Zach Brown - C - Miami, FL

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 09:07:24 AM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 10, 2017, 01:57:01 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 09, 2017, 11:54:36 PM

Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...

They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.

It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.

The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.

From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too

I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program.  Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent.  Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so. 

Mullin is doing the same as Lavin.  It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on.  The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer.  They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread. 

Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.

Rysheed Jordan.

Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.

Quote from: Dave on January 10, 2017, 09:19:02 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 09:07:24 AM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 10, 2017, 01:57:01 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 09, 2017, 11:54:36 PM

Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...

They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.

It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.

The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.

From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too

I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program.  Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent.  Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so. 

Mullin is doing the same as Lavin.  It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on.  The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer.  They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread. 

Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.

Rysheed Jordan.

Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.

Of course Jordan was a question mark. Why don't you think Villanova recruited him in their own backyard? Lavin wasn't fired because of Jordan.

Point is you got to take risks as a coach when coaching a program that has not been good. This staff has taken some risks but has had a backup plan and a backup plan for that. I respect that.

Everyone is crying for a big yet in same breathe are complaining about a guy with pro potential flaking out before he steps on campus.

You could argue btw Jordan was worse than Brown. Jordan was under staff's watch when nonsense was occurring. Staff can't be responsible for kid still in HS making bad decisions.

Quote from: Dave on January 10, 2017, 09:19:02 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 09:07:24 AM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 10, 2017, 01:57:01 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 09, 2017, 11:54:36 PM

Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...

They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.

It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.

The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.

From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too

I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program.  Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent.  Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so. 

Mullin is doing the same as Lavin.  It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on.  The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer.  They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread. 

Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.

Rysheed Jordan.

Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens? If not, you proved why some of our coaches need to take chances.

Alan Iverson went to prison before Gtown. Caron Butler had a rap sheet
before Uconn and turned into a great and very charitable person.

If the priority is recruiting good kids and not good basketball players we might as well bring Norm back

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?

To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 09:24:00 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 10, 2017, 09:19:02 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 09:07:24 AM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 10, 2017, 01:57:01 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 09, 2017, 11:54:36 PM

Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...

They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.

It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.

The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.

From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too

I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program.  Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent.  Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so. 

Mullin is doing the same as Lavin.  It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on.  The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer.  They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread. 

Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.

Rysheed Jordan.

Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens? If not, you proved why some of our coaches need to take chances.

Alan Iverson went to prison before Gtown. Caron Butler had a rap sheet
before Uconn and turned into a great and very charitable person.

My point isn't that we shouldn't take these chances at all, but that we should be objective when criticizing Lavin. Lavin didn't recruit kids with records. Jordan got into real trouble after he left. IMO, you take a chance on a kid like Brown knowing full well that he may never end up here, but knowing that possibility, you should also be recruiting well adjusted, hard working big men, too. The fact that Brown is the only big committed to coming here makes his recruitment even riskier. He should be the icing on the cake. Not the prize of the class.

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2017, 10:31:22 AM

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?

To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.

If Charles Manson was a 6-7 forward who could get 15-8 I 'd recruit him. Just win baby!
College athletics is a joke. Basically NBA minor leagues now but worth Billions in revenue
Even Ferret face is taking one and dones now took forever to kick a serial sexual abuser off the team and is ok with a serial tripper.

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2017, 10:31:22 AM

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?

To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.

Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.

Quote from: Foad on January 10, 2017, 11:25:23 AM

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2017, 10:31:22 AM

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?

To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.

Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.

Wow, I agreed with Bluto this week and now Poison.
If Norm could have gotten bad kids he would have taken them. He took what he could.

Quote from: Foad on January 10, 2017, 11:25:23 AM

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2017, 10:31:22 AM

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?

To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.

Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.

What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?

Even Ferret face is taking one and dones now took forever to kick a serial sexual abuser off the team and is ok with a serial tripper.

He suspends the kid indefinitely, losses the next game, then re-instates him. So his indefinite suspension was 1 game. What a fn joke rat face is, 7 McDonald All Americans isn't enough to win. There is no morality in college basketball, there are just coaches who are better at pretending there is. 

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2017, 11:39:43 AM

Even Ferret face is taking one and dones now took forever to kick a serial sexual abuser off the team and is ok with a serial tripper.

He suspends the kid indefinitely, losses the next game, then re-instates him. So his indefinite suspension was 1 game. What a fn joke rat face is, 7 McDonald All Americans isn't enough to win. There is no morality in college basketball, there are just coaches who are better at pretending there is. 

Exactly, and it is not just that they pretend but writers and ESPN kiss their ass.
Rat face scolded the kid that beat them in tourney last year for not acting properly but it is ok to have a kid keep tripping other guys.
Can't wait for him to vilify the kid that finally caves in Allen's face

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2017, 10:31:22 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 09:24:00 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 10, 2017, 09:19:02 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 09:07:24 AM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 10, 2017, 01:57:01 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 09, 2017, 11:54:36 PM

Let me tell you guys a story a former DePaul assistant told me...

They were trying to up the talent and they recruited this prop 48 kid (old term for partial qualifier). Really talented but had some baggage. They stuck with him because the assistant convinced head coach but the kid got in trouble again and never made it.

It was news and DePaul being Catholic school the AD got involved.

The next year a different assistant wanted to go after another prop 48 kid. Swore up and down the kid was a pro and would change the program. The kid was ready to commit. Was on campus waiting to sign but school said can't run the risk of another prop 48 kid. So they had to tell D Wade to take a hike bc school didnt want to take the risk.

From Pelle to Brown I'd take that risk over and over again. Obviously have a backup plan too

I use to tell folks Lavin went after folks like Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett because they were talented, and he wanted to immediately jumpstart the program.  Some people don't realize how tough a job St. John's is although we can still garner decent talent.  Several folks wanted to chastise him for doing so. 

Mullin is doing the same as Lavin.  It's worth the risk, and if it doesn't work out, then you (of, course) move on.  The staff is now on Walker, and I'm sure they'll scour the JUCO ranks or 5th year transfer.  They also better learn how to do another thing or two, but that's for another thread. 

Mullin's staff recruited an actual criminal. Lavin recruited some lazy kids. What Pelle did was on Pelle. What Mullin did was on him.

Rysheed Jordan.

Except Jordan wasn't a known criminal when Lavin recruited him. BIG difference. Mullin's staff has questionable judgement. That is one of the reasons why Lavin was fired if not the main reason. We haven't cleaned up our character w Mullin. That's my only point.

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens? If not, you proved why some of our coaches need to take chances.

Alan Iverson went to prison before Gtown. Caron Butler had a rap sheet
before Uconn and turned into a great and very charitable person.

My point isn't that we shouldn't take these chances at all, but that we should be objective when criticizing Lavin. Lavin didn't recruit kids with records. Jordan got into real trouble after he left. IMO, you take a chance on a kid like Brown knowing full well that he may never end up here, but knowing that possibility, you should also be recruiting well adjusted, hard working big men, too. The fact that Brown is the only big committed to coming here makes his recruitment even riskier. He should be the icing on the cake. Not the prize of the class.

Lavin took too many chances. Poor character kids, mixed in w academic question  marks coupled w going after high quality recruits w no backup plans. Pelle, ADR, CO, Thompson, , Jordan . Plus ADR and Thompson weren't ruled ineligible until after the school year started. Putting all his eggs in the Brisque, Diallo basket. Not a recipe for success. W Brown you are only talking about one player. But I will admit he was a big need. The silver lining is its early Jan. And not Sept. before the season starts.

When an incident happens to an sju student athlete then it is a discussion to have.

any chance this kid makes it to campus?  seems like a real talent, taking some money from a store isn't good, but he hasn't been convicted of anything and even if he is convicted/pleads to some crime, it's pretty minor.  his history doesn't seems like something that would put any other students in danger (unless I'm missing something) so should still try to get him here and on the court because this team needs a big asap.

any chance this kid makes it to campus?  seems like a real talent, taking some money from a store isn't good, but he hasn't been convicted of anything and even if he is convicted/pleads to some crime, it's pretty minor.  his history doesn't seems like something that would put any other students in danger (unless I'm missing something) so should still try to get him here and on the court because this team needs a big asap.

Until he starts stealing from teammates ala who was it, James Felton?

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 11:39:59 AM

Quote from: Foad on January 10, 2017, 11:25:23 AM

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2017, 10:31:22 AM

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?

To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.

Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.

What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?

When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.

Quote from: Foad on January 10, 2017, 12:24:43 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2017, 11:39:59 AM

Quote from: Foad on January 10, 2017, 11:25:23 AM

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2017, 10:31:22 AM

Okay, would you be fine with a slow 5 year rebuild while the staff only takes good students and citizens?

To be fair that was Norm's approach and he was a huge fan.

Norm's second class had a player guilty of the exact same crime that Zack Brown was arrested for. Yet, Aaron Spears was given a second chance by a guy who only recruits "good" kids. Let's be real, Norm took what he could get. Lance Stephenson's high school behavior wasn't the reason he didn't play for us. Clearly, Norm was.

What's a better outcome? Norm giving Aaron Spears a second chance and Spears rehabilitating himself or Rysheed Jordan ending up in prison for attempted murder after two years of Steve Lavin's mentoring?

When Lavin recruited Jordan there were perhaps some red flags, but the kid hadn't done anything wrong at the time. There wasn't a need for a second chance. He went down a dark path, but that has nothing to do with Steve Lavin, and everything to do with Rysheed Jordan.

To be fair, the fact that a 5 star player was only being actively recruited by a couple of schools means that there was more than just "perhaps some red flags". Everybody, including Lavin, knew there were huge question marks with him.  That said, I still think Lavin did the right thing by taking that gamble

a kid like this 1s poison, let him go