Mid-year transfers?

Quote from: goredmen on December 27, 2016, 07:09:16 PM

Quote from: sju89tr on December 27, 2016, 06:54:13 PM

Mullin is really our only chance to become relevant again. How can a guy like him not be able to coach?

Can't fire Mullin after 2 years....

I disagree with that. We can be relevant with a bunch of coaches. Lavin made us relevant by bringing in highly rated recruits but just didn't know how to coach in games or run a stable/consistent program.

 A guy like Danny Hurley would make us relevant. Any up and coming college coach that knows how to recruit, coach and run a college program could make and keep us relevant. Why can't we be a program like Butler and Xavier that maintains a consistent high level program year in and year out with guys that aren't considered high level coaches at the time they are hired.

Not saying Mullin can't or won't make us relevant again, but don't think it's fair to say he's the only one that can. Imagine if we got our hands on a guy like Archie Miller before Dayton did? If we find the next Archie we'd be very relevant

I didn't say to fire Mullin after two years. All I said was he's not the only guy that can make us relevant again

Can't fire Mullin after 2 years....

Can't fire Mullin after 2 years....

In just about every scenario, I agree. But if after this season it's clear that he's not as good of a coach as Norm Roberts the pressure will be substantial for him to recognize that and step down. He needs to be better than the worst coach in our history, or he gets that honor. Fair is fair.

Quote from: ras on December 27, 2016, 07:27:12 PM

Can't fire Mullin after 2 years....

In just about every scenario, I agree. But if after this season it's clear that he's not as good of a coach as Norm Roberts the pressure will be substantial for him to recognize that and step down. He needs to be better than the worst coach in our history, or he gets that honor. Fair is fair.

 Where is this "pressure" going to come from? Because if it's not coming from the admin, the AD, or the big money boosters.....it doesn't matter. 

When a booster throws his money and his rep behind a hire like Mullin, he's not cutting bait after 2 years...just not happening... These guys have egos as well, and aren't throwing in the towel to basically admit failure , after 2 years...Not when the hire is the most popular alumni ever..

 Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

I never posted that Mullin should be fired. Right now I don't think he is a good basketball coach. Would give him more time because if we recruit a few blue chippers we can win even with X and Os deficiencies (though for the life of me can't understand why he doesn't hire a veteran XO coach).

Quote from: boo3 on December 27, 2016, 08:08:55 PM

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

I never posted that Mullin should be fired. Right now I don't think he is a good basketball coach. Would give him more time because if we recruit a few blue chippers we can win even with X and Os deficiencies (though for the life of me can't understand why he doesn't hire a veteran XO coach).

Don't underestimate the influence and effect that an experienced X's and O's coach can have on players and take them from good to very good or very good to great. Blue chippers alone will not get this program to the tourney, better in-game coaching is imperative to make that leap

I agree 100% about an experienced bench coach.. I think it's the biggest mistake Mullin has made to this point..

Maybe we can hire Shaka Smart.  I'm watching Adonis Delarosas Kent State team beat Texas.  Or maybe he can't coach either.

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

If this team finishes with 8 wins again, and one or two of LoVett and Ellison jumps ship you don't think the pressure will be on? Maybe it won't be, and isn't that something that concerns you?

Quote from: boo3 on December 27, 2016, 08:08:55 PM

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

If this team finishes with 8 wins again, and one or two of LoVett and Ellison jumps ship you don't think the pressure will be on? Maybe it won't be, and isn't that something that concerns you?

 That is a lot of "ifs"... Too many for me to start thinking about replacing the face of the program...I'm sorry... I'll wait to see what actually happens first... 

   Re: Ellison... In the beginning of the season I posted that he might be the most important player for this team's success.. The comment was met with basically 3/4 of the board saying "Ellison sucks and isn't even a BE player".   He's shown some improvement and I stand by my statement.. He should be our best defender..a guy that can matchup with multiple positions and can play 3 positions .. I guess my question is , after he was shat on for being a zero, why are we concerned if he leaves?

But that doesn't answer your question, does it concern me..

Assuming we finish with 8 wins and Lovett leaves..I would not call for a coaching change.. I'd be disappointed...

Who are we getting to come here and coach ? Our fanbase has this pie in the sky idea that great coaches are waiting by the phone for the St John's job...have you ever seen these other programs facilities? It's an uphill fight from day one... Playing in NYC and MSG has limited cache these days...

Quote from: Poison on December 27, 2016, 09:49:46 PM

Quote from: boo3 on December 27, 2016, 08:08:55 PM

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

If this team finishes with 8 wins again, and one or two of LoVett and Ellison jumps ship you don't think the pressure will be on? Maybe it won't be, and isn't that something that concerns you?

 That is a lot of "ifs"... Too many for me to start thinking about replacing the face of the program...I'm sorry... I'll wait to see what actually happens first... 

   Re: Ellison... In the beginning of the season I posted that he might be the most important player for this team's success.. The comment was met with basically 3/4 of the board saying "Ellison sucks and isn't even a BE player".   He's shown some improvement and I stand by my statement.. He should be our best defender..a guy that can matchup with multiple positions and can play 3 positions .. I guess my question is , after he was shat on for being a zero, why are we concerned if he leaves?

I think we're concerned because the sky falls all the time around here.

Regarding Ellison,  I said the same thing about him. The majority of the board responded with points about how bad he is. So far this season, out of the 4 freshman, he is the only player who looks improved, and it's important to note that he's only looked improved for the last 3 games.

At this point, Mullin's fate shouldn't be determined, but he has to show progress this year. I'd love to see a reason to believe in Chris Mullin the coach. Let's see what where the team and the program are in March. No sense in talking about a new coach in December.

But that doesn't answer your question, does it concern me..

Assuming we finish with 8 wins and Lovett leaves..I would not call for a coaching change.. I'd be disappointed...

Who are we getting to come here and coach ? Our fanbase has this pie in the sky idea that great coaches are waiting by the phone for the St John's job...have you ever seen these other programs facilities? It's an uphill fight from day one... Playing in NYC and MSG has limited cache these days...

The problem isn't our talent for a rare change. An experienced coach is what's missing here. This team can score. They can shoot better than any STJ team I've ever seen. They don't play defense.
Don't you think a Steve Pikiell could do some damage with real talent? You think if Mass was coaching here everyone would be casually jogging back on d? I'm not saying these choice are surefire home runs, but they've had the job before.

Look at how this has gone for us. Since Lou retired, we've hired two coaches with previous and significant head coaching experiment. Neither was a long term answer but both had some success here. Both made the NCAA with teams that they assembled. Now compare their body of work to Mahoney, Roberts and Mullin. Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I don't want any of the 5 back, and I'm not applauding the job that they did, but head coaching experience has been a difference maker for our program, and the University ignored it.

Quote from: boo3 on December 27, 2016, 08:08:55 PM

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

If this team finishes with 8 wins again, and one or two of LoVett and Ellison jumps ship you don't think the pressure will be on? Maybe it won't be, and isn't that something that concerns you?

What is the coaching staff supposed to do if Lovett wants to leave? How is that going to be on them? From the looks of things the kid hasn't stayed at any school for more then year since middle school. Win and loses come down on Mullin and he will have to answer for that after next season if we don't see a big jump but the transfer thing I don't buy.

Quote from: Poison on December 27, 2016, 09:49:46 PM

Quote from: boo3 on December 27, 2016, 08:08:55 PM

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

If this team finishes with 8 wins again, and one or two of LoVett and Ellison jumps ship you don't think the pressure will be on? Maybe it won't be, and isn't that something that concerns you?

What is the coaching staff supposed to do if Lovett wants to leave? How is that going to be on them? From the looks of things the kid hasn't stayed at any school for more then year since middle school. Win and loses come down on Mullin and he will have to answer for that after next season if we don't see a big jump but the transfer thing I don't buy.

If you keep losing kids that you had counted on to be key parts of your team, you are then constantly starting over. Imagine if Norm Roberts had Cedric Jackson to run the point in 2007-2008? If you can't maintain continuity in your program, you can't establish your program. What it really comes down is whether or not talented players are running from Mullin because of Mullin or because when things get hard, they just give up. LoVett didn't jump around because he wanted to. His father took responsibility for that. Would this be his fault, too?

If you can't maintain continuity in your program, you can't establish your program.

Which continuity you maintain by firing the coach two years into a five year rebuilding project.

Look at how this has gone for us. Since Lou retired, we've hired two coaches with previous and significant head coaching experiment. Neither was a long term answer but both had some success here. Both made the NCAA with teams that they assembled. Now compare their body of work to Mahoney, Roberts and Mullin. Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I don't want any of the 5 back, and I'm not applauding the job that they did, but head coaching experience has been a difference maker for our program, and the University ignored it.

This is true only if you believe that experience is the only variable that matters and it's clearly not, since half of all experienced coaches fail every year. And two of your own examples, Norm and Mahoney, both had previous head coaching experience. So so much for the experience factor.

 The real difference in outcomes is the talent and experience of the players: look at the rosters Jarvis and Lavin inherited and compare them to what Mullin and Norm and were left with. The former inherited tournament teams with arguably the most talented rosters this program has seen in 25 years and it took those guys three or four years to assemble their own tournament teams.

The latter two inherited the garbage that was left over when those two bums squandered their inheritance - probably the two worst rosters this program has seen in 25 years - and you want Mullin out because he hasn't turned it around in a year and a half. And you want to bring iun some dope who's .500 lifetime at Rhode Island where he lost two-thirds of his games his first two years. Sorry but it's ridiculous.

Quote from: Wods317 on December 28, 2016, 07:38:31 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 27, 2016, 09:49:46 PM

Quote from: boo3 on December 27, 2016, 08:08:55 PM

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

If this team finishes with 8 wins again, and one or two of LoVett and Ellison jumps ship you don't think the pressure will be on? Maybe it won't be, and isn't that something that concerns you?

What is the coaching staff supposed to do if Lovett wants to leave? How is that going to be on them? From the looks of things the kid hasn't stayed at any school for more then year since middle school. Win and loses come down on Mullin and he will have to answer for that after next season if we don't see a big jump but the transfer thing I don't buy.

If you keep losing kids that you had counted on to be key parts of your team, you are then constantly starting over. Imagine if Norm Roberts had Cedric Jackson to run the point in 2007-2008? If you can't maintain continuity in your program, you can't establish your program. What it really comes down is whether or not talented players are running from Mullin because of Mullin or because when things get hard, they just give up. LoVett didn't jump around because he wanted to. His father took responsibility for that. Would this be his fault, too?

Lovett flirted with leaving last year before he even played a game, I think that says a lot. He is a good players but maybe he is one those guy who just isn't happy in one place for too long. Sima is the only guy who has transferred and no one seemed that upset about it. If 3 rotation players leaver after the season as some have said then yea you can place a lot of that blame on Mullin because obviously you have a group of guys who aren't happy with the program but Lovett leaving as a reason to cut bait with Mullin? Absurd.

Quote from: Poison on December 28, 2016, 08:19:17 AM

Quote from: Wods317 on December 28, 2016, 07:38:31 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 27, 2016, 09:49:46 PM

Quote from: boo3 on December 27, 2016, 08:08:55 PM

Trust me...Mullin and the AD aren't worried about Tony, Poison, and Celts screaming from their ass-pads in their alumni Hall seats chanting Fire Mullin...

I'm not thrilled with the early results, but I think things can turn around.. It's all about defense...like Others have stated, the offense looks good.. defense can be taught and is about heart.   I'm personally not throwing in  The the towel by a long shot..  After year three we can take stock of the program.. We are 1 and half seasons in....so damn young.  ( I know you hate to hear it, but it's the facts).

If this team finishes with 8 wins again, and one or two of LoVett and Ellison jumps ship you don't think the pressure will be on? Maybe it won't be, and isn't that something that concerns you?

What is the coaching staff supposed to do if Lovett wants to leave? How is that going to be on them? From the looks of things the kid hasn't stayed at any school for more then year since middle school. Win and loses come down on Mullin and he will have to answer for that after next season if we don't see a big jump but the transfer thing I don't buy.

If you keep losing kids that you had counted on to be key parts of your team, you are then constantly starting over. Imagine if Norm Roberts had Cedric Jackson to run the point in 2007-2008? If you can't maintain continuity in your program, you can't establish your program. What it really comes down is whether or not talented players are running from Mullin because of Mullin or because when things get hard, they just give up. LoVett didn't jump around because he wanted to. His father took responsibility for that. Would this be his fault, too?

Lovett flirted with leaving last year before he even played a game, I think that says a lot. He is a good players but maybe he is one those guy who just isn't happy in one place for too long. Sima is the only guy who has transferred and no one seemed that upset about it. If 3 rotation players leaver after the season as some have said then yea you can place a lot of that blame on Mullin because obviously you have a group of guys who aren't happy with the program but Lovett leaving as a reason to cut bait with Mullin? Absurd.

And if there is any truth to the rumor it is not about unhappiness but rather the desire to get paid to play basketball. Chris Mullin is not allowed to pay him. Only John Calipari can pay college kids to play basketball.