage to get there.







Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2016, 09:28:44 PM »
GA - Graduate Assistant ???

You really think a young guy with an elite HS and college education, two years working for NBA team (in any capacity) and a father w/ NBA coaching credentials was going to come to St. John's for a GA spot that doesn't pay ?

Let this guy cut his teeth like everyone else did last season and see what he's made of.   He may surprise everyone.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 09:30:06 PM by RedStormNC »

Foad

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Re: An Xs and Os Assistant
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2016, 08:38:41 AM »
There is more to the game than talent- the talent has to play together and have chemistry.

Yes, of course there is more to the game than talent. If there weren't Marvin Barnes would have ended up in the hall of fame, rather than prison. And there is no question that a dreadful coach like Steve Lavin can have all the talent in the world and not know what to do with it and by virtue of his complete suckitudiosity end up making his players worse individually and collectively - like King Midas, except everything he touches turns to shit. There is however no coach in the world that can coach less talented players up far enough to win consistently against better players. There are not enough Xs and Os in the world. Even a basketball genius like Pete Carill only beat the big boys every once in a while. Meanwhile lunkheads like Jim Boeheim - who is trust me a certifiable imbecile - can win despite their intellectual deficiencies because they recruit the right sort of talent and put that talent in circumstances in which it can thrive. On an even playing field and absent exceptional circumstances - like at Agincourt - strategy matters only at the margins.