Matt A

Quote from: Marillac on May 04, 2017, 12:44:04 PM

Quote from: rhythm j on May 04, 2017, 11:47:59 AM

The team that went to the elite eight had tyrone grant at 6'7" Patrolling  the middle. This team next year is going to be good. They just have to make a commitment to playing defense.

They also had two first round NBA forwards, a first round PG, and Bootsy.  Artest was 6'7 260 and probably the strongest kid in the country. Postell was the best offensive rebounder from the three I've ever seen at St. John's by a mile as well.

You can win with a small team if you have nasty forwards or if you dominate the on both sides of the perimeter game. We don't have a dominant defense and I would not classify Ahmed as that type of forward. Perhaps Simon can be that guy in time, but I doubt it's next season.

Jarvis wasn't  a good X's and O's coach, but he did make sure his bigs were strong and bulky, that four guys hit the glass hard on both ends, played tough defense, and could all catch the ball. That really goes a long way.

That might have very well been best ST john's team I have seen. At least close second to Final Four team. Comparing any ST John's team to them is silly let alone team coming off 13 win season.

+1 

Until, I see the current group put any effort into playing defense, then I'll remain on the fence to what they can achieve.  I know they have the overall talent to do some good things, but we'll see what kind of effort they bring when the ball isn't in their hands.

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 04, 2017, 11:59:47 AM

Quote from: rhythm j on May 04, 2017, 11:47:59 AM

The team that went to the elite eight had tyrone grant at 6'7" Patrolling  the middle. This team next year is going to be good. They just have to make a commitment to playing defense.

They also had tough guys on that team. Grant, Jessie, Artest, Postell, Glover were all very physical and did the dirty work on the boards. This team isn't nearly as physically tough. Owens and Clark will need help.

Glover didn't play with Grant or Artest, but I get you drift.  You also forgot to add Thornton into that equation. 

For the most part, that particular team was not only talented, but they were also blue-collar players.  They did all the "little things" that mattered.  They also played smartly.

Yup, thanks for clarifying and Bootsy was another gritty guy. The players and names all start meshing together as the years go by lol

Quote from: mjdinkins on May 04, 2017, 12:16:02 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 04, 2017, 11:59:47 AM

Quote from: rhythm j on May 04, 2017, 11:47:59 AM

The team that went to the elite eight had tyrone grant at 6'7" Patrolling  the middle. This team next year is going to be good. They just have to make a commitment to playing defense.

They also had tough guys on that team. Grant, Jessie, Artest, Postell, Glover were all very physical and did the dirty work on the boards. This team isn't nearly as physically tough. Owens and Clark will need help.

Glover didn't play with Grant or Artest, but I get you drift.  You also forgot to add Thornton into that equation. 

For the most part, that particular team was not only talented, but they were also blue-collar players.  They did all the "little things" that mattered.  They also played smartly.

Yup, thanks for clarifying and Bootsy was another gritty guy. The players and names all start meshing together as the years go by lol

Also had Albert Richardson who was not good but was 6'9" and was another body in the paint on defense.

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 04, 2017, 01:44:47 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on May 04, 2017, 12:16:02 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 04, 2017, 11:59:47 AM

Quote from: rhythm j on May 04, 2017, 11:47:59 AM

The team that went to the elite eight had tyrone grant at 6'7" Patrolling  the middle. This team next year is going to be good. They just have to make a commitment to playing defense.

They also had tough guys on that team. Grant, Jessie, Artest, Postell, Glover were all very physical and did the dirty work on the boards. This team isn't nearly as physically tough. Owens and Clark will need help.

Glover didn't play with Grant or Artest, but I get you drift.  You also forgot to add Thornton into that equation. 

For the most part, that particular team was not only talented, but they were also blue-collar players.  They did all the "little things" that mattered.  They also played smartly.

Yup, thanks for clarifying and Bootsy was another gritty guy. The players and names all start meshing together as the years go by lol

Also had Albert Richardson who was not good but was 6'9" and was another body in the paint on defense.

Also Donald Emanuel at 6'8 who showed nice improvement over his career.

Quote from: Foad on May 04, 2017, 09:38:24 AM

Quote from: redstorm212 on May 04, 2017, 08:30:08 AM

Quote from: Marillac on May 04, 2017, 02:10:24 AM

Quote from: redstorm212 on May 03, 2017, 09:29:14 PM

Quote from: Foad on May 03, 2017, 05:41:06 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on May 03, 2017, 04:51:17 PM

As much as it sucks to be recruiting this poorly, it's nice that it's no longer taboo to question Matt A as a recruiter.

Ponds Simon Lovett Clark Ahmed Yakwe Owens =  "recruiting this poorly." Shut up.

You're right we're in great shape. NCAA's here we come. Who did we land out of our frontcourt targets in 2017?

I am not happy with the front court situation, but we have a really impressive core. It's probably the best in almost 20 years for us. It'd be a shame to waste it with such a glaring hole down low. We don't even need a star...just someone that can hold his ground.

I like our core too. My only point was it was a complete failure on the part of our lead recruiter to be unable to land even a 2 star rebounding power forward to help our core group. If you want to keep patting him on the back for assisting in bringing in our core group, fine. But as I said, recruiting a rebounding PF to play with Ponds and Lovett in a high major conference for Chris Mullin should have been a very easy thing to do. Especially for a recruiter who is apparently not "recruiting this poorly"

How many two star recruits would he have to bring in to make you happy. Just the one or do you want a bunch.

I'd settle for a frontcourt player who averages more than three and a half rebounds. I guess my expectations are sky high

If you think that the talent Mullin has assembled in 25 months comprises "recruiting this poorly" your expectations are insane.

Quote from: rhythm j on May 04, 2017, 11:47:59 AM

The team that went to the elite eight had tyrone grant at 6'7" Patrolling  the middle. This team next year is going to be good. They just have to make a commitment to playing defense.

They also had two first round NBA forwards, a first round PG, and Bootsy.  Artest was 6'7 260 and probably the strongest kid in the country. Postell was the best offensive rebounder from the three I've ever seen at St. John's by a mile as well.

You can win with a small team if you have nasty forwards or if you dominate the on both sides of the perimeter game. We don't have a dominant defense and I would not classify Ahmed as that type of forward. Perhaps Simon can be that guy in time, but I doubt it's next season.

Jarvis wasn't  a good X's and O's coach, but he did make sure his bigs were strong and bulky, that four guys hit the glass hard on both ends, played tough defense, and could all catch the ball. That really goes a long way.

Is this really a small team? The guards are small but Simon is 6'5" and and Clark, Yakwe, Owens, Ahmed are 6'7" or better. (And I didn't even mention the great Amar Alibegotwitch.) They're certainly not bulky, but it's not like they're midgets.

I get the need for another big body, which is why I'd have been happy with the golem who went to South Florida. What I don't get is the idea that the team's fortunes rest on the shoulders of some nameless two star ninth man forward. And I'm not even being my usual prickly contrarian congraulations norm self. I really don't get it.

Ponds / Lovett / Simon
Ahmed / Clark
Yawke / Owens

Mussini / Alibeowitch

That's nine players. If the returnees improve reasonably and the new guys don't stink and they play defense they should be an NIT team or better. If those things don't happen no eighth man is going to put them over the top. What might put them over the top is a big man better than Owens slash Yakwe but even if there's one of those around evidently no one's interested.

Quote from: Marillac on May 04, 2017, 12:44:04 PM

Quote from: rhythm j on May 04, 2017, 11:47:59 AM

The team that went to the elite eight had tyrone grant at 6'7" Patrolling  the middle. This team next year is going to be good. They just have to make a commitment to playing defense.

They also had two first round NBA forwards, a first round PG, and Bootsy.  Artest was 6'7 260 and probably the strongest kid in the country. Postell was the best offensive rebounder from the three I've ever seen at St. John's by a mile as well.

You can win with a small team if you have nasty forwards or if you dominate the on both sides of the perimeter game. We don't have a dominant defense and I would not classify Ahmed as that type of forward. Perhaps Simon can be that guy in time, but I doubt it's next season.

Jarvis wasn't  a good X's and O's coach, but he did make sure his bigs were strong and bulky, that four guys hit the glass hard on both ends, played tough defense, and could all catch the ball. That really goes a long way.

Is this really a small team? The guards are small but Simon is 6'5" and and Clark, Yakwe, Owens, Ahmed are 6'7" or better. (And I didn't even mention the great Amar Alibegotwitch.) They're certainly not bulky, but it's not like they're midgets.

I get the need for another big body, which is why I'd have been happy with the golem who went to South Florida. What I don't get is the idea that the team's fortunes rest on the shoulders of some nameless two star ninth man forward. And I'm not even being my usual prickly contrarian congraulations norm self. I really don't get it.

Ponds / Lovett / Simon
Ahmed / Clark
Yawke / Owens

Mussini / Alibeowitch

That's nine players. If the returnees improve reasonably and the new guys don't stink and they play defense they should be an NIT team or better. If those things don't happen no eighth man is going to put them over the top. What might put them over the top is a big man better than Owens slash Yakwe but even if there's one of those around evidently no one's interested.

If he starts Owens and Clark together than they have decent size. Problem is Owens already has 2 fouls and Mullin seems inclined to bring him off the bench.
I bet he starts Yakwe, Clark, Ahmed, Ponds and Lovett which is a small team

If he starts Owens and Clark together than they have decent size. Problem is Owens already has 2 fouls and Mullin seems inclined to bring him off the bench. I bet he starts Yakwe, Clark, Ahmed, Ponds and Lovett which is a small team

I think he might start the returnees - Owens/Yakwe/Ahmed/ Lovett/Ponds - unless Clark is really good and he starts over KY.

The thing is that this is actually a pretty versatile core group. They can go big - Owens / Yakwe / Ahmed/ Simon - or they could go small - Ponds / Lovett / Simon / Clark / Yakwe. There are a couple of players who can not start and bring energy off the bench: Ahmed, Owens and the new guys. They could play four guards a la Villanova with Lovett, Ponds, and Missini on the wing and Simon at the point and Owens in the middle. There's really a lot of there there, which again is why I don't understand the angst. I mean I understand it - a grad transfer like the guy from LIU would have been ideal - but I don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Quote from: we are sju on May 04, 2017, 04:06:03 PM

If he starts Owens and Clark together than they have decent size. Problem is Owens already has 2 fouls and Mullin seems inclined to bring him off the bench. I bet he starts Yakwe, Clark, Ahmed, Ponds and Lovett which is a small team

I think he might start the returnees - Owens/Yakwe/Ahmed/ Lovett/Ponds - unless Clark is really good and he starts over KY.

The thing is that this is actually a pretty versatile core group. They can go big - Owens / Yakwe / Ahmed/ Simon - or they could go small - Ponds / Lovett / Simon / Clark / Yakwe. There are a couple of players who can not start and bring energy off the bench: Ahmed, Owens and the new guys. They could play four guards a la Villanova with Lovett, Ponds, and Missini on the wing and Simon at the point and Owens in the middle. There's really a lot of there there, which again is why I don't understand the angst. I mean I understand it - a grad transfer like the guy from LIU would have been ideal - but I don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I would be surprised if Clark doesn't start. Only 6 months to wait and see....

Quote from: we are sju on May 04, 2017, 04:06:03 PM

If he starts Owens and Clark together than they have decent size. Problem is Owens already has 2 fouls and Mullin seems inclined to bring him off the bench. I bet he starts Yakwe, Clark, Ahmed, Ponds and Lovett which is a small team

I think he might start the returnees - Owens/Yakwe/Ahmed/ Lovett/Ponds - unless Clark is really good and he starts over KY.

The thing is that this is actually a pretty versatile core group. They can go big - Owens / Yakwe / Ahmed/ Simon - or they could go small - Ponds / Lovett / Simon / Clark / Yakwe. There are a couple of players who can not start and bring energy off the bench: Ahmed, Owens and the new guys. They could play four guards a la Villanova with Lovett, Ponds, and Missini on the wing and Simon at the point and Owens in the middle. There's really a lot of there there, which again is why I don't understand the angst. I mean I understand it - a grad transfer like the guy from LIU would have been ideal - but I don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I like Owens but we do not have one guy that can get us an easy basket down low.

Owens Owens Owens

Kid is the key to our season.  If he can stay out of
foul trouble for the majority of games, we'll be good enough to be a bubble team. 

I honestly believe it's that simple of an equation.  We have a 6'11 kid who is relatively talented.   Our best hope is for said player to develop some more, and stay out of trouble.  In my opinion this is far more likely to happen than some miracle transfer or unheralded freshmen recruit is to come in and play major minutes supporting our frontline.

Abs is a guest on this week's Zags and Josh Newman's podcast linked below-

http://vsporto.com/episode/21440/the-4-quarters-podcast-early-entry-players-at-nba-draft-combine-analysis-and-national-recruiting-update/

Someone get word to Zags to do a better job on sound adjustments. One guy sounds like he is speaking from the bottom of a well while the other guy sounds like he is shouting from Mt. Olympus.

Quote from: Foad on May 04, 2017, 04:31:51 PM

Quote from: we are sju on May 04, 2017, 04:06:03 PM

If he starts Owens and Clark together than they have decent size. Problem is Owens already has 2 fouls and Mullin seems inclined to bring him off the bench. I bet he starts Yakwe, Clark, Ahmed, Ponds and Lovett which is a small team

I think he might start the returnees - Owens/Yakwe/Ahmed/ Lovett/Ponds - unless Clark is really good and he starts over KY.

The thing is that this is actually a pretty versatile core group. They can go big - Owens / Yakwe / Ahmed/ Simon - or they could go small - Ponds / Lovett / Simon / Clark / Yakwe. There are a couple of players who can not start and bring energy off the bench: Ahmed, Owens and the new guys. They could play four guards a la Villanova with Lovett, Ponds, and Missini on the wing and Simon at the point and Owens in the middle. There's really a lot of there there, which again is why I don't understand the angst. I mean I understand it - a grad transfer like the guy from LIU would have been ideal - but I don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I like Owens but we do not have one guy that can get us an easy basket down low.

Hopefully Clark will be able to score down low. But I agree , the inability to score down low enabled opposing teams to put more  pressure on our guards. Let's hope Yakwe and Owens show mprovment in that regard. One would expect it. But looking at Sima and Yakwes lack of development from freshman to sophomore years worries me.

I'm all in and predicting an Ncaa tournament bid for next season. 

And Matt A did bring us LP, right?  Criticism of him thus far should be muted at most.

This has nothing to do with Matt A but I randomly stumbled upon the ESPN top 100 list from 2011 and holy shit I didn't realize how good a class we had that season.


Dom Pointer (#25)
Mo Harkless (#39)
Harrison (#64)
Amir Garrett (#99)
and we also ended up with the #51 overall player Jamal Branch.

That's 5 top 100 kids and I know only 3 ended up playing all 4 years and I know Lavin's health issues threw a wrench in everything but how did that staff not win more with that tremendous start.

how did that staff not win more

The amazing thing is how easy they made not winning look.

This has nothing to do with Matt A but I randomly stumbled upon the ESPN top 100 list from 2011 and holy shit I didn't realize how good a class we had that season.


Dom Pointer (#25)
Mo Harkless (#39)
Harrison (#64)
Amir Garrett (#99)
and we also ended up with the #51 overall player Jamal Branch.

That's 5 top 100 kids and I know only 3 ended up playing all 4 years and I know Lavin's health issues threw a wrench in everything but how did that staff not win more with that tremendous start.

Numbers doesn't quite tell the story, as you somewhat mentioned later in your post.  Harkless played for only one season (he never played with Branch).  Garrett only played for a season and a half before leaving to play baseball.

They was really no roster continuity 'til that class junior or senior season.  No excuses, but you can look at that class as the beginning of the end, once things didn't particularly go as initially planned.

I know I chimed in on this one, but I'd prefer we stay on topic.

The 13/14 team goes down as one of my top 2 or 3 biggest disappointments as a fan. How that team didn't make the tourney and even win games is mind boggling.

Quote from: KJ_Django on May 13, 2017, 02:19:41 AM

how did that staff not win more

The amazing thing is how easy they made not winning look.

What's amazing is how sure some people are that we are better now, despite a 14 win season that included losses to teams that I've never heard of + 4 transfers & zero recruits for 17-18. Previous staff had problems. New staff has problems, too.

The difference is that the new staff will solve their problems.