Seth Davis SI SJU Opinion

And Mattingly even spent several seasons as hitting coach.

Seems Mullin is adapting and making adjustments, but just not confident if moving quick enough or focusing heavily on the most critical ones.

He's here so might as well accept it and give him the season to see if progess.

Getting frustrated beyond typical fan will not serve any of us any good.

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on December 14, 2016, 11:59:59 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on December 14, 2016, 08:33:32 PM

When Mullin became head coach of this program Jordan And Obekpa couldn't meet the new program standards.  Sampson decided to decommit leaving the program with next to nothing. 

We gotta give Mullin time.  The staff is getting players and this roster is one of the most talented in years.  These kids are still learning how to play together and learning what it takes to win at this level. 

I'd rather see this out for 2-3 more years and see where we stand instead of canning Mullin and starting over with a more experienced coach.  There is no guarantee the next staff can get the tyoe of players this staff has already recruited here.  I think current staff continue to get better players all while learning from their in game coaching deficiencies.

Lavin had Dunlap coach his freshmen in his 2nd year as he was out with cancer, Dunlap was a great x and o's coach.
wtf does Mullin have? Jean.   You can't compare the 2.

They are the second youngest team with a 2nd year coach (not just on SJU but ever.), so what can you expect to happen?
Only thing i want this year is for Mullin in the last month to improve his in game coaching/ halftime adjustments/ and substitutions. If he does then we'll feel better for 17/18.

Next year I'm expecting atleast the NIT.
Everyone from this year will be either a junior or sophmore, will have Simon and Clark on the court. and I'm praying Zach Brown can play.

If they can't get to atleast the NIT with that talent, then yeah start worrying about Mullin as coach.
Yeah the NIT is probably going light on him.

But this isn't the year to do so. Yeah, I know saying next year all the time F'ING sucks, but wtf can anyone do?
The situation is what it is.

We all understand that they're young, but criticism of Chris Mullin is fair. He has to show a clear example of progress, or the University should move on. And for the love of God can we please hire a coach that can teach?

Does the next guy get 15 months to return us to days of glory? And the next guy and the guy after that?

What is progress exactly? Is recruiting what looks like what might be the best back court in 50 years progress? Is recruiting the best shooting team in school history progress?  Is recruiting good players who don't cold cock opposing players and end up in prison progress? Or is progress merely measured by beating Delaware State progress? Because the former seems to me more important than the latter, as frustrating as the latter is.

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 12:36:27 AM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on December 14, 2016, 11:59:59 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on December 14, 2016, 08:33:32 PM

When Mullin became head coach of this program Jordan And Obekpa couldn't meet the new program standards.  Sampson decided to decommit leaving the program with next to nothing. 

We gotta give Mullin time.  The staff is getting players and this roster is one of the most talented in years.  These kids are still learning how to play together and learning what it takes to win at this level. 

I'd rather see this out for 2-3 more years and see where we stand instead of canning Mullin and starting over with a more experienced coach.  There is no guarantee the next staff can get the tyoe of players this staff has already recruited here.  I think current staff continue to get better players all while learning from their in game coaching deficiencies.

Lavin had Dunlap coach his freshmen in his 2nd year as he was out with cancer, Dunlap was a great x and o's coach.
wtf does Mullin have? Jean.   You can't compare the 2.

They are the second youngest team with a 2nd year coach (not just on SJU but ever.), so what can you expect to happen?
Only thing i want this year is for Mullin in the last month to improve his in game coaching/ halftime adjustments/ and substitutions. If he does then we'll feel better for 17/18.

Next year I'm expecting atleast the NIT.
Everyone from this year will be either a junior or sophmore, will have Simon and Clark on the court. and I'm praying Zach Brown can play.

If they can't get to atleast the NIT with that talent, then yeah start worrying about Mullin as coach.
Yeah the NIT is probably going light on him.

But this isn't the year to do so. Yeah, I know saying next year all the time F'ING sucks, but wtf can anyone do?
The situation is what it is.

We all understand that they're young, but criticism of Chris Mullin is fair. He has to show a clear example of progress, or the University should move on. And for the love of God can we please hire a coach that can teach?

Does the next guy get 15 months to return us to days of glory? And the next guy and the guy after that?

What is progress exactly? Is recruiting what looks like what might be the best back court in 50 years progress? Is recruiting the best shooting team in school history progress?  Is recruiting good players who don't cold cock opposing players and end up in prison progress? Or is progress merely measured by beating Delaware State progress? Because the former seems to me more important than the latter, as frustrating as the latter is.

To me, clear progress is improvement. The players have to improve, and the team has to come together and play like a unit. Right now, it looks as if Mullin isn't doing anything at all. Is it unfair to assume that? Maybe, but the Jeff Goodmans out there seem justified w their criticism.

Personally I was against this hire. This program needed an experienced coach. Now we have a coach that we have to hope will learn how to coach.

If...and it's a big if...Mullin doesn't succeed, they the expectations have to be lowered.

Right now, we're just another NYC/area college basketball team.  Put us down with Hofstra, Stony Brook, LIU, Iona, Fordham and the like.  If Mullin can't put us in the national picture, we have to accept where we are and let it go. We're a mid major school in a major conference.

It's less frustrating to realize this than to accept beat downs by the perennial big time schools as business as usual. 

Quote from: Foad on December 15, 2016, 07:26:16 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 12:36:27 AM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on December 14, 2016, 11:59:59 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on December 14, 2016, 08:33:32 PM

When Mullin became head coach of this program Jordan And Obekpa couldn't meet the new program standards.  Sampson decided to decommit leaving the program with next to nothing. 

We gotta give Mullin time.  The staff is getting players and this roster is one of the most talented in years.  These kids are still learning how to play together and learning what it takes to win at this level. 

I'd rather see this out for 2-3 more years and see where we stand instead of canning Mullin and starting over with a more experienced coach.  There is no guarantee the next staff can get the tyoe of players this staff has already recruited here.  I think current staff continue to get better players all while learning from their in game coaching deficiencies.

Lavin had Dunlap coach his freshmen in his 2nd year as he was out with cancer, Dunlap was a great x and o's coach.
wtf does Mullin have? Jean.   You can't compare the 2.

They are the second youngest team with a 2nd year coach (not just on SJU but ever.), so what can you expect to happen?
Only thing i want this year is for Mullin in the last month to improve his in game coaching/ halftime adjustments/ and substitutions. If he does then we'll feel better for 17/18.

Next year I'm expecting atleast the NIT.
Everyone from this year will be either a junior or sophmore, will have Simon and Clark on the court. and I'm praying Zach Brown can play.

If they can't get to atleast the NIT with that talent, then yeah start worrying about Mullin as coach.
Yeah the NIT is probably going light on him.

But this isn't the year to do so. Yeah, I know saying next year all the time F'ING sucks, but wtf can anyone do?
The situation is what it is.

We all understand that they're young, but criticism of Chris Mullin is fair. He has to show a clear example of progress, or the University should move on. And for the love of God can we please hire a coach that can teach?

Does the next guy get 15 months to return us to days of glory? And the next guy and the guy after that?

What is progress exactly? Is recruiting what looks like what might be the best back court in 50 years progress? Is recruiting the best shooting team in school history progress?  Is recruiting good players who don't cold cock opposing players and end up in prison progress? Or is progress merely measured by beating Delaware State progress? Because the former seems to me more important than the latter, as frustrating as the latter is.

To me, clear progress is improvement. The players have to improve, and the team has to come together and play like a unit. Right now, it looks as if Mullin isn't doing anything at all. Is it unfair to assume that? Maybe, but the Jeff Goodmans out there seem justified w their criticism.

Personally I was against this hire. This program needed an experienced coach. Now we have a coach that we have to hope will learn how to coach.

But he was a great player in the early-mid 80's. And him and Mitch Richmond must be the only pair of HOF players as coaches in the country. So this has to count for something. And boy can they recruit 

In all seriousness, let's see how much the team gels by Feb and March. This will speak volumes about Mullin's coaching ability. I have serious doubts but will reserve judgement until then.

If...and it's a big if...Mullin doesn't succeed, they the expectations have to be lowered.

Right now, we're just another NYC/area college basketball team.  Put us down with Hofstra, Stony Brook, LIU, Iona, Fordham and the like.  If Mullin can't put us in the national picture, we have to accept where we are and let it go. We're a mid major school in a major conference.

It's less frustrating to realize this than to accept beat downs by the perennial big time schools as business as usual.

Not necessarily. Mullin doesn't define the future of SJU basketball as much some like to think. If he doesn't work out, then you find a true experienced coach and maybe he has more success here. That may have been a better hire in the first place.

Quote from: newsman13 on December 15, 2016, 10:09:27 AM

If...and it's a big if...Mullin doesn't succeed, they the expectations have to be lowered.

Right now, we're just another NYC/area college basketball team.  Put us down with Hofstra, Stony Brook, LIU, Iona, Fordham and the like.  If Mullin can't put us in the national picture, we have to accept where we are and let it go. We're a mid major school in a major conference.

It's less frustrating to realize this than to accept beat downs by the perennial big time schools as business as usual.

Not necessarily. Mullin doesn't define the future of SJU basketball as much some like to think. If he doesn't work out, then you find a true experienced coach and maybe he has more success here. That may have been a better hire in the first place.

What experienced coach??? Tim Welch...Mihalic...Cluess...Bobby Knight?  Lavin was the gold standard and somehow that became star crossed.  Mullin was a home run post Lavin.  Everyone else is a bunt single.

Quote from: Johnny23 on December 15, 2016, 10:17:02 AM

Quote from: newsman13 on December 15, 2016, 10:09:27 AM

If...and it's a big if...Mullin doesn't succeed, they the expectations have to be lowered.

Right now, we're just another NYC/area college basketball team.  Put us down with Hofstra, Stony Brook, LIU, Iona, Fordham and the like.  If Mullin can't put us in the national picture, we have to accept where we are and let it go. We're a mid major school in a major conference.

It's less frustrating to realize this than to accept beat downs by the perennial big time schools as business as usual.

Not necessarily. Mullin doesn't define the future of SJU basketball as much some like to think. If he doesn't work out, then you find a true experienced coach and maybe he has more success here. That may have been a better hire in the first place.

What experienced coach??? Tim Welch...Mihalic...Cluess...Bobby Knight?  Lavin was the gold standard and somehow that became star crossed.  Mullin was a home run post Lavin.  Everyone else is a bunt single.

If Lavin was the gold standard then we're setting the bar way too low. Lavin was a crappy in-game coach and player development guy and that never changed. Great recruiter and program salesman and that's it.

One of the problems is that SJU only targets a small list of coaches and usually in the Northeast mostly. I would give a guy like Gregg Marshall a blank check and he would turn this program into a contender in two years. But SJU for some reason only targets guys from a small pool of prospective candidates. As Seth mentioned in this article recruiting is now a national and international game. Sure it's nice to have a guy with local recruiting roots but not a must to build a winning program.

I would give a guy like Gregg Marshall a blank check 

Greg Marshall earns 3 and a half million a year, in Kansas. Do you see SJU shelling out 5 or 6 million a year for him?

Quote from: Johnny23 on December 15, 2016, 10:44:38 AM

I would give a guy like Gregg Marshall a blank check 

Greg Marshall earns 3 and a half million a year, in Kansas. Do you see SJU shelling out 5 or 6 million a year for him?

I certainly don't, but there are choices. Did they even ask Danny Hurley?

Quote from: newsman13 on December 15, 2016, 10:09:27 AM

If...and it's a big if...Mullin doesn't succeed, they the expectations have to be lowered.

Right now, we're just another NYC/area college basketball team.  Put us down with Hofstra, Stony Brook, LIU, Iona, Fordham and the like.  If Mullin can't put us in the national picture, we have to accept where we are and let it go. We're a mid major school in a major conference.

It's less frustrating to realize this than to accept beat downs by the perennial big time schools as business as usual.

Not necessarily. Mullin doesn't define the future of SJU basketball as much some like to think. If he doesn't work out, then you find a true experienced coach and maybe he has more success here. That may have been a better hire in the first place.

Mullin defines our past.

Quote from: Johnny23 on December 15, 2016, 10:44:38 AM

I would give a guy like Gregg Marshall a blank check 

Greg Marshall earns 3 and a half million a year, in Kansas. Do you see SJU shelling out 5 or 6 million a year for him?

Plenty of much better schools that could pay him a ton more than we can including UCLA wanted him and he turned them down. He is waiting for a specific job somewhere in the southeast probably. Also, he built up Wichita to be so strong that going from Wichita to St. John's is a big step down

To me, clear progress is improvement. The players have to improve, and the team has to come together and play like a unit. Right now, it looks as if Mullin isn't doing anything at all. Is it unfair to assume that? Maybe, but the Jeff Goodmans out there seem justified w their criticism.

Personally I was against this hire. This program needed an experienced coach. Now we have a coach that we have to hope will learn how to coach.

This team has three freshmen, so there's no benchmark for improvement. Three sophs, two of whom are better this year than last, although that's not saying much, and Yawke, who seems to have regressed. Two juniors - Ahmed you can't tell about and Alibegowitch is hopeless. And a senior with no shoulder bones. The three best players are all new: they've played 30 D1 games cumulatively and 7 games together. I don't see how anyone could have expected them to have gelled by this point. If they're 3 and 8 this time next year that's a different story. Do you think they'll be 3 and 8 this time next year?

What I see is about the best shooting team I can remember. I see - when's it's working right - ball movement that we haven't seen since Artest and Barkeley were here. I see an offensive system that's designed to score points in bunches. That to me is progress. Are things perfect, obviously not. They need a skilled big man - if they had one this'd be an entirely different team. And obviously the defense is atrocious, but most underclassmen suck at playing defense - they never had to play it before.

Is Mullin learning on the job? I think he is. That's progress too. And it's much better than someone like Lavin who thought he knew everything and so consequently learned nothing.

PS Jeff Goodman is an imbecile.

Quote from: Foad on December 15, 2016, 11:38:11 AM

Quote from: Johnny23 on December 15, 2016, 10:44:38 AM

I would give a guy like Gregg Marshall a blank check 

Greg Marshall earns 3 and a half million a year, in Kansas. Do you see SJU shelling out 5 or 6 million a year for him?

I certainly don't, but there are choices. Did they even ask Danny Hurley?

I don't know who they asked or didn't. but it's a sign of how delusional the SJ fan base is that they think Greg Marshall's going to leave Wichita to come to the Bermuda trial of coaching careers.

Quote from: Foad on December 15, 2016, 11:38:11 AM

Quote from: Johnny23 on December 15, 2016, 10:44:38 AM

I would give a guy like Gregg Marshall a blank check 

Greg Marshall earns 3 and a half million a year, in Kansas. Do you see SJU shelling out 5 or 6 million a year for him?

I certainly don't, but there are choices. Did they even ask Danny Hurley?

Ready and willing

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 11:52:48 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 15, 2016, 11:38:11 AM

Quote from: Johnny23 on December 15, 2016, 10:44:38 AM

I would give a guy like Gregg Marshall a blank check 

Greg Marshall earns 3 and a half million a year, in Kansas. Do you see SJU shelling out 5 or 6 million a year for him?

I certainly don't, but there are choices. Did they even ask Danny Hurley?

Ready and willing

Of course he was willing. Before this year he was 62-64 at Rhode Island including 22-39 his first two years. He was just happy someone would talk to him.

The good thing we have going for us when we hire another coach (whenever that is) is that we play in a great city, in a great conference and we have a historically good program even though the last 15 years have been more bad then good. There will be talented coaches who will want to come here because they see all the positives and think they can be the guy to turn this around. I don't see any big name coach leaving a top 25 program no but for an up and coming coach this will be an attractive job.

The good thing we have going for us when we hire another coach (whenever that is) is that we play in a great city, in a great conference and we have a historically good program even though the last 15 years have been more bad then good. There will be talented coaches who will want to come here because they see all the positives and think they can be the guy to turn this around. I don't see any big name coach leaving a top 25 program no but for an up and coming coach this will be an attractive job.

People gave Lavin shit for living in Soho. Really, can you blame him?

Quote from: Wods317 on December 15, 2016, 12:22:36 PM

The good thing we have going for us when we hire another coach (whenever that is) is that we play in a great city, in a great conference and we have a historically good program even though the last 15 years have been more bad then good. There will be talented coaches who will want to come here because they see all the positives and think they can be the guy to turn this around. I don't see any big name coach leaving a top 25 program no but for an up and coming coach this will be an attractive job.

People gave Lavin shit for living in Soho. Really, can you blame him?

Not even sure what you're talking about but thanks. A good mid major coach would love to coach in the one of the best conferences in the country especially in NY/NJ because of the local talent, not much to debate there. Talking about young mid major coaches not Coach K here.

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 01:07:56 PM

Quote from: Wods317 on December 15, 2016, 12:22:36 PM

The good thing we have going for us when we hire another coach (whenever that is) is that we play in a great city, in a great conference and we have a historically good program even though the last 15 years have been more bad then good. There will be talented coaches who will want to come here because they see all the positives and think they can be the guy to turn this around. I don't see any big name coach leaving a top 25 program no but for an up and coming coach this will be an attractive job.

People gave Lavin shit for living in Soho. Really, can you blame him?

Not even sure what you're talking about but thanks. A good mid major coach would love to coach in the one of the best conferences in the country especially in NY/NJ because of the local talent, not much to debate there. Talking about young mid major coaches not Coach K here.

Insert eyeball roll here.