Kyvon Davenport, F, Georgia Highlands CC

This is a guy who would likely be the 9th or 10th player on next year's squad, at most, and provide short term depth.  And it isn't even accounting for our ability to snag a grad transfer big for a one-year filler on the front line.  And you are hammering the recruiting?  The recruiting has been good in the short term.

Our frontcourt is awful. We are desperate for bodies. Owens and Yakwe cannot rebound at a BE level.

We don't need a big man to play major minutes? Who is going to do that for us? By my count, no one. I also think it we should cool it with all of the examples of how Mullin is doing a better job than Lavin. At least until he put together a winning season.

Mullin was a better player than Lavin. He's got em there.

Quote from: prjohnnies on February 09, 2017, 04:06:11 PM

This is a guy who would likely be the 9th or 10th player on next year's squad, at most, and provide short term depth.  And it isn't even accounting for our ability to snag a grad transfer big for a one-year filler on the front line.  And you are hammering the recruiting?  The recruiting has been good in the short term.

Our frontcourt is awful. We are desperate for bodies. Owens and Yakwe cannot rebound at a BE level.

Owens can rebound, but he can't match up with the opposing team's front court. He's not strong enough, but he is the only big on our team who even tries to board. Yakwe can't rebound at a big east level anymore. For some reason, he's lost his motor.

Owens averages 5.2 as a starting big man. Yakwe averages 3.5. That's pathetic.

Owens averages 5.2 as a starting big man. Yakwe averages 3.5. That's pathetic.

Owens doesn't start. 5.2 off the bench isn't pathetic. That's pretty good, no? Yakwe is terrible, I agree. His regression is the single biggest reason why we are not headed to the NIT. He should be pulling down 6-8 boards per game. He has no idea what he's doing out there. He plays like the game is brand new to him.

Trust me, I hear you guys on the rebounding woes and lack of interior defense in the front court, aside from shot blocking.  I do think that Owens and Yawke can improve in the offseason, get stronger, mature, and be better in those areas next season.  I also think that Clark can help on the boards.  And perhaps Ahmed with another year under his belt.    And Williams with an injury free offseason.  There are countless examples of guys who were written off, came back, and were an asset in the areas that folks on this board and others didn't think was possible.

Yes, I think we need another big for sure.  As nice as the guard/wing situation has progressed to date, the 4/5 slot has been a different story between Williams injuries, Sima's leaving, Yawke's regression, the Brown-fiasco, the Livingston situation, etc.  I think we'll fine someone to help in that area, hopefully a quality grad transfer.  I don't think we need a star there if everyone comes back.

I never meant to infer that Chris is doing a better job than Lavin.  Lavin's record speaks for itself.  He did some really good things, especially early on.  And then he left our program 10000000 worse than what Norm left him.  Mullin & Co. are now having to dig out of that, and it will take time.  As long as there is progress towards sustainability on the court and in the recruiting game, I will gladly take that.

We don't need a big man to play major minutes? Who is going to do that for us? By my count, no one. I also think it we should cool it with all of the examples of how Mullin is doing a better job than Lavin. At least until he put together a winning season.

Mullin was a better player than Lavin. He's got em there.

Going after mid major talent is fine, when you're not at the bottom of the pile

I never meant to infer that Chris is doing a better job than Lavin.  Lavin's record speaks for itself.  He did some really good things, especially early on.  And then he left our program 10000000 worse than what Norm left him.  Mullin & Co. are now having to dig out of that, and it will take time.  As long as there is progress towards sustainability on the court and in the recruiting game, I will gladly take that.

Quote from: Poison on February 09, 2017, 04:15:31 PM

We don't need a big man to play major minutes? Who is going to do that for us? By my count, no one. I also think it we should cool it with all of the examples of how Mullin is doing a better job than Lavin. At least until he put together a winning season.

Mullin was a better player than Lavin. He's got em there.

That about says it all about the recent history of the program-"Lavin's record speaks for itself". What, one NIT win in five seasons. Not exactly speaking about john Wooden here, are we?

I never meant to infer that Chris is doing a better job than Lavin.  Lavin's record speaks for itself.  He did some really good things, especially early on.  And then he left our program 10000000 worse than what Norm left him.  Mullin & Co. are now having to dig out of that, and it will take time.  As long as there is progress towards sustainability on the court and in the recruiting game, I will gladly take that.

Quote from: Poison on February 09, 2017, 04:15:31 PM

We don't need a big man to play major minutes? Who is going to do that for us? By my count, no one. I also think it we should cool it with all of the examples of how Mullin is doing a better job than Lavin. At least until he put together a winning season.

Mullin was a better player than Lavin. He's got em there.

Lavin didn't leave our program in bad shape. He was let go, and it fell apart. Mullin inherited a program with no talent, but that's not the same thing. Lavin would have had a promising freshman point guard in Brandon Sampson, possibly Chris Obekpa and yes, that's not enough to win a lot of games, but players took off after he was fired.

Lavin didn't come up empty in recruiting until the season right before they fired him. As far as recruiting goes, Lavin and his staff brought in quality classes for longer than Mullin has. It was a risk to hire Mullin, and it's possible that it will pay off one day, but right now, we have the weakest frontcourt in the BE and there are zero signs that will change.

Going after mid major talent is fine, when you're not at the bottom of the pile

The problem isn't mid major or high major as much as it's being able to find, evaluate, sign and develop talent. 5 players returned from last year's team. Mussini, Ellison, Yakwe, Sima, Williams and Alibegovic. 3 out of the 5 have either regressed or pussed out.

Trust me, I hear you guys on the rebounding woes and lack of interior defense in the front court, aside from shot blocking.  I do think that Owens and Yawke can improve in the offseason, get stronger, mature, and be better in those areas next season.  I also think that Clark can help on the boards.  And perhaps Ahmed with another year under his belt.    And Williams with an injury free offseason.  There are countless examples of guys who were written off, came back, and were an asset in the areas that folks on this board and others didn't think was possible.

Yes, I think we need another big for sure.  As nice as the guard/wing situation has progressed to date, the 4/5 slot has been a different story between Williams injuries, Sima's leaving, Yawke's regression, the Brown-fiasco, the Livingston situation, etc.  I think we'll fine someone to help in that area, hopefully a quality grad transfer.  I don't think we need a star there if everyone comes back.

Yakwe needs to get stronger, but he needs to learn the game. That's his problem. He has no idea what he's doing out there.

Reminds me of Jae Crowder a little

Sampson is not exactly lighting it up at LSU and looked lost on that team last year as a freshman....Obkepa was no shoe in to be around all year or even on the team lets just say he was....then ali, jones and felix...The VCU kid would have been ineligible like Lovett was....am i missing anyone who we had or involved with?.....That team would have been 4-8 win team last year with not a great future at all.

I was going to respond to Poison's point but you beat me to it, and it has been beaten to death.  Lavin left this program a disaster.  Our roster was how it was last year because he stopped recruiting his last few years, period, and put our fate in the hands of two problem children of highest regard, with no backup plans in sight.  Anyone who loves St. John's can be appreciative of what Lav did his first few years and disgusted with what he did towards the latter part of his tenure.

Quote from: prjohnnies on February 09, 2017, 05:05:25 PM

I never meant to infer that Chris is doing a better job than Lavin.  Lavin's record speaks for itself.  He did some really good things, especially early on.  And then he left our program 10000000 worse than what Norm left him.  Mullin & Co. are now having to dig out of that, and it will take time.  As long as there is progress towards sustainability on the court and in the recruiting game, I will gladly take that.

Quote from: Poison on February 09, 2017, 04:15:31 PM

We don't need a big man to play major minutes? Who is going to do that for us? By my count, no one. I also think it we should cool it with all of the examples of how Mullin is doing a better job than Lavin. At least until he put together a winning season.

Mullin was a better player than Lavin. He's got em there.

Lavin didn't leave our program in bad shape. He was let go, and it fell apart. Mullin inherited a program with no talent, but that's not the same thing. Lavin would have had a promising freshman point guard in Brandon Sampson, possibly Chris Obekpa and yes, that's not enough to win a lot of games, but players took off after he was fired.

Lavin didn't come up empty in recruiting until the season right before they fired him. As far as recruiting goes, Lavin and his staff brought in quality classes for longer than Mullin has. It was a risk to hire Mullin, and it's possible that it will pay off one day, but right now, we have the weakest frontcourt in the BE and there are zero signs that will change.

Brandon Sampson is not a point guard and he's an average player on the 2nd worst team in the SEC in his sophomore season.

Lavin did recruit some talent but he got lazy and we never had enough depth. The players from his first two recruiting classes made one NCAA Tournament as a 9 seed and never had a chance to win that game. Had Lavin stayed another year we may not have gone 1-17 last year but we wouldn't have been good at all either. It's not crazy to think he could have spent 10 years here and not won one tournament game as he is a perpetual underachiever.

I'm far from thrilled with this current staff so far mainly due to lack of player development, but they are bringing in talent and building a foundation to what could be a consistent program. Yes the frontcourt is very weak right now but the staff did have a bite on that kid Livingston until the higher ups shot them down. Livingston would have been a major piece of this team and would have been a big difference. Can't blame the staff for not getting the green light to bring him in.

Let's see how next year's roster shakes out before making judgments. There is still time for Matt to pull a rabbit out of his hat and land a capable JuCo or grad transfer

One regressed.  One transferred.  One was never a Big East player to begin with.  And the other 3 are all better now than what they showed last year.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on February 09, 2017, 05:37:04 PM

Going after mid major talent is fine, when you're not at the bottom of the pile

The problem isn't mid major or high major as much as it's being able to find, evaluate, sign and develop talent. 5 players returned from last year's team. Mussini, Ellison, Yakwe, Sima, Williams and Alibegovic. 3 out of the 5 have either regressed or pussed out.

I was going to respond to Poison's point but you beat me to it, and it has been beaten to death.  Lavin left this program a disaster.  Our roster was how it was last year because he stopped recruiting his last few years, period, and put our fate in the hands of two problem children of highest regard, with no backup plans in sight.  Anyone who loves St. John's can be appreciative of what Lav did his first few years and disgusted with what he did towards the latter part of his tenure.

I think disgusted is pretty unfair. If he left, then we can say he left us with nothing, but STJ fired him.

Lavin didn't recruit anyone with a criminal record. The way he's talked about here, you'd think he was recruiting straight from prison. His last year here, we made the NCAA tournament, and he was fired anyway. I'm not saying they shouldn't have moved on. In addition to slowing down on the recruiting front, Lavin was not a very good in-game coach. But shit, he was better than what we have now.

One regressed.  One transferred.  One was never a Big East player to begin with.  And the other 3 are all better now than what they showed last year.

Quote from: Poison on February 09, 2017, 06:32:24 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on February 09, 2017, 05:37:04 PM

Going after mid major talent is fine, when you're not at the bottom of the pile

The problem isn't mid major or high major as much as it's being able to find, evaluate, sign and develop talent. 5 players returned from last year's team. Mussini, Ellison, Yakwe, Sima, Williams and Alibegovic. 3 out of the 5 have either regressed or pussed out.

What 3 are better now? Williams is better. Ellison is better. That's it. Mussini is awful. Sima was awful. Yakwe is awful.

Some of you guys have distorted sense of expectations. Owens is 17th in conference in rebounding and 8th in offensive rebounds and has been a great presence defensively. Outside of Patton, Delgado, and maybe Govan what center are you taking over him?