Best midnight madness ever

Dave...I hope Ellison has improved as much as many here HOPE he has. I can only base my doubts on what I saw last year. Yes he is bigger and stronger than Mussini, but Mussini has a much better basketball IQ than Ellison who is often out of control and out of position. Mussini's deficincies on defense come from his lack of speed and height. Ellison's deficiencies on defense come from a lack of positioning and from a lack of understanding angles needed to contain opponents. I will always take the player who understands the team aspects of the game over the player with the more physical attributes who doesn't use them to the benefit of the team.

Dave...I hope Ellison has improved as much as many here HOPE he has. I can only base my doubts on what I saw last year. Yes he is bigger and stronger than Mussini, but Mussini has a much better basketball IQ than Ellison who is often out of control and out of position. Mussini's deficincies on defense come from his lack of speed and height. Ellison's deficiencies on defense come from a lack of positioning and from a lack of understanding angles needed to contain opponents. I will always take the player who understands the team aspects of the game over the player with the more physical attributes who doesn't use them to the benefit of the team.

Freshman are Freshman. Let's see what the kids have learned. It all comes down to their awareness and their plan for getting better.

Quote from: Dave on October 17, 2016, 10:41:52 PM

I thought the kids looked a little nervous and rightfully so. That atmosphere was something I've never seen before at St. John's. I was hyped.

I thought the guys played with more intensity than I expected. Defense wasn't absent.

Individually I thought Lovett looked like Lovett. He's gonna handle the ball better than anyone could last season. He'll make some amazing plays and he'll have a few head scratchers. I'm hoping the good outweighs the bad. Additionally I'm hoping guys play with ready hands because he'll whip some passes in tight spaces.

Mussini looks very comfortable doing what he does. His pull up looks like an instant replay every time. That's a sign of repetition. He's also so good at laying the ball in. I'm hoping the added weight will help him finish absorbing contact.

Yakwe releases the ball higher than Sima. It's crazy he plays like a 7 footer. He's gonna be a consistent 7,7,3.

Amar isn't expected to crack rotation but I have a feeling he's gonna find his way on the floor. I really don't mind seeing him pull the trigger from the outside. He's also added on size. A mature body down low is gonna be needed. The other thing is the kid plays with energy all the time. Great spark plug to have.

Elijah Holifield grew maybe 3 in. He'll never see the floor but great practice body. He can be a tremendous asset playing scout team.

Sima looked like Sima

Richard Freudenberg was a lot taller than I expected. His stroke is pure. Game is a little fast for him right now but damn the potential is there. Need to put him in positions to succeed and develop confidence early on.

Shamorie Ponds didn't show off his ability to score. I thought he did a great job of passing and being a pest on defense. I loved to see his interaction with teammates too. Lovett, Mussini, Ellison were all bro'ing it up.

Tariq Owens looked bigger and he can potentially be a good energy guy. I'm hopeful they'll use him sparingly because I think he'll be more efficient in short sprints and he'll get sloppy in extended minutes.

Justin Simon and Marvin Clark will be impact players next year.

 Freudenberg will need time.  Right now he's Hooper with better skills.

I agree he'll need time. But I think he is more Mo Harkless than he is Max Hooper.

Considering what Mullin did with Amir, Im excited how RF will turn out.  Hes going to be a stud.

Considering what Mullin did with Amir, Im excited how RF will turn out.  Hes going to be a stud.

Do you mean Amar? If so, exactly what has he done? To date he has been raw, prone to foul, a poor defensive player & spotty shooter. Granted he is entering his third year, but I just don't see anything but hope. The scrimmage means nothing. Nice, enthusiastic player, but  let's see what he has over course of season. Btw, Freudenberg played at higher level in Europe with much more productivity than Amar.

With Richard Freudenberg as Mo Harkless and Federico "Microwave" Mussini as Vinnie Johnson we are poised to have a great year. 

I smell championships!

I Like the depth and team makeup.  If they play together could be as high as 4th in the BE.  Play of Freud and Ponds will be the key,  if they perform well this year could be very interesting. 

With Richard Freudenberg as Mo Harkless and Federico "Microwave" Mussini as Vinnie Johnson we are poised to have a great year. 

Our 8th and 9th men being compared to NBA players lol.
Some people on here not going top take 14 or 15 wins very well

Quote from: longtimefan on October 19, 2016, 04:35:22 PM

If Ponds doesn't start, then I feel that Mussini should. If Ellison is starting and getting major minutes we are in trouble. My starting lineup would be

Lovett
Ponds
Ahmed
Yakwe
Sima

1st off the bench:

Mussini
Freudenberg
Owens

Why would St. John's be in trouble if Ellison starts? Bigger, stronger, and better defender than Mussini.

Let Mussini come in and be the spark plug. Microwave off the bench.

Where did we get that microwave? Crazy Eddie's. Hope there is a good return policy

I Like the depth and team makeup.  If they play together could be as high as 4th in the BE.  Play of Freud and Ponds will be the key,  if they perform well this year could be very interesting. 

We are absolutely loaded with talent, I have them at 4th as well CJ.. Mullin could decide to go big just as easily as a small lineup. There's the obvious small lineup with Marcus/Shamorie/Malik/Bash/Yakwe, but how about this length for a big man lineup when we have to matchup with the frontlines of Minnesota, Michigan St., Baylor Nova, GTown, Cuse:

PG-Malik
SG-Rich
SF-Bash
PF-Yakwe
C- Sima or Tariq

When you consider meshing these two lineups normally, and  then sprinkling in Moose, Darien, Amar, WOW. Our versatility and depth is going to cause matchup nightmares for everyone.

Btw, the least heralded thus far player this preseason might be the one with the most potential-Rich. I think people are really going to take a liking to his sharpshooting and ability to fill the lanes with his athleticism.

Quote from: cjfish on October 20, 2016, 09:48:50 AM

I Like the depth and team makeup.  If they play together could be as high as 4th in the BE.  Play of Freud and Ponds will be the key,  if they perform well this year could be very interesting. 

We are absolutely loaded with talent, I have them at 4th as well CJ.. Mullin could decide to go big just as easily as a small lineup. There's the obvious small lineup with Marcus/Shamorie/Malik/Bash/Yakwe, but how about this length for a big man lineup when we have to matchup with the frontlines of Minnesota, Michigan St., Baylor Nova, GTown, Cuse:

PG-Malik
SG-Rich
SF-Bash
PF-Yakwe
C- Sima or Tariq

When you consider meshing these two lineups normally, and  then sprinkling in Moose, Darien, Amar, WOW. Our versatility and depth is going to cause matchup nightmares for everyone.

Btw, the least heralded thus far player this preseason might be the one with the most potential-Rich. I think people are really going to take a liking to his sharpshooting and ability to fill the lanes with his athleticism.

I seriously hope we never see that "big lineup"

I really think LoVett is the clear answer at the point. Malik Ellison could perhaps bring it up once or twice a game based on the circumstance. He is not a point guard. We have an elite point guard. The other positions are up for grabs.

I really think LoVett is the clear answer at the point. Malik Ellison could perhaps bring it up once or twice a game based on the circumstance. He is not a point guard. We have an elite point guard. The other positions are up for grabs.

Poison, my Metro-North partner in crime- Who's your 3rd PG in a pinch, Malik or Moose?

Quote from: Poison on October 20, 2016, 11:18:11 AM

I really think LoVett is the clear answer at the point. Malik Ellison could perhaps bring it up once or twice a game based on the circumstance. He is not a point guard. We have an elite point guard. The other positions are up for grabs.

Poison, my Metro-North partner in crime- Who's your 3rd PG in a pinch, Malik or Moose?

Personally if I had a vote I vote for Ponds and Lovett to play 35 a game

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 03:36:54 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on October 19, 2016, 02:39:13 PM

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 02:18:43 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on October 19, 2016, 01:25:15 PM

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 12:24:42 PM

Starters- Lovett, Ellison, Bashir, Yakwe, Sima

Rotation- Mussini, Ponds, Owens, Richard

Depth- Williams, Amar

Not enough, or any at all, outside shooting with the starters. That's why I think Ponds may start - just to spread the floor a bit.  I have a feeling Lovett's and Ahmed's outside shot won't be respected at all, so defenses will just pack it in us. We almost have to start Ponds for that reason.

Am am crazy in thinking that way?

Ponds isn't a shooter.

Then it's going to be rough season. Defenses will just pack it in on us if our starting five + Ponds all can't shoot from the outside.   Mussini and Freud off the bench aren't going to be enough shooting wise (because they won't get enough minutes in combination)

We can't have no outside shooting, and poor free throw shooting from our big men - all in our starting lineup. Terrible combination. We'll be chucking up too many mid-range shots.

I've just instantly re-calibrated downward my expectations for this season.  Too bad.

I didn't say he can't shoot but he isn't a shooter. He's a pure scorer.

Also with Lovett, Ellison, Ponds you have 3 guys who can penetrate the lane. All 3 are capable of scoring or making the pass. That's valuable.

Mussini is similar but not as explosive as 3 mentioned above. I really like the interchangeability and versatility of this team. Toughest thing will be playing right combos.

Does this team mentally have what it takes to make plays and get stops and win the tied-3pt games with 4 mins left? That's the big question for me

Win those games?  I think we first need to prove we can score enough to be in a tied or 2pt game with 4mins left.

Quote from: Poison on October 20, 2016, 11:18:11 AM

I really think LoVett is the clear answer at the point. Malik Ellison could perhaps bring it up once or twice a game based on the circumstance. He is not a point guard. We have an elite point guard. The other positions are up for grabs.

Poison, my Metro-North partner in crime- Who's your 3rd PG in a pinch, Malik or Moose?

Unless Ponds or Lovett is injured, in foul trouble, or misses a game, one of the two should always be the PG. Let Malik or Moose be SGs  .IMO.

Quote from: Poison on October 20, 2016, 11:18:11 AM

I really think LoVett is the clear answer at the point. Malik Ellison could perhaps bring it up once or twice a game based on the circumstance. He is not a point guard. We have an elite point guard. The other positions are up for grabs.

Poison, my Metro-North partner in crime- Who's your 3rd PG in a pinch, Malik or Moose?

Lol, yes. Small world. For me it's Ellison, but that is without seeing what kind of players we have now in him and Moose. We haven't seen them in action since early March. I look at him and I see a kid who did improve over the course of the season, and if he keeps improving, he could be a real asset in terms of versatility. I just don't see that yet, so I'd really prefer that he isn't playing the point at all unless there is an unusual situation like we are up by 40, and Mullin is playing around some to kill time.

Quote from: goredmen on October 19, 2016, 04:14:51 PM

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 03:36:54 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on October 19, 2016, 02:39:13 PM

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 02:18:43 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on October 19, 2016, 01:25:15 PM

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 12:24:42 PM

Starters- Lovett, Ellison, Bashir, Yakwe, Sima

Rotation- Mussini, Ponds, Owens, Richard

Depth- Williams, Amar

Not enough, or any at all, outside shooting with the starters. That's why I think Ponds may start - just to spread the floor a bit.  I have a feeling Lovett's and Ahmed's outside shot won't be respected at all, so defenses will just pack it in us. We almost have to start Ponds for that reason.

Am am crazy in thinking that way?

Ponds isn't a shooter.

Then it's going to be rough season. Defenses will just pack it in on us if our starting five + Ponds all can't shoot from the outside.   Mussini and Freud off the bench aren't going to be enough shooting wise (because they won't get enough minutes in combination)

We can't have no outside shooting, and poor free throw shooting from our big men - all in our starting lineup. Terrible combination. We'll be chucking up too many mid-range shots.

I've just instantly re-calibrated downward my expectations for this season.  Too bad.

I didn't say he can't shoot but he isn't a shooter. He's a pure scorer.

Also with Lovett, Ellison, Ponds you have 3 guys who can penetrate the lane. All 3 are capable of scoring or making the pass. That's valuable.

Mussini is similar but not as explosive as 3 mentioned above. I really like the interchangeability and versatility of this team. Toughest thing will be playing right combos.

Does this team mentally have what it takes to make plays and get stops and win the tied-3pt games with 4 mins left? That's the big question for me

Win those games?  I think we first need to prove we can score enough to be in a tied or 2pt game with 4mins left.

We were actually in that position a few times last year, and against some good teams too. So it wouldn't be foolish at all to think we will be in more of those games again this year, and winning those games more than losing them is what separate great teams from good teams, good teams from average teams and average teams from bad teams.

Quote from: desco80 on October 20, 2016, 11:44:16 AM

Quote from: goredmen on October 19, 2016, 04:14:51 PM

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 03:36:54 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on October 19, 2016, 02:39:13 PM

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 02:18:43 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on October 19, 2016, 01:25:15 PM

Quote from: Dave on October 19, 2016, 12:24:42 PM

Starters- Lovett, Ellison, Bashir, Yakwe, Sima

Rotation- Mussini, Ponds, Owens, Richard

Depth- Williams, Amar

Not enough, or any at all, outside shooting with the starters. That's why I think Ponds may start - just to spread the floor a bit.  I have a feeling Lovett's and Ahmed's outside shot won't be respected at all, so defenses will just pack it in us. We almost have to start Ponds for that reason.

Am am crazy in thinking that way?

Ponds isn't a shooter.

Then it's going to be rough season. Defenses will just pack it in on us if our starting five + Ponds all can't shoot from the outside.   Mussini and Freud off the bench aren't going to be enough shooting wise (because they won't get enough minutes in combination)

We can't have no outside shooting, and poor free throw shooting from our big men - all in our starting lineup. Terrible combination. We'll be chucking up too many mid-range shots.

I've just instantly re-calibrated downward my expectations for this season.  Too bad.

I didn't say he can't shoot but he isn't a shooter. He's a pure scorer.

Also with Lovett, Ellison, Ponds you have 3 guys who can penetrate the lane. All 3 are capable of scoring or making the pass. That's valuable.

Mussini is similar but not as explosive as 3 mentioned above. I really like the interchangeability and versatility of this team. Toughest thing will be playing right combos.

Does this team mentally have what it takes to make plays and get stops and win the tied-3pt games with 4 mins left? That's the big question for me

Win those games?  I think we first need to prove we can score enough to be in a tied or 2pt game with 4mins left.

We were actually in that position a few times last year, and against some good teams too. So it wouldn't be foolish at all to think we will be in more of those games again this year, and winning those games more than losing them is what separate great teams from good teams, good teams from average teams and average teams from bad teams.

A very, very few times. We were outscored in BE by average of 14 a game last year.
I think it would be best if we just pretended last year never happened. Sort of like Rocky V, Caddy Shack 2, the Norm Roberts years and the 2016 Presidential election.