Amar Returns

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goredmen

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #100 on: May 12, 2016, 11:02:51 PM »
Why does everyone take it as gospel that Amar was forced out? Mullin, Slice and St. Jean would never say that directly to an insider, someone around the university, or a reporter.

You know better.  This type of chatter and exchange of information happens. 


The chatter happens, but this situation is as unreliable as who broke up with who in a relationship. A lot of implications are made and inferences are drawn. It's not as reliable as info on recruiting or other basketball matters. Can you picture Mullin or Slice telling someone "We asked him to transfer" or Amar saying "They made me leave"? 

Now we've got posters complaining the staff mishandled this when nobody knows how their conversation went down.

If you could have only one of the players for next year it would go:
1.Taser
2. Jones
3. Amar
We kept worst guy who also takes up a scholie for a potential extra year. No matter what "went down" , result was not good.
Jones stinks also. If jones scores 10 and the guy he is guarding scores 16, we are minus 6. Amar  for this year is fine. Amar for 2 more years taking up a scholarship is silly. We could or should have taken a chance on another 2/3 star player,  maybe that guy stinks. Maybe not. We know jones and Amar stink. Waving a towel and being a good teammate under certain circumstances can and should earn someone a scholarship. But that scholarship should not be guaranteed for 4 years and prevent a school from recruiting basketball players who can contribute to wining games.

In short spurts Jones can bring something that the rest of the team does not have. He made way more sense

Yeah but it wouldn't have made sense for Jones. He needs to go somewhere where he'd get significant minutes. He's another one where if he was getting more than 7-10 minutes a game for us we wouldn't be a .500 team

Jones would have been the best offensive front court option on the team. I want Sima and Yakwe to get as many minutes as possible this next year so I see the bright side in it, im really not upset with our frontcourt and am pleased with the roster as is, especially for 18&19. But to say Jones should or would only garner 7-10 minutes is foolish. We would be a better team if CJ were on it.

Jones was average (being generous) for the vast majority of the season. He had two nice games towards the end of the season that I guess makes people think he's good player. He's not. He's nowhere near a big east caliber player. If he's playing more than 7-10 minutes a game on a big east team, that team won't sniff .500.

Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #101 on: May 12, 2016, 11:26:12 PM »
Why does everyone take it as gospel that Amar was forced out? Mullin, Slice and St. Jean would never say that directly to an insider, someone around the university, or a reporter.

You know better.  This type of chatter and exchange of information happens. 


The chatter happens, but this situation is as unreliable as who broke up with who in a relationship. A lot of implications are made and inferences are drawn. It's not as reliable as info on recruiting or other basketball matters. Can you picture Mullin or Slice telling someone "We asked him to transfer" or Amar saying "They made me leave"? 

Now we've got posters complaining the staff mishandled this when nobody knows how their conversation went down.

If you could have only one of the players for next year it would go:
1.Taser
2. Jones
3. Amar
We kept worst guy who also takes up a scholie for a potential extra year. No matter what "went down" , result was not good.
Jones stinks also. If jones scores 10 and the guy he is guarding scores 16, we are minus 6. Amar  for this year is fine. Amar for 2 more years taking up a scholarship is silly. We could or should have taken a chance on another 2/3 star player,  maybe that guy stinks. Maybe not. We know jones and Amar stink. Waving a towel and being a good teammate under certain circumstances can and should earn someone a scholarship. But that scholarship should not be guaranteed for 4 years and prevent a school from recruiting basketball players who can contribute to wining games.

In short spurts Jones can bring something that the rest of the team does not have. He made way more sense

Yeah but it wouldn't have made sense for Jones. He needs to go somewhere where he'd get significant minutes. He's another one where if he was getting more than 7-10 minutes a game for us we wouldn't be a .500 team

Jones would have been the best offensive front court option on the team. I want Sima and Yakwe to get as many minutes as possible this next year so I see the bright side in it, im really not upset with our frontcourt and am pleased with the roster as is, especially for 18&19. But to say Jones should or would only garner 7-10 minutes is foolish. We would be a better team if CJ were on it.

Jones was average (being generous) for the vast majority of the season. He had two nice games towards the end of the season that I guess makes people think he's good player. He's not. He's nowhere near a big east caliber player. If he's playing more than 7-10 minutes a game on a big east team, that team won't sniff .500.

Its the same frontcourt. This team that we have is gonna sniff .500 and if CJ was on the team he would most certainly warrant 7-10 minutes.

pts rebs asts of all our returning players plus jones in the last 4 games of the season. Where you know, you might figure would be the most accurate representation of where a player is.

 6   pts    1 rb   .75 asts 
8.5 pts 2.3 rb  4.5 asts
7.8 pts 3.3 rb  .75 asts
 5   pts 3.3 rb   0 asts
4.5 pts 1.3 rb   .25 asts
17.5 pts 6.8 rb  1.5 asts

And which one is not good enough to help this team sniff .500? Go ahead and look at the season stats too.
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Poison

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #102 on: May 12, 2016, 11:42:06 PM »
Jones has been for 4 years, and he's clueless on d. Amar has been here for 2, and he's also clueless on d. We're comparing an upperclassman to an underclassmen. Amar still has time to learn how to play.

boo3

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #103 on: May 13, 2016, 12:00:35 AM »
 I think Mussini has a lot to do with Amar returning..  Obviously those two have a tight relationship and Amar was huge in helping Muss get adapted..  Mussini would be lost without Amar.. I think that friendship had a lot to do with change of heart.

goredmen

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #104 on: May 13, 2016, 12:02:08 AM »
Why does everyone take it as gospel that Amar was forced out? Mullin, Slice and St. Jean would never say that directly to an insider, someone around the university, or a reporter.

You know better.  This type of chatter and exchange of information happens. 


The chatter happens, but this situation is as unreliable as who broke up with who in a relationship. A lot of implications are made and inferences are drawn. It's not as reliable as info on recruiting or other basketball matters. Can you picture Mullin or Slice telling someone "We asked him to transfer" or Amar saying "They made me leave"? 

Now we've got posters complaining the staff mishandled this when nobody knows how their conversation went down.

If you could have only one of the players for next year it would go:
1.Taser
2. Jones
3. Amar
We kept worst guy who also takes up a scholie for a potential extra year. No matter what "went down" , result was not good.
Jones stinks also. If jones scores 10 and the guy he is guarding scores 16, we are minus 6. Amar  for this year is fine. Amar for 2 more years taking up a scholarship is silly. We could or should have taken a chance on another 2/3 star player,  maybe that guy stinks. Maybe not. We know jones and Amar stink. Waving a towel and being a good teammate under certain circumstances can and should earn someone a scholarship. But that scholarship should not be guaranteed for 4 years and prevent a school from recruiting basketball players who can contribute to wining games.

In short spurts Jones can bring something that the rest of the team does not have. He made way more sense

Yeah but it wouldn't have made sense for Jones. He needs to go somewhere where he'd get significant minutes. He's another one where if he was getting more than 7-10 minutes a game for us we wouldn't be a .500 team

Jones would have been the best offensive front court option on the team. I want Sima and Yakwe to get as many minutes as possible this next year so I see the bright side in it, im really not upset with our frontcourt and am pleased with the roster as is, especially for 18&19. But to say Jones should or would only garner 7-10 minutes is foolish. We would be a better team if CJ were on it.

Jones was average (being generous) for the vast majority of the season. He had two nice games towards the end of the season that I guess makes people think he's good player. He's not. He's nowhere near a big east caliber player. If he's playing more than 7-10 minutes a game on a big east team, that team won't sniff .500.

Its the same frontcourt. This team that we have is gonna sniff .500 and if CJ was on the team he would most certainly warrant 7-10 minutes.

pts rebs asts of all our returning players plus jones in the last 4 games of the season. Where you know, you might figure would be the most accurate representation of where a player is.

 6   pts    1 rb   .75 asts 
8.5 pts 2.3 rb  4.5 asts
7.8 pts 3.3 rb  .75 asts
 5   pts 3.3 rb   0 asts
4.5 pts 1.3 rb   .25 asts
17.5 pts 6.8 rb  1.5 asts

And which one is not good enough to help this team sniff .500? Go ahead and look at the season stats too.

Cmon, you're better than that. It's the same names in the frontcourt, but Yakwe and Sima should be completely different players going from their freshmen to sophomore seasons. Yakwe and Sima will still be far from finished products but they should be miles ahead of where they were last year

Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #105 on: May 13, 2016, 07:14:00 AM »
Why does everyone take it as gospel that Amar was forced out? Mullin, Slice and St. Jean would never say that directly to an insider, someone around the university, or a reporter.

You know better.  This type of chatter and exchange of information happens. 


The chatter happens, but this situation is as unreliable as who broke up with who in a relationship. A lot of implications are made and inferences are drawn. It's not as reliable as info on recruiting or other basketball matters. Can you picture Mullin or Slice telling someone "We asked him to transfer" or Amar saying "They made me leave"? 

Now we've got posters complaining the staff mishandled this when nobody knows how their conversation went down.

If you could have only one of the players for next year it would go:
1.Taser
2. Jones
3. Amar
We kept worst guy who also takes up a scholie for a potential extra year. No matter what "went down" , result was not good.
Jones stinks also. If jones scores 10 and the guy he is guarding scores 16, we are minus 6. Amar  for this year is fine. Amar for 2 more years taking up a scholarship is silly. We could or should have taken a chance on another 2/3 star player,  maybe that guy stinks. Maybe not. We know jones and Amar stink. Waving a towel and being a good teammate under certain circumstances can and should earn someone a scholarship. But that scholarship should not be guaranteed for 4 years and prevent a school from recruiting basketball players who can contribute to wining games.

In short spurts Jones can bring something that the rest of the team does not have. He made way more sense

Yeah but it wouldn't have made sense for Jones. He needs to go somewhere where he'd get significant minutes. He's another one where if he was getting more than 7-10 minutes a game for us we wouldn't be a .500 team

Jones would have been the best offensive front court option on the team. I want Sima and Yakwe to get as many minutes as possible this next year so I see the bright side in it, im really not upset with our frontcourt and am pleased with the roster as is, especially for 18&19. But to say Jones should or would only garner 7-10 minutes is foolish. We would be a better team if CJ were on it.

Jones was average (being generous) for the vast majority of the season. He had two nice games towards the end of the season that I guess makes people think he's good player. He's not. He's nowhere near a big east caliber player. If he's playing more than 7-10 minutes a game on a big east team, that team won't sniff .500.

Its the same frontcourt. This team that we have is gonna sniff .500 and if CJ was on the team he would most certainly warrant 7-10 minutes.

pts rebs asts of all our returning players plus jones in the last 4 games of the season. Where you know, you might figure would be the most accurate representation of where a player is.

 6   pts    1 rb   .75 asts 
8.5 pts 2.3 rb  4.5 asts
7.8 pts 3.3 rb  .75 asts
 5   pts 3.3 rb   0 asts
4.5 pts 1.3 rb   .25 asts
17.5 pts 6.8 rb  1.5 asts

And which one is not good enough to help this team sniff .500? Go ahead and look at the season stats too.

Cmon, you're better than that. It's the same names in the frontcourt, but Yakwe and Sima should be completely different players going from their freshmen to sophomore seasons. Yakwe and Sima will still be far from finished products but they should be miles ahead of where they were last year

That wasnt the discussion
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #106 on: May 13, 2016, 07:21:29 AM »
Jones has been for 4 years, and he's clueless on d. Amar has been here for 2, and he's also clueless on d. We're comparing an upperclassman to an underclassmen. Amar still has time to learn how to play.

We have two guys in Sima and Yakwe who will be All BE defensive type players next year or shortly there after. We could use a little more offense from 15ft in is all im saying.
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Foad

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #107 on: May 13, 2016, 07:38:14 AM »
Dom Pointer was nowhere near a BE caliber player as a junior and all BE as a senior. He averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds a game and shot .40 percent from the floor as a junior. As a senior he averaged 13 and 7 and shot 50 percent from the floor. How many of you NBA scouts predicted that? Now a kid who averaged 8 and 5 and shot nearly 50 percent from the floor as a junior, including half a dozen double doubles, including a thirty point game against 2 front court guys who are going to play in the NBA, a kid who showed remarkable improvement over his previous years in which he had limited playing time, you're all pronouncing like Moses come down the mountain that he stinks and was a bust. I don't know how anyone who has watched college basketball for any length of time can not have seen what happens to players their senior years or how important upperclassmen are to success on the court. We've made the tournament twice in ten years both times with rosters comprised completely of seniors, which teams made quantum leaps forward between their junior and senior years. But no by all means let's sign a 2 star freshman, maybe he'll turn out to be a diamond in the rough. I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but clearly you can.

Foad

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #108 on: May 13, 2016, 07:40:06 AM »
Mussini would be lost without Amar

He was lost with him.

Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #109 on: May 13, 2016, 09:36:41 AM »
Mussini would be lost without Amar

He was lost with him.

This Amar vs Jones argument is basically the Mussini is good vs Mussini stinks argument.
There is really no way to justify Amar being better than Jones other than Amar is white.

goredmen

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2016, 11:18:26 AM »
Dom Pointer was nowhere near a BE caliber player as a junior and all BE as a senior. He averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds a game and shot .40 percent from the floor as a junior. As a senior he averaged 13 and 7 and shot 50 percent from the floor. How many of you NBA scouts predicted that? Now a kid who averaged 8 and 5 and shot nearly 50 percent from the floor as a junior, including half a dozen double doubles, including a thirty point game against 2 front court guys who are going to play in the NBA, a kid who showed remarkable improvement over his previous years in which he had limited playing time, you're all pronouncing like Moses come down the mountain that he stinks and was a bust. I don't know how anyone who has watched college basketball for any length of time can not have seen what happens to players their senior years or how important upperclassmen are to success on the court. We've made the tournament twice in ten years both times with rosters comprised completely of seniors, which teams made quantum leaps forward between their junior and senior years. But no by all means let's sign a 2 star freshman, maybe he'll turn out to be a diamond in the rough. I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but clearly you can.

If the player is no good, it doesn't matter if they are seniors or not. See: Johnson, Durand and Mvouika, Ron.

Man, it's amazing how a guy that was extremely average as a junior for 95% of the season on a 1-17 team and has proven he can't play defense or pass plus turns the ball over an obscene amount for his position gets so much love

TONYD3

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #111 on: May 13, 2016, 11:18:33 AM »
Dom Pointer was nowhere near a BE caliber player as a junior and all BE as a senior. He averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds a game and shot .40 percent from the floor as a junior. As a senior he averaged 13 and 7 and shot 50 percent from the floor. How many of you NBA scouts predicted that? Now a kid who averaged 8 and 5 and shot nearly 50 percent from the floor as a junior, including half a dozen double doubles, including a thirty point game against 2 front court guys who are going to play in the NBA, a kid who showed remarkable improvement over his previous years in which he had limited playing time, you're all pronouncing like Moses come down the mountain that he stinks and was a bust. I don't know how anyone who has watched college basketball for any length of time can not have seen what happens to players their senior years or how important upperclassmen are to success on the court. We've made the tournament twice in ten years both times with rosters comprised completely of seniors, which teams made quantum leaps forward between their junior and senior years. But no by all means let's sign a 2 star freshman, maybe he'll turn out to be a diamond in the rough. I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but clearly you can.
Dom Pointer was almost a 5 star player. Many on here felt he was overrated, including myself. I can't remember anyone wishing he would transfer. Even without an offensive game he played defense and played with intensity. I don't have the memory of Poison, but i remember DJ and Paris being good promising players by sophomore years.
Some of you will remember the Syracuse game as a huge accomplishment. It was fun beating them. But if any game gets asterisk it is that one. We played great under a perfect storm. It was a fun 2 hours, but it gave little indication of what would happen in the future.
I brought up signing a 2/3 freshman. Some work out, DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and even Sean Evans to an extent. I would take a Sean Evans type player any day over Amar and Jones. The kid had flaws but competed. This team could use a Geno Lawrence, he wasn't great but he played defense and would serve a role as a back up PG. I mentioned Joey Delerosa, I am aware he is to old. But a player like him could be useful at times. Even though he was terrible.
 

Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #112 on: May 13, 2016, 11:28:52 AM »
Dom Pointer was nowhere near a BE caliber player as a junior and all BE as a senior. He averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds a game and shot .40 percent from the floor as a junior. As a senior he averaged 13 and 7 and shot 50 percent from the floor. How many of you NBA scouts predicted that? Now a kid who averaged 8 and 5 and shot nearly 50 percent from the floor as a junior, including half a dozen double doubles, including a thirty point game against 2 front court guys who are going to play in the NBA, a kid who showed remarkable improvement over his previous years in which he had limited playing time, you're all pronouncing like Moses come down the mountain that he stinks and was a bust. I don't know how anyone who has watched college basketball for any length of time can not have seen what happens to players their senior years or how important upperclassmen are to success on the court. We've made the tournament twice in ten years both times with rosters comprised completely of seniors, which teams made quantum leaps forward between their junior and senior years. But no by all means let's sign a 2 star freshman, maybe he'll turn out to be a diamond in the rough. I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but clearly you can.

If the player is no good, it doesn't matter if they are seniors or not. See: Johnson, Durand and Mvouika, Ron.

Man, it's amazing how a guy that was extremely average as a junior for 95% of the season on a 1-17 team and has proven he can't play defense or pass plus turns the ball over an obscene amount for his position gets so much love

In limited mins Jones would bring some value to the team. If he was let go for an upgrade no one would complain. That didn't happen. And if there was a choice as some "in the know" posters have suggested, there was really no way you can justify Amar vs Jones. If German kid can play at all he renders Amar obsolete.

Poison

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #113 on: May 13, 2016, 11:41:17 AM »
Dom Pointer was nowhere near a BE caliber player as a junior and all BE as a senior. He averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds a game and shot .40 percent from the floor as a junior. As a senior he averaged 13 and 7 and shot 50 percent from the floor. How many of you NBA scouts predicted that? Now a kid who averaged 8 and 5 and shot nearly 50 percent from the floor as a junior, including half a dozen double doubles, including a thirty point game against 2 front court guys who are going to play in the NBA, a kid who showed remarkable improvement over his previous years in which he had limited playing time, you're all pronouncing like Moses come down the mountain that he stinks and was a bust. I don't know how anyone who has watched college basketball for any length of time can not have seen what happens to players their senior years or how important upperclassmen are to success on the court. We've made the tournament twice in ten years both times with rosters comprised completely of seniors, which teams made quantum leaps forward between their junior and senior years. But no by all means let's sign a 2 star freshman, maybe he'll turn out to be a diamond in the rough. I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but clearly you can.

If the player is no good, it doesn't matter if they are seniors or not. See: Johnson, Durand and Mvouika, Ron.

Man, it's amazing how a guy that was extremely average as a junior for 95% of the season on a 1-17 team and has proven he can't play defense or pass plus turns the ball over an obscene amount for his position gets so much love

I think we've all been guilty of assuming that a poorly performing underclassmen could never turn into a valuable part of the team, but we'd be ignoring a great deal of our own history if didn't acknowledge that seniors usually play well. Even the guys who didn't play well at all up until then.

Tyshawn Edmonson became a player who was eventually scouted by NBA teams. Cedric Jackson actually became an NBA player. David Cain was a total bust until he became one of the top point guards in the BE and nationally, too. Donald Emanuel was every bit as bad as Amar was last year during his sophomore season. That dude would commit fouls instantly, and anywhere.

A few years ago I said that Quincy Robetts should transfer because expected the incoming freshman to be ready from day one to play, and play well. Out of our awesome ten player class, only 2 guys were ready to play, and both Harkless and Harrison were far from a guarantee every time out. Roberts would have really helped that team. He showed only a small glimpse of what he could do against Notre Dame, and basically got worked in just about every other game when we had him running the point. But he got better. Much better.

Like I said above, the staff needs to figure out how to coach him up.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 04:08:49 PM by Poison »

goredmen

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #114 on: May 13, 2016, 11:45:34 AM »
Dom Pointer was nowhere near a BE caliber player as a junior and all BE as a senior. He averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds a game and shot .40 percent from the floor as a junior. As a senior he averaged 13 and 7 and shot 50 percent from the floor. How many of you NBA scouts predicted that? Now a kid who averaged 8 and 5 and shot nearly 50 percent from the floor as a junior, including half a dozen double doubles, including a thirty point game against 2 front court guys who are going to play in the NBA, a kid who showed remarkable improvement over his previous years in which he had limited playing time, you're all pronouncing like Moses come down the mountain that he stinks and was a bust. I don't know how anyone who has watched college basketball for any length of time can not have seen what happens to players their senior years or how important upperclassmen are to success on the court. We've made the tournament twice in ten years both times with rosters comprised completely of seniors, which teams made quantum leaps forward between their junior and senior years. But no by all means let's sign a 2 star freshman, maybe he'll turn out to be a diamond in the rough. I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but clearly you can.

If the player is no good, it doesn't matter if they are seniors or not. See: Johnson, Durand and Mvouika, Ron.

Man, it's amazing how a guy that was extremely average as a junior for 95% of the season on a 1-17 team and has proven he can't play defense or pass plus turns the ball over an obscene amount for his position gets so much love

In limited mins Jones would bring some value to the team. If he was let go for an upgrade no one would complain. That didn't happen. And if there was a choice as some "in the know" posters have suggested, there was really no way you can justify Amar vs Jones. If German kid can play at all he renders Amar obsolete.

Agree, I don't get the Amar thing either other than that he's a great teammate

QuanMan

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #115 on: May 13, 2016, 12:00:03 PM »
Only a couple years separating the two, who has more BE and regular season wins, the young 2014-15 Seton Hall Pirates (16-15, 6-12) or this roster? I'm going w the Johnnies.
Section 3
Section 116

Foad

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #116 on: May 13, 2016, 12:22:08 PM »
I think we've all been guilty of assuming that a poorly performing underclassmen could never turn into a valuable part of the team, but we'd be ignoring a great deal of our own history if didn't acknowledge that seniors usually play well. Even the guys who didn't play well at all up until then.

Tyshawn Edmonson became a player who was eventually scouted by NBA teams. Cedric Jackson actually became an NBA player. David Cain was a total bust until he became one of the top point guards in the BE and nationally, too. Donald Emanuel was every bit as bad as Amar was last year during his sophomore season. That dude would commit fouls instantly, and anywhere.

A few years ago I said that Quincy Robetts should transfer because expected the incoming freshman to be ready from day one to play, and play well. Out of our awesome ten player class, only 2 guys were ready to play, and both Harkless and Harrison were far from a guarantee every time out. Robetts would have really helped that team. He showed only a small glimpse of what he could do against Notre Dame, and basically got worked in just about every other game when we had him running the point. But he got better. Much better.

Exactly this, but even more than this. It's not just players like Cain and Pointer who made quantum leaps their senior years, its players whose natural progression led them to have superior senior years because their cumulative education and experience made them better versions of the themselves and better than younger less experienced players on other teams. Louie made the hall of fame playing upperclassmen pretty much exclusively and even playing upperclassmen over more talented underclassmen. His success is not a coincidence. It's not a coincidence that the only times SJU has made the tournament in recent memory is with boatloads of experience. And it is not only on the court that experience matters - continuity in the program allows underclassmen the opportunity to learn off court skills from upperclassmen that they might otherwise have to learn by experience or trial and error: going to class, using the weight room, staying after practice to shoot more. This isn't Kentucky where we're going to reload every year and we can afford to throw every kid who doesn't produce immediately over the side. 

Foad

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #117 on: May 13, 2016, 12:33:48 PM »
Mussini would be lost without Amar

He was lost with him.

This Amar vs Jones argument is basically the Mussini is good vs Mussini stinks argument.
There is really no way to justify Amar being better than Jones other than Amar is white.

This doesn't set my spidey sense tingling the way the other discussion does, because there's rational arguments on both sides. There's no rational argument in Mussini's favor except that he's young and a foreigner, because on the court he stunk on both ends of the floor. Both AA and CJ showed flashes of talent last year. AA is younger, but his skill set doesn't fit because he's the German redux. Jones skills are a better fit but his minutes eat into the minutes of Sima and Yawke, who are the future. On the other hand both Sima and Yawke are foul prone and Sima was a shell of himself after his injury. Certainly there's no harm in having a PF in the Ron Stewart mold around for insurance. What I don't get is the idea that we don't need either of them, or anyone. I don't expect anything from the freshmen, JUCOs are always a question mark and the returnees weren't world beaters. We need all the help we can get.

TONYD3

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #118 on: May 13, 2016, 12:35:37 PM »
I think we've all been guilty of assuming that a poorly performing underclassmen could never turn into a valuable part of the team, but we'd be ignoring a great deal of our own history if didn't acknowledge that seniors usually play well. Even the guys who didn't play well at all up until then.

Tyshawn Edmonson became a player who was eventually scouted by NBA teams. Cedric Jackson actually became an NBA player. David Cain was a total bust until he became one of the top point guards in the BE and nationally, too. Donald Emanuel was every bit as bad as Amar was last year during his sophomore season. That dude would commit fouls instantly, and anywhere.

A few years ago I said that Quincy Robetts should transfer because expected the incoming freshman to be ready from day one to play, and play well. Out of our awesome ten player class, only 2 guys were ready to play, and both Harkless and Harrison were far from a guarantee every time out. Robetts would have really helped that team. He showed only a small glimpse of what he could do against Notre Dame, and basically got worked in just about every other game when we had him running the point. But he got better. Much better.

Exactly this, but even more than this. It's not just players like Cain and Pointer who made quantum leaps their senior years, its players whose natural progression led them to have superior senior years because their cumulative education and experience made them better versions of the themselves and better than younger less experienced players on other teams. Louie made the hall of fame playing upperclassmen pretty much exclusively and even playing upperclassmen over more talented underclassmen. His success is not a coincidence. It's not a coincidence that the only times SJU has made the tournament in recent memory is with boatloads of experience. And it is not only on the court that experience matters - continuity in the program allows underclassmen the opportunity to learn off court skills from upperclassmen that they might otherwise have to learn by experience or trial and error: going to class, using the weight room, staying after practice to shoot more. This isn't Kentucky where we're going to reload every year and we can afford to throw every kid who doesn't produce immediately over the side. 

Good arguments. I hope you guys are right .

paultzman

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Re: Amar Returns
« Reply #119 on: May 13, 2016, 12:36:15 PM »
I think we've all been guilty of assuming that a poorly performing underclassmen could never turn into a valuable part of the team, but we'd be ignoring a great deal of our own history if didn't acknowledge that seniors usually play well. Even the guys who didn't play well at all up until then.

Tyshawn Edmonson became a player who was eventually scouted by NBA teams. Cedric Jackson actually became an NBA player. David Cain was a total bust until he became one of the top point guards in the BE and nationally, too. Donald Emanuel was every bit as bad as Amar was last year during his sophomore season. That dude would commit fouls instantly, and anywhere.

A few years ago I said that Quincy Robetts should transfer because expected the incoming freshman to be ready from day one to play, and play well. Out of our awesome ten player class, only 2 guys were ready to play, and both Harkless and Harrison were far from a guarantee every time out. Robetts would have really helped that team. He showed only a small glimpse of what he could do against Notre Dame, and basically got worked in just about every other game when we had him running the point. But he got better. Much better.

Exactly this, but even more than this. It's not just players like Cain and Pointer who made quantum leaps their senior years, its players whose natural progression led them to have superior senior years because their cumulative education and experience made them better versions of the themselves and better than younger less experienced players on other teams. Louie made the hall of fame playing upperclassmen pretty much exclusively and even playing upperclassmen over more talented underclassmen. His success is not a coincidence. It's not a coincidence that the only times SJU has made the tournament in recent memory is with boatloads of experience. And it is not only on the court that experience matters - continuity in the program allows underclassmen the opportunity to learn off court skills from upperclassmen that they might otherwise have to learn by experience or trial and error: going to class, using the weight room, staying after practice to shoot more. This isn't Kentucky where we're going to reload every year and we can afford to throw every kid who doesn't produce immediately over the side. 


+1

Experience is so often undervalued.