Game 30: @ Creighton

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

I am with  you.  Had the same expectations.  It's the coaching.  They are learning on the job just as much as their frosh and reshirt frosh.  Hopefully the growth process kicks in next year or else we are just in for a repeat of Lavin's output in years 2 thru 5

Can we leave Ellison in Omaha hoping he'll transfer to nearby Nebraska? Three horrible fouls in the bonus. This kid is just an idiot.

I think this is the problem is that dudes blow up on Ellison mistakes. Ponds made some frustration and bad fouls today too. No player is gonna play perfectly every single play.

The habitual foul after the turnover by Ellison is very frustrating. It's predictable it's almost laughable. He's still an important cog to the team's future success.

There are stretches where almost all our guys look good and others where they look horrid. That's a young team. I know it's tiring rhetoric but it's true. 

Quote from: mjdinkins on February 28, 2017, 10:18:54 PM

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

Do you think we underachieved in conference play? Would have liked to be more competitive against big boys especially on the road but I think we over performed overall in conference.

Personally, we performed in conference play, per my predictions.  My only issues in conference play was constantly getting waxed on the road before halftime.  Hopefully, that can be cleaned up with more experience.  But, still something to keep an eye on.

Quote from: mjdinkins on February 28, 2017, 10:18:54 PM

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

I am with  you.  Had the same expectations.  It's the coaching.  They are learning on the job just as much as their frosh and reshirt frosh.  Hopefully the growth process kicks in next year or else we are just in for a repeat of Lavin's output in years 2 thru 5

This feels nothing to me like lavins 2-5. I feel like we are 2-3 pieces away + a year of maturation from being a legitimate top 3 team in the BE. Sign a big man this summer and we may have all we need.

Quote from: mjdinkins on February 28, 2017, 10:18:54 PM

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

I am with  you.  Had the same expectations.  It's the coaching.  They are learning on the job just as much as their frosh and reshirt frosh.  Hopefully the growth process kicks in next year or else we are just in for a repeat of Lavin's output in years 2 thru 5

I'll tell you what Cooley will have those boys drinking haterade all week. They're gonna come out fighting.

For much of this season it seemed like we didn't bother to box out. Now I think they have no idea what boxing out even is.

Quote from: Marillac on February 28, 2017, 10:13:13 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on February 28, 2017, 10:03:36 PM

Quote from: Marillac on February 28, 2017, 10:02:29 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on February 28, 2017, 09:43:54 PM

Ellison haters can kindly stfu

Impressive that he made a bad shot, then fouled Creighton's best FT shooter in the bonus 6 feet inside half court, then let his man get a deflection over him and score an uncontested layup, to then run the ball recklessly to the rim and hand it
To Creighton for a fastbreak. He really showed us!

LOL this can't be a real response by a SJU fan about Ellison's 8 points keeping us in the game. Can it?

Also the game is clearly over. I don't fault him for trying to make something happen in the last 3 mins.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a role player put under this much scrutiny.

What game did you watch? He is one of the most frustrating players to ever wear a St. John's
jersey. He is functionally brain dead on the court.

I'm glad you were impressed with his wide open three and then a made three on a poor choice that happened to go in. It doesn't make up for his nice personic fouls in the bonus and late turnovers.

I watched a game where the rout was about to be on and one of our players scored 8 straight points to keep us in the game. If you want to downplay that, sure. But i disagree with you.

and when we're down 12 with 3 mins left I don't mind the aggressiveness honestly. Shows he actually cares.

Last 8 minutes of the game:

72-65 7:53 Ellison Foul 45 feet from the basket in bonus, Zierdan made FT, Made FT
74-65 7:35 Ellison missed layup
68-56 6:28 Ellison turnover
76-74 3:18 Ellison turnover
76-64 3:17 Ellison frustration foul in double-bonus; Foster made FT, made FT
78-64 3:17 Ellison taken out of the game
82-67 0:32 Ellison missed FT
82-68 0:32 Ellison made FT

Mussini: 9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg
Ellison :  9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg

The difference:
Mussini: 0 to's, 0 fls
Ellison: 3 to's, 3 fls

Mussini: 9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg
Ellison :  9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg

The difference difference:
Mussini: 0 to's, 0 fls
Ellison: 3 to's, 3 fls

They both stink.

Quote from: wpc77 on February 28, 2017, 10:23:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on February 28, 2017, 10:18:54 PM

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

I am with  you.  Had the same expectations.  It's the coaching.  They are learning on the job just as much as their frosh and reshirt frosh.  Hopefully the growth process kicks in next year or else we are just in for a repeat of Lavin's output in years 2 thru 5

This feels nothing to me like lavins 2-5. I feel like we are 2-3 pieces away + a year of maturation from being a legitimate top 3 team in the BE. Sign a big man this summer and we may have all we need.

Say what you will, but there was postseason tournaments throughout Lavin's duration.  But, that's in the past.

This offseason is important, as well, due to possible defections.  We need some continuity or we'll end up spinning our wheels.  I just don't see resolve in signing this player or that player when we haven't shown consistent discipline or capabilities to play defense.

Quote from: Marillac on February 28, 2017, 10:07:19 PM

Can we leave Ellison in Omaha hoping he'll transfer to nearby Nebraska? Three horrible fouls in the bonus. This kid is just an idiot.

I think this is the problem is that dudes blow up on Ellison mistakes. Ponds made some frustration and bad fouls today too. No player is gonna play perfectly every single play.

The habitual foul after the turnover by Ellison is very frustrating. It's predictable it's almost laughable. He's still an important cog to the team's future success.

There are stretches where almost all our guys look good and others where they look horrid. That's a young team. I know it's tiring rhetoric but it's true. 

Ponds is a true freshman who has to carry his entire team. His mistakes seem reasonable to me given his absurd minutes and responsibilities. He also has incredible awareness and a scary high basketball basketball IQ. Ellison is clueless. Creighton was inviting the pass to Yakwe for the hack-a-Yak late after his miss at the line and Ellison fed him deep down low. That is an awful decision late in any game.

Use of personnel and substitution patterns have been a real strength of this coaching staff.

However,  that offensively challenged lineup of Ali B, Ellison, Freud, Yakwe and Sham we went with at the end of the first half really cost us some momentum.

Mussini: 9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg
Ellison :  9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg

The difference:
Mussini: 0 to's, 0 fls
Ellison: 3 to's, 3 fls

And those three fouls were AWFUL and led to six FTs.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 28, 2017, 10:30:01 PM

Mussini: 9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg
Ellison :  9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg

The difference difference:
Mussini: 0 to's, 0 fls
Ellison: 3 to's, 3 fls

They both stink.

Who else you getting?

Use of personnel and substitution patterns have been a real strength of this coaching staff.

However,  that offensively challenged lineup of Ali B, Ellison, Freud, Yakwe and Sham we went with at the end of the first half really cost us some momentum.

Brutal stretch. I don't have the #'s but had to be in range of -8 with that lineup.

Quote from: Marillac on February 28, 2017, 10:02:29 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on February 28, 2017, 09:43:54 PM

Ellison haters can kindly stfu

Impressive that he made a bad shot, then fouled Creighton's best FT shooter in the bonus 6 feet inside half court, then let his man get a deflection over him and score an uncontested layup, to then run the ball recklessly to the rim and hand it
To Creighton for a fastbreak. He really showed us!

LOL this can't be a real response by a SJU fan about Ellison's 8 points keeping us in the game. Can it?

Also the game is clearly over. I don't fault him for trying to make something happen in the last 3 mins.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a role player put under this much scrutiny.

You don't remember Phil Greene?

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 28, 2017, 10:30:01 PM

Mussini: 9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg
Ellison :  9 pts, 5 rebs, 1 ast 3-8 fg 2-6 3fg

The difference:
Mussini: 0 to's, 0 fls
Ellison: 3 to's, 3 fls

And those three fouls were AWFUL and led to six FTs.

You sure all 3 were shooting fouls? I honestly don't remember.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 28, 2017, 10:27:16 PM

Quote from: wpc77 on February 28, 2017, 10:23:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on February 28, 2017, 10:18:54 PM

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

I am with  you.  Had the same expectations.  It's the coaching.  They are learning on the job just as much as their frosh and reshirt frosh.  Hopefully the growth process kicks in next year or else we are just in for a repeat of Lavin's output in years 2 thru 5

This feels nothing to me like lavins 2-5. I feel like we are 2-3 pieces away + a year of maturation from being a legitimate top 3 team in the BE. Sign a big man this summer and we may have all we need.

Say what you will, but there was postseason tournaments throughout Lavin's duration.  But, that's in the past.

This offseason is important, as well, due to possible defections.  We need some continuity or we'll end up spinning our wheels.  I just don't see resolve in signing this player or that player when we haven't shown consistent discipline or capabilities to play defense.

I am not discrediting lavin's success I just never felt like those team were poised to take off. Felt more like a team sputtering towards the finish line every year. For instance, Lavins 3rd year team with Dlo as a soph, talent wise I think they were pretty comparable to this years team and probably out performed them overall as well (NIT win). However I think this team has showed more promise and potential for the future and more fun to watch.

Quote from: wpc77 on February 28, 2017, 10:23:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on February 28, 2017, 10:18:54 PM

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

I am with  you.  Had the same expectations.  It's the coaching.  They are learning on the job just as much as their frosh and reshirt frosh.  Hopefully the growth process kicks in next year or else we are just in for a repeat of Lavin's output in years 2 thru 5

This feels nothing to me like lavins 2-5. I feel like we are 2-3 pieces away + a year of maturation from being a legitimate top 3 team in the BE. Sign a big man this summer and we may have all we need.

I am incredibly optimistic. Swap out Ellison for a touted defender and point-forward in Simon. Beef up with Clark. Put 25 lbs in Owens. Get the big second year out of Bash. Maybe add a grad transfer. Let Williams heal and get conditioned...boom.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 28, 2017, 10:27:16 PM

Quote from: wpc77 on February 28, 2017, 10:23:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on February 28, 2017, 10:18:54 PM

I think we'll win on Saturday to finish up at 8-10 in the conference.  I still think the team underachieved this season.  This should've been an NIT team at worse. 

Before the season started, I felt this would be a 17-win team that would finish around 6th or 7th in the conference and receive an NIT bid.  There are some things to look forward to next season, but there are things that need to be cleaned up or we'll be having a similar discussion a year from now.

I am with  you.  Had the same expectations.  It's the coaching.  They are learning on the job just as much as their frosh and reshirt frosh.  Hopefully the growth process kicks in next year or else we are just in for a repeat of Lavin's output in years 2 thru 5

This feels nothing to me like lavins 2-5. I feel like we are 2-3 pieces away + a year of maturation from being a legitimate top 3 team in the BE. Sign a big man this summer and we may have all we need.

I am incredibly optimistic. Swap out Ellison for a touted defender and point-forward in Simon. Beef up with Clark. Put 25 lbs in Owens. Get the big second year out of Bash. Maybe add a grad transfer. Let Williams heal and get conditioned...boom.

Yup and I think we have the 2018 BEPOY of the year