Malik Ellison

M.E. telegraphs his move, and starts it to far from the hoop. Gets pass off when in trouble and shows that coming also. Those moves are big trouble for a guard. When he loses those habits maybe he can start to develop some guard skills.

I'd have to watch film to see if this is true. I can't recall him from memory telegraphing especially far from the hoop. I do think he forced things early in the season which is what I think is drawing some comparisons to DJ as a freshman.

DJ as a freshman got sucked in too deep on his drives instead of pulling up. I think the development curve can be similar not their games.

Quote from: jr49 on September 20, 2016, 02:55:43 PM

M.E. telegraphs his move, and starts it to far from the hoop. Gets pass off when in trouble and shows that coming also. Those moves are big trouble for a guard. When he loses those habits maybe he can start to develop some guard skills.

I'd have to watch film to see if this is true. I can't recall him from memory telegraphing especially far from the hoop. I do think he forced things early in the season which is what I think is drawing some comparisons to DJ as a freshman.

DJ as a freshman got sucked in too deep on his drives instead of pulling up. I think the development curve can be similar not their games.

At that time DJ couldn't hit shots like that. He hit a few threes now and then. He missed a lot more. He just wasn't a good shooter.  I think people are comparing a freshman Malik Ellison to an upperclassman version of DJ Kennedy. Neither player knew what to do when they got in the lane.

Quote from: Dave on September 20, 2016, 08:49:10 PM

Quote from: jr49 on September 20, 2016, 02:55:43 PM

M.E. telegraphs his move, and starts it to far from the hoop. Gets pass off when in trouble and shows that coming also. Those moves are big trouble for a guard. When he loses those habits maybe he can start to develop some guard skills.

I'd have to watch film to see if this is true. I can't recall him from memory telegraphing especially far from the hoop. I do think he forced things early in the season which is what I think is drawing some comparisons to DJ as a freshman.

DJ as a freshman got sucked in too deep on his drives instead of pulling up. I think the development curve can be similar not their games.

At that time DJ couldn't hit shots like that. He hit a few threes now and then. He missed a lot more. He just wasn't a good shooter.  I think people are comparing a freshman Malik Ellison to an upperclassman version of DJ Kennedy. Neither player knew what to do when they got in the lane.

26 min / 7.8 p / 5.8 r / 1.4 a / 1.9 to / .44 / .70 / .33

21 min / 7.3 p / 2.5 r / 2.6 a / 2.6 to / .37 / .65 / .31


Except for rebounding - and DJK was one of the better rebounding SJ guards ever - they're essentially the same player. Same size, same stats, same position. I'm not going to pretend to be able to parse freshman DJ Kennedy from sophomore DJ Kennedy but it wouldn't surprise me if he was a bit farther along considering ME's injury and Norm's keen eye for talent. But one would think that ME's trajectory is at least as promising considering who tutored DJ and who Ellison is learning from.

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2016, 11:59:28 PM

Quote from: Dave on September 20, 2016, 08:49:10 PM

Quote from: jr49 on September 20, 2016, 02:55:43 PM

M.E. telegraphs his move, and starts it to far from the hoop. Gets pass off when in trouble and shows that coming also. Those moves are big trouble for a guard. When he loses those habits maybe he can start to develop some guard skills.

I'd have to watch film to see if this is true. I can't recall him from memory telegraphing especially far from the hoop. I do think he forced things early in the season which is what I think is drawing some comparisons to DJ as a freshman.

DJ as a freshman got sucked in too deep on his drives instead of pulling up. I think the development curve can be similar not their games.

At that time DJ couldn't hit shots like that. He hit a few threes now and then. He missed a lot more. He just wasn't a good shooter.  I think people are comparing a freshman Malik Ellison to an upperclassman version of DJ Kennedy. Neither player knew what to do when they got in the lane.

26 min / 7.8 p / 5.8 r / 1.4 a / 1.9 to / .44 / .70 / .33

21 min / 7.3 p / 2.5 r / 2.6 a / 2.6 to / .37 / .65 / .31


Except for rebounding - and DJK was one of the better rebounding SJ guards ever - they're essentially the same player. Same size, same stats, same position. I'm not going to pretend to be able to parse freshman DJ Kennedy from sophomore DJ Kennedy but it wouldn't surprise me if he was a bit farther along considering ME's injury and Norm's keen eye for talent. But one would think that ME's trajectory is at least as promising considering who tutored DJ and who Ellison is learning from.

Put me in the promising trajectory camp. Huge Ellison fan, love his size and his confidence (misguided as it may have been at times) even more. I think Ellison may be a better shooter when he is done here, but DJ always seemed to play within himself (in control) and was willing to mix it up down low, though Ellison has plenty of time to get to that level.

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2016, 11:59:28 PM

Quote from: Dave on September 20, 2016, 08:49:10 PM

Quote from: jr49 on September 20, 2016, 02:55:43 PM

M.E. telegraphs his move, and starts it to far from the hoop. Gets pass off when in trouble and shows that coming also. Those moves are big trouble for a guard. When he loses those habits maybe he can start to develop some guard skills.

I'd have to watch film to see if this is true. I can't recall him from memory telegraphing especially far from the hoop. I do think he forced things early in the season which is what I think is drawing some comparisons to DJ as a freshman.

DJ as a freshman got sucked in too deep on his drives instead of pulling up. I think the development curve can be similar not their games.

At that time DJ couldn't hit shots like that. He hit a few threes now and then. He missed a lot more. He just wasn't a good shooter.  I think people are comparing a freshman Malik Ellison to an upperclassman version of DJ Kennedy. Neither player knew what to do when they got in the lane.

26 min / 7.8 p / 5.8 r / 1.4 a / 1.9 to / .44 / .70 / .33

21 min / 7.3 p / 2.5 r / 2.6 a / 2.6 to / .37 / .65 / .31


Except for rebounding - and DJK was one of the better rebounding SJ guards ever - they're essentially the same player. Same size, same stats, same position. I'm not going to pretend to be able to parse freshman DJ Kennedy from sophomore DJ Kennedy but it wouldn't surprise me if he was a bit farther along considering ME's injury and Norm's keen eye for talent. But one would think that ME's trajectory is at least as promising considering who tutored DJ and who Ellison is learning from.

There's a big difference between 44% from the field and 37%. 44% is pretty good, 37% is almost mediocre.

Quote from: Foad on September 21, 2016, 07:28:27 AM

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2016, 11:59:28 PM

Quote from: Dave on September 20, 2016, 08:49:10 PM

Quote from: jr49 on September 20, 2016, 02:55:43 PM

M.E. telegraphs his move, and starts it to far from the hoop. Gets pass off when in trouble and shows that coming also. Those moves are big trouble for a guard. When he loses those habits maybe he can start to develop some guard skills.

I'd have to watch film to see if this is true. I can't recall him from memory telegraphing especially far from the hoop. I do think he forced things early in the season which is what I think is drawing some comparisons to DJ as a freshman.

DJ as a freshman got sucked in too deep on his drives instead of pulling up. I think the development curve can be similar not their games.

At that time DJ couldn't hit shots like that. He hit a few threes now and then. He missed a lot more. He just wasn't a good shooter.  I think people are comparing a freshman Malik Ellison to an upperclassman version of DJ Kennedy. Neither player knew what to do when they got in the lane.

26 min / 7.8 p / 5.8 r / 1.4 a / 1.9 to / .44 / .70 / .33

21 min / 7.3 p / 2.5 r / 2.6 a / 2.6 to / .37 / .65 / .31


Except for rebounding - and DJK was one of the better rebounding SJ guards ever - they're essentially the same player. Same size, same stats, same position. I'm not going to pretend to be able to parse freshman DJ Kennedy from sophomore DJ Kennedy but it wouldn't surprise me if he was a bit farther along considering ME's injury and Norm's keen eye for talent. But one would think that ME's trajectory is at least as promising considering who tutored DJ and who Ellison is learning from.

There's a big difference between 44% from the field and 37%. 44% is pretty good, 37% is almost mediocre.

DJ was impressive in the pre season games, but in BE play he wasn't as good.

Quote from: Foad on September 21, 2016, 07:28:27 AM

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2016, 11:59:28 PM

Quote from: Dave on September 20, 2016, 08:49:10 PM

Quote from: jr49 on September 20, 2016, 02:55:43 PM

M.E. telegraphs his move, and starts it to far from the hoop. Gets pass off when in trouble and shows that coming also. Those moves are big trouble for a guard. When he loses those habits maybe he can start to develop some guard skills.

I'd have to watch film to see if this is true. I can't recall him from memory telegraphing especially far from the hoop. I do think he forced things early in the season which is what I think is drawing some comparisons to DJ as a freshman.

DJ as a freshman got sucked in too deep on his drives instead of pulling up. I think the development curve can be similar not their games.

At that time DJ couldn't hit shots like that. He hit a few threes now and then. He missed a lot more. He just wasn't a good shooter.  I think people are comparing a freshman Malik Ellison to an upperclassman version of DJ Kennedy. Neither player knew what to do when they got in the lane.

26 min / 7.8 p / 5.8 r / 1.4 a / 1.9 to / .44 / .70 / .33

21 min / 7.3 p / 2.5 r / 2.6 a / 2.6 to / .37 / .65 / .31


Except for rebounding - and DJK was one of the better rebounding SJ guards ever - they're essentially the same player. Same size, same stats, same position. I'm not going to pretend to be able to parse freshman DJ Kennedy from sophomore DJ Kennedy but it wouldn't surprise me if he was a bit farther along considering ME's injury and Norm's keen eye for talent. But one would think that ME's trajectory is at least as promising considering who tutored DJ and who Ellison is learning from.

There's a big difference between 44% from the field and 37%. 44% is pretty good, 37% is almost mediocre.

No there isn't. The difference between .37 and .44 is .07. Point zero seven is not "big," it is very small. If it was any smaller it would be zero. A million is a big number. Seventeen trillion is a big number. Point oh seven is a very very very very very very very small number. Sure, no doubt there are circumstances under which a difference of .07 is significant - when plotting the path of Apollo XIII to the moon perhaps - but this is not one of them.

And in fact the difference between these shooting percentages is three occurrences out of a hundred - three different occurrences and the percentages would be virtually identical. Which means that if DJ Kennedy had made 5 less shots of the 177 he attempted and Ellison made 4 more shots of the 133 he attempted their shooting percentages would be the same. Those 9 shots do not comprise the difference between "good" and "mediocre" unless those words have the same lack of meaning as does "big" when applied to .07.

Quote from: yankcranker on September 22, 2016, 08:20:31 PM

Quote from: Foad on September 21, 2016, 07:28:27 AM

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2016, 11:59:28 PM

Quote from: Dave on September 20, 2016, 08:49:10 PM

Quote from: jr49 on September 20, 2016, 02:55:43 PM

M.E. telegraphs his move, and starts it to far from the hoop. Gets pass off when in trouble and shows that coming also. Those moves are big trouble for a guard. When he loses those habits maybe he can start to develop some guard skills.

I'd have to watch film to see if this is true. I can't recall him from memory telegraphing especially far from the hoop. I do think he forced things early in the season which is what I think is drawing some comparisons to DJ as a freshman.

DJ as a freshman got sucked in too deep on his drives instead of pulling up. I think the development curve can be similar not their games.

At that time DJ couldn't hit shots like that. He hit a few threes now and then. He missed a lot more. He just wasn't a good shooter.  I think people are comparing a freshman Malik Ellison to an upperclassman version of DJ Kennedy. Neither player knew what to do when they got in the lane.

26 min / 7.8 p / 5.8 r / 1.4 a / 1.9 to / .44 / .70 / .33

21 min / 7.3 p / 2.5 r / 2.6 a / 2.6 to / .37 / .65 / .31


Except for rebounding - and DJK was one of the better rebounding SJ guards ever - they're essentially the same player. Same size, same stats, same position. I'm not going to pretend to be able to parse freshman DJ Kennedy from sophomore DJ Kennedy but it wouldn't surprise me if he was a bit farther along considering ME's injury and Norm's keen eye for talent. But one would think that ME's trajectory is at least as promising considering who tutored DJ and who Ellison is learning from.

There's a big difference between 44% from the field and 37%. 44% is pretty good, 37% is almost mediocre.

No there isn't. The difference between .37 and .44 is .07. Point zero seven is not "big," it is very small. If it was any smaller it would be zero. A million is a big number. Seventeen trillion is a big number. Point oh seven is a very very very very very very very small number. Sure, no doubt there are circumstances under which a difference of .07 is significant - when plotting the path of Apollo XIII to the moon perhaps - but this is not one of them.

And in fact the difference between these shooting percentages is three occurrences out of a hundred - three different occurrences and the percentages would be virtually identical. Which means that if DJ Kennedy had made 5 less shots of the 177 he attempted and Ellison made 4 more shots of the 133 he attempted their shooting percentages would be the same. Those 9 shots do not comprise the difference between "good" and "mediocre" unless those words have the same lack of meaning as does "big" when applied to .07.

That's funny because I had a long post typed out that said don't say anything stupid like "actually the difference the 7%", but I gave you more credit than that (the difference between 44% and 37% is actually almost 20%) but I tell you what you stack your team with 37% shooters and I'll stack mine with 44% shooters and we'll see who wins. 

And to boot if Malik shot more he'd have to have gone 31 of 47 (that's 66% which is really only 19% more than 47% roll eyes)  to match DJ's shooting his frosh year.  I don't think Malik could do that if all 47 were dunks. 

And to boot if Malik shot more he'd have to have gone 31 of 47 (that's 66% which is really only 19% more than 47% roll eyes)  to match DJ's shooting his frosh year.  I don't think Malik could do that if all 47 were dunks. 

Also think of it this way.   Almost all basketball players shoot somewhere between 35% and 50%, the bottom being poor the top being really good.  So the total deviation in the range is only 15%.  Considering that a deviation of 7% is substantial.

The difference between a 44% shooter and a 37% shooter is very substantial. Can't believe that is even being debated.  If you shoot lower than 37%, you will not have a spot in D1 basketball.

^this

Quote from: yankcranker on September 23, 2016, 06:05:25 PM

And to boot if Malik shot more he'd have to have gone 31 of 47 (that's 66% which is really only 19% more than 47% roll eyes)  to match DJ's shooting his frosh year.  I don't think Malik could do that if all 47 were dunks. 

Also think of it this way.   Almost all basketball players shoot somewhere between 35% and 50%, the bottom being poor the top being really good.  So the total deviation in the range is only 15%.  Considering that a deviation of 7% is substantial.

Three replies to one post: you lose.

The difference between a 44% shooter and a 37% shooter is very substantial. Can't believe that is even being debated.  If you shoot lower than 37%, you will not have a spot in D1 basketball.

The third leading scorer in Saint John's history shot 37 percent from the floor as a freshman, 39 percent as a sophomore and 38 percent as a junior. They managed to find a place in D1 for him.

Phil Greene shot 36 and 37 percent his first two years.

Daryl Hill shot 38 percent as a freshman.

Cedric Jackson shot 33 and 36 percent his first two years, they found a spot for him in the NBA.

Thus do facts refute conjecture.

The difference between a career 37 percent shooter and a career 44 percent shooter might be substantial, depending on the circumstances. The difference between two freshmen shooting those percentages is meaningless.