Butler

Quote from: Towerofshred on December 30, 2016, 11:15:52 AM

Quote from: desco80 on December 30, 2016, 11:03:35 AM

A lot of you guys are finding excuses to avoid the obvious:
Marcus Lovett is a pretty good basketball player.  If he wasn't being punished for something, he would be starting. 
Also, if he was certain to return next season a starting PG wouldn't be thinking of  coming here.

Maybe his infraction was a minor one.  And maybe he decides to return next season.  But don't ignore the smoke.

If he were to transfer, he would lose a year of eligibility (redshirt frosh).
For that reason alone, I would think that he is not transferring.

Again the rumor-I HAVE NO IDEA IF IT HAS ANY MERIT-but the rumor is he wants to start to get paid for playing basketball sooner rather than later. Somewhere.

Harrison openly said he was going to be a one and done and then a two and done. Reality had other plans as it will for Lovett. He's not even close to ready to challenge young former first rounders like Jimmer Fredette,  Johnny Flynn, and Shane Larkin for limited roster spots internationally. How would he sells seats? "Come see the former second best freshman guard for a St. John's team that finished 8th place in a ten team league."

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 11:21:13 AM

Quote from: Towerofshred on December 30, 2016, 11:15:52 AM

Quote from: desco80 on December 30, 2016, 11:03:35 AM

A lot of you guys are finding excuses to avoid the obvious:
Marcus Lovett is a pretty good basketball player.  If he wasn't being punished for something, he would be starting. 
Also, if he was certain to return next season a starting PG wouldn't be thinking of  coming here.

Maybe his infraction was a minor one.  And maybe he decides to return next season.  But don't ignore the smoke.

If he were to transfer, he would lose a year of eligibility (redshirt frosh).
For that reason alone, I would think that he is not transferring.

Again the rumor-I HAVE NO IDEA IF IT HAS ANY MERIT-but the rumor is he wants to start to get paid for playing basketball sooner rather than later. Somewhere.

Harrison openly said he was going to be a one and done and then a two and done. Reality had other plans as it will for Lovett. He's not even close to ready to challenge young former first rounders like Jimmer Fredette,  Johnny Flynn, and Shane Larkin for limited roster spots internationally. How would he sells seats? "Come see the former second best freshman guard for a St. John's team that finished 8th place in a ten team league."

I didn't start the rumor.Just was clearing up the one floating about is about him leaving to get paid not transfer.

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 11:21:13 AM

Quote from: Towerofshred on December 30, 2016, 11:15:52 AM

Quote from: desco80 on December 30, 2016, 11:03:35 AM

A lot of you guys are finding excuses to avoid the obvious:
Marcus Lovett is a pretty good basketball player.  If he wasn't being punished for something, he would be starting. 
Also, if he was certain to return next season a starting PG wouldn't be thinking of  coming here.

Maybe his infraction was a minor one.  And maybe he decides to return next season.  But don't ignore the smoke.

If he were to transfer, he would lose a year of eligibility (redshirt frosh).
For that reason alone, I would think that he is not transferring.

Again the rumor-I HAVE NO IDEA IF IT HAS ANY MERIT-but the rumor is he wants to start to get paid for playing basketball sooner rather than later. Somewhere.

Harrison openly said he was going to be a one and done and then a two and done. Reality had other plans as it will for Lovett. He's not even close to ready to challenge young former first rounders like Jimmer Fredette,  Johnny Flynn, and Shane Larkin for limited roster spots internationally. How would he sells seats? "Come see the former second best freshman guard for a St. John's team that finished 8th place in a ten team league."

I think by the end of this year he could be good enough to crack a foreign roster. I think if he steadily improves his play (esp. varying pace, consistent court vision) he has a shot at the NBA.

A lot of you guys are finding excuses to avoid the obvious:
Marcus Lovett is a pretty good basketball player.  If he wasn't being punished for something, he would be starting. 
Also, if he was certain to return next season a starting PG wouldn't be thinking of  coming here.

Maybe his infraction was a minor one.  And maybe he decides to return next season.  But don't ignore the smoke. 

Who is the starting PG you speak of? Certainly not McMurray, who was listed by every scouting service as a SG, takes 6.7 threes a game, says his best attribute is his shooting ability, and was tied for third with a 6-6 forward for third on USF for assists at just 2.0 per game.

As for Lovett, I like him coming off the bench for now. It lets him see we can be good without him dominating the ball and it lets our guys move the ball and get into the offense instead of standing around and watching him dribble through double-teams and taking too many shots. When he comes in, he provides energy and he can just fit in instead of forcing everyone to play his way. I don't think it's permanent.

Quote from: desco80 on December 30, 2016, 11:03:35 AM

A lot of you guys are finding excuses to avoid the obvious:
Marcus Lovett is a pretty good basketball player.  If he wasn't being punished for something, he would be starting. 
Also, if he was certain to return next season a starting PG wouldn't be thinking of  coming here.

Maybe his infraction was a minor one.  And maybe he decides to return next season.  But don't ignore the smoke. 

Who is the starting PG you speak of? Certainly not McMurray, who was listed by every scouting service as a SG, takes 6.7 threes a game, says his best attribute is his shooting ability, and was tied for third with a 6-6 forward for third on USF for assists at just 2.0 per game.

As for Lovett, I like him coming off the bench for now. It lets him see we can be good without him dominating the ball and it lets our guys move the ball and get into the offense instead of standing around and watching him dribble through double-teams and taking too many shots. When he comes in, he provides energy and he can just fit in instead of forcing everyone to play his way. I don't think it's permanent.

As many people have told you over and over again, McMurray had been playing PG for USF in his one year and 3 games there. At 6-0, it's best for his pro career for him to be a P which you better believe he is aware of

Quote from: Marillac on December 30, 2016, 11:51:05 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 11:21:13 AM

Quote from: Towerofshred on December 30, 2016, 11:15:52 AM

Quote from: desco80 on December 30, 2016, 11:03:35 AM

A lot of you guys are finding excuses to avoid the obvious:
Marcus Lovett is a pretty good basketball player.  If he wasn't being punished for something, he would be starting. 
Also, if he was certain to return next season a starting PG wouldn't be thinking of  coming here.

Maybe his infraction was a minor one.  And maybe he decides to return next season.  But don't ignore the smoke.

If he were to transfer, he would lose a year of eligibility (redshirt frosh).
For that reason alone, I would think that he is not transferring.

Again the rumor-I HAVE NO IDEA IF IT HAS ANY MERIT-but the rumor is he wants to start to get paid for playing basketball sooner rather than later. Somewhere.

Harrison openly said he was going to be a one and done and then a two and done. Reality had other plans as it will for Lovett. He's not even close to ready to challenge young former first rounders like Jimmer Fredette,  Johnny Flynn, and Shane Larkin for limited roster spots internationally. How would he sells seats? "Come see the former second best freshman guard for a St. John's team that finished 8th place in a ten team league."

I didn't start the rumor.Just was clearing up the one floating about is about him leaving to get paid not transfer.

I'm just reminding the board of our recent history. Harrison even had "one and done" on his twitter description as a freshman, so it was more than a rumor. It's not even worth bringing up because we need guys who want to be here to be successful. As long as ponds stay, we'll be fine.

No offense to our young phenoms, but they are not good enough to go in the 1st round yet so they'll be here for at least 3 years.

Quote from: survivedc on December 30, 2016, 11:07:43 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 11:01:33 AM

Quote from: survivedc on December 30, 2016, 10:50:51 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 09:58:09 AM

Quote from: redmen4life on December 30, 2016, 12:54:25 AM

Quote from: KJ_Django on December 30, 2016, 12:42:29 AM

I was at the game and there was an odd exchange from Lovett and Mullin that worried me tonight.
Lovett got taken out and Mullin tried to talk to him or coach him up and Lovett just completely brushed him off and even moved Mullin's hands away from him and just sat down on the bench.

Could of just been regular frustration and nothing to make a note of but it was definitely an odd exchange and Mullin as soon as moved on from it the minute Lovett sat down as if it was a regular occurrence.

I dont want to start rumors or start speculating but I'm genuinely curious if anyone knows of some growing tension between Lovett and Mullin and/or coaching staff and if that has anything to do with the annoying rumors and chatter that he has one foot out the door.

I saw it too. Def caught my attention.

That said Mullin seems to have a habit of putting his hands on the player's chest as they come back to the bench. I've never like that

Something going on or else he would have started. He looked happy we won though. Hope he stays

I don't know about all that. The defensive matchups have been noted and I also think it allowed him to fit his game into the offensive flow that had been created. He's obviously the fastest dude on the floor but he can't just run past the other team every possession. They're learning that.

Chris Mullin does not think team is better with Ellison instead of Lovett. Minor team thing and Lovett looked happy at the end. Have to give Mullin credit for not making big deal out small punishment as some coaches(Lavin) would have done.

At first it seemed like you were speculating, now you are presenting it as a fact. Which is it?

I was speculating but have since heard Marcus would fit in with the Jet D-Line as far as his attendance for various things.
Not a big deal but as Desco and I both pointed out those of you who think Chris Mullin would start anyone else on this team instead of Marcus Lovett and or Ponds for basketball reasons is pretty ridiculous.

The Pace fan always causing trouble. Who is your source?

Quote from: desco80 on December 30, 2016, 11:03:35 AM

A lot of you guys are finding excuses to avoid the obvious:
Marcus Lovett is a pretty good basketball player.  If he wasn't being punished for something, he would be starting. 
Also, if he was certain to return next season a starting PG wouldn't be thinking of  coming here.

Maybe his infraction was a minor one.  And maybe he decides to return next season.  But don't ignore the smoke. 

Who is the starting PG you speak of? Certainly not McMurray, who was listed by every scouting service as a SG, takes 6.7 threes a game, says his best attribute is his shooting ability, and was tied for third with a 6-6 forward for third on USF for assists at just 2.0 per game.

As for Lovett, I like him coming off the bench for now. It lets him see we can be good without him dominating the ball and it lets our guys move the ball and get into the offense instead of standing around and watching him dribble through double-teams and taking too many shots. When he comes in, he provides energy and he can just fit in instead of forcing everyone to play his way. I don't think it's permanent.

Too much Ellison and my nice new TV would be in danger. Lovett starts for all basketball reasons. Didn't he start the 2nd half

Lovett did not start the 2nd half.  Came in about 1 min 30 sec in directly from locker room, took off shirt and in during a stop in play. 

I enjoyed last night.  As someone commented the atmosphere was like the '80's.  Bashir amazes with his twists and turns-something like The Truth (but not at the level of Walter).  Marcus was game last night despite the injury which limited him.

Butler a fun team to watch as you don't have a superstar but good team ball. 

Three point defense must have been highlighted by both coaches as 2 teams that shoot the three well were horrid last night.  Our Free throw shooting is really improved and probably the difference last night.

Loved Ponds but what him to get less minutes so he is not worn out in February (why we need Rico to heal).  D Will is always fun to watch--gives good effort.

First Butler goes down to us and then their plane almost goes down...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18376358/butler-bulldogs-team-plane-loses-cabin-pressure-coach-says-was-scary-had-guys-crying

Rough night for those guys.

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 11:15:33 AM

Quote from: survivedc on December 30, 2016, 11:07:43 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 11:01:33 AM

Quote from: survivedc on December 30, 2016, 10:50:51 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 09:58:09 AM

Quote from: redmen4life on December 30, 2016, 12:54:25 AM

Quote from: KJ_Django on December 30, 2016, 12:42:29 AM

I was at the game and there was an odd exchange from Lovett and Mullin that worried me tonight.
Lovett got taken out and Mullin tried to talk to him or coach him up and Lovett just completely brushed him off and even moved Mullin's hands away from him and just sat down on the bench.

Could of just been regular frustration and nothing to make a note of but it was definitely an odd exchange and Mullin as soon as moved on from it the minute Lovett sat down as if it was a regular occurrence.

I dont want to start rumors or start speculating but I'm genuinely curious if anyone knows of some growing tension between Lovett and Mullin and/or coaching staff and if that has anything to do with the annoying rumors and chatter that he has one foot out the door.

I saw it too. Def caught my attention.

That said Mullin seems to have a habit of putting his hands on the player's chest as they come back to the bench. I've never like that

Something going on or else he would have started. He looked happy we won though. Hope he stays

I don't know about all that. The defensive matchups have been noted and I also think it allowed him to fit his game into the offensive flow that had been created. He's obviously the fastest dude on the floor but he can't just run past the other team every possession. They're learning that.

Chris Mullin does not think team is better with Ellison instead of Lovett. Minor team thing and Lovett looked happy at the end. Have to give Mullin credit for not making big deal out small punishment as some coaches(Lavin) would have done.

At first it seemed like you were speculating, now you are presenting it as a fact. Which is it?

I was speculating but have since heard Marcus would fit in with the Jet D-Line as far as his attendance for various things.
Not a big deal but as Desco and I both pointed out those of you who think Chris Mullin would start anyone else on this team instead of Marcus Lovett and or Ponds for basketball reasons is pretty ridiculous.

The Pace fan always causing trouble. Who is your source?

Not you so might be credible

Lovett did not start the 2nd half.  Came in about 1 min 30 sec in directly from locker room, took off shirt and in during a stop in play. 

Obviously he was being penalized for his halftime behavior. It probably had nothing to do with the staff trying to prevent a young player and a young team from falling into bad habits and not playing team-oriented basketball.

Quote from: RedStormNC on December 30, 2016, 12:32:57 PM

Lovett did not start the 2nd half.  Came in about 1 min 30 sec in directly from locker room, took off shirt and in during a stop in play. 

Obviously he was being penalized for his halftime behavior. It probably had nothing to do with the staff trying to prevent a young player and a young team from falling into bad habits and not playing team-oriented basketball.

Would bet everything I have that it was due to some minor team infraction.
This is actually a better option than Chris Mullin is stupid. I don't believe that so I am pretty comfortable that it was something minor and we move forward.

Grades come out yet?

Quote from: Marillac on December 30, 2016, 12:44:31 PM

Quote from: RedStormNC on December 30, 2016, 12:32:57 PM

Lovett did not start the 2nd half.  Came in about 1 min 30 sec in directly from locker room, took off shirt and in during a stop in play. 

Obviously he was being penalized for his halftime behavior. It probably had nothing to do with the staff trying to prevent a young player and a young team from falling into bad habits and not playing team-oriented basketball.

Would bet everything I have that it was due to some minor team infraction.
This is actually a better option than Chris Mullin is stupid. I don't believe that so I am pretty comfortable that it was something minor and we move forward.

Not sure what you mean by stupid...Lovett was critical to winning the game overall but the rest of the team played fine without him, especially to start the game.

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 01:04:51 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 30, 2016, 12:44:31 PM

Quote from: RedStormNC on December 30, 2016, 12:32:57 PM

Lovett did not start the 2nd half.  Came in about 1 min 30 sec in directly from locker room, took off shirt and in during a stop in play. 

Obviously he was being penalized for his halftime behavior. It probably had nothing to do with the staff trying to prevent a young player and a young team from falling into bad habits and not playing team-oriented basketball.

Would bet everything I have that it was due to some minor team infraction.
This is actually a better option than Chris Mullin is stupid. I don't believe that so I am pretty comfortable that it was something minor and we move forward.

Not sure what you mean by stupid...Lovett was critical to winning the game overall but the rest of the team played fine without him, especially to start the game.

Chris Mullin, nor really anyone that has ever watched a basketball game at any level would think THIS team is better off w/o Lovett playing as much as humanly possible or that there are 5 other guys ON THIS TEAM better than him under any circumstance.

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2016, 01:04:51 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 30, 2016, 12:44:31 PM

Quote from: RedStormNC on December 30, 2016, 12:32:57 PM

Lovett did not start the 2nd half.  Came in about 1 min 30 sec in directly from locker room, took off shirt and in during a stop in play. 

Obviously he was being penalized for his halftime behavior. It probably had nothing to do with the staff trying to prevent a young player and a young team from falling into bad habits and not playing team-oriented basketball.

Would bet everything I have that it was due to some minor team infraction.
This is actually a better option than Chris Mullin is stupid. I don't believe that so I am pretty comfortable that it was something minor and we move forward.

Not sure what you mean by stupid...Lovett was critical to winning the game overall but the rest of the team played fine without him, especially to start the game.

Ellison is a really promising player at the 3 position. However, at point guard, he is poor on his very best day. There is no coach anywhere that would start him at the point over Lovett, who is an actual point guard.

For those wondering about Lovett not starting last night, it was mentioned a few times that he pulled a muscle in practice during the week, which is why he did not start.  No reason to start him second half, when the team was playing well going into the break.  Most coaches come out second half the way they started, unless there was some kind of suspension and kid does not play entire 1st half or a drastic change needed to be made to get back in game.

He did almost play 30 minutes, so injury could not of been severe, and more importantly was in the game during crunch time.  That is what matters most.  I don't know if rumors are true of him leaving, but for now, there are no issues between him and Mullin.