Stop Bitching

ST John's fans are like Yankee fans w/o any of the success. The two most successful coaches post Louie are probably the two most hated ex coaches on these boards. Not that Lavin and Jarvis didn't give reason but just think about it for a second. Most of the hatred towards those two had little to do with on court stuff and now we have the greatest player in the school's history here, the face of the program and after a year and a half people are bitching more than ever. Is Mullin even a mediocre coach? I don't know yet. He is not off to a good start, but it has been LESS THAN 2 YEARS.

If this doesn't work out, who do you think we will hire Calipari? Pittino?
Maybe we hire one of the wildly unproven and thus far pretty unsuccessful Hurley brothers?
People turned on Mullin after a year, how long will a former Duke player or from all accounts his jackass younger brother be given?
Most likely we will hire some local mid major guy like Tim Cluess. Does that get anyone besides Bluto all hot and moist?

If Lovett leaves which now looks like it could be a real possibility and we stink next year, feel free to bitch. I think until then Chris Mullin probably deserves the benefit of the doubt. And if he fails ...well think of all the posts from Bluto defending Cluess for the next couple years. That ought to be fun

What makes you think Cluess would leave for St John's?

What makes you think Cluess would leave for St John's?

$$$ and prestige and alma mater to name a few.

ST John's fans are like Yankee fans w/o any of the success. The two most successful coaches post Louie are probably the two most hated ex coaches on these boards. Not that Lavin and Jarvis didn't give reason but just think about it for a second. Most of the hatred towards those two had little to do with on court stuff and now we have the greatest player in the school's history here, the face of the program and after a year and a half people are bitching more than ever. Is Mullin even a mediocre coach? I don't know yet. He is not off to a good start, but it has been LESS THAN 2 YEARS.

If this doesn't work out, who do you think we will hire Calipari? Pittino?
Maybe we hire one of the wildly unproven and thus far pretty unsuccessful Hurley brothers?
People turned on Mullin after a year, how long will a former Duke player or from all accounts his jackass younger brother be given?
Most likely we will hire some local mid major guy like Tim Cluess. Does that get anyone besides Bluto all hot and moist?

If Lovett leaves which now looks like it could be a real possibility and we stink next year, feel free to bitch. I think until then Chris Mullin probably deserves the benefit of the doubt. And if he fails ...well think of all the posts from Bluto defending Cluess for the next couple years. That ought to be fun

Excellent post.  All of these self-proclaimed "realists" are criticizing Mullin as if there is a better option waiting in the wings IF WE FIRE OUR GOLDEN BOY A MERE TWO YEARS INTO HIS COACHING CAREER.  We knew what we were getting into hiring someone whose never coached before.  There aren't usually excellent coaches lining up to coach for us, but there certainly wont be in the aftermath of us having no loyalty to our most successful former player. Everyone needs to chill out and hope Mullin can right the ship.  The alternative is far worse.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 28, 2016, 09:52:24 AM

What makes you think Cluess would leave for St John's?

$$$ and prestige and alma mater to name a few.

Could've had that at Hofstra, which is his alma mater

 Good post WASJU..... Only took a decade. 

Quote from: we are sju on December 28, 2016, 09:03:11 AM

ST John's fans are like Yankee fans w/o any of the success. The two most successful coaches post Louie are probably the two most hated ex coaches on these boards. Not that Lavin and Jarvis didn't give reason but just think about it for a second. Most of the hatred towards those two had little to do with on court stuff and now we have the greatest player in the school's history here, the face of the program and after a year and a half people are bitching more than ever. Is Mullin even a mediocre coach? I don't know yet. He is not off to a good start, but it has been LESS THAN 2 YEARS.

If this doesn't work out, who do you think we will hire Calipari? Pittino?
Maybe we hire one of the wildly unproven and thus far pretty unsuccessful Hurley brothers?
People turned on Mullin after a year, how long will a former Duke player or from all accounts his jackass younger brother be given?
Most likely we will hire some local mid major guy like Tim Cluess. Does that get anyone besides Bluto all hot and moist?

If Lovett leaves which now looks like it could be a real possibility and we stink next year, feel free to bitch. I think until then Chris Mullin probably deserves the benefit of the doubt. And if he fails ...well think of all the posts from Bluto defending Cluess for the next couple years. That ought to be fun

Excellent post.  All of these self-proclaimed "realists" are criticizing Mullin as if there is a better option waiting in the wings IF WE FIRE OUR GOLDEN BOY A MERE TWO YEARS INTO HIS COACHING CAREER.  We knew what we were getting into hiring someone whose never coached before.  There aren't usually excellent coaches lining up to coach for us, but there certainly wont be in the aftermath of us having no loyalty to our most successful former player. Everyone needs to chill out and hope Mullin can right the ship.  The alternative is far worse.

Firing Mullin would hurt this program on so many levels that it shouldn't even be considered for a minimum of 5 years. You have to let a coach get his first class to graduation IMO. Mullin started so late and with so little (only Jones and AA) that there was nothing that could be done done to win this season.

Even an experienced mastermind like Dunlap, who started with more talent, went 8-23 and 14-17 his first two years at Loyola Marymount. LMU is now 7-4 with three close losses to Uconn, Texas, and Boise St. by a combined 7 Pts. I think the staff will have learned enough by next year to adjust back to the college game and stand toe-toe with the coaches of this league. The value of experienced  upperclassmen should not be taken lightly.

The negativity is literally pointless at this juncture, and it only hurts our program.

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

Full disclosure, nothing could happen in the next how many years that would bring me to post fire Mullin. With that being said I think he lost a lot of good will with the fans with his sideline demeanor last year. I picked up on it pretty quickly and I am a Mullin guy. That is why I brought it up last year. Detached way he went about things last year shortened his goodwill leash by about a year I think.

Quote from: Tha Kid on December 28, 2016, 10:21:46 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 28, 2016, 09:03:11 AM

ST John's fans are like Yankee fans w/o any of the success. The two most successful coaches post Louie are probably the two most hated ex coaches on these boards. Not that Lavin and Jarvis didn't give reason but just think about it for a second. Most of the hatred towards those two had little to do with on court stuff and now we have the greatest player in the school's history here, the face of the program and after a year and a half people are bitching more than ever. Is Mullin even a mediocre coach? I don't know yet. He is not off to a good start, but it has been LESS THAN 2 YEARS.

If this doesn't work out, who do you think we will hire Calipari? Pittino?
Maybe we hire one of the wildly unproven and thus far pretty unsuccessful Hurley brothers?
People turned on Mullin after a year, how long will a former Duke player or from all accounts his jackass younger brother be given?
Most likely we will hire some local mid major guy like Tim Cluess. Does that get anyone besides Bluto all hot and moist?

If Lovett leaves which now looks like it could be a real possibility and we stink next year, feel free to bitch. I think until then Chris Mullin probably deserves the benefit of the doubt. And if he fails ...well think of all the posts from Bluto defending Cluess for the next couple years. That ought to be fun

Excellent post.  All of these self-proclaimed "realists" are criticizing Mullin as if there is a better option waiting in the wings IF WE FIRE OUR GOLDEN BOY A MERE TWO YEARS INTO HIS COACHING CAREER.  We knew what we were getting into hiring someone whose never coached before.  There aren't usually excellent coaches lining up to coach for us, but there certainly wont be in the aftermath of us having no loyalty to our most successful former player. Everyone needs to chill out and hope Mullin can right the ship.  The alternative is far worse.

Firing Mullin would hurt this program on so many levels that it shouldn't even be considered for a minimum of 5 years. You have to let a coach get his first class to graduation IMO. Mullin started so late and with so little (only Jones and AA) that there was nothing that could be done done to win this season.

Even an experienced mastermind like Dunlap, who started with more talent, went 8-23 and 14-17 his first two years at Loyola Marymount. LMU is now 7-4 with three close losses to Uconn, Texas, and Boise St. by a combined 7 Pts. I think the staff will have learned enough by next year to adjust back to the college game and stand toe-toe with the coaches of this league. The value of experienced  upperclassmen should not be taken lightly.

The negativity is literally pointless at this juncture, and it only hurts our program.

Very well said. I agree about graduating your first class has to be the minimum unless there is some type of scandal. Mullin and Co. are recruiting nicely. Let's give this time and then see what happens over the next few seasons. Patience is what we all need right now.

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

First of all if Lovett stays he starts. The rumors from what I can tell have more to do with his desire to be paid to play basketball somewhere and not any unhappiness. Based on his past he also seems to be a somewhat restless soul so the fact that he has been here two years...well maybe it is time.

A new thread calling for people to 'stop bitching'' leads to... more bitching. The board unfortunately has become unreadable.

A new thread calling for people to 'stop bitching'' leads to... more bitching. The board unfortunately has become unreadable.

Start another with some good news

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

Marco Baldi as usual. It's not even worth discussing since it makes absolutely no sense for the kid. He loses a year transferring anywhere, he gets all the freedom he wants here, he plays big minutes, and he plays on a big stage. If a kid in that situation wants to leave, then why would we want him to stay? We haven't lost a key player to transfer in a decade--and even that kid, Calhoun,  had a baby and heard the footsteps after being recruited over with Justin Burrell, DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and Sean Evans coming a few months later to join Mase Jr. -- who was already doubling his scoring and rebounding #s.

Quote from: survivedc on December 28, 2016, 11:25:12 AM

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

Marco Baldi as usual. It's not even worth discussing since it makes absolutely no sense for the kid. He loses a year transferring anywhere, he gets all the freedom he wants here, he plays big minutes, and he plays on a big stage. If a kid in that situation wants to leave, then why would we want him to stay? We haven't lost a key player to transfer in a decade--and even that kid, Calhoun,  had a baby and heard the footsteps after being recruited over with Justin Burrell, DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and Sean Evans coming a few months later to join Mase Jr. -- who was already doubling his scoring and rebounding #s.

I hated to see Larry Wright leave

Quote from: Marillac on December 28, 2016, 12:14:03 PM

Quote from: survivedc on December 28, 2016, 11:25:12 AM

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

Marco Baldi as usual. It's not even worth discussing since it makes absolutely no sense for the kid. He loses a year transferring anywhere, he gets all the freedom he wants here, he plays big minutes, and he plays on a big stage. If a kid in that situation wants to leave, then why would we want him to stay? We haven't lost a key player to transfer in a decade--and even that kid, Calhoun,  had a baby and heard the footsteps after being recruited over with Justin Burrell, DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and Sean Evans coming a few months later to join Mase Jr. -- who was already doubling his scoring and rebounding #s.

I hated to see Larry Wright leave

1. Berry leaving early
2. Artest leaving early
3. Cook leaving early
4. Wright transferring
Biggest player defections in school history

Quote from: survivedc on December 28, 2016, 11:25:12 AM

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

Marco Baldi as usual. It's not even worth discussing since it makes absolutely no sense for the kid. He loses a year transferring anywhere, he gets all the freedom he wants here, he plays big minutes, and he plays on a big stage. If a kid in that situation wants to leave, then why would we want him to stay? We haven't lost a key player to transfer in a decade--and even that kid, Calhoun,  had a baby and heard the footsteps after being recruited over with Justin Burrell, DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and Sean Evans coming a few months later to join Mase Jr. -- who was already doubling his scoring and rebounding #s.

It didn't start w Baldi.  It started as speculation w our interest in the 6 ft  S.Fl kid when we seemingly have Lovett,Ponds,Simon,Ellison, Mussini,Bash and Clark.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 28, 2016, 12:30:26 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 28, 2016, 12:14:03 PM

Quote from: survivedc on December 28, 2016, 11:25:12 AM

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

Marco Baldi as usual. It's not even worth discussing since it makes absolutely no sense for the kid. He loses a year transferring anywhere, he gets all the freedom he wants here, he plays big minutes, and he plays on a big stage. If a kid in that situation wants to leave, then why would we want him to stay? We haven't lost a key player to transfer in a decade--and even that kid, Calhoun,  had a baby and heard the footsteps after being recruited over with Justin Burrell, DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and Sean Evans coming a few months later to join Mase Jr. -- who was already doubling his scoring and rebounding #s.

I hated to see Larry Wright leave

1. Berry leaving early
2. Artest leaving early
3. Cook leaving early
4. Wright transferring
Biggest player defections in school history

Biggest defection was self-inflicted - when Lou pulled Gary Payton's scholarship a few minutes before he was about to announce that he was as choosing SJU.  Would have been a great understudy to MJ in 86-87 and eventually could have made a great NCAA run when the fab 4 (Sealy/Werdann/Sproling/Buchanan) were sophomores in 89-90, with JWill an the anchor.  Wonder who specifically called Lou to say they would be pushing their players away from SJU if Lou started recruiting across the country?

Quote from: we are sju on December 28, 2016, 12:48:58 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 28, 2016, 12:30:26 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 28, 2016, 12:14:03 PM

Quote from: survivedc on December 28, 2016, 11:25:12 AM

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

Marco Baldi as usual. It's not even worth discussing since it makes absolutely no sense for the kid. He loses a year transferring anywhere, he gets all the freedom he wants here, he plays big minutes, and he plays on a big stage. If a kid in that situation wants to leave, then why would we want him to stay? We haven't lost a key player to transfer in a decade--and even that kid, Calhoun,  had a baby and heard the footsteps after being recruited over with Justin Burrell, DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and Sean Evans coming a few months later to join Mase Jr. -- who was already doubling his scoring and rebounding #s.

I hated to see Larry Wright leave

1. Berry leaving early
2. Artest leaving early
3. Cook leaving early
4. Wright transferring
Biggest player defections in school history

Biggest defection was self-inflicted - when Lou pulled Gary Payton's scholarship a few minutes before he was about to announce that he was as choosing SJU.  Would have been a great understudy to MJ in 86-87 and eventually could have made a great NCAA run when the fab 4 (Sealy/Werdann/Sproling/Buchanan) were sophomores in 89-90, with JWill an the anchor.  Wonder who specifically called Lou to say they would be pushing their players away from SJU if Lou started recruiting across the country?

Probably no one since the 2 guards Lou recruited over Payton that year Elander Lewis and Marcus Broadnax were from Albany and Florida respectively.

Quote from: wpc77 on December 28, 2016, 01:09:22 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 28, 2016, 12:48:58 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 28, 2016, 12:30:26 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 28, 2016, 12:14:03 PM

Quote from: survivedc on December 28, 2016, 11:25:12 AM

Where did these Lovett leaving rumors start? At worst he will be a backup pg playing around 25min a game. More likely we will see a lot of 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups

Marco Baldi as usual. It's not even worth discussing since it makes absolutely no sense for the kid. He loses a year transferring anywhere, he gets all the freedom he wants here, he plays big minutes, and he plays on a big stage. If a kid in that situation wants to leave, then why would we want him to stay? We haven't lost a key player to transfer in a decade--and even that kid, Calhoun,  had a baby and heard the footsteps after being recruited over with Justin Burrell, DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and Sean Evans coming a few months later to join Mase Jr. -- who was already doubling his scoring and rebounding #s.

I hated to see Larry Wright leave

1. Berry leaving early
2. Artest leaving early
3. Cook leaving early
4. Wright transferring
Biggest player defections in school history

Biggest defection was self-inflicted - when Lou pulled Gary Payton's scholarship a few minutes before he was about to announce that he was as choosing SJU.  Would have been a great understudy to MJ in 86-87 and eventually could have made a great NCAA run when the fab 4 (Sealy/Werdann/Sproling/Buchanan) were sophomores in 89-90, with JWill an the anchor.  Wonder who specifically called Lou to say they would be pushing their players away from SJU if Lou started recruiting across the country?

Probably no one since the 2 guards Lou recruited over Payton that year Elander Lewis and Marcus Broadnax were from Albany and Florida respectively.

Doesn't mean it had to be a guard.   Might have been JWill (which would beg the question - why not jettison Lewis or Broadnax instead of Payton if Lou needed to keep JWill). Here's Payton's quote on the matter:

“My coach, Fred Noel, came over while I was at the podium and whispered in my ear ‘come here for a second’ and took me back into the office,” Payton said during a visit to the Hall of Fame in early August. “I picked up the phone and it was Lou Carnesecca, who was the coach at St. John’s at the time. He said he was very sorry, he could not take me, and he wasn’t going to offer me a scholarship because he had a guy from out east that he had to take.”

EDIT - and by "across the country" I meant past the Mississippi River.